Radical Idea

[benfoxmra95]

Zip....just put on my flame retardent suit.


Maybe we should go back to a one day sunday only race schedule. Let an outside organizer run saturday practice.

that way the MRA is only in charge of paying for the track on sunday and all the people on sunday.

We need to be proactive, given the fact that all these clubs in the us are cancelling events.

[hcr25]

In order to do this we might have to combine more classes/drop them all together and do away with the endurance classes on Saturday.

Not saying it is a good or bad idea but it would be very hard to get all of our current classes run in one day.
mike

[dirkterrell]

In order to do this we might have to combine more classes/drop them all together and do away with the endurance classes on Saturday.

If endurance is dropped, I'll find another hobby.

Dirk

[dave.gallant]

In order to do this we might have to combine more classes/drop them all together and do away with the endurance classes on Saturday.

If endurance is dropped, I'll find another hobby.

Dirk

If this gets any more expensive for me OR the club, we are all going to find a new hobby.

[PremiumBlend]

Zip....just put on my flame retardent suit.


Maybe we should go back to a one day sunday only race schedule. Let an outside organizer run saturday practice.

that way the MRA is only in charge of paying for the track on sunday and all the people on sunday.

We need to be proactive, given the fact that all these clubs in the us are cancelling events.

This idea was also brought up at the Wed night meeting @ Walnut Room. I would say 3/4 of the people in the room liked the idea.

I think practice should be from say 8-9 or 9:30 and then the endurance race after that up to lunch. Lunch from 11-12 as usual and then after that it's an open track to street riders who want to come out and play. They pay a premium with a minimal prepped bike and have a blast. Win Win!

[marty]

This idea was also brought up at the Wed night meeting @ Walnut Room. I would say 3/4 of the people in the room liked the idea.

I think practice should be from say 8-9 or 9:30 and then the endurance race after that up to lunch. Lunch from 11-12 as usual and then after that it's an open track to street riders who want to come out and play. They pay a premium with a minimal prepped bike and have a blast. Win Win!

the problem with a minimally prepped bike is if they crack a case cover and leak oil on the track. sure we can clean it up, but i don't want to be the guy who tests the track to make sure. if minimally prepped street bikes race with us, which is not a horrible idea, i would like them to be the last race on sunday

[PremiumBlend]

This idea was also brought up at the Wed night meeting @ Walnut Room. I would say 3/4 of the people in the room liked the idea.

I think practice should be from say 8-9 or 9:30 and then the endurance race after that up to lunch. Lunch from 11-12 as usual and then after that it's an open track to street riders who want to come out and play. They pay a premium with a minimal prepped bike and have a blast. Win Win!

the problem with a minimally prepped bike is if they crack a case cover and leak oil on the track. sure we can clean it up, but i don't want to be the guy who tests the track to make sure. if minimally prepped street bikes race with us, which is not a horrible idea, i would like them to be the last race on sunday

I don't know what people are so scared about if a track has been cleaned properly. Sunday at 4 pm is NOT an optimal hour for street riders to jump on the track, that would never fly. But a saturday from 12-4 would be PERFECT. The best part is you can organize a ride down to the track, all of the guys can meet up and scoot down. Make it mandatory that they show up for the lunch hour to get basic rules, eat some lunch (bonus, b/c it puts more money in the clubs pockets) have them pay $80 or something like that for a half day on the track (already have corner workers there and staff, so why not) and then have a rider "escort" them around the track. They CANNOT pass the escort rider, but I'm sure whomever it is that escorts them can make it worth their while.

Finally, if they enjoyed it and want to do it again then we can start making them do upgrades to their bike to make it more track ready. Maybe start with something fairly simple but important... maybe RayRay has some ideas on what that could be. If they keep coming back after that (they are obviously getting hooked at this point and probably getting more comfortable and faster) require them to make certain mods to their bike. If they want to run on an OPEN track with no instructor then they need to come to either a Chicane Day or the Race School.

Just ideas, but if we want to make it happen... it could happen.

[marty]

I don't know what people are so scared about if a track has been cleaned properly.

don't get me wrong, i think our crew does an awesome job cleaning up oil. however, i don't want to take the time off work for travel and racing and spend the money on bikes and race fees to wipe out first thing in the morning because of oil from someone who didn't have case covers. let alone get hurt or destroy a bike. i am from the school of thought that if you are not willing to put it in the dumpster at the end of the weekend, then you shouldn't be racing it but i don't want to throw a bike away over something as "relatively" inexpensive as case covers

i know one person who drove out of state to race in a club that didn't require case covers, and he wiped out because of a oil spot that was not cleaned up. that can be a long drive back home

trust me the first time your weekend changes because of something out of your control, it will change your opinion of "i dont see what the big deal is". at the end of the day, this isn't a "cheap" sport. i believe it can be done less expensively but bike prep and safety gear is important to not only you but whoever is on the track with you.

i am still not opposed to the idea, and i know sunday at 4 isn't the best time, but i am just trying to point out that other people's weekend can be effected by putting street bikes on the track during a race weekend

[PremiumBlend]

I don't know what people are so scared about if a track has been cleaned properly.

don't get me wrong, i think our crew does an awesome job cleaning up oil. however, i don't want to take the time off work for travel and racing and spend the money on bikes and race fees to wipe out first thing in the morning because of oil from someone who didn't have case covers. let alone get hurt or destroy a bike. i am from the school of thought that if you are not willing to put it in the dumpster at the end of the weekend, then you shouldn't be racing it but i don't want to throw a bike away over something as "relatively" inexpensive as case covers

i know one person who drove out of state to race in a club that didn't require case covers, and he wiped out because of a oil spot that was not cleaned up. that can be a long drive back home

trust me the first time your weekend changes because of something out of your control, it will change your opinion of "i dont see what the big deal is". at the end of the day, this isn't a "cheap" sport. i believe it can be done less expensively but bike prep and safety gear is important to not only you but whoever is on the track with you.

i am still not opposed to the idea, and i know sunday at 4 isn't the best time, but i am just trying to point out that other people's weekend can be effected by putting street bikes on the track during a race weekend

I can see your point, and I can respect that... but have you ever watched the crews up at Bandimere clean up a spill when the Mile High Nationals are in town? It takes about 20 - 30 minutes and then bam, back to the action. These are 3000 horsepower cars running down the track, if there is even a small slick spot left out there they will go into the wall. So in 30 minutes these guys are back in action... in the event something DID happen @ the track we still have more than 12 hours to make sure that spot is good. And for extra added protection, early in the morning before everyone gets there go out with the propane tank and a huge flame and toast the track for about 5 minutes. That will burn off any excess oil, if that happened I'll ride right over the top of that oil slick without a doubt in my mind.

EDIT: Assuming the track day for street riders was at the end of a Saturday. After all races had stopped for the day. and I meant to say this idea was only for maybe 4 rounds out of the season... not every weekend would be structure like this.

[dave.gallant]

i am still not opposed to the idea, and i know sunday at 4 isn't the best time, but i am just trying to point out that other people's weekend can be effected by putting street bikes on the track during a race weekend

I will go so far as to say I will not bother showing up if street bikes are "racing" without case covers before my race. Same for antifreeze in the radiator.

The MRA has been doing this a long time. There is a specific reason case covers are required -- and shown year after after year. Those of us who have done this forever still pucker when we are the first race after the safety dry has been dusted over the entire racing line.

[chrobis]

I've wondered for quite some why we don't, (or each track doesn't), have a trailer with a generator, a carpet shampooer, and and wet/dry shop vac. Hell, add a heat gun. I wouldn't venture a guess as to how long it would take, but wouldn't we be be able to clean up just about anything with that?

[marty]

preemie i respect that you have a positive solution to almost everything, but like dave said, just the idea of oil or oil dry is not a comforting thought. keep the ideas flowing but some of your ideas will need some flexibility also

[marty]

back to ben's initial point, i am all in favor of going back to sunday races. if we are not racing in hastings anymore, leaving the track later shouldn't be such a big deal. we can always change it back when the club and its members are back on their feet.

[Scored51]

I like this idea a lot since practice is for cheaters anyway. Cram all the racing we can do (minus endurance) into one day and the family can't complain you didn't spend the weekend with them. Priceless.

Hypo Q: Would we be at the mercy of the track management as to whether Saturday would be an open practice, or would someone like Chicane need to have it organized? I can't remember when we would run only a single day schedule who was responsible for the fun on Saturday.

[PersianThunder]

Im pro this idea. I never got the chance to run the crazy one day schedule so its just my thoughts of it but as stated, family doesnt complain that you were gone all weekend... its not so much a FULL weekend adventure (as much as i love it). If it saves money for the club then ill deal with the shit show of all the races in one day. Would definatly be one hell of a day

[longrider]

I can answer a lot of the facts about the way one day events were done. First I probably should introduce myself for all the new members (anybody who signed up in the last 12 years ) My name is Paul Donaldson, I was on the board throughout the 80s, resigned in 88 or 89, got pulled back in to a staff position a couple years later and resigned for good in 95 or 96.

With the exception of a true 6 hr endurance race, all MRA events were one day. Once or twice early in the season there would be a new rider school combined with open practice the Saturday before the race and the Streets of Steamboat would have AHRMA races on Saturday. Any other Saturday was up to the track (there were no track day organizations back then)

It was a long day, sign up and tech would open at 6, practice was 7 to 10, races ran 10 to 12, lunch 12 to 1 and racing would usually finish up around 6. The race day ran a lot quicker, first call would go out about the time the previous race started, 3rd call would be at the white flag, and the warm up lap would be sent out when the back of the cool off lap was still in turn 6 or 7. If you ran back to back races you just skipped the warm up and went straight to the grid.

I would have to dig out old records that I hope I still have somewhere, but I dont think there are more classes now then there were back then so it should still be doable

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

As much as I hate to admit it, we may have no choice but to go back to one day events next year. We would save money on insurance, track rental, and turnworker/official pay.

As Paul pointed out, Sunday would be a very long day. We still do run the races essentially the same way as he mentions. One big reason things went faster is that we raced mostly at 2nd Creek & Mt. View where the track was A LOT shorter than HPR or Pueblo (Mt. View sprints were ~10 minutes). What was also different is that we held more multi-class races as 2nd and 3rd waves. But I digress...

And Chris is right in that we should leave the Sat practices up to someone else. The tough part of that will be asking the MRA crew (turnworkers, scoring, start/finish, tech, announcing) to do all of the setup/cleanup Sunday morning before anything gets going (at 7am?). (someone will suggest sharing workers, equip, setup w/the the other org, which is possible, but has it's own set of problems... another digression..)

Any racers wanting Saturday practice would deal with whatever conditions that track or other practice org provided. Not to say Ben's idea isn't a novel one, but CCS/ASRA does this where NESBA runs the before-raceday practices. Those of you who've practiced with NESBA can chime in, but if we do that, I'm sure it'll make MRA racers appreciate the "included with entry fee" practices we have now.

What I'm not supportive of is backing off on the racer training and bike/track safety preparation the MRA currently has in place. Those of us who remember shutting down La Junta for 2 hours from a full track oil line, or the Gene/Moriah incidents don't want to re-learn the importance rider training or adequate bike preparation.

A lot of what the MRA does might look like BS or red tape to people just coming into the club, but keep in mind that it represents years of accumulated experiences and missteps. A good way to come up with new suggestions is to first understand why things are they way they are then suggest changes, not the other way around.

[Mforza]

That 6h endurance sounds good
Why not run 6h endurance race on Saturday for licenced and non licenced racers? That's how they do it in Europe. They run all classes at the same time.
That way it will bring more people to the track and will be more interesting then reg. trackday.
And you will get your practice
Just an idea.

[Mforza]

Little more about the endurance.
Teams (3 riders)
Do short practice in the morning
the do qualifier (each team sends out 1 rider)
then start the race from 12-6.
Very popular in Europe. I think they have about 50-60 teams every race.
And that's just in Czech.
It atracts a lot of people that are not sure if they want to race or not.
And it will create more income for the club.

[dave.gallant]

We tried real endurance racing with the MRA in recent years. It was great fun.

Unfortunately, not enough people were interested to do it on a regular basis.

[oldtimer]

What I'm not supportive of is backing off on the racer training and bike/track safety preparation the MRA currently has in place. Those of us who remember shutting down La Junta for 2 hours from a full track oil line, or the Gene/Moriah incidents don't want to re-learn the importance rider training or adequate bike preparation.

A lot of what the MRA does might look like BS or red tape to people just coming into the club, but keep in mind that it represents years of accumulated experiences and missteps. A good way to come up with new suggestions is to first understand why things are they way they are then suggest changes, not the other way around.

Agreed. I'm all for getting creative but I'm concerned the club is going down the wrong path out of deperation. I'm not racing with non-licensed un-prepped riders, I'm concerned about both their safety and mine.

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

That 6h endurance sounds good
Why not run 6h endurance race on Saturday for licenced and non licenced racers?

We tried a 3 hour enduro a few years ago and 4 teams showed up. That was in much better economic times.

[longrider]

Martin, the only problem I see there is it could hurt turnout on Sunday. If a sprint racer wanted to try endurance the odds of racing sprints the next day are near zero. Your bike is tired, you are tired, etc.

[Mforza]

Well, that was just an idea
I do not see too much diferance between practce and the endurance.
During the race every rider from the team will do about 4 x 30min sesions.

[dave.gallant]

Martin, the only problem I see there is it could hurt turnout on Sunday. If a sprint racer wanted to try endurance the odds of racing sprints the next day are near zero. Your bike is tired, you are tired, etc.

Saturday endurance (real endurance), Sunday sprints is the formula WERA has been using successfully for many years now.