Which Bike to set up as a Race Bike?

[pilotbarr]

Seems like it's between the following choices:
1. Kawasaki 250. Make a slow bike go fast. Light bike, self-destructs less when crashed. Goes the least fast (still pretty fast). Can buy already race prepped (guess that's true of most of them). How many different races will I be able to run in on a typical weekend? (not that i'm prepared to run ANY at this point).
2. Suzuki SV-650. Has come highly recomended. Goes faster than the 250. Not sure that is really a good thing, but its an exciting thing. "Easy" to learn on? Its a V-twin and dig that. Seems like lots of classes to race it in.
3. An old 600. Most bang for the buck. 600's scream and hawl!, even old ones and are probably the most technologically advanced. Get one already set up for the track. Run Formula 40 (vintage guy, vintage bike)
4. This one is a kicker. Turn my street bike, a Ducati 1098 into a track bike. Hah! But could be done I suppose. Most people "run what ya brung". I like it and can ride it. But liter class seems a bit much to start out in. (Its a blast on the street). Its a blast on track days.

There are others. Someone suggested a Ducati 1000DS Supersport. What would that be like?

Whatever I run, it's gonna be a "learning experience" that's for sure. Whatever bike I ride is gonna be more capable than I am. But, hey, I always wanted to do this, since I bought a used 125 two smoke and a Roadracing magazine and dreamed of putting road race fairings on it and going road racing. Now I finally have the time and money.

Any sage advice out there?

[spideyrdr]

First thought I would have is BUY a used race bike, don't set up your own race bike and turn a street bike into a race bike. The reason is costs. I've looked into it because apparently I have too much time on my hands, and conservative estimates to convert a Ninja 250 into a race bike range from $1000-2000 easily (unpainted bodywork alone is going to cost you a few hundred, for example).

To do a 600 or an SV650 it would cost more because you must use a steering damper in most cases, most bikes are going to require case guards that a 250 isn't going to require, etc. Plus once you get into it, then you're going to be tempted to upgrade suspension components, at least at the backend, which can cost some money.

Finally, if you set up a race bike, you've got to safety wire it. If you've never done it, it's not trivial. Not to say it's impossible, but it's something you must take care of to race with the MRA and might not be something you can or want to deal with. Putting a drill to your 1098's bolts is likely going to cause you some discomfort.

Just my opinion, but take advantage of what someone else is selling before trying to convert a street bike into a race bike. I'll let others chime in before I say anything about WHAT to race (250, 600, SV, etc.).

Cheers,
Jamie

[gsnyder828]

You'll get lots of differing opinions on this - but here are mine.

1. The prod 250 class is a good race class - good sized grids and good racing... but I'd be scared silly riding one of those at an open track day. They are AMC Pacer slow on the straights and I'd be worried about getting cornholed - an SV has a 20-30 mph closing speed on those things on the big straights. Probably double that on the big bikes. As a fellow +40 guy, I'm not a fan of that.

2. I'm a big fan of SV650s. Raced one for a couple years - they are a ton of fun and easy to learn on. Wish I'd started on one. They're also eligible for a lot of less hectic classes - F40, LWGP, STU, MVU (if old enough), etc. so you aren't in the Nov U/O grind.

3. OK choice. Most popular choice. It's how I started (MV legal 600), but now wish I'd started on an SV.

4. How do you feel about throwing the 1098 in the dumpster at the end of the weekend? I've totalled 2 bikes in my time... fortunately neither was worth 5 figures. If that thought doesn't make you flinch, then no issue - go have fun on that thing.

[Bueller999]

I raced a 250 for a year and had a blast on it. I am oldish and heavyish and it was still a great learning experience. Last year I rode an SV and had an equally good time and enjoyed the bonus of some added speed over the 250 in the lightweight classes. I am quite happy with the SV and will stay on it again sports his year. I recently picked up 20 year old CBR and have been riding it for the last couple track days and am having A great time on it. I think all of those choices would be good although a MV legal SV would probably give you the most class choices that the bike could be competitive in.

[pilotbarr]

Interestingly, the SV650 and the old 600 are the least expensive. The only race ready 250's ive found were 3.5K and up. Race ready 600's can be found easily, race ready 650's are rare but can be found. In some ways, 600's seem to be the "best" bikes out there (and the most plentiful). I like the 250's because they are slower and lighter. I'd think people rarely run into you on the straightaway, the collisions happen in the turns!

I realize that "building" a race bike would be more money than buying an existing one. Its a project thing that you have to WANT to do. Its supposed to be fun to work on the bike. And if you build it up, you can probably repair it. I have the time and workspace and tools. Not sure I have the know how. STRIPPED BOLTS! FINDING PARTS! So yeah, regardless, finding a race ready bike is less expensive and less hassle (unless it needs a new engine or something else major). How often does that happen?

And yeah, the whole idea of crashing my 1098 is why I dont build THAT one up. Although I talked to a guy who has 7000 hours of track time who has NEVER crashed (now THAT is amazing!) Something to aspire to.

What do you do to prebuy a bikes engine. Dyno it before you buy it?

THANKS FOR THE FEEDBACK AND KEEP THE OPINIONS COMING!

[Peanut_EOD]

This is shot from my 250 during a Light Weight GP race. You can see how the 250 does against the SV650's. The 250's are legal and somewhat competitive (as long as I'm not on it) in 5 races over a race weekend.
http://youtu.be/qxaQdGmbk94

[gsnyder828]

I like the 250's because they are slower and lighter. I'd think people rarely run into you on the straightaway, the collisions happen in the turns!

Slower for sure. Have you looked up the weight of a Ninja 250 vs an SV? You might be surprised.

We've been lucky around here relative to straightaway collisions due to high closing speeds, but they definitely happen. Frequent? No, but... Just not something I'd be comfy with on a trackday setting with a bigger mix of folks on the track. To each their own and all.

g

[jeff healy]

mmm did somebody say Ducati!?!? I love the idea of the Ducati buuutttt... it is considerably more money to keep one running properly, parts are twice as much etc. In all honesty tho I would but a 250 and race the s*!t out of that at least while your getting started! Another thing I haven't heard mentioned yet to consider is the cost of tires over a season. Most 250 guys are getting an entire season out of just a few sets of tires where as even on the sv you will burn thru considerably more tires and a 600 even more. Good luck either way and we can't wait to see you out there soon!!

[AdamandNoahsdad]

One thing that needs to be taken into account is your riding experience. How long have you been riding? How long have you been riding fast?(I.e.NOT on a Harley) How much track experience do you have?

[DOUBLE A]

Spec 250 or '99 R6 both can be picked up for around $2K and tires are always better on the 250 as far as cost, but 600 is not to bad either. Problem is the 250 will not do 3rd gear stand up wheelies after you win down the back strait... :shock:

[shRED]

I don't know shit about racing but my new SV is fun as hell on the track!

How much do you weigh? If over 200 poundage you might consider the SV over the 250 but did I mention I don't know anything?

Why's everybody got to be picking on the harleys? Jeese! For your information my bagger has been clocked at 149 - that definitely qualifies as fast. Yeah in straight line, yeah it can't turn, ok you're right - nevermind.

J

[AdamandNoahsdad]

149mph? I didn't know you could get a truck with a trailer to go that fast.

[jeff healy]

^^^^^^ :lol: :lol:

[Louden]

If your going to convert a motorcycle, and or need to keep budget in 2013 check out this link.

http://forums.mra-racing.org/viewtopic.php?t=15479

Also there are other motorcycle to consider if your interested in something different, but you can't go wrong with a good SV650

honda cbr500
http://powersports.honda.com/2013/cbr500r.aspx?CID=LG_Motorcycle_Street+Reprise+Goog le+LG_CBR500R+Honda$CBR500
yamaha RD350
http://caberz.wordpress.com/2012/02/02/yamaha-rd-350/

Ninja 300
http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/pro...ns.aspx?id=717

ktm 390
http://www.ktm.com/naked-bike/390-du...ighlights.html

[JWinter]

My 2 cents: What are your goals? Do you want to be a long term racer and really learn the craft? If so you must start racing on a bike that has no power like a 250 or 650. These bikes require you to carry corner speed AND they are less forgiving if you make a mistake. Geoff Snyder has some really good advice in his post, he's rode everything from a liter down to a 650.

If you are just looking to have fun for a few years so you can say "hey I did it" then get yourself a 600 and good luck.

Do not let your pride talk you into a bike that is too much for you to ride on the edge.

Smaller bikes are less $$$ to race as well.

Good luck with whatever you decide and welcome to the addiction that makes cocaine seem boring. Jeff Winter #32

[pilotbarr]

What it really comes down to, is which bike would be:
1. The LEAST dangerous
2. The LEAST expensive to crash.
3. Easiest to learn to race on.

[AdamandNoahsdad]

A 450 supermoto. The 450 is big enough to be entertaining, they handle well (especially on smaller tracks) and they crash really well (read cheap).

[Bueller999]

What it really comes down to, is which bike would be:
1. The LEAST dangerous
2. The LEAST expensive to crash.
3. Easiest to learn to race on.

1)Road Racing can be dangerous no matter what bike you are on.
2)The one you don't crash, but 250's seem to survive really well
3)The 250 gets my vote on this. BTW 250's are not slow in the corners, they are slow on the straights. Corner speed is where the 250 teaches a rider to ride.

[polar x]

1. Racing is dangerous.....period

2. 250's, TZ's and other GP made bikes. anything else converted is going to cost you everytime you hit the ground more than a purpose built GP race bike.

3. 250s are your best choice since they will teach you corner speed and stratagey.


I started out on a 750, then went to a 1000. stroked the motor and bought a TZ250. Raced both for 2 seasons and let me tell you, the TZ taught me that what I thought I needed for a hole to pass in was actually a barn door compared to what I had. I put the bike into places that I had no idea it would fit, and that translated to my big bike riding as well. it taught me about carrying corner speed...I had no idea how much I was holding back in the corners. when you have no HP to catch up in between corners, you figure out how to carry the speed through the corners, after a couple of corners you negate the HP advantage because they wont catch you on the inbetween parts.
Then I sold both and went with a 600, then added a Ninja 250 for fun. again, its all about the corners....

Regardless of what you get, be prepared to walk away it, or from each race weekend knowing that you may be leaving the whole bike in the dumpster. Seriously...IN THE DUMPSTER. Dont race on credit, ask for help and follow the faster guys. Get some one on one instruction at the track or a track day. Come out and have fun. Dont take it to seriously, we all have to go to work on Monday, and that stupid plastic trophy is not worth it.

And if your name "Pilotbarr" has anything to do with your profession...you wont listen anyway :roll: ...I didn't ops:

[slo lee]

maybe minimoto fits in this discussion somewhere. I bring it up because it hadn't been mentioned above. I don't want to take anything away from the MRA race program because I agree with everything that has been said above. A lot of pro riders started out on very small bikes. Check out the mini moto community in Colorado. The Hondas, Kawasakis, Suzukis, KTMs 50s, 65s, 80s, 110s, 150s. Unlimited mods. Cheap to build and fix though pro level bikes cost beaucoup. They teach a lot of what has been discussed on this topic but on small tracks the sense of speed and lean angle is intense. The speeds are lower. Still a crash is a crash. I'm hoping there is a natural progression from small bikes to larger bikes so I'm headed back to learn more. There are guys who race mini and MRA. One convenience for mini moto is that the tracks are closer to Denver and cheaper to get on. Track time is the key to comfort and performance. Just my $.02.

[AdamandNoahsdad]

We have been with Rocky Mountain Mini Moto for 3 years now. We have been very impressed with the knowledge and the skill of the people involved. There are many current and ex MRA racers including track record holders and championship winners. From our experience, minimoto seems to have a wide group of people to race with. No matter how fast you are, there seems to be someone to race with. The racing seems to be a little more um.....fast and furious. The tracks are much tighter and you are almost always turning.
We had a tough time in our first year with the MRA and were no where near as competitive as we had hoped. For 2013 we hope to prove that the lessons learned on little bikes will translate to bigger bikes (even though we got an even smaller "big bike" for next season). We are definately in the "learning phase" of racing and RMMM has been a good step between Supermoto and the MRA.

Having said all of that, a lot of your bike choice depends on where you are at as a rider. If you are a very skilled rider, ride a big bike that is fast. Compare you lap times during a track day with the lap times listed on the MRA web site. The greater the differences in lap times the smaller the bike you should be learning with.

[davy4575]

This threads been dead for a little bit, but doing zombies can be fun. I think most of us are assuming that you dont have alot of track experience. If thats the case, I did the track school for my license my first year on my R1, luckily I was probably the slowest person on the track, and I couldnt bear the thought of wrecking it. I couldnt even, and probably still can begin to the use a fraction of the bikes capability.
I picked up an old zx6R for 500 bucks. I had to learn how to get the most out of the bike, exagerate good body position and learn the mechanics of racing rather than focus on dumping money into the bike.

I had blast on that bike, learned alot, and sold it for 1500 bucks after 2 seasons of beatings on it. (results not typical, some contents may have settled during shipping, etc...)
Cant go wrong with an old 600 or a 250 or an SV. any of those bikes give you something worth far far more than your entrance fees cover.......seat time.