Large race grids?

[T Baggins]

Any idea how many license holders we had in 2007? How many do we have today?

Rybo has that info, but it was typically as high as 300 licenses, but this year under 200. That's $15K in membership income right off the top.

Then add that we had 150-160 riders at $220 - $240 per rider entry fees so $33K - $38K in entry fees every weekend.

This year we're averaging about 120 riders x $180 per rider +/- or $22K in entry fees every weekend.

That puts a tremendous load on SuperStreet and Spectators to fill the difference...

[glenngsxr]

It costs $35k for the MRA to run at HPR? A track we are part owners of and raised money for, but only $29k for PPIR?????

It has been as high as $35K, but generally less at HPR. The diff in cost, primarily, is:

The insurance is $2k higher at HPR, and we pay a per bike fee on top of the base rent.

The insurance is $2k lower at PPIR, AND we keep the garage rental income.

Wow, I guess I am just in awe at how much it costs to run at OUR own track. The insurance I can understand maybe. Why is it so high though?

[oldtimer]

CLasses available are 600's, Bears, unlimited, 125's/250mono/400's, plus like a class with a few categories for bike made from about the 80's up to about 2005 or something?

Sounds like they run less classes than the MRA so that should drive up entries per class. And there's merit in that model... But I have to agree with Ben, we have a lot of racers who look for a niche class to excel in. If we only had 5 classes we would probably lose riders who feel like they'd never have a chance to be competitive *somewhere*. I don't know an easy answer for the dilemma of small grids.

[T Baggins]

Glenn, it costs that much to run ANYWHERE we run... more or less.

Track rental is as low as $6k for Pueblo (for now)

$11,000 for PPIR

generally about $10,500 for HPR

Insurance is either $2200 or $4200 depending on track

2 ambulances

12 - 22 corner crew paid

7 paid board members

cornerworker lunches

cornerworker hotel

Board hotel/per diem

trophies

ROR Payout

Front Gate Staff

Refunds

Credits

It adds up in a hurry! I'm happy to show you the numbers for each event if you are interested...

[Clarkie]

Oh I am not saying dump some of the classes that only have 1-2 grids of racers and have larger grids which will enable people to win more money in classes that pay more based on grid sizes, more of a question as to why they are bigger in other parts of the world and while the economy here has a lot to do with it, the economy in Aussie isn't very good, nor in Cali with the AFM

[loujr]

Would raising membership to $200 and getting one pit crew pass with membership be productive? Or would it cause membership to keep going down?

[T Baggins]

Would raising membership to $200 and getting one pit crew pass with membership be productive? Or would it cause membership to keep going down?

That's a great question. I don't know how many crew passes we sold this year, but they're a bargain at $55.

Honestly my "plan" is to raise licenses $50 AND add $10 to the first race for each rider next year. That's $120 per member, total increase for the year.

That would equal about $22 - $24K and would make a world of difference in ensuring a fully funded season for the MRA.

[glenngsxr]

Oh I am not saying dump some of the classes that only have 1-2 grids of racers and have larger grids which will enable people to win more money in classes that pay more based on grid sizes, more of a question as to why they are bigger in other parts of the world and while the economy here has a lot to do with it, the economy in Aussie isn't very good, nor in Cali with the AFM

That's an easy one Clarkie. It's about culture. The motorcycle community in the US has a very immature and isolated culture. It's huge in most other parts of the world. Just like soccer, it hasn't really caught on. It will and the MRA will be poised well when those days are here. Between that and the economy, US motorcycle racing will remain soft for awhile me thinks. Gosh, the economist in me is coming out. I need to get back to work.

[Clarkie]

I totally agree Glen, but like Jim pointed out the AFM is doing well. Not at all saying the MRA os doing anything wrong at all, it is just interesting to me

[glenngsxr]

I totally agree Glen, but like Jim pointed out the AFM is doing well. Not at all saying the MRA os doing anything wrong at all, it is just interesting to me

they can ride year round as well so motorcycles are naturally a larger part of peoples lives over there. In our geography, lesser so. Not a fair comparison, IMO.

[gsnyder828]

Population density may also have a bit of influence on grid sizes.

[dave.gallant]

Population density may also have a bit of influence on grid sizes.

While this might be true, I am not sure what sheep have to do with this.

[gsnyder828]

Population density may also have a bit of influence on grid sizes.

While this might be true, I am not sure what sheep have to do with this.

C'mon Dave - sheep attract racers. More sheep = big grids. Keep up, willya?

[hcr25]

Colorado has 5 million or so people and Cali has 35+ million. It would make sense for the AFM to have larger grids then us. I bet the same holds true for the CMRA grids in Texas.
I'm my opinion we have to many classes. We try to make a class for whatever bike someone wants to race. If we were to limit the amount of classes, racers could get more laps for the $$$. This would also eventually lead to larger grids because of fewer classes to race in.

[Clarkie]

Colorado has 5 million or so people and Cali has 35+ million. It would make sense for the AFM to have larger grids then us. I bet the same holds true for the CMRA grids in Texas.
I'm my opinion we have to many classes. We try to make a class for whatever bike someone wants to race. If we were to limit the amount of classes, racers could get more laps for the $$$. This would also eventually lead to larger grids because of fewer classes to race in.

Yeah didn't think of the population thing, but Sydney has around 4,000,000 people so maybe the number of classes do make a big difference. Contingency pays deeper on larger grids and people wouldn't have to ghost ride just so the club can fill the forms in to make sure people get paid.

[Clarkie]

Colorado has 5 million or so people and Cali has 35+ million. It would make sense for the AFM to have larger grids then us. I bet the same holds true for the CMRA grids in Texas.
I'm my opinion we have to many classes. We try to make a class for whatever bike someone wants to race. If we were to limit the amount of classes, racers could get more laps for the $$$. This would also eventually lead to larger grids because of fewer classes to race in.

Yeah didn't think of the population thing, but Sydney has around 4,000,000 people so maybe the number of classes do make a big difference.

[T Baggins]

If we were to limit the amount of classes, racers could get more laps for the $$$. This would also eventually lead to larger grids because of fewer classes to race in.

But it would also mean less revenue for the club... unless you raised the entry fees to compensate for the loss of class entries. If someone is doing 4 races now, and you nuke two - then we need to raise the entry fee for the remaining two just to stay even financially.

More laps for the money, is not the same as more money.

[T Baggins]

I've been looking at old numbers and it looks like back in 2004 we had an average of 142 riders per event (pre entered I think) compared to 130 or so (total entered) now... Maybe 2004 includes post-entries... I don't know for sure.

At any rate, that's about a 10% decline in entries. They also ran 10 rounds, versus us barely managing 7. Race Entry fees have gone up, but not horribly, since then. So people could afford to run 10 rounds back then, and now they can't. If we ran a 10 race series, I'd bet our average entries would be about 110.

What has changed the most is the cost to try to run a competitive race program, and the event costs have more than doubled!

FYI - Dirk Terrill pulled some data for us for the Board Meeting and ONLY 71 racers have made all 6 rounds to date. 11 of those are Board Members or spouses - and so they HAD to be there anyway...

So we have 60 riders who have been able to commit to a full season.

Fewer riders, spending less money on entries, when costs to put the event on have doubled... = T R O U B L E

[KFinn]

ROR Payout

Hey! I thought this was changed to only turn around the entries to the payout and not everyones money? Are you telling lies again?

[T Baggins]

ROR Payout

Hey! I thought this was changed to only turn around the entries to the payout and not everyones money? Are you telling lies again?

It is still money being paid out vs retained like we do in the other classes.

The good news (for all but the ROR guys I'm sure...) is that we've been paying out less than $2k per weekend - vs almost $6k per weekend in the past.

That would have added another $24K in LOSSES to date, and we likely would have cancelled Round #7 'cause we'd be broke!

[rforsythe]

FYI - Dirk Terrill pulled some data for us for the Board Meeting and ONLY 71 racers have made all 6 rounds to date. 11 of those are Board Members or spouses - and so they HAD to be there anyway...

So we have 60 riders who have been able to commit to a full season.

Fewer riders, spending less money on entries, when costs to put the event on have doubled... = T R O U B L E

Of the rest, how did the event counts fall out? Were they all but one or two, etc? Was one round wildly more unpopular than another? For the 60, what were the most popular classes? How about for the rest? Do those numbers include Superstreet?

Fewer riders spending less money means the event costs have to decrease or people have to ride more classes than they are. We all get that, but if you're going to dig deep into the data then let's get the full picture.

[T Baggins]

We are asking exactly those questions... it just takes time to pull it all out of the database and put it in a format that makes sense. Dirk Terrell has put a lot of effort into this, and continues to do do.

[dirkterrell]

Of the rest, how did the event counts fall out? Were they all but one or two, etc? Was one round wildly more unpopular than another? For the 60, what were the most popular classes? How about for the rest? Do those numbers include Superstreet?

Fewer riders spending less money means the event costs have to decrease or people have to ride more classes than they are. We all get that, but if you're going to dig deep into the data then let's get the full picture.

I'm working on making it easier to answer these types of questions. And having the full picture is my primary motivation for doing it.

[Nabber]

Lets not forget price of fuel in UK? 6 years ago, when I left, it was $12 gallon. Bikes, cars are twice the price there & don't start me on the price of houses!!
We had a Family tradition of going to 3 to 4 British Superbike Rounds, (Silverstone, Thruxton & Oulton Park) and one WSB round at Silverstone. Entry fee was fair, there was always a good crowd, 40 to 60 thousand and the field was international, ( Glen Richards became a Family friend! My Mum loves him!).
It was reported to me this year by Mother that entry Fees had gone up to 50 pounds at the gate, ($90) and that fans could just not afford it and attendance was down 60 to 80%. The economy there is WWAAAAAAYYY worse than here, I assure you, with the costs of bike, travel costs, entry, running costs, guys like myself could only afford race schools, (Chaz Mortimer, Cadwell Park), so track days were the only option. God Bless & thank God for the USA - as I could realize a dream and just afford to race. You guys are SOOO lucky and thank your lucky stars that you are here and not over there....... harder promotion, getting 'in there' to attract 'newbies', spectators first, racers they become later. Interviews and air time for the 'rising stars' and top 5 racers in each class, let the spectator get to know the person, rather than the # of a bike flashing past and frankly to a newcomer, I get, "they all look the same to me after a while". Give the # a personality and promote the Club in new areas, attract SPECTATORS to the races and there will be your next generation of Novices?
Nabber 'The Brit" #911