i heard back in the day, the formula 3 class not only did le mans start but they all would put one glove in a pile and you had to dig for a glove before you bumped your bike.
i would love to see some of those shennanigans in mw ss when the money chasers came to town with that kind of start :twisted:
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THANK GOD I NEVER HAVE TO DO THAT AGAIN.Originally Posted by marty
(If we have to do it again, I am finding your glove first and tossing it over pit wall.)
dave@MotoSix DOT com | MRA #31, WERA #311
:lol: :lol: sometimes a guy could accidently grab his competitors glove, what size glove you wear dave?THANK GOD I NEVER HAVE TO DO THAT AGAIN.
(If we have to do it again, I am finding your glove first and tossing it over pit wall.)
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Just to clear up some mis-quoted info that I have seen in this thread by other members.
1. The last rider in row 1 would still be ahead of the first rider in row 2. How else would something like this be set up? No one indicated anything else. Even my cheap little drawing clearly shows that every rider in row 1 would be ahead of all riders in row 2. I thought this was obvious.
2. Will this make racing safe? No. I personally think that it will help spread out the start of the race, and help to avoid 3-wide entries into T1. Of course, crashes are still possible.
3. This will NOT give an advantage to the 4th place rider over 3rd place. An example, rider 1 starts on Pole. Rider 2 is then placed 3ft farther back from start finish then rider 1. Rider 3 is then placed 3ft farther back then rider 2. Rider 4 is then placed at the normal grid spot, being atleast equal to or greater then the gap from rider 1 to rider 2.
I dont know the exact distance that we currently grid so the 3ft used above is for example only.
What are the pro's to keeping it as is? Yes, I know it has worked for years. We have also never qualified for races, however that was recently approved. Was there a problem with gridding by points? NO. Does qualifying make ROR safer? NO. Does the fact that gridding by points in ROR make it the best way of doing things? NO. Did we need to make Endurance 5 minutes longer? Was there anything ever identified that a 30 minute endurance race wasn't working? I can go on and on. I think the idea of staying flexible and adapting to change is key with any business.
So, lets say we try this out for one race weekend and everyone hates it. Does that mean all other clubs are going to look at the MRA and think "what a bunch of clowns. They tried to make a change and look how they failed". I doubt that.
Casey D
Holy cow, I posted my agreement on the first page and then the whole thread went code red...
Anyhow I don't think it is change for the sake of change, I think it would benefit someone higher in the points by giving them some distance advantage and I agree with the 3 across into turn one being less of an issue.
If the outside is the advantageous line then why would there be an issue making this Pole? Who would want to switch back? If 4th place had the inside line on 3rd place but third got an equal start, 4th would still have to settle behind them unless they were going to be a banzai idiot which is not controllable by gridding or by anything else anyone can do unfortunately.
Will this stop T1 incidents? Of course not, but the small distance advantage would logically seem to spread the field a bit more than the current setup.
#91 Triumph 675
Thanks to: Motowheels, Woodcraft, Cogent Dynamics, Toyota, and Nikkie
USBA starts all races on a diagonal and I have raced both MRA and USBA I know I'm new but It has not made any diff come T1 the fast starters all get there at the same time my last 6 races mra I started 21st and at T1 I was 5th to 8th my last race USBA with the diagonal start I started dead last I think 28th and come T1 I was in 2nd but Im new and and dont know a lot !!!
Many of us have lined up both ways weekend after weekend year after year.
It didn't make any difference to us either, and we were not "new".
dave@MotoSix DOT com | MRA #31, WERA #311
I guess all us "new" guys (which I am one) should just be happy with everything as it is and not suggest anything different since the club doesn't need any new ideas or new members... :roll:
#91 Triumph 675
Thanks to: Motowheels, Woodcraft, Cogent Dynamics, Toyota, and Nikkie
Cry me a f*cking river. There is no "us" or "them".
It is a "we" here, and our numbers are dwindling. And, it is not because of diagonal or horizontal gridding at the start line.
:roll:
dave@MotoSix DOT com | MRA #31, WERA #311
Thanks Dave I'm with you Iv had a long day and that made me LoL! I'm with you 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Cry me a f*cking river. There is no "us" or "them".
It is a "we" here, and our numbers are dwindling. And, it is not because of diagonal or horizontal gridding at the start line.
:roll:
Your idea of "we" sounds like "you"....and perhaps it is responses like this from those who have been around a while that leads to the dwindling participation...not it is not gridding it is attitude...Cry me a f*cking river. There is no "us" or "them".
It is a "we" here, and our numbers are dwindling. And, it is not because of diagonal or horizontal gridding at the start line.
:roll:
#91 Triumph 675
Thanks to: Motowheels, Woodcraft, Cogent Dynamics, Toyota, and Nikkie
Oh and since on the subject, Erik and Casey were to of the most welcoming people I met last season, always willing to help, always with a good attitude, if more people were like them and a bit more open to others feedback we would likely have a lot more people to worry about gridding...
#91 Triumph 675
Thanks to: Motowheels, Woodcraft, Cogent Dynamics, Toyota, and Nikkie
History nor participation nor interest means very much; You are so right.Your idea of "we" sounds like "you"....and perhaps it is responses like this from those who have been around a while that leads to the dwindling participation...not it is not gridding it is attitude...Cry me a f*cking river. There is no "us" or "them".
It is a "we" here, and our numbers are dwindling. And, it is not because of diagonal or horizontal gridding at the start line.
:roll:
This is all about me. (And Ben. And Tony. And Glenn.) It must be all about "us". Not at all "them".
Silly me.
The MRA is ready and welcoming for your volunteering, your interest, and specifically your participation. May you stay be enjoyable.
dave@MotoSix DOT com | MRA #31, WERA #311
Just to add some data to this discussion (although I'm not sure that's what we need at this point #-o ) here's the StGTO grid from a video of our last race @ HPR. I drew the lines in where the current dots are.
This supports Glenn's argument. If we're not going to change the row spacing and we're still going to have 3rd (Turpin in this picture) ahead of 4th (me), I don't think staggering the grid or not will make much of a difference to anything.
I think the last time we did the LeMans start with glovies and booties was the four hour endurance. Not only was it fun (and I got off in number two starting), but it was very funny! Someone, who shall remain nameless, actually tossed gloves and boots aside looking for his gear. I'd love to see this format implemented in the three largest grids per weekend, just to see the chaos! Just imagine folks getting their junk, putting it on, then riding on the dirt(just for a bit) to get around others. Seriously, it'd be a cluster, but hilarious! And yes, it is a fun way to start. unless you're the last one getting you stuff on, while the first one comes around for lap one!
Fred SpongeButt Slowpants Roth
MRA811
I may be old, I may be slow, but..... aw rats, I'm old and slow.
Fred, you're sick. :lol: Keep up the good work.
Would this then "force" the polesitter to always take the inside position (even though he technically has choice)? At HPR and Hastings, often the polesitter would take the outside spot. In a diagonal grid row scenario, he then would be penalizing himself for taking the preferred grid spot.
I'm unconvinced that this is anything more than "change for the sake of change"... to make us "look cool like Moto GP". There is no evidence that it will create safer starts. If we were going to do anything, I'd suggest 2-3 more feet between rows... which would be more effective in spreading the field out.
Maybe this is something that needs to be addressed at the riders meeting at the first race weekend (for implementation the second race weekend). Debating it endlessly among 12 people doesn't give an accurate sampling of the membership, and there has been no new info other than strong opinions.
Tony Baker #21
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Just like the other major orgs, pole position would be set. There would be no choice to swap inside or outside. It can be argued that this would eliminate confusion on the starting grid when pole decides to swap. We have all seen a race line up, then the pole guy and 3rd place guy having to trade spots before Bob can light the light.
I would say set pole to the outside position, ie right side at HPR and left at Pueblo. So, this would give you the ideal line as well as a couple feet head start into T1. I guess we can get opinions from guys who actually sit on pole for this one as I never have 8)
Its only argued that this is safer, as I dont have any hard data. I will ask again, what shows this to be more dangerous? What says the current setup is better? Do we just leave it since it has worked, or do we experiment and see what can work better? The members will have to decide this one, and we should take note. Maybe change for round 1 and if everyone hates it for some reason, we change back? I agree endless debating wont settle things.
Casey D
I've read through this whole thread and I didn't want to say anything but for what it's worth, I agree with Casey. Instead of bickering back and forth online (b/c I think many people have made valid points advocating both sides), why not just give it a shot 1 round... if it doesn't pan out, hey at least we tried.
I think ultimately this will help the club bring excitement back as a whole (not this specific example necessarily), trying new ideas, testing a couple things out and seeing what the members think. Even if something is sort of ridiculous but the members love it and it makes the day just that much more entertaining, if it really is a "no harm, no foul" type situation then why not let it stick?
Just my 2cents... carry on.
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After many years of attempting to please "everyone" by yeilding to the outspoken wishes of a few... (and being highly unsuccessful at it, no less :cry: )
I'd much prefer to start the season "the regular way" and let the ENTIRE membership in attendance vote on it for the second round. We'll discuss it at the upcoming Board Meeting on Dec 7th and see what the rest of your elected few think...
Tony Baker #21
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Fair enough to me.
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Any safety discussion (pro or con) is specious. It would be impossible to measure a cause and effect by offsetting grid spots by at most 2 feet.
Optionally swapping inside & outside is nice. If turn 1 is far away and I'm good at trail braking, I'll want the outside (Pueblo). If turn 1 is close (and maybe a big sweeper like PPIR) I'll take the inside.
Looking at the picture, I don't think it's going to amount to a hill of beans one way or another. Someone (who'll remain nameless) suggested to me that perhaps we should be discussing how to park in the paddock instead.
spe⋅cious /ˈspiʃəs/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [spee-shuhs]
–adjective 1. apparently good or right though lacking real merit; superficially pleasing or plausible: specious arguments.
spe·cious (spē'shəs)
adj.
Having the ring of truth or plausibility but actually fallacious: a specious argument.
Kinda like "deceived by distance... good from afar, but far from good" :lol:
Tony Baker #21
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Had that happen to me at a couple of "dark" clubs where she looked great inside but in the light.... meh, not so much.
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isn't this about the time, in any thread of this sort, where clarkie would quote the longest post (only to lengthen the thread) and rattle off something that would totally offend every side of the argument?
i miss our little kiwi buddy :roll: :lol:
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