dumb question of the day for "racers"

[ryan]

if anyone is concerned for the cost of getting the bike, tires, warmers, stands, transponder, blah, blah, blah to race, Ive got a nice setup ready to go for super cheap ha ha! Includes everything necessary plus spares!

Working in the industry, Ive been surrounded by old stories of racing and bombarded with "it was the best time of my life". So this year I was financially ready to race. Got the whole package together raced a few races, had blast. Then motorcycle sales hit a brick wall and I kept racing, despite the declining bank account. Now bank account is gone and I am forced to get a second job, sell my truck, street bike, and race bike, as well as other stuff I would rather have kept. Best time of my life indeed...

[DOUBLE A]

Very Nice!!! And well put, ERIK! I also just started even racing this year w/ no track days/practice fridays or even seen MRA tracks before race 1 pueblo. I run a tired 05' 1000rr, that complains to me every lap, has 35,000 miles plus on it! I have a slip on pipe, pwr. comm. , and a rear shock. And I dont have podiums....yet, but I am consistanly getting better, and on the heels of the top 5, I know I need a ton of more expierence, and All the help I can get, but if you are on a brand new bike, & all the bells, and behind my slow ass, there should be some thought about that B4 spending anouther 1000.00 on your bike...I will definatly will talk to ERIK...& all the other good racers too. That's our sport!

[nobasin]

i got my race license in '07 and raced a complete season entering every class i could (5 classes every weekend) that year and had fully planned on continuing that for years, as racing seemed to be the tonic for my mind i had been seeking for years. '08 found me with surgery in april that kept me off motorcycles and mtn. bikes for the entire summer, and then '09 disintegrated before it started because both my wife and i are self employed, were getting battered by the economy, have 2 mortgages, just had our first baby a couple weeks ago and putting aside enough funds for an 11 race season just wasn't realistic.

i don't need to race to win or even be competitive...racing for me is about the personal challenge and focus required to go fast on any bike, and just simply going fast on a motorcycle. honestly, i'd be happy making laps on my '73 rd250 if it would pass tech. but there is the competitive aspect of it as well, and trying to race an 11 race season seems like too much. that doesn't leave a whole lot time in the summer for much else, other than racing, and family time and simple down time are super important as well on summer weekends.

i think there needs to be some compromise and i like the idea of maybe an 8 or 9 race season, with championships decided by perhaps the best 7 races you can put together. that would allow people to miss a race here and there for any reason, financial or otherwise but still be in the thick of it and feel like their competitive fire still gets fanned.

reading ben fox's post on budget numbers is an eye opener. most motorcycle racers are not 6 figure incomer earners, and the way things are going, to be competitive, you have to be.

bottom line is that it seems the majority of the reasons for not racing are financial. when times are good, people justify the money to race. when times are bad, it's hard to decide between racing or health insurance or any other difficult decisions. racing will lose those battles everytime when it is up against self preservation.

[Ashli]

So, here is what is driving me away from racing. First, let me state that outside of work, racing is what I spend most of my time working towards and thinking about. What is driving me away is major changes to the schedule for the second year in a row. I don't know about the rest of you but I plan my entire summer and a lot of my winter around racing. I assume that most of you are in the same boat. We plan vacation and sometime cut them short in order to be back in time to race. People plan weddings, business travel and family reunions all around the race schedule. Last year, I had to change my wedding plans because the MRA decided to add a race to the end of season. I am lucky to have an understanding wife but the schedule was set, then moved, then set again, then moved again. As members many of us have wives, significant others and helpers whose schedules and lives are effected by these changes as well. We all start making out plans as soon as the schedule is finalized and all of the above mentioned people do the same. Because of the schedule changes from 2006, 2008 and this current season, I may have to find another place to race in the future or maybe just hang it up for a while. The schedule changes get very hard on the races as well as the whole support staff behind each racer.

Dave, I know that was not exactly what you asked but it may be what keeps me from coming back next year!

+1-- I'd say Crash's reason is the second reason we're benched this season.

[HAMMER]

ERIC IS DEAD ON !!!!!! WON A CHAMPIONSHIP ON A BASICLY STOCK R6!!!!!! and top four in HW endurance and HWSB on a 107hp 600

camped at the track , brought my own food . all my cash is for entrys ,PUMP gas , and 1 set of rubber!

and if your fast......tires are almost FREEEEEEEEE

about 6 ta 7 hunski a weekend

and actually as a novice id just run take offs IMO

and if ya miss a weekend . startin in back is fun (MORE SQUIDS TO PASS )

[T Baggins]

So, here is what is driving me away from racing. First, let me state that outside of work, racing is what I spend most of my time working towards and thinking about. What is driving me away is major changes to the schedule for the second year in a row. I don't know about the rest of you but I plan my entire summer and a lot of my winter around racing. I assume that most of you are in the same boat. We plan vacation and sometime cut them short in order to be back in time to race. People plan weddings, business travel and family reunions all around the race schedule. Last year, I had to change my wedding plans because the MRA decided to add a race to the end of season. I am lucky to have an understanding wife but the schedule was set, then moved, then set again, then moved again. As members many of us have wives, significant others and helpers whose schedules and lives are effected by these changes as well. We all start making out plans as soon as the schedule is finalized and all of the above mentioned people do the same. Because of the schedule changes from 2006, 2008 and this current season, I may have to find another place to race in the future or maybe just hang it up for a while. The schedule changes get very hard on the races as well as the whole support staff behind each racer.

Dave, I know that was not exactly what you asked but it may be what keeps me from coming back next year!

+1-- I'd say Crash's reason is the second reason we're benched this season.

Because of the monumental commitment/sacrifice by racer, spouse, friends and family - or because the schedule "may" change??

I'm confused... Seriously, are people are thinking of quitting the MRA because we've made (arguably) one bad choice by adding a race last year and two (not arguably) very necessary choices to cancel the PPIR rounds so the club doesn't vanish into the history books?

Eff me with a rake if it comes down to that. Nobody could have known that PPIR was coming back last year - and it looked to be a good opportunity to get our members back to a track that they love. Also, nobody could have known that our attendance (at the 6 rounds which were scheduled, and ran as scheduled) would be so poor.

Now you're not going to come back (or are considering leaving) because there are now two weekends you DON'T have to spend $1000+ with the MRA this year? :roll:

[clowe]

Tony,

The schedule changes are only part of my point. I understand that the board is doing what it needs to do to save the club. I don't have any issues with that at all. AND, I don't know what my plans are for racing next year, I haven't even finished this one yet. BUT, regardless of the the reasons, I had to adjust my wedding plans last season due to race schedule which we pretty much built our wedding around. That is a pretty tough nut to swallow and explain to new in-laws (I am glad they are so cool). I also changed plans when HPR was not finished as scheduled and our races didn't happen there because the board wanted to hang onto the idea that it would be done (More schedule changes). I am not upset about any of this, it is just hard (again, regardless of reasons) to plan six or seven months of your life, and that of spouses, families and friends only to have schedules change pretty last minute. We were on a vacation last week and I purposely cut it short to be back for PPIR. We book this trip a month and a half ago and planned it longer than that. To extend the trip would have cost an extra $1500 in plan tickets. If I would have booked it that way from the get go I would have paid the same.

Look, I understand why the MRA had to cancel the PPIR rounds and I am fine with it. But, for almost all of us, racing consumes a lot of our lives and in turn, a lot of lives of those who love us and support us. When schedules change, again regardless of the reason, it does have a huge effect on more than just the racers, but also the families, friends and not to mention the vendors.

Tony, I know the board is doing what it needs to do but it doesn't make it any less frustrating. I was just trying to answer Dave's question.

With all that said, thank you and the board for all that you do. I know you have the clubs best interest in mind and that you work (and drink) you ass off for the MRA. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[clowe]

Novices.......

Go read Erik's message again, take it to heart and get to the track. Stop worrying about building you motor or having the most trick parts. Spend you money on a good suspension that works for you, tires and learning to be a better rider. The rest of the stuff will come and be more worthwhile with time.

Again, go read Erik's post and head his words!!!!!!!

Next, get out the track!

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

I agree with Crash's view on racing and how most of my outside work life revolves around the race schedule, bike prep, transporter maintenance, etc.etc. Not everyone can make that kind of committment and I think we've been running off racers who can't.

As an aside, I want to point out that the racers at the Aug 2008 Pueblo raceday meeting voted overwhelmingly to have an 11 race season for 2009 (vs. a shorter one). We also voted by a large margin to make every race count toward championships. I personally thought this was insane. But that's a digression...

But back to Crash's point ... a lot of the ideas being discussed here have the theme of making racing more appealing to racers who have jobs, families, and personal lives outside racing. We need to focus on that somewhat -

I've volunteered to collect up all the ideas being discussed on the forum and do a first pass summary/sorting of them (similar to what I've done for rule proposals). Keep the thoughts coming - I'll figure out a way to post the summary for review...

[dragos13]

As an aside, I want to point out that the racers at the Aug 2008 Pueblo raceday meeting voted overwhelmingly to have an 11 race season for 2009 (vs. a shorter one). We also voted by a large margin to make every race count toward championships. I personally thought this was insane. But that's a digression...

Where are all those race-happy racers now???

[Throttleroller277]

As an aside, I want to point out that the racers at the Aug 2008 Pueblo raceday meeting voted overwhelmingly to have an 11 race season for 2009 (vs. a shorter one). We also voted by a large margin to make every race count toward championships. I personally thought this was insane. But that's a digression...

Where are all those race-happy racers now???

I think broke, for the majority..... the state of the economy wasn't as bad at that point either..... keep that in mind too. 8)

[gixxermike]

Where are all those race-happy racers now???

I voted for that and now I'm in Iraq

[Lel399]

Life changes, people change, life priorities change. I have been around the MRA since 2003 and have seen a lot change in the organization in that time. We have lost SCR, CDR, sorta lost/regained PPIR, La Junta… Things definitely have changed in the past 6 years, I guess that’s also what’s happened with me. My life priorities have changed.

It’s not that I don’t want to ride, because I do, and I enjoy it; but finding time to practice and race when I have been having such a great time with my wife Beth playing dog sports, camping etc; it does not leave much time for racing. I really enjoy spending time with her and she has put a lot of time and effort into my racing the past few years (and recovery from crashes), not only is it fair to her for me to take it easy from racing for a while, but its fun for me to do other things as well!

Of course the money is an issue, but as people have said most racers will do whatever they need to in order to race when they want to; and I am no different. What it has come down to for me is not so much the money to actually race but it’s the money to practice/ride to ENJOY the sport. I got into this not to make money/break even as a lot of the top guys can, but to enjoy racing, enjoy my weekends, enjoy open throttle in a safe environment. As I said above we have lost a lot of local, easy to get to tracks. Its not the loss of the venue’s variety that bothers me, but the apparent venue’s loss of competition with each other.

It used to be $45 Thursday bike night at SCR, used to be $45 half day at pueblo and you could roll in at 10:30-11 and set up your stuff and take your time before you start riding, CDR was the same way. You would show up at SCR and be out there on your bike all street-ed up with lights taped up and then some ‘numbered’ bike would come blowing by your ‘fast’ 1:20 laptime (hahah god I remember when breaking into the ‘teens’ was a big step at SCR). Trust me, I understand some of the stringent safety stuff for obvious reasons, but this is no longer an easy sport to just ‘get into’ in Colorado as it was just 5 or 6 years ago. To me it seems like tracks now know there is nothing else around, so if you’re going to ride you will do it their way and pay their fees or its the highway; and they are taking it to the racers wallets hard. I really think the way it used to be was a HUGE part of getting new racers; and with these changes the way they are now, the racers who knew it the previous ways are not as inclined to stick around for the new ‘experience’.

What is it now, $150 a day @ HPR? A track that we as members are supposed to own? I understand the costs it takes to set up the track, get it built, make it operational, pay back debt etc, so there is no reason to shove that back at me. However, no longer having the ability to ride half days (not even being allowed in the track until what is it? 12:30 to set up is not a half day, and not worth the $90 or whatever it is and no longer morning half days? Doesn’t work well when we get afternoon storms every day). I live in Highlands Ranch, and I can make it to HPR only roughly 15 mins quicker then Pueblo (at most!) so it’s not a closer track for me so the ‘ease’ of just going to the track to enjoy a day is definitely not there. I have yet to ride HPR after donating my $300 to it, I really want to, but haven’t found the time or the desire to schedule a day to go ride (as I said gone are the days of ‘hey I want to go ride today’).

The other thing that worries me is that this is a dangerous sport; and it always has been. I know that I make my own choices when I go on the track; but what scare’s me is not me, but other riders. At $150 a day, how much are people practicing at a track? How much are local people riding? You go into a turn with a rider that never rides other than when they race and feel they might be able to go in just as hot as the guy in front of them, without the experience of that speed, or the front pushing on the entry etc. A lot of new racers have their big head because they were the fastest guy in the canyons, yet have never ridden ‘against’ racers and think they are just as fast or faster. Sometimes they are, but more often then not, they are no where close to the speed of ANY experienced racer; but think they are fast enough to try and go into a turn inside that other racer… we know how these type of situations turn out.

This is not just novice/am classes where you have the ‘new racer’. I believe Endurance, Vintage, SuperTwins are all classes that a Novice can ride in. So if you say, ‘don’t race those classes where a new rider may be in’; while those are the ‘relaxing’ classes. Besides go to MWSB, MWSS or the like; every guy is fighting for the lead and thinks they are the next number 1; these classes are FAR more dangerous to be mid pack than front of pack, and no one that is a casual rider wanting to just have fun will end up front of pack in this type of class.

So I guess that leaves me at $150 a day for a track day and occasional racing, and at that rate it is coming close to the prices of tracks like Pahrump (I think $185/day last time I was there), Laguna, MMP, Las Vegas Classic Course…. Etc, destination tracks that could be mini vacations and have something Beth can do in town while I ride for a day. If I am going to have to now plan out a day, ride in sessions, take a day off work etc to ride at a local track, I might as well start having fun riding at new places with different track day organizations. Go somewhere where I get the thrill of riding without the worry that the guy behind me might have only been on the track 3 times EVER and is now racing and is coming barreling into Turn1 with no idea how to hold a line or pass with a degree of care. As club racers, we all know Monday will always pay better than Sunday, but that is often forgotten when the light goes green and the adrenaline kicks in.

I guess my very long winded response is why I am not around this year. I do miss it, I would like to be around, and I will be around at some point; maybe this year, maybe next, who knows.

Jason Leleck
#399

[dragos13]

I voted for that and now I'm in Iraq

I applaud your service no doubt. You have a very valid excuse.

Do you think next year we can try a smaller race season? I was all for the 11 race season but I really think that detered alot of the other racers from coming back. Like Brownie said, the economy kept getting worse and now its hard to afford an 11 round season.

Maybe if it was only 8 races to begin with, more experts would be in the points?

PS: Jason we miss you!!!!!

[2Blue]

Since you asked, I'll get this off of my chest. It's been a strange year for me. It's my second year racing and it's my first year as an expert. By the end of my novice season, I was starting to feel pretty confident on my stock R1, until my family and I witnessed Clarkie sliding down the track lifeless at ppir and Glenn performing CPR on him. While I never met Clarkie until a month ago, I always enjoyed watching him race. I consistently followed his status on the getwellclarkie site. After seeing how well he's recovered, in some sort of strange way, I'm starting to get some confidence back. His event has had a serious impact on my decisions to get on the track. I know what we do is very dangerous and crashes are a part of racing, I just hate them! So to answer your question, I must humbly admit that my limited turn out is do to fear, which I'm slowly overcoming. See ya at HPR.

Curt

[gixxermike]

You have a very valid excuse.

I definitely rather be there than here making vroom vroom sounds and kicking sand around... :lol:

But like alot of guys have said it's all about the $$ and i had to make the decision to come contract over here for a year or 2 b/c when I got out of the military last year there were no jobs.

[jmart]

Well put guys. To piggy back on what Crash, Ben, and others have posted, I was one who was concerned that my ex-commuter bike was not going to fair well this season. I entered the season on a shoe string budget so I was approaching this year to just gain experience and have FUN. All inquiring racers take heed of the advice from other novices & seasoned experts. You DO NOT need the latest and greatest of go fast parts on your bike to be competitive. I ran take offs up until the last round in Pueblo. Granted I’m not the fastest guy out there, but I’m learning how to control the slides (take offs ) and having a blast chasing the guys and girl ahead of me. If you love the sport and the rush it provides, than by all means run take offs and push your existing bike to the limits before worrying about SS or SB builds and race fuels.

2nd wave, who cares. If you’re confident on your bike, make up 3 or 4 rows on the start and get up there. By the next round who knows, you might just make the first wave. If you are on the fence about it, come out! You’ll be glad you did. And for next season, at Christmas, ask for a set of tires. :wink: Ok, back to your regular scheduled program.

Jessie
135

[ctb]

I have withheld contribution to this thread because my/our circumstances may be fairly unique, as I don't know of anyone else who was on a bike racing 7 weeks after giving birth, but here goes, as succinctly as possible:

I raced my first season in 2007, a FULL season, not missing a race despite injury and financial crunch. My husband did as well (with the exception of two races he could not run due to a dislocated shoulder) Two riders, two bikes, all the races near and far...boy THAT WAS PRICEY! Not to mention time consuming, but definitely FUN! I worked my way up to start first wave each time in both novis classes and fought it out with the same peeps most weekends. Not burning up the track, but improving. I ran the last two races of the season pregnant (go ahead, flame away) still (naively) thinking..."well I am due in April, so I will have to miss that first round in 2008, but after that, no problem." WRONG.

I DID return to the second round of 2008 7 weeks after giving birth, and promptly crashed, separated my shoulder, couldn't pick-up my daughter, and honestly lost all interest. Priorities change, people get older, wiser and reassess what is truly important. I sat out the rest of the season because, honestly, my daughter is more important than anything else. Alan did continue to race, though, and only missed 2 rounds, I think.

Fast forward to this year...
We have two bikes, one well-prepped, one getting up there in age needing a fair amount of "refreshing" ($$), so we decide to share. Our races we used to run are back to back and we have our daughter at the track who we can't just hand over on the hot pit lane. that means someone is not running races they used to run, so between Alan and I we are doing half the classes we used to (me even more so since I switched from a 600 to a 750...) We both skip the first weekend because of more important things (10 people coming into town for our daughter's birthday) and catch the 2nd round. Now instead of feeling like we are "wow, paying a lot for each running 3 classes" we feel like we are getting bent over for running fewer. I did NGTO, and started WELL back in the second wave, since I missed the first round. I get a fine start, work my way through people, just to have some newb blow past me into a turn, highside in front of me, which diverted me off track, only to have to pass all those people I already passed, who scared the crap out of me with their "lines" the first time I passed them. It rained the next day and I went home. I have not been back since. To distill this down, here are MY reasons...

1) Family comes first. If they are in town, I am with them, if it is crappy and not fun for my daughter to be at the track, we go home. Maybe the demographics of our club are becoming "family" aged now? Could just be me.

2) Money, of course, but this actually isn't the biggest deal, even in a year where we are buying a new house. What is a deal breaker for me as far as the finances go is how much it costs to do ONE race. That is EXACTLY what has kept me from doing just that one race, when I can't do more.

3) Lingering injury (see round 2, 2008)

4) (as Ben eluded to in the qulifying thread) Grid position for someone that is not a "workhorse" out there every race, for whatever reason. I am not rossi-esque in my speed, but I'd like to ride with people similar in speed and ability to my self and not have to check -up 15 times a lap because I have no clue what the person ahead of me thinks they are doing. (p.s. yes, I know, I know, don't worry about the other person, but I HAVE TO NOW)

I don't know WHICH, if any, of these issues is familiar to anyone else, or even if they are the reasons for my husband, but that is my $0.02. Lots of good points made by others, too that I can relate to. I will be there in 2 weeks, because it was implored of us, but after that...not sure.

[cu260r6]

I raced with the MRA for 4 years on and off, making about 70% of the races each year. I have not raced yet this year due to constraints on my time and funds, but I am all set to do the next three HPR races if they happen. I started a new job, which I really enjoy, but I cannot take any days off to race or practice. I'm not going to go racing unless I can fully commit to it. Gridding up at the back each race isn't helping entice many racers back either.

My first year racing I did fairly well, enjoyed the experience immensely, and improved at a rate I was pleased with because I had the time and funds to make racing a priority. In subsequent seasons I never had both the time and the money on the same weekend to consistently ride as fast as I felt I could. I expect the vast majority of racers sitting on the sidelines are doing so because of one of those two reasons, but the MRA can only really affect one. When a set of tires are approaching $500, race gas is $100 for a weekend, then $200 in entry fees is a relatively small portion of a racer's total costs. It's an even smaller percentage when considering the cost to setting up a bike. However, making racing more competitive for everyone by eliminating the time necessary to build and maintain a competitive bike and increasing the practice time or options available is within the MRA's control. If the club is losing $$$ dramatically then minute changes are not going to solve anything. A severe class/rulebook/procedure change might be in order.

Increasing revenue by attracting new riders is the only other option. The MRA does appear to some like a very closed group that takes a long time to break into. I met some great people racing, but I always felt like I was treated as an outsider by some. I came to to the track to go as fast as I could on the bike alone, but I became very tired of being treated by some slow, uptight people as if I was some punk miscreant because I didn't fit their mold or have all their resources. New racers of this type are growing fewer and fewer. The ones with the time and means will continue to race, but being more flexible to the ones that are limited in these will go a long way to attracting more racers that are on the fence.

Finally, the fixed costs that I've heard the MRA spend money on seem excessive to me. Snail mailings are so 1900's Why not put everything online, or even use an email list? How much does printing a rulebook, license app, and ballot and sending them to every rider cost? Also, the banquet seems like an expendable cost in these economic times, although is this is self sufficient with ticket sales?

[PrillerGrrl]

I hit an unprotected wall at PPIR last October and died, twice :cry:

No one knew, but PPIR last October was always going to be my last race so going to the track now and not racing is easy for me

*hug*

Katie
188

[froth]

gixxermike:

Any openings in the logistics field over there? Transportation(port ops, driver, HAZMAT cert, etc...Hardwood Flooring?)

Keep safe.

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

..but I am all set to do the next three HPR races if they happen.

Good to hear!

Gridding up at the back each race isn't helping entice many racers back either.

We may want to look at qualifying for grid spots again for next year. I know you could get farther up if we did that.

However, making racing more competitive for everyone by eliminating the time necessary to build and maintain a competitive bike and increasing the practice time or options available is within the MRA's control.

It is, kind of, if by "within the MRA's control" you mean the entire club. The rules are set by the members wishing to participate in the rule change process. The practice time is a schedule balance against holding more races.

Increasing revenue by attracting new riders is the only other option.

I totally agree.

The MRA does appear to some like a very closed group that takes a long time to break into. I met some great people racing, but I always felt like I was treated as an outsider by some.

That was because of your mohak helmet. :wink:

I came to to the track to go as fast as I could on the bike alone, but I became very tired of being treated by some slow, uptight people as if I was some punk miscreant because I didn't fit their mold or have all their resources.

Hmm... I'm starting to envision a new race class .. "punk/miscreant" - nominees - Charles, Hammer, Turtle, Brownie, .. am I getting close?

Snail mailings are so 1900's Why not put everything online, or even use an email list? How much does printing a rulebook, license app, and ballot and sending them to every rider cost? Also, the banquet seems like an expendable cost in these economic times, although is this is self sufficient with ticket sales?

People beat up the MRA board if we change something at the last minute and "only" announce it electronically. The rulebook, licenses, and most of the other stuff is self-funding - notice the advertisements in the rulebook (thanks Nude & Ricky). There are also some things we're required to do by the by-laws - like notification of an annual meeting.

The banquet is definitely at risk. It *can* fund itself if we have sufficient attendence. It's usually financially edgy. I'm thinking this year might be an outdoor pot-luck @ HPR. Bring your coat.

... on second thought .. with all the damn huge RV's in the club, maybe we make it a "progressive dinner" type thing where each RV'er makes something and people wander between them to get stuff to eat.

[Wild Cheetah 612]

You guys are posting up some really awesome stuff! Keep it rolling! This exactly what the Board needs to hear and I appreciate everyone's honesty and civility. With Jim compiling all this info, we can make our decisions based on what YOU, the member, wants and not just what WE, the board, THINK you want!

[gixxermike]

Any openings in the logistics field over there? Transportation(port ops, driver, HAZMAT cert, etc...Hardwood Flooring?)

Pm'd u!

[froth]

Got the info. Thanks.