4-Hour Endurance Race Solo vs Team Entry

[rforsythe]

The surprising number of people coming out of the woodwork to run this thing solo are almost inspiring me to join the stupidity instead of running it team-style.

Though 4 hours in a black suit at the end of July over asphalt and a 200-degree bike are kind of inspiring me to avoid heat stroke too, so we'll see how that goes...

[oldtimer]

Dave here are the answers to some of your questions. We'll get more info and answer the others later.

First, if I decide to run this 4-hour deal solo, can I run multiple bikes? If so, I'm assuming it isn't bike based, but transponder based correct? Simply put the transponder in my suit and run?

I can't think of why a solo rider can't run multiple bikes. Could be a lot of fun, how factory to have a good pit crew ready with your next ride!

Yes, this race is transponder based. Each team (up to 6 riders) will be Captained by the owner of the transponder. If a solo rider or team member crashes, that transponder MUST be recovered and moved to the next bike to continue the race.

We talked at the meeting last night about how the transponders are sensitive to distance from track surface when passing over the scoring loop. Our Transponder King Chris Dale warned against putting a transponder in your jacket breast pocket--could be too high and miss being timed. I've zipped a transponder into the under sleeve of my leathers and been scored before, but I'd be scared to crash on it.

Second, if solo I'm assuming the winner will simply be the guy (or gal) with the most laps correct? I can't imagine it will come down to the same number of laps with time coming into play.

Technically it will be the rider or team who goes the furthest distance in 4 hours. So if multiple teams/solo riders are on the same lap it will come down to who crosses the line first on the last lap of the forth hour.

Finally, there will be a trophy for solo 1st - 3rd correct? This is separate from the trophies that I'm assuming will be presented for team endurance 1st - 3rd correct?

Jeff Brown our trophy rep is currently looking at really cool big trophies for this event, I want one!!! 1st-5th for Team Endurance, 1st-3rd for Solo Endurance.

[OUTLAWD]

looks like I'm going solo, unless someone wants to play for my team :wink:

[Jakester]

No offense I am a newb here but have raced other forms for many years and I thought an endurance race was a test of man and Machine not multiple bikes they don't change care at Lemans or bikes at the Baja you finish on the machine you started on like I said I am a newb here but I have never heard of a race that you could use multiple machines

[froth]

That's just the way this ONE event is being run. I dig the iron man scenario.

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

The dont call me midnight moto for no reason! :shock:

That's for sure. You know, of course, that not you (nor anyone else) is going to hear the end of that for the rest of the season.

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

To take a little liberty from a Jon G. quote - my team's going to do the endurance "the proper way" and use a single bike with multiple riders.

That means a pit stop with refueling as quickly as possible.

Wyeth started this thread off with, "we encourage you to consider using this event for high quality practice". I would like to ask anyone using this for a practice session please keep in mind that many of us will be racing - and will be racing in and out of the pits.

I'm a little concerned that people using this for an ad-hoc practice session won't take getting on or off the track with the appropriate seriousness. Can we communicate that clearly before the event? Even with a speed limit in the hot pit - the track exit, hot pit, and entrance road are part of the racetrack.

Finally, are we really doing qualifying for a 4-hour endurance?!?! Doesn't that seem a little weird? If we are going to do that, can we ask that the "practice" guys voluntarily take the back rows?

[jmaher]

How would a team of 6 riders qualify for a 4 hr endurance race?
Joe

[racedk6]

The dont call me midnight moto for no reason! :shock:

That's for sure. You know, of course, that not you (nor anyone else) is going to hear the end of that for the rest of the season.

Ahahaha Im good for atleast one thing I cant live down a season. LMAO

[rforsythe]

Finally, are we really doing qualifying for a 4-hour endurance?!?! Doesn't that seem a little weird? If we are going to do that, can we ask that the "practice" guys voluntarily take the back rows?

+1. What would that point of that even be? Over the span of a 4 hour race, your starting position on the grid is going to be quite meaningless.

[Bartman]

No offense I am a newb here but have raced other forms for many years and I thought an endurance race was a test of man and Machine not multiple bikes they don't change care at Lemans or bikes at the Baja you finish on the machine you started on like I said I am a newb here but I have never heard of a race that you could use multiple machines

Yes a normal endurance race is a bike with a team running it, and crashes and mechanical issues are part of the game. Our problem in the past has been people saying they want to do a endurance race but when it comes time to put a team together everybody says not with my bike so the race blows.
This is a stepping stone race to get people to see how fun a full endurance race will be without someone volunteering their sprint bike. It may get to the point where we can run a real endurance series in the future.
Bartman

[froth]

I think Ralph and Jim are correct. How about drawing grid positions from a hat or the LeMans/Find your glove and boot method(we used this last time, it was a hoot). My team will be happy to volunteer for the back of the pack start position if the hot shoes have to qualify, keep the first turn carnage to a minimum.

Now to help bulk up MRA's Iron Man Class.

I will pay for ONE Iron Man's entry fee and help with pit stops(my team will be pitting in the normal area, because we are old, we are slow, and we like sandwiches). To be selected, read on. I will be out of town and incommunicado until Sunday the 25th. On Monday the 26th, I will turn my cell phone on at 6:30 a.m.. The first person to get through to me at 720 422 5932, will get the sixty bucks to enter the irom man class paid for. Caveats. I will get back into town Sunday evening, and check PMs and phone messages. PM me or call me regarding this, and you won't be in the running. I just want to help the first person after 6:30 a.m. that Monday.

Talk to you when I get back.

[Bartman]

I disagree Fred I do think qualifying is the best way to do it, while getting riders to do this race as practice is good for the club I don't think it is good for the race as it is a race. That being said it is a endurance and the Iron Butters who run it will not be at sprint pace for sure, so part of the challenge is lappers who will be seen by the teams who will have many riders and bikes who will be riding at a faster pace. I do want this to be a full grid but it will be a cluster to a certain extent and there is nothing to done about that, we will just have to do our best.
For my own part I have been thinking about doing the Iron Butt class myself just to see how long I can go before I barf.
Bartman

[rforsythe]

For my own part I have been thinking about doing the Iron Butt class myself just to see how long I can go before I barf.
Bartman

I sense a whole other trophy class appearing in this race...

[Jakester]

Thanks Bartman for the insight I can see why few people would want to sacrifice their bike on a Saturday with point paying races the next day

[froth]

No worries, Bart. We will be way back there no matter what the criteria, we're no the fastest, so the hot shoes will be moving and grooving. Either way, it's going to be a blast. I won't be riding, but at this point, personally, I thinks about seventeen and half minutes into the Iron Man, some poor corner worker would be shoveling kitty litter all over my tank and forks. No fitness, cardio or otherwise is apparent here ate this time :lol:

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

I disagree Fred I do think qualifying is the best way to do it, while getting riders to do this race as practice is good for the club I don't think it is good for the race as it is a race.

Fair enough about qualifying but I still think it's kinda silly. I don't see myself pushing an endurance prepped bike for a few hot laps so I can have a 15-30 foot advantage at the start of a 4 hour race.

Can we still be on the grid if we don't do the qualifying?

Also, to agree with Bartman, I really hope that we communicate to the "only for practice" riders or the ones doing it "just for yucks" that there are going to be people really racing. Ok?

[cactusjack]

Fair enough about qualifying but I still think it's kinda silly. I don't see myself pushing an endurance prepped bike for a few hot laps so I can have a 15-30 foot advantage at the start of a 4 hour race.

Any suggestions on prepping a bike for endurance? We are running our own bikes so each bike won't have to endure the full 6 hours, and with two or three 20-minute stints it's essentially like running a couple of sprint races, but I'd like to get my backup bike lightly endurance prepped in case it stays out there for a while.

[phildrummond]

With respect to lap times, practice riders and an overall speed differential, this will be a crazy race, with us solo guys doing slow times on hard tires and seeing how long we can make them last. I agree with the comments on the guys using it as a track day...please be respectful of those going like stink on a team at sprint pace. I'll plan to take a back seat to any team racing for a win. In doing solo, my biggest challenge will be longevity. It's hot. It's long. I'm old. I'm still racing, though.

For solo guys with pit crews - Anyone interested in pitting next to each other and sharing guys when we can? I've got 2 guys helping me that have no racing experience but will fuel, give me water, etc. Rear tire change will take a while but more hands to wire behind bolt tightening can help. Thoughts on pit help?

[oldtimer]

Also, to agree with Bartman, I really hope that we communicate to the "only for practice" riders or the ones doing it "just for yucks" that there are going to be people really racing. Ok?

Hey all! To be clear, myself and the MRA board absolutely agree that this is a "real" race. And while everyone is going to have fun, we all agree to treat the 4-Hour Endurance as seriously and respectfully as every other race on the schedule.

That being said--all around the country, including right here in the MRA, racers regularly enter endurance races as practice. After the board received feedback that some riders don't like this event, we were concerned about attendance. So we thought it would benefit the club to point out every positive angle and approach to the 2010 4-Hour Endurance Race, as some riders might not have considered them. Definitely not to make light of the race, quite the opposite we want it to be successful!

This event was conceived as some variety and fun for the members mid-season. If the membership doesn't like it we won't do it next year. If the racers enjoy it, it will be brought back in 2011. Sound good?

[phildrummond]

A brainstorm idea on points that will turn the race from practice to race real quick in 2011:

What if MRA awarded normal finishing points for teams AND solo? Anyone on a team would get the same points, the point value for their team's finish. A solo racer would simply get his/her points based on finish. BOTH teams and solo awarded points, having 1st place points for both team and solo. Example: The team that wins has 5 riders and each would get 36 points. The solo racer that wins also gets 36 points. And so on...

Since any one racer will only get one place's points, whether on a team or solo, it could work. I think having 15 points in the 2010 trial run is a good idea as we work out the bugs. For 2011, a true endurance iron butt should get more points for being out there longer.

[oldtimer]

Love all the input and suggestions and interest! Thanks for bringing up the unusual points payout, here's the back story...

Like much of this event the points payout was another compromise to encourage member participation. When the 4-Hour was proposed there was a lot of push back about being "forced" to run a 4 hour race (instead of the usual 30 minute Solo) and fight for 1st place and the accompanying 36 points. It was not going well with the membership. So the 15 participation points idea came about to get more riders to join in and see what they think after racing it. Again, if the members like the event after trying it we can do it again. If there are things the racers want changed we can do that in the future.

Thank you to everyone who is racing the Toyota Trucks 4-Hour Endurance Race. Not only a fun event for the racers, but ABATE is calling out their statewide membership to come spectate. Cornerworker Appreciation Day this weekend so bring some presents for the men and women who support our racing habit! Huge BBQ party and live band after the race on Saturday! It's going to be a rockin mid-season party!

[jmaher]

I am not sure I want to do an iron butt on this bike (the ride to Sturgis on my Road King is good enought once a year), but if anyone is looking for a slow new rider, let me know.

Joe

[OUTLAWD]

Joe, I've got a feeler out to another guy who may/may not be interested in doing the team thang. We are both new and slow, so you'd fit in just fine.

[smiley613]

I can't seem to find the raceday schedule for this upcoming weekend. It's possible that I missed it, and I'm assuming that it will be different to accommodate this 4 hr enduro? Can someone point this out for me?
Thanks.