effen cheatin suzukis!

[dragos13]

Just for my own clarification, in the rulebook when a supersport bike is found to be illegal, what is the punishment? Do we have a list that can be chosen by the board like the AMA does? Does it just state, the club will decide the punishment based on what rider was caught? Or does it state that no matter what is illegal, it will result in lose of points. I just want to know as next year supersport will be my main class.

[Ashli]

[quote="The GECCO"]

Sugar coat it any way you want Prez. We know why Chris' protest was thrown out and how it got there.

Why would I give you that satisfaction? I'm not playing anymore games with this lovely reocurring situation. Also, it's not like you went indoors to have a private conversation with Chris, only about eight people heard the conversation. I didn't have to be there to get the skinny on what went down.

[Ashli]

Just for my own clarification, in the rulebook when a supersport bike is found to be illegal, what is the punishment? Do we have a list that can be chosen by the board like the AMA does? Does it just state, the club will decide the punishment based on what rider was caught? Or does it state that no matter what is illegal, it will result in lose of points. I just want to know as next year supersport will be my main class.

Section 13 - PENALTIES
A. Unless penalties are otherwise expressly provided for in this rule book, MRA
Officials may disqualify or suspend any rider for the remainder of the event for
any violation of the rules of competition, insubordination, or any other conduct
detrimental to the event. In addition, fines ranging from $25 to $1,000 may be
levied. Fined riders are barred from further competition pending payment of the
fine, unless there is an appeal in process.
B. Penalty for license applications, loan of license to another party, participation in
fraudulent use of credentials, including loaning of a license or associate
membership card(s) for gaining access to an event or for member discounts,
shall be cause for suspension of at least one year.
C. Upon entering a motorcycle in any MRA class, the rider is responsible for their
motorcycle meeting class requirements. If at any time the entered motorcycle is
found to be illegal for the entered class, the rider will forfeit points and monies
earned in that class for that day, and all points earned previously that year in that
same class.
D. Violations of technical and safety requirements judged by MRA Officials to
gain a performance advantage will result in the rider forfeiting points and
monies earned in that class for that day, and all points earned previously that
year in that same class. Violations judged to not result in a performance
advantage will results in fines and/or suspension.
E. Penalties assessed monetarily must be paid prior to participating in any MRA
sanctioned event, regardless of when the penalty was assessed.

[dragos13]

Thats exactly what I thought. Thanks Ashli!!!

[The GECCO]

Didn't have to go indoors for a private conversation since there wasn't anything to hide. Is anyone contradicting my version of the spirit of the conversation?

You've obviously got something to say, though you decided to edit your post after the fact. Don't hide behind snide accusations, come out and say it.

[Ashli]

Thats exactly what I thought. Thanks Ashli!!!

No problem babe.

Glenn, honestly if you don't know what I'm talking about then don't even worry about it, I'm not throwing anyone under the bus. As for your "spirit" of the conversation, whatever that means, no one contradicted anything. If you think that what you said was valid, then think that. Everyone can have their own opinion of it. As for my opinion you were completely out of line. End of story.

[jenners225]

I'll chime in..... as I was present for the conversation and the way the situation was approached it came off as is if Weed was doing something wrong by protesting an illegal part found on a motorcycle instead of the rider who was actually found with the illegal part.

I will say also that the term "this is club level racing" was used in a way to almost condone cheating. IMO

[benfoxmra95]

Please read:

http://forums.mra-racing.org/viewtopic.php?t=7004


Taken from our 2008 rule book:

Section 2.2

Supersport motorcycles must meet the following requirements in addtion to the requirements in Section 5 - Technical and Safety Requirements. Only the modifications listed in this section are permitted. No other changes from showroom stock will be allowed. Abosolutelty no updating or backdating of parts will be allowed unless specified by the rules. All motorcycles must display vehicle identification number on the main frame.

A welded on swingarm?....modified geometry of the frame?

Does this bike totally comply?

Weed Im not trying to start shit here, not at all. But you guys want to follow the rule book to the "T" then I'd consider your mods to be out of the Supersport rules and you yourself are racing a illegal bike.

[JimWilson29]

[Tumbleweed]

Good point Ben,
Actually the swingarm that was welded had a crack in the original weld on the left side of the swingarm. Tony rewelded the swingarm in the exact spot of the original weld, then straightened the swingarm and frame to the original specs from the factory. Nothing has been added or modified. Therefore it is still SS legal.

[dave.gallant]

( this is my own personal opinion btw, so read it as that )

So, kick them both out for crying out loud!

Either make Supersport into Superbike or kick everyone out who can't follow the damn rulebook and start fresh.

Yup - this is only club racing. If a racer loses "points", they just lost some "points"!. Your manhood or your ability to pay your mortgage wasn't questioned, so stop the damn whining and prepare a motorcycle that is actually legal for the class.

( And don't even try to tell me that your ability to procure parts or services from your sponsors is somehow in jeopardy because you lost your "points". If your bike was legal for the class you were racing in, you would not have lost your points in the first place, and the actual 10% discount you get on parts will still be there. )

And, if you want to protest someone, do it. Again, and again, and again. If more people did this, we wouldn't have these damn problems in the first place.

[dave.gallant]

Good point Ben,
Actually the swingarm that was welded had a crack in the original weld on the left side of the swingarm. Tony rewelded the swingarm in the exact spot of the original weld, then straightened the swingarm and frame to the original specs from the factory. Nothing has been added or modified. Therefore it is still SS legal.

New swingarm for a 2006+ GSXR6/750 can be had for $50 at D2 cycles.

Buy one, then tell people questioning the bikes legality to kiss your left shoe.

[The GECCO]

Well, it wasn't intended to infer that we condone cheating.

For the record - the protest was received and discussed. The other rider was informed that he had been protested and that he had been disqualified from the event. It wasn't until about 15 minutes after that that another board member brought up the fact that the protest wasn't filed properly. Based on that, the decision was reversed.

Ray and I went to explain to Chris why his protest wasn't being upheld. In the course of the conversation is when it was determined that at least part of the reason for the protest was hurt feelings over events that took place last season. If someone protests because they want fair racing, fine. But using the rulebook to single someone out and exact revenge because of past events just doesn't sit right with me. The MOTIVATION behind the protest is what I took personal issue with, not the fact that it had been filed in the first place. But my personal feelings about it didn't factor into the reversal decision for two reasons 1) the decision had already been made, and 2) it wasn't my decision to make, it was Ray's.

[Tumbleweed]

Thanks Dave, Will do.

[bluedevil]

I have chosen to stay politically correct and not say anything on this topic. Basically like the majority of the folks who do agree with Chris yet have also not yet grown a pair to speak up about it. The simple fact is this. When the protest was made at the last round, it did not include the page number and rule number of the infraction and by default was deemed an invalid protest. This despite each member of the impromptu board meeting starring at the infraction with their own eyes. Granted, the protest was done in a hurry and lacked 1 vital piece of info also stated in the rule book as needed to be valid. Ok cool. Protest thrown out and rider again gets by with no infraction. Here is where the situation went aria. What should have happened is VP of Tech and Rules (The guy we PAY to handle just such situations), approaches the person who made the protest and states simply: “Your protest was deemed invalid for XYZ reason. Any questions?” Situation closed. At this point a can of “whoop a$$” so to speak was opened up on Chris for being the voice of honesty and ethics. (But not by the VP of rules and tech, the very person in charge of this very situation). As far as your interpretation of he "motivation" for the protest: It couldnt have been the 3rd infraction or(bending of the rules) by the same rider in 2 consecutive years that had anything to do with the singling out of the protest could it?. I would ask how many protests of the same rider does it take before the club starts asking that rider if they can provide a copy of the rule book to them????
Im not sure why Chris or any other rider who makes a protest is made out to be a cry baby, or only cries cause he cant beat X rider, when they should be looked on as a person who looks for fairness and someone who follows the rules. (Side bar X rider has beaten Y rider on a lower CC bike as well has also been beaten)

Now none of this is the major concern to me here, though I know it is to others. A few key issues that come to light here for me . “Fun is the only reason anyone should be doing this because there isn't anyone doing it to pay their mortgage”

Yes however one key thing is missed. Even if you don’t ever win a freekin dollar racing, it doesnt matter. I know Chris spends 15-25K a year to race. I have personally spent roughly 60K in 5 years of racing, and won less than 6K in all of that time. None the less my mortgage is roughly 66K in that time frame. By default some racers spend near or more than they do on a mortgage to participate in this club. Each time a cheating, or illegal parts are allowed, condoned, or encouraged in this club, you take a big ole crap on the time spent that the honest racer took to make all that money to participate. The time away from their family and pregnant wife working 16+ hours a day to afford to race in a club that crucifies him for playing fair . This is all discounted by allowing cheating to continue. By simply side stepping responsibility of each member to step up and do what they can to have a fair, non partial race that ultimately ends up in an awfully high amount of “fun”. On a side note I remember a really big 4 ft wide check presented to Brewer in 2005 of which was for more than my mortgage is in nearly an entire year)


Secondly after the a$$ whoopin is handed out you have smug folks coming over to gloat as to say nanny nanny boo boo “Well that didn’t work out so well did it?” (This one for which I WAS present for.) Are you kidding me? Another rule broken with no penalty and that is something to grin about and rub in the face of the protestor? Not even jokingly was that considered “cool”. What happened was another chip in the foundation of the integrity of our racers and club.

Don’t get me wrong, I love racing, I love this club, and I love its members (most of them) in fact some of which I have the up most admiration and respect for participating in this very discussion, none the less, quit being a Candy A$$ Jabronie and start handing out some a$$ whoppin’s to the cheaters and for the politically correct folks who have trouble with that word (the folks who have parts/ mods that are not what we would say legal” for SS competition). Time to start getting the words “MRA” and “cheater club” out of people’s mouths, cause Im just plain sick of hearing about it.

Lastly, It is due to these recent events, I have chosen to with draw from any remaining Super sport races in the MRA for the remainder of the season or until we can turn the table on this issue to one that is more discouraging of cheating, that it is encouraging.
It is my love of racing and this club, and my apparent priority over my mortgage payment that I will only participate in Superbike regulated classes from this point forward, despite only being a pipe, power commander, (and my illegal onboard MotoComm video system) racer………. See ya at Pueblo !!!

[Ashli]

Well, it wasn't intended to infer that we condone cheating.

For the record - the protest was received and discussed. The other rider was informed that he had been protested and that he had been disqualified from the event. It wasn't until about 15 minutes after that that another board member brought up the fact that the protest wasn't filed properly. Based on that, the decision was reversed.

Ray and I went to explain to Chris why his protest wasn't being upheld. In the course of the conversation is when it was determined that at least part of the reason for the protest was hurt feelings over events that took place last season. If someone protests because they want fair racing, fine. But using the rulebook to single someone out and exact revenge because of past events just doesn't sit right with me. The MOTIVATION behind the protest is what I took personal issue with, not the fact that it had been filed in the first place. But my personal feelings about it didn't factor into the reversal decision for two reasons 1) the decision had already been made, and 2) it wasn't my decision to make, it was Ray's.

Thanks for saying it for me Glenn. So yeah, this "board member"
brought that to your attention and it was overturned. So you can follow protesting rules but not your own rules from the MRA Rulebook? Wow.

Who the hell cares if you think it's a personal issue, it's cheating is it not? It was an illegal part on the bike. So once again you guys took it in your own hands and decided for yourselves that it was an act of "revenge" and found a reason to get rid of his protest.

[jenners225]

I have chosen to stay politically correct and not say anything on this topic. Basically like the majority of the folks who do agree with Chris yet have also not yet grown a pair to speak up about it. The simple fact is this. When the protest was made at the last round, it did not include the page number and rule number of the infraction and by default was deemed an invalid protest. This despite each member of the impromptu board meeting starring at the infraction with their own eyes. Granted, the protest was done in a hurry and lacked 1 vital piece of info also stated in the rule book as needed to be valid. Ok cool. Protest thrown out and rider again gets by with no infraction. Here is where the situation went aria. What should have happened is VP of Tech and Rules (The guy we PAY to handle just such situations), approaches the person who made the protest and states simply: “Your protest was deemed invalid for XYZ reason. Any questions?” Situation closed. At this point a can of “whoop a$$” so to speak was opened up on Chris for being the voice of honesty and ethics. (But not by the VP of rules and tech, the very person in charge of this very situation). As far as your interpretation of he "motivation" for the protest: It couldnt have been the 3rd infraction or(bending of the rules) by the same rider in 2 consecutive years that had anything to do with the singling out of the protest could it?. I would ask how many protests of the same rider does it take before the club starts asking that rider if they can provide a copy of the rule book to them????
Im not sure why Chris or any other rider who makes a protest is made out to be a cry baby, or only cries cause he cant beat X rider, when they should be looked on as a person who looks for fairness and someone who follows the rules. (Side bar X rider has beaten Y rider on a lower CC bike as well has also been beaten)

Now none of this is the major concern to me here, though I know it is to others. A few key issues that come to light here for me . “Fun is the only reason anyone should be doing this because there isn't anyone doing it to pay their mortgage”

Yes however one key thing is missed. Even if you don’t ever win a freekin dollar racing, it doesnt matter. I know Chris spends 15-25K a year to race. I have personally spent roughly 60K in 5 years of racing, and won less than 6K in all of that time. None the less my mortgage is roughly 66K in that time frame. By default some racers spend near or more than they do on a mortgage to participate in this club. Each time a cheating, or illegal parts are allowed, condoned, or encouraged in this club, you take a big ole crap on the time spent that the honest racer took to make all that money to participate. The time away from their family and pregnant wife working 16+ hours a day to afford to race in a club that crucifies him for playing fair . This is all discounted by allowing cheating to continue. By simply side stepping responsibility of each member to step up and do what they can to have a fair, non partial race that ultimately ends up in an awfully high amount of “fun”. On a side note I remember a really big 4 ft wide check presented to Brewer in 2005 of which was for more than my mortgage is in nearly an entire year)


Secondly after the a$$ whoopin is handed out you have smug folks coming over to gloat as to say nanny nanny boo boo “Well that didn’t work out so well did it?” (This one for which I WAS present for.) Are you kidding me? Another rule broken with no penalty and that is something to grin about and rub in the face of the protestor? Not even jokingly was that considered “cool”. What happened was another chip in the foundation of the integrity of our racers and club.

Don’t get me wrong, I love racing, I love this club, and I love its members (most of them) in fact some of which I have the up most admiration and respect for participating in this very discussion, none the less, quit being a Candy A$$ Jabronie and start handing out some a$$ whoppin’s to the cheaters and for the politically correct folks who have trouble with that word (the folks who have parts/ mods that are not what we would say legal” for SS competition). Time to start getting the words “MRA” and “cheater club” out of people’s mouths, cause Im just plain sick of hearing about it.

Lastly, It is due to these recent events, I have chosen to with draw from any remaining Super sport races in the MRA for the remainder of the season or until we can turn the table on this issue to one that is more discouraging of cheating, that it is encouraging.
It is my love of racing and this club, and my apparent priority over my mortgage payment that I will only participate in Superbike regulated classes from this point forward, despite only being a pipe, power commander, (and my illegal onboard MotoComm video system) racer………. See ya at Pueblo !!!

=D>

[trophywife626]

Ray and I went to explain to Chris why his protest wasn't being upheld. In the course of the conversation is when it was determined that at least part of the reason for the protest was hurt feelings over events that took place last season. If someone protests because they want fair racing, fine. But using the rulebook to single someone out and exact revenge because of past events just doesn't sit right with me. The MOTIVATION behind the protest is what I took personal issue with, not the fact that it had been filed in the first place. But my personal feelings about it didn't factor into the reversal decision for two reasons 1) the decision had already been made, and 2) it wasn't my decision to make, it was Ray's.

The reason for the protest was not about "hurt feelings" and had nothing to do with "revenge". The protest was made in hopes that the particular rider, who had previously (and on more than one occasion) been in violation of the rules, would be punished according to the rulebook, as he should have been. Props to him for actually utilizing the rulebook for once and finding a loophole regarding the way the protest was filed to get him out of a violation. Unfortunately, although many people agree with the position Chris has taken with the issue(s), Chris becomes the bad guy for actually calling someone out instead of shrugging it off and avoiding confrontation.

[trophywife626]

WELL SAID DION!!! =D>

[Clarkie]

So I'm guessing my t-shirt with 'Cheater' and a huge arrow underneath it (pointing left or right not straight up ) isnt going to cut it as a legal protest now?

Dammit I got it made up for nothing! :lol:

[Racing616]

I say we (read=the club) pay King Clarkie (or Faster!, I think their dyno is mobile) to bring his dyno out to the track (someone else can run it), and set appropriate HP limits for the top five in Super Sport races....all bikes lined up one at a time, and run them after the race with the tech inspector there. End this whole rules enforcement debacle properly.

[Clarkie]

while I like the idea, as you know with your dyno small things can effect the final reading, temp, humidity, tire brand etc. This is why the factories dont want to play in the dyno classes, my bike can gain or lose 10-15hp depending on the day/tire/position on the roller/how tight it is strapped down etc.

For example, an 06-08 R6 will gain or lose 5-6hp depending on if you strap it down or not, that's 5% gain......well not really but i could make a 600 'lose' 5hp on the dyno. Some shops will even do the 'before' dyno runs without strapping the bike down and then do the 'final' run with the bike strapped down like a mofo so it looks like they gained more than they really did :lol:

With a lot of my MRA customers I have told them to bring a 'dyno tire' which is usually just a hard as shit street tire, every time they come back to the dyno they use the same tire at the same pressure, heck even a different compound tire will read diferently.

It would be kinda cool to bring the dyno down just for some fun, we could run a pool to see who thinks who has the highest hp 600/750/1000/twins etc, I think a lot of people may be surprised how fast some people are going on some slow bikes :wink:

It's like the stock CBR600RR I raced against Josh at Miller last weekend, even Josh was laughing at how slow it was compared to his R6........... but he ended up having to have his nails painted by his girls so maybe the 'slow' bike wasnt that bad afterall........... or maybe it was the fear of the girls getting to put makeup on me that made me go so fast :lol: Yup racing with the Graham family is so much fun, the look on Pat's face when he saw the nails was priceless

Sorry where was I..... Dam Suzuki's/Cheaters/etc/blah blah blah

[cromer611]

what about a 50cc pit bike dyno shootout? my zuma might blow up though.

cheater suzukis---- QQ more plz

[sheispoison]

For example, an 06-08 R6 will gain or lose 5-6hp depending on if you strap it down or not, that's 5% gain......well not really but i could make a 600 'lose' 5hp on the dyno

Wouldn't that make it more fair? All top 5 bikes strapped the same and on the tire they just came off the track on? I'm sure it'd be a pain in the arse, but it seems the one sure fire way to level the playing field in supersport.
carl

[Racing616]

Aaron, I understand how dyno tuners/shops can make different reads on a dyno, and this point ic completely valid and worth looking at, but there is a series in Canada and two in the USA who have been doing this for a few years now, with great consistency. I think we could mirror their setup, and make it work.

In direct answer to the change of a dyno, bring a control bike. One of the big Japanese shops could donate the MRA a "dyno mule" BONE STOCK motorbike, and it is at every race. From race to race, whatever the percentage that it is off of the control number can be applied to the top five supersport racers.