CDR opinion

[Lurch]

Well after Saturday it seems people want me to voice their opinion. So I figured I would take a little poll and find out what everyone thinks. You can vote and leave a comment or just vote and be anonymous.

First my comments. Everyone knows how I felt before and my opinion has not changed with the exception that the track is rideable but in no way should we race there without most of the track being resurfaced.

Lurch

[Brian38]

I think the track is a neat track, unfortunately there are issues.

For me there were not too many problems practicing but I can see where the poor condition of the track surface would quickly manifest itself at higher speeds with a full grid on the move.

I would not have a problem racing there if even some repairs were made. An effort mind you, I don't believe we could expect a full repave.

If I had to pick 3 corners to start (hopefully a small but do-able number) I would look at the exit of turn 4. It is a highside waiting to happen. Get offline and it could bite hard. Entrance to turn 5. Pothole on the inside and the outside edge. Should be able to be patched relatively easily. Exit of turn 9. Just too many holes and variables on a turn that points you to a wall at its exit.

There are a number of areas that could be addressed but I really would not like to race there without some effort at improving track safety and the surface.

Please realize that this is my opinion and everyone is welcome to theirs as well. You don't have to like it. But if we don't speak up one way or the other how will our board know what we do or do not want.

I guess I would like to see a clause in the contract so that when we get there if effort has not been made to improve safety we don't pay.

Just one persons opinion :-)

Brian

[dave.gallant]

...But if we don't speak up one way or the other how will our board know what we do or do not want...

Amen!

Keep the opinions coming, even if it is that "[you] don't care either which way".

-dave

[Lel399]

I dont know, I am very inbetween on this topic. I was feeling ok riding the track the other day, AS LONG as you stay in one line and with very very few places safe or non bumpy enough to pass on. Ill race there regardles because we are racing, but I do have some serious worries about a 30+ person grid at this track, hell even a 20-25+ grid.

[Racing616]

After riding on the track this last weekend I do have to say that this track is obviously dangerous BUT I did enjoy practicing there. A repaving would help TREMENDOUSLY. But it seems that it would be pretty expensive so i think the idea of doing just a few corners to make it safer initially is a good idea. Also, PLEASE move some of the barriers (armco/tires) That is really some scary stuff. I agree with Jason, anything over 25 riders will get kinda crazy. any of the ROR races will definitely be very interesting. :twisted:

[kimisracer]

I havent had the chance to ride CDR yet and wont be able to until the race weekend. Based upon the information provided to me by others, I doubt that I will be racing. It worries me that getting off-line means dealing with bad pavement and pot holes. After all, this is racing and that means passing (which usually happens offline). The last thing I want to see, let alone be involved in is an wreck that was pavement induced.

Once again, I will go that weekend, ride my practices and then decide. Racing is racing, but I do this for shits and giggles and I dont need any more surgeries, etc.
________
SRD-1

[Dean]

Yes, ALL tracks are dangerous. However, this is the first track I've riden where the bike in front of me is throwing chunks of pavement back at me.

With the extra use CDR is getting and the way the pavement was peeling up with the few bikes Saturday, we probably don't have anything to worry about. It could be down to the dirt by the time of our race and be Motard only. If there is pavement left, I'll be racing. I voted for the improvements, though.

[Spiderman]

I think it's awesome!!! :^o

Sorry, I couldn't find an emoticon of an ambulance carrying my sorry-ass away. :lol:

But seriously, with some repaving, and maybe some moving of barriers, I think it could be a lot safer.

[T Baggins]

My vote is somewhat skewed, because I will race there as is - but I also share the concerns of many of you as to the condition, etc... I plan to back it down a bit, in the effort to maintain my own safety.

As bad as it is now, it has been worse in the past. Any oldtimers out there will remember the Armco that began rather abruptly in the middle of the track in turn 2. You knew you were on the line for turn 3 if your left leg rubbed the Armco before you turned in. Also, there didn't used to be the extra 15' of track outside turn 3, so if you carried any speed at all you were out in the weeds. There have always been potholes, dips and all that. The place is built on a wetland. Are they really bad again now - yeah.

FWIW, in addition to the rather bumpy surface, there is a TON of great dirt area between turn 5 and 7 (North of the run-off road) which will make for awesome Supermoto racing.

The other issue, of course, is the space. We'll fill the upper and lower pits completely, even with a soft turnout. Last time we were there, our signups were down over 25%. Hopefully that will remain true for this year, 'cause frankly I don't think we'll all fit.

Everyone needs to do their best to bunk up with a buddy, and leave the gawdawful 48' trailers at home. This will be tight, tight, tight!

As long as CDR keeps trying, we should keep trying. It "could" be a great racetrack again someday - if we can help that happen, we should. If they choose not to work with us, then we should bail.

Anyone thought about the CMC/CAMA group buying CDR? Then we could ensure that the improvements get made - and it would be a helluva lot cheaper (and easier) than building the new track... especially since nobody seems to want us as neighbors.

Tbag #21

[Lel399]

If the CMC bought the place though wouldnt we have the same type of problems they currently do? (ie the protected wetlands in the middle of the track?)

[T Baggins]

Yeah, the wetland would be there forever, but at least they could patch the surface and re-work the pits/grandstands to the point that they are usable. Ours is the only club that cares about spectators - the car guys would just assume there not be any 'cause they get in the way.

Tbag

[**MV#33**]

I think the track is too damn unsafe.. plain and simple. Also think the board should address this and let the members know what our approach is if we get to the track in June and nothings been done. Also I dont think patching a few small areas do anything but make it even more unsafe. Pavement and removal of unsafe barriers should be the minimum. ](*,) Will I race there? Not at race pace... but to me it seems like such a waste to spend a whole weekend (entry fee, gas, tires, etc..) tooling around because the track is unsafe. My opinion is make the changes or lose the MRA's business. But hey who am I?.. Just another member :-({|= .


Mike Vigil
mikev@benefitsblvd.com
303.888.6306

[TC124]

I have to agree with mikey here. I love the track layout its self. However the wall after the dragandslide really commands my attention. No matter what others may say...I do not like running into concrete walls... no matter how soft they aren't. New asphalt, remove the cross over, remove that wall, some work on the drainage around the swamp, then maybe....
TC

=

I think the track is too damn unsafe.. plain and simple. Also think the board should address this and let the members know what our approach is if we get to the track in June and nothings been done. Also I dont think patching a few small areas do anything but make it even more unsafe. Pavement and removal of unsafe barriers should be the minimum. ](*,) Will I race there? Not at race pace... but to me it seems like such a waste to spend a whole weekend (entry fee, gas, tires, etc..) tooling around becuase the track is unsafe. My opinion is make the changes or lose the MRA's business. But hey who am I?.. Just another member :-({|= .


Mike Vigil
mikev@benefitsblvd.com
303.888.6306

[jplracing]

Here is my .02

The major problems with the CDR are the surface and barriers. Because of this I don't believe that the MRA should race at CDR, unless improvements are made. I will also say that the track has potential to be a very fun place to ride and race.

I not trying to say the place has to be perfect, however in its current state I don't believe we can have 30+ rider grids without killing someone in the process. Therefore, I will not be racing there (either will Phillip) unless some of the needed changes are made.

With that being said, I don't feel that we should put the entire burden on CDR and sit back to complain when it doesn't get done. The only thing that gets hurt is our future seasons. Since everyone seems to agree that it is not a safe place to race maybe the answer is to offer up sweat equity from the club to help get this problem handled...

Joe

[rforsythe]

With that being said, I don't feel that we should put the entire burden on CDR and sit back to complain when it doesn't get done. The only thing that gets hurt is our future seasons. Since everyone seems to agree that it is not a safe place to race maybe the answer is to offer up sweat equity from the club to help get this problem handled...

Joe

Unfortunately, sweat equity won't finance the cost of asphalt and concrete removal.

[jplracing]

Ralph,

Sorry, I wasn't trying to suggest that the MRA cover all costs. I only ment to suggest that it would be more positive to work to a solution. The sweat equity was only a stab at offering such a solution.

Joe

[NineTwoFour]

I seem to recall a discussion along the "sweat equity" lines sometime last fall... and nothing appears to have come from that. I doubt anything would "sweeten the pot" at this point... the owners have known about our issues for a long time now, and very little has been done to resolve them.

I can't make a decision yet about racing CDR. In it's current state, I think we are just asking for a tragedy running a full grid there at race pace. I'm going to have to see what happens with the repairs, and ride it prior to that round... then make my decision.

If the repairs aren't done, I won't ride there. If ANYTHING happens to cause you to take a different line you run into some very dangerous surfaces... and without the luxury of a lot of run off, you are likely to get seriously injured.

Just not worth it for us Hobby racers who are out there just to have a good time.

[twistedrider]

Will I race there? Not at race pace... but to me it seems like such a waste to spend a whole weekend (entry fee, gas, tires, etc..) tooling around because the track is unsafe.

I agree, it does seem like a waste if you're only able to push it to 90% because of safety issues. I've had this same issue with Second Creek in the past. Although, at Second Creek, my desire to race motorcycles has always won over my issues with safety at a couple of the corners there. I don't think that I can say the same thing for CDR.

[ebazyl]

First I would like to thank Dave G, for bringing these issues up and getting people to speak out about club issues.

Second, CDR is a dump and everyone knows it. To all the tracks (in AL, CO, CA, NM, NV) I have been it is by far the worst. That said a lot of track have issues: La Juanta blows out for seals and SCR has walls too.

But I think Alex has a great point, most people will race there no matter how bad of a idea it is. Currently my plans are to race there if I am in the points. :-$ If not I got a YZ 426 and Rebellion motorsports can get motord slicks preaty cheap.

[dave.gallant]

The above illustrates one of my larger concerns. The track in current form does not promote multiple lines, and if you get off the "line" (if you can call it that), things get hairy pretty quick. It is one thing to say we are going to run around at 80% and have a good time - it is an entirely different thing to put 35+ middleweight bikes out on the grid together and drop a green flag.

Sometimes the hardest thing to learn is restraint, and I am as guilty as this as anyone. Come on, admit it - we are racers. We don't always make the best decisions. A bad decision at any track can hurt us - I am just concerned that the penalty for the same bad decision is higher at this track than at other tracks we currently race.

The flip side of this coin is that without funds, Mt View probably will never improve its facilty. This is a shit business argument ("give me the money, THEN I will provide you with a decent product sometime in the future"), but with 2nd Creek going away next year, racing this track in the future is probably a reality. The question then becomes: Do we invest now as a gamble that Mt View improves the facility?

Personally, I have my own opinion on the matter, and while I would love to share it with everyone, I first suggest each and every MRA racer think long and hard about why they will or won't race there, and the potential impact on the club or themselves.

-dave

[The GECCO]

Dave puts it very well...the idea that we have to spend money there first, then get the track fixed...well, it sucks. I agree. But that's the reality of the situation. But this isn't the first time it has happened, the clubs paid "paving surcharges" for 2 years at SCR before the track was actually repaved (with additional outside loans from wealthy members) and it needed attention before the surcharges even started.

Am I taking the club to CDR because I think it's a great facility? No, I am aware of every one of its many shortcomings. I am taking us to CDR because it once was a great facility and it could be again in the future. This one event is a show of good faith, to show the owners they will have a future revenue stream and to encourage them to spend the funds necessary to bring the facility back to where it needs to be. Otherwise (I am guessing here) they will close the track and sit on the land while it appreciates.

We have to look farther into the future than just this one event. When SCR closes at the end of this season we (the motorsports community) will loose 34 weekends of track availability that has always been used to capacity. In 2004 and 2005, PPIR and Pueblo both were/are booked to capacity and LaJunta only has a few weekends open. It is VERY doubtful that the new track will be ready to race on in 2006 and there is always the possibility that it will take several years to finish (I

[rforsythe]

FWIW, we're all aware of CDR's current shortcomings. These discussions, and the free tracktime granted to the membership, have been a healthy thing. However I also support the direction Glenn is taking us. I was skeptical at first, but we (the board) have discussed it quite a bit, and obviously quite a few members have expressed their views. Glenn and the rest of us have to look past "right now" and think one or two or five years down the road, and ultimately make the best educated call that we can.

Basically I think it's a tough decision- do we forego the track now and probably guarantee we'll be screwed out of a local track next season (and possibly subsequent years), or go there knowing the risk and improve our position at having another place to go? I think for the MRA as a whole, we need to book it and make the effort, because there is a good chance of it helping us out. I think the riders need to decide for themselves if that is a weekend they want to race, and if they do, how hard it's really worth pushing. I'm rather torn on the issue because as Track Marshal, my prime directive in MRA-dom is to keep you, the riders, as safe as I possibly can. However as a member of the board of directors I also need to consider the organization's long term goals.

I believe we're all adults here (well, most of us - the ones who aren't at least have parents who race). We can decide for ourselves if the conditions warrant "going for it". It doesn't matter whether you're in a points race or not, nobody is forcing you to ride - so if you don't think the track will support the kind of riding you intend to put forth, that is your own call. Is calming it down a bit worth the cost of tires and gas? That is a purely subjective decision. Championships are not necessarily won by placing first every time. And at the end of the day, we'd all like to go home tired but safe.

Would I ride at 100% on CDR, in it's current state? No. Would I still ride there? Yes. Would I (and did I) vote to bring the club there this year, knowing that riders would need to think a bit more before they acted, in the strict interest of a long-term viable track for the MRA? Yes. Believe that it was not a decision I or any board member took lightly, or unanimously agreed on. But most of us felt this was the best thing to do.

Like Glenn said, hindsight will be 20/20. I hope we look back and say "we took a risk and did it right", and I think we'll be able to.

[Lurch]

I don't want to start another arguement like before but I have to add a few thoughts here.

1. Yes SCR is going away and we will need another track. But CDR is owned by Larry Miller who by the looks of things could write each and everyone of us a check to pay for our seasons. I'm a llittle puzzled why he hasn't made improvements to the track. It couldn't be that he is building a 4+ mile track 30 miles from his house could it?

2. So where do we put all the 34 race weekends that run at SCR. Well in 2004 La Junta only had 5 or 6 dates. If they have more this year then is everyone adding more dates to there schedule?

3. I agree with Dave G. that caution at CDR is a must but light the green light and I will guarantee that 25 out of the 35 gridded will forget that and race.

Here is my problem. So you back it down to 80%. Well if you are in the front of the grid normally this will now put you midpack. So all of a sudden a midpacker looks up and sees a front runner and things holy crap I'm about ready to pass a top 5 rider. So they make a not so safe pass and the top 5 rider gets taken out. So now you can throw out the ride at 80% BS...

4. Right now the poll shows a 2-1 margin of people who will not race there without improvements. So if only 40-50 riders show up will the MRA lose money by going to CDR?

5. If we go there just to show good faith I hope someone doesn't end up sacrificing there health just so the MRA has another track to race at.

One more thought about CDR. I think we have shown pretty good faith to them already. We have had schools at that track for the last 2-3 years maybe longer and they haven't done anything except paint and mow.

Lurch

[Dean]

When SCR closes at the end of this season we (the motorsports community) will loose 34 weekends of track availability that has always been used to capacity.

Isn't that kind of the point? CDR knows that SCR is going to close FOR SURE at the end of this year. That fact alone, in my eyes, guarantees CDR the business. Why don't they step up NOW? It appears to me that CDR has the business just by the fact that SCR is closing and a TON of people need a place to race. Just another opinion and hindsight will definitely tell the story...

[Brian38]

Personally, my concerns remain the same.

A) The track is not safe enough for racing.

B) No effort is being made to repair the issues.

C) The cost for lack of spectators and insurance req.

D) No pit space.

I would just like to see some effort, no wait, any effort at repairing the track surface or addressing barriers.

I still believe that a "performance" clause in the contract would at least make it look like they are trying to take care of our concerns. That way if they don't even try at least we can walk at no cost to the club except maybe a lost date. If we lose the track because they do not want to improve it, then so be it! It will only get worse and will not magically improve over the next year. :cry:

I can deal with the spectator issue and even overcrowded pits but cannot for the life of me deal with an apparent lack of concern over the safety of the clubs members.

One final note is that after speaking to many of the older members I understand that CDR was the MRA's "Home Track" in years past. The main reason that changed was that 2nd Creek repaved the track and made it a better product. Why can't the tables be turned and CDR make improvements to be a better product for the clubs it serves? ( I know back to the build it they will come mantra )

Feel free to flame away!

Brian