2-Fiddy 4-Hour Endurance

[d_mob]

For those of you that didn't attend the meeting last night, the topic of separating the turd-fiddys during the 4-hour endurance race was brought up.

Not "separate" into a separate race, but score/time separately so the craptastic bikes and riders would have a chance to actually get a trophy.

So, is anyone opposed to this? Would you mind having a slow(er) bike in front of you lap after lap for four hours?

If not, what are the complications that would thwart this idea? Does it require excessive additional effort to score/time? What are the costs associated with a trophy?

Speaking of a trophy, maybe we can make something funny as opposed to the typical crystal piece (I'm thinking gaudy, huge, mantlepiece w/ unicorns and half-naked dragon-slaying chick riding a 250).

Thoughts?

PS... I'm thinking do it exactly the same as the regular endurance race (e.g. either teams or individual).

PSS... If I can have creative rights over the trophy, I'll be happy to sponsor the race. :shock:

[cromer611]

hell yeah!
unicorns!? chicks?!
sounds like pure awesome!

[Bartman]

To be honest I like the idea of the 250s having their own class, but the thought of the closing speeds between them and big bikes scares the crap out of me and when you take into account fatigue of 4 hours as well I don't know. It is bad enough in a 30 min endurance with lightweight and middleweight but with everybody it scares the hell out of me.

[d_mob]

Bart, while I don't want to get cornholed by a "big" bike (or any bike for that matter), I'm not sure if that reasoning should cause us to forfeit the idea. If that was the case two-fiddys shouldn't be allowed in U and O classes.

In fact, I would imagine people battling in an AM-U sprint race would be quicker to cause an issue as getting around lappers quickly is key in a 7-lap race.

I could be wrong though -

[Munch]

Anyone have an idea of the laptimes on some of the 250s during the mock races in 2010?

[vort3xr6]

Anyone have an idea of the laptimes on some of the 250s during the mock races in 2010?

4 hours.







ba dum chhhhhhh.

[d_mob]

2:14's if I'm not mistaken -

[The GECCO]

Bart, while I don't want to get cornholed by a "big" bike (or any bike for that matter), I'm not sure if that reasoning should cause us to forfeit the idea. If that was the case two-fiddys shouldn't be allowed in U and O classes.

In fact, I would imagine people battling in an AM-U sprint race would be quicker to cause an issue as getting around lappers quickly is key in a 7-lap race.

I could be wrong though -

I dunno, I can see both sides of this argument. Let's assume the 250 is 30 seconds off the pace, they're only gonna get lapped once in a 7 lap race (probably on lap 4, at least by the leaders). Yes, it will be frantic to get around them, but it's still just once. Let's say you have a 25 bike AGTU field with one of them being a 250, assuming everyone laps the 250 that's a total of 24 passes.

In an endurance race you're going to lap that same bike every 8 minutes or so. In the course of a 4 hour race that same field would have to negotiate over 900 passes...eventually the laws of large numbers will catch up to you and someone is gonna get run over.

I'm not saying that this is a reason to exclude the 250's because I'm pretty much a "deal with it, Sally" kinda guy when it comes to racers bitching about traffic, lappers, etc. But I am saying that we can't reasonably expect that there won't be an incident.

Just my thoughts...worth exactly what you paid to hear them.

[jmaher]

Is there any reason the 250's could not have run in the event prior to this discussion? If not, them running in the event is not the issue but rather scoring them seperately.

Joe

[Desmodromico]

I know some of those who raced the 4 hour last year had lap times much slower than 2:14's, so closing speed was already an issue. Unless we are going to do a cutoff for lap times to be eligible for the race 250's could run it, so the question is do we award a separate winner...

[Bartman]

Yes there were big bikes slower than 2:14s in the 4 hour but they still had good speed down the straight for the most part and you only had to worry about the slower riders in the corners where speeds are slower anyway, most of us don't expect to come out of the kink on to the front straight and find a rolling chicane sitting there.
I was scared out of my gourd on the front straight on the 250s and that was only a half hour.

[Jon]

I don't know but I when I was younger I used to love endurance racing and have been in numerous longer ones such as eight, five, four, three two and even the epic and world renowned MRA 30 minute one.
As I've gotten older though, passing much much slower traffic has become a hassle to the point of danger, and that's just in Boulder! Then once you add a purse, contingency and a big ole gaudy trophy I personally am going to have to throw all that crap out the window and just try and run as many of them over as possible.
Truthfully though, do I think it's going to be like LA on a Friday at 5, well yes but hopefully there won't be cars trying to split lanes. I'm going to get me a big ole bag a popcorn and a good place to watch as the bikes come over a crest a blind spot. Should probably hand out some bulls-eyes too. Should be a great event!

[Throttleroller277]

Bart, while I don't want to get cornholed by a "big" bike (or any bike for that matter), I'm not sure if that reasoning should cause us to forfeit the idea. If that was the case two-fiddys shouldn't be allowed in U and O classes.

In fact, I would imagine people battling in an AM-U sprint race would be quicker to cause an issue as getting around lappers quickly is key in a 7-lap race.

I could be wrong though -

I dunno, I can see both sides of this argument. Let's assume the 250 is 30 seconds off the pace, they're only gonna get lapped once in a 7 lap race (probably on lap 4, at least by the leaders). Yes, it will be frantic to get around them, but it's still just once. Let's say you have a 25 bike AGTU field with one of them being a 250, assuming everyone laps the 250 that's a total of 24 passes.

In an endurance race you're going to lap that same bike every 8 minutes or so. In the course of a 4 hour race that same field would have to negotiate over 900 passes...eventually the laws of large numbers will catch up to you and someone is gonna get run over.

I'm not saying that this is a reason to exclude the 250's because I'm pretty much a "deal with it, Sally" kinda guy when it comes to racers bitching about traffic, lappers, etc. But I am saying that we can't reasonably expect that there won't be an incident.

Just my thoughts...worth exactly what you paid to hear them.

I was thinking pretty much in the same lines as Glenn here, on this matter...

[Throttleroller277]

I know some of those who raced the 4 hour last year had lap times much slower than 2:14's, so closing speed was already an issue. Unless we are going to do a cutoff for lap times to be eligible for the race 250's could run it, so the question is do we award a separate winner...

Where the said people with times greater than 2:14's on the track for then entire 4 hr though? In this case the 250's would be..... and upwards of 10 of them...

just throwing that out there...

[Bueller999]

After running Sat practice last year on a totally stock 250, including bias ply tires (pretty sure I was the slowest ninjette), I am not sure I want to be out there getting my paint sucked off for 30 min. up against the middle weights let alone for 4 hours. But that is just me ops:

I have been contemplating LW endurance just not sure yet. I guess I'll see how it plays out.

[d_mob]

Check out this video, which is completely counterproductive to my argument as it really shows the pace / closing speeds between the bikes...

@ 1:53 - 1:59 you can see Pedrosa (*ahem* - I mean John Kuo) getting passed between turns 1 & 2

@ 2:22 - 2:25 you can see two turd-fiddys going down the straight (Hammer and Schram I think?)

@ 3:05 - 3:07 Pedkuo shows up again (if only for a brief second) on the outside of the straight :lol:

However, the absolute money shot is 6:55 - 6:59 where you can see the approach speed on Hammer and Schram as they battle it out side-by-side on the last lap!

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheMobDe.../1/v2v2F2qhxWk

[talladega]

being a 2:15ish (generous) guy myself on the Thruxton/Aprilia125 I understand the concerns. it will be interesting to see outcome of this discussion.

i think it is fabulous that we have so much interest in the 250s. this will surely be exciting to watch/race, and will be great for spectatorship. I AM A FAN. In the end it will continue to draw more 250 and other newer/younger/slower/small displacement riders to the club as did the superstreet classes.

if the aim is to get NEW riders to club, then I think this is a waste of time to have "special" concessions continually being requested by our expert racers who now want more "massaging" in existing classes/clubs.

If the aim is simply to make a biga$$ (ninja-only spec) class, then we should think about creating special (and exclusive) arrangements to support these requests, as long as the current slower/smaller displacement riders and their bikes are not excluded or taken away from.

How many Ninjas 250's have COMMITTED TO RACE THIS YEAR (have bike and plan in progress already)?

I will also be willing to bet that while the lap time will continue to get faster throughout the season, that hammer/Schram will surely be among the fastest examples- with the other end of the speed spectrum potentially 15+ sec slower.

So let's say 15 mini moto racers and their bikes show up and request to create a new race for them as they have done for us (250 guys) in their club? Wouldn't this upset the masses?

Make a spec class if we have enough demand, and don't limit 250s to existing races. It sounds like the only interest is for special timing anyway- other than pushback from everyone else. If a 250 guy wants to run 4-hour race with his buddies, it can be arranged in many ways unofficially. Maybe add a saturday endurance race to PPIR which is far better suited for those bikes.

[Bartman]

And you were on a 600njy, imagine how fast a 1k is going and lets face it those were the 2 fastest guys out there on 250dys.

[d_mob]

Yeah, I guess we just need to wait for the ruling on whether or not the 2-fiddys are allowed in endurance.

Assuming they ARE allowed in, worst case as Tally mentioned above we could do a separate "off the books" / unofficial 250 trophy for the endurance race.

This would give me the opportunity to create my dragon-slayer, three-titted chick on a ninja 250 trophy! :lol:

[Throttleroller277]

i think it is fabulous that we have so much interest in the 250s. this will surely be exciting to watch/race, and will be great for spectatorship. I AM A FAN. In the end it will continue to draw more 250 and other newer/younger/slower/small displacement riders to the club as did the superstreet classes.

if the aim is to get NEW riders to club, then I think this is a waste of time to have "special" concessions continually being requested by our expert racers who now want more "massaging" in existing classes/clubs.

If the aim is simply to make a biga$$ (ninja-only spec) class, then we should think about creating special (and exclusive) arrangements to support these requests, as long as the current slower/smaller displacement riders and their bikes are not excluded or taken away from.

How many Ninjas 250's have COMMITTED TO RACE THIS YEAR (have bike and plan in progress already)?


So let's say 15 mini moto racers and their bikes show up and request to create a new race for them as they have done for us (250 guys) in their club? Wouldn't this upset the masses?

Make a spec class if we have enough demand, and don't limit 250s to existing races. It sounds like the only interest is for special timing anyway- other than pushback from everyone else. If a 250 guy wants to run 4-hour race with his buddies, it can be arranged in many ways unofficially. Maybe add a saturday endurance race to PPIR which is far better suited for those bikes.

I think I am missing something in your post Tally....

We did create (2) 250 only spec classes already...

If we did a separate endurance race at PPIR for the 250"s... why just at PPIR?....

[talladega]

@Jeff- i apologize my wording was not clear. by seperate classes you mean timing. However, it seems as if the arguement is being on the track with bigger/faster bikes (same race, diff times). sorry to confuse....just feeding frenzy.

Some of us have NO interest in getting on big bikes in big classes. For us, we don't mind being lapped/passed. However, we do like to go run races. I would hate to see us be 'removed", however- POWER IN NUMBERS!

@DMob- For sponsorship/trophy costs you could theoretically rent various small tracks for EXCLUSIVE ninja races all day. Jus sayin...

Gonna be fun year.

[peteyt328]

On a side note, unless some serious schedule changes are made that wknd I'm gonna guess the 4 hr will become more like a 2.5-3 hr endurance like it did last year. Not that there is anything wrong with that because I still couldn't walk for a few days after doing that solo.

Anywho, I agree with scoring 250's separately.. And last years endurance race was without any issues so I am not opposed to one race with all sized bikes.

[Throttleroller277]

Tally- I see your point now.

Pete- last year's 4 hr was reduced in time due to delays that we had throughout the day, prior to the race...

[TRK]

Does everyone still get a blue ribbon, or are we racing for anything this year?

[cromer611]

that is one awesome golf trophy!