dumb question of the day for "racers"

[glenngsxr]

Glenn made a comment above about DMG spec supersport, blah blah whatever. I fully disagree, there's closer racing than ever in the AMA now, it's not just mladin running away every weekend. have you watched a 600 race in the ama? it's anybodys win if they want it bad enough.

When you bring the bikes closer in spec to each other the racing will be better, it will be cheaper, and those two things alone will drive up entrys and specators. its quite simple people want to see racers dicing it up they want to see a pack of ten guys go back and forth lap after lap.

Last I checked, Mladin can still check out anytime he wants.
http://www.amaproracing.com/rr/event...s.cfm?class=sb

Anybody can win in Supersport because its split into east and west and there is only a handful of riders that do the entire series.

Closer to spec bikes are not going to help club racing. It's still expensive for the average person to race even a bone stock bike, period. We are not here to discuss the DMG series. I simply made a point that people want innovation and they want to see the baddest machines doing battle.

[glenngsxr]

Dave I haven't been back because I'm tried of the BS.

Now here's a quote for the ages. Really helpful.

That opinion is perfectly valid, and Lurch is not the only one to express it.

It might be valid, but we are discussing ways to get growth in the club, both spectating and racing. Saying "I'm tired of the BS" is not helping anything. Lurch, can you elaborate on what and how we can fix this BS? Glenn #62

[dave.gallant]

Dave I haven't been back because I'm tried of the BS.

Now here's a quote for the ages. Really helpful.

That opinion is perfectly valid, and Lurch is not the only one to express it.

It might be valid, but we are discussing ways to get growth in the club, both spectating and racing. Saying "I'm tired of the BS" is not helping anything. Lurch, can you elaborate on what and how we can fix this BS? Glenn #62

No, this thread is not about growth.

I started this thread asking for reasons why people are no longer (or not able to) race.

Feel free to go deal with PR and growth issues in the other thread. Lurch's opinion is exactly what I asked for.

[JimWilson29]

Last I checked, Mladin can still check out anytime he wants.
http://www.amaproracing.com/rr/event...s.cfm?class=sb

actually he hasnt been checking out if you have been watching all the races. it has been much, much closer now. Mladin still wins because he is the best rider out there. if we went to rules which limited the mods, Shane and Brad would still win but the rest of the field would probably be a little bit closer and the racing more competitive.

Closer to spec bikes are not going to help club racing. It's still expensive for the average person to race even a bone stock bike, period. We are not here to discuss the DMG series. I simply made a point that people want innovation and they want to see the baddest machines doing battle.

Why wouldnt it? And I dont think innovation is as important at the club level as it is at the national or world level.

[glenngsxr]

Dave I haven't been back because I'm tried of the BS.

Now here's a quote for the ages. Really helpful.

That opinion is perfectly valid, and Lurch is not the only one to express it.

It might be valid, but we are discussing ways to get growth in the club, both spectating and racing. Saying "I'm tired of the BS" is not helping anything. Lurch, can you elaborate on what and how we can fix this BS? Glenn #62

No, this thread is not about growth.

I started this thread asking for reasons why people are no longer (or not able to) race.

Feel free to go deal with PR and growth issues in the other thread. Lurch's opinion is exactly what I asked for.

OK, technically this thread is not directly about growth. It's about why it's not growing. Why are people leaving? Lurch's "opinion" was hardly an opinion. It was not constructive and offered no insight as to why he left. If there is BS going on, let's let it out and fix it. There is no better time to talk about it than right now when the club is down and may need some revamping to grow.

Dave,
so far would you conclude that money has been the biggest factor in people leaving?

[glenngsxr]

Last I checked, Mladin can still check out anytime he wants.
http://www.amaproracing.com/rr/event...s.cfm?class=sb

actually he hasnt been checking out if you have been watching all the races. it has been much, much closer now. Mladin still wins because he is the best rider out there. if we went to rules which limited the mods, Shane and Brad would still win but the rest of the field would probably be a little bit closer and the racing more competitive.

Closer to spec bikes are not going to help club racing. It's still expensive for the average person to race even a bone stock bike, period. We are not here to discuss the DMG series. I simply made a point that people want innovation and they want to see the baddest machines doing battle.

Why wouldnt it? And I dont think innovation is as important at the club level as it is at the national or world level.

So instead of winning by 14 seconds, it's only 9 now.

Jim, you are probably right about the innovation though.

[dave.gallant]

OK, technically this thread is not directly about growth. It's about why it's not growing.

No, again this thread is about reasons why people are not racing.

Feel free to bait someone in any one of the numerous "growth" threads, however stop attempting to invalidate reasons simply because they are not your own.

[glenngsxr]

OK, technically this thread is not directly about growth. It's about why it's not growing.

No, again this thread is about reasons why people are not racing.

Feel free to bait someone in any one of the numerous "growth" threads, however stop attempting to invalidate reasons simply because they are not your own.

Dave,
I did not invalidate Lurch's reason. Where are you seeing this? I'm simply saying to give reasons why you are not racing(just like the thread indicates). What if I came in here and said, "I am not racing this year just because"? Does that answer any questions? I am not trying to bait anyone.

[Lurch]

OK, technically this thread is not directly about growth. It's about why it's not growing.

No, again this thread is about reasons why people are not racing.

Feel free to bait someone in any one of the numerous "growth" threads, however stop attempting to invalidate reasons simply because they are not your own.

Dave,
I did not invalidate Lurch's reason. Where are you seeing this? I'm simply saying to give reasons why you are not racing(just like the thread indicates). What if I came in here and said, "I am not racing this year just because"? Does that answer any questions? I am not trying to bait anyone.

Glenn,
I don't really want to get in the specifics as I don't want to get into a pissing match on the forums about the MRA. I have done it enough in the past. All I'm saying is the little things add up and thats why I moved on.

[glenngsxr]

OK, technically this thread is not directly about growth. It's about why it's not growing.

No, again this thread is about reasons why people are not racing.

Feel free to bait someone in any one of the numerous "growth" threads, however stop attempting to invalidate reasons simply because they are not your own.

Dave,
I did not invalidate Lurch's reason. Where are you seeing this? I'm simply saying to give reasons why you are not racing(just like the thread indicates). What if I came in here and said, "I am not racing this year just because"? Does that answer any questions? I am not trying to bait anyone.

Glenn,
I don't really want to get in the specifics as I don't want to get into a pissing match on the forums about the MRA. I have done it enough in the past. All I'm saying is the little things add up and thats why I moved on.

Fair enough Doug. I respect that. Are you gonna come spectate anytime soon? I kind of miss seeing a giant walk through the pits. glenn #62

[Clarkie]

I hit an unprotected wall at PPIR last October and died, twice :cry:

No one knew, but PPIR last October was always going to be my last race so going to the track now and not racing is easy for me

[hcr25]

I know Sete misses Lurch!

[ldenvermom]

For us - the Fullers, several reasons as I see it (of course, Chris will see it differently - yin & yang to those that know us).

When Chris and I met, he was a street rider - big smiles everytime he got on that bike. He took me out once (this was 10 years ago) and went over 100 on I-25 and I just about peed my pants.

So, he says that he and his best friend have always wanted to race - I found the track and in the middle of March, with my gloves on cause it was so dang cold, I was out there waving a checkered flag I had found in the box over the track at Second Creek...and I watched my most beloved find his passion. So, he gave up drinking, carousing and all the other stuff you spend your money on - to race.

Chris did really well at the begining of seasons... and then things that take money would happen - tranny blows, engine throws something - whatever, and we wouldn't have the funds to fix it (keep in mind, this is 5+ years ago - so finance has always been a reason)

I mean really, you have to love racing to name your first born Racer - right? And we had to be in love with racing to be at the track 9 days after he was born and 4 days after our daughter was born. You have to love it, and your family has to love it.

But, I got to tell you - more than one screaming match ensued as my husband drug his wife and toddler/infant to the tracks with nothing but awnings on raining, sleeting, 90+ degree weather, wind that fills your ears with dirt - to watch him enjoy the very thing that we began to hate. All I ever saw was the money spent for nothing but a few minutes on the track (I know, I know - if you don't race, you don't understand). I didn't want to be the type of wife who stops her husband stop racing - its' not like that...its that I wanted to stop racing...

So, we went one year - with me and the kids not going, and guess what - cost the same, but then there was less love for him doing it. Because we had fallen in love with racing for a family sport and he wasn't 'family' anymore. With their being more races, closer together = more costly, and well - just wasn't fun FOR HIM anymore.

So - we tried another avenue - the RV...LOVE IT, and lo'behold - others got RV's and they started cropping up -things got easier to be at the track , again for the family, and the smile that I loved so much on my husband, got bigger every time he got off the track - because we were there again.

I was trying to be so supportive that I even 'supplemented' the cost of racing by working a third job (Treasure of the MRA) for two years. Boy did it help and we realized, this is expensive . But our tattoo shop hits us in the...finances again...when we find everyone in our shop was stealing from us (because we were too giving-go figure) and now, we rob personal Peter to pay business Paul every day. So, racing is the only thing we can give up on.

You wonder what my long-winded posts' final summary is ...- its' mostly, now, about time with the family and the money that you have to spend to be competitive. Its about a shift in priorities when you only have one day together as a family every week. Its about paying five other breadwinners for their families instead of spending your free cash on yourself...

(I say it is a hobby and Chris looks at me like I'm speaking a foreign language - he says you can 'DO' hobby and compete and love it. )

We've toyed with the thoughts that the club now, just doesn't feel like a "family" club anymore, those that have been around forever know what I'm talking about. We thought last year about 'when we make it big' to see about a class where bikes are 'rented' - everyone the same and you pick number, get on the bike and well, your skill is what wins it for you. That is what I personally miss - I can't justify $10+ a year for something that really...is for the rider. Fun and all, but lying on a beach three or four times a year with the kids laughing in the sun for the same amount of money...guess it just comes down to choices.

Love everyone - love my husband, but its' really nice to have a life too.
xoxo
L

Racing - has just become too much money - way too much time and really, the politics got to me.

[Wild Cheetah 612]

I started this thread asking for reasons why people are no longer (or not able to) race.

Feel free to go deal with PR and growth issues in the other thread. Lurch's opinion is exactly what I asked for.

I agree with Dave. I'd love to hear what Lurch has to say and others as well. If I'm screwing up as a member of the board, then I want to hear about it so I can do better. So, please, bitch away! Let's just keep it civil and not get personal.

Civil:
I would like to see different trophies for the races. Maybe something larger and plastic.

Personal:
I hate the trophies that bitch Donna got and she sucks, too!

If you don't want to make your opinions public, then PLEASE PM me or any other board member you feel comfortable with.

[froth]

'Nette: I love your post. Teri and I are in a similar boat. I drug her to the races, got married to her(best decision I ever made), and enjoy racing as much as ever.
Problem: Money. Teri and I for a weekend pay out about $750.00. This will cover the two of us for the races both of us do. Not excessive, I do about five, and she does two. Please remember this includes all the wonderful amenities that include membership in Club P. Chris and Big Mike spend more than that to be there, feeding who knows how many(read anyone who shows up hungry and thirsty, I swear, they must be from the south, Hospitality is their trademark, and they are VERY seriuos about it). With work being about 60% off, it's difficult, to say the least. Of course, we are rowing the same boat as everyone.
How does this relate? We run a '99 SV650, with only carbs, full exhaust, stoci forks(with emulators), and good rear shock. It can be relatively economical to race, and play mid pack... if we have $$$$$$$$. Unfortunately we have less than before.
As Chris Dale said, there are lots of inexpensive machines(Gs500 for less than 12 small) out there if ego doesn't get in the way. Of course, I'm WAY older than most of the MRA, and don't heal nearly as quickly as I used to.
It's just that we don't have the disposable money anymore. The fact that I suck riding inline 4's has nothing to do with it.
To tell the truth, I really believe that if we manage it through even part of this season(the MRA, I'm pretty sure I'll be alive at the end. Clarkie, Teri and I are so glad you are still with us, plese don't go for three!!!) we should look at the idea of the intro class. If we just say "I don't want to deal with 'Nubes on the track" we will ensure that constriction will be the norm, instead of expansion fo the club.
In short, we either make it easy for the beginners to get whatevermachinery they have on to the track for at least one event, or we travel a thousand miles to road race, 'cause we will have killed the MRA.
Man, I'm not enjoying this, but I do thank our board for doing the work they have to do. They are putting forth gallons of midnight oil, and not every decision they make will be universally popular(yep, I don't agree with all of them, but I didn't run for membersip, so.....)

Let's Hope for Change(LOL)

[Scored51]

... Maybe something larger and plastic.

Donna,

That could be considered Civil or Personal. Have you been reading from my wife's Christmas list?

[Wild Cheetah 612]

Sorry, Chris, but plastic is not the correct texture and pliability. Want me to take you shopping?

[modvin1]

For 24 years $$$$ have always been the deciding factor,Hard to justify throwing away 3-4 large just to have the most fun you can have with clothes (leathers) on. I am thankful that I still have a job,roof over my head and am healthy enough to race at least 3 times to keep my #. Time for prep is also problematic @ times.

[Ashli]

I hit an unprotected wall at PPIR last October and died, twice :cry:

No one knew, but PPIR last October was always going to be my last race so going to the track now and not racing is easy for me

Clarkie, it's good to see you out at the track even after everything you went through. IMI Sunday??

[clowe]

So, here is what is driving me away from racing. First, let me state that outside of work, racing is what I spend most of my time working towards and thinking about. What is driving me away is major changes to the schedule for the second year in a row. I don't know about the rest of you but I plan my entire summer and a lot of my winter around racing. I assume that most of you are in the same boat. We plan vacation and sometime cut them short in order to be back in time to race. People plan weddings, business travel and family reunions all around the race schedule. Last year, I had to change my wedding plans because the MRA decided to add a race to the end of season. I am lucky to have an understanding wife but the schedule was set, then moved, then set again, then moved again. As members many of us have wives, significant others and helpers whose schedules and lives are effected by these changes as well. We all start making out plans as soon as the schedule is finalized and all of the above mentioned people do the same. Because of the schedule changes from 2006, 2008 and this current season, I may have to find another place to race in the future or maybe just hang it up for a while. The schedule changes get very hard on the races as well as the whole support staff behind each racer.

Dave, I know that was not exactly what you asked but it may be what keeps me from coming back next year!

[dave.gallant]

Dave, I know that was not exactly what you asked but it may be what keeps me from coming back next year!

Thanks for contributing Crash. All of the responses are very helpful.

[T Baggins]

Hey Crash, just note that we're not alone in schedule changes... you saw the OMMRA post I assume?

Adding PPIR last year was intended to be a "fun" exciting addition, though it obviously was not a benefit for everyone.

Changing the schedule this year is solely intended to salvage the club. It's inconvenient for all of us but better to do that and have the club stay solvent.

[chris nami]

i think it would be just fine to add races to a season as long as it doesn't count towards points.

[dragos13]

I think a major reason alot of expert racers didn't show up this year was due to the large 11 race schedule.

If we had planned only 7-8 races for the season, maybe more people would have committed to running the entire season. We know how easy it is to skip races when you aren't going for championship points.

How about next year we make a schedule that more people can afford to take part in. Maybe 8 races total, but PLEASE keep a variety of locations.

[cromer611]

Considering you dont need the fastest of newest machines to run top 5 in any of the Novice or Amateur classes the price issue isnt as bad as it would be for the faster expert guys.

Look at the top finishers in all the NOV and AM classes. None of them have super trick race bikes. I have run both AMU and AMO all year and only finished out of the top 5 twice all year on basically a stock bike.

What im trying to get at is, you can run up front in any NOV or AM class with practically a stock bike.

agreed......but.... what happens when that novice racer finishes 3rd in the nov championships?

he gets kicked "up" to the expert grids, where he'll be posed a very expensive question.... if I want to continue to race for 3rd position, then Im going to have to bring a bucket of cash.

Again this is why we lose some novices, they do good in nov....then try a hand at expert and see what it really takes to compete on the wallet level and then leave.

This isn't the case for everyone, some people are content running top ten, some aren't some cant' whatever......

Trying to eliminate some of the novice turnover rate would help the club, and this is just one area i see that could be improved upon as far as "keeping" racers....

I believe that you dont need to have deep pockets in order to go fast. Im on a stock motor, stock forks and internals, stock exhaust. the only thing i have spent on my bike is time on race prep and a rear shock.

for the novices reading this thread, you dont need all the trick stuff in order to go fast. Its all in your head, if you want it.... go get it. Dont go trying to upgrade components on your bike, look at yourself instead figure out where others are faster than you and learn. I know we are all bullheaded dudes but sometimes you have to admit to yourself that your doin something wrong. if ya need help ask someone, no questions are ever stupid. And if anyone needs help with lines come ask me, ill be glad to help, and if ya have suspension problems, talk to my pop. He is a physicist and is pretty good at diagnosing problems (as long as you can read your bike well).

so dont read these posts thinking "ah crap I will be a expert next year and get my ass kicked, i quit." Think of it as a time to improve yourself as a rider. Cuz I know I am. I know I will be at the end of the pack but i think it will be fun trying to beat guys on built bikes : P

I spend about 600-700 a weekend. I camp out at the track, bring my own food from home. I have a power inverter I run off my jeep ($120 from checker, workin for 2 years so far). I spend money on gas, tires, and entry fees. thats it! the Michelin Power 1's are so awesome they last me a entire weekend at race pace!

lets all remember that this is club racing. $56k a year is a high budget for even those fast guys in the AMA.