(giovannir6 wrote)(Crash wrote) OK, here is what I was saying. First, I was not attacking the novices that have just moved up to expert but the fact is that some novices don't have the same amount of experience as some of the experts. Some novices have more, it kind of goes both ways. It's not that you don't practice or that you will be too cheap to practice. All I am saying is that if you racing on Saturdays in the SS classes that practice should be a part of signing up for those races. If you are not racing in Saturdays SS races then you should pay for practice. That seems pretty simple and make it much more like a Sunday schedule.Originally Posted by dragos13
(giovannir6 wrote) Being a novice that just moved up to expert, I would like to ask something about your post: Are you assuming that novice racers will be a danger to you because we dont practice and wont know the new layout? Or, is it that you think we will be too cheap to pay for the practice, get out there and not know whats going on? How are we going to be more of a danger just because the club (as they have always done) is going to charge $50 for saturday practice?
(giovannir6 wrote) Like you also said, most novices didn't even come out on saturdays. This would mean they would still be a danger Sunday as well. Maybe I'm just not following the logic behind this comment.
(Crash wrote) Also, I didn't say that most novices don't show up on Saturday. In fact, I think a lot of novice racers show up on Saturday and I think that is awesome. But, as a novice rider, under last years schedule you could show up Sunday morning, practice for free, race in four or five races (if you have a 600) and go home. That option does not exist any more and now to race on Saturday in sprint races you have to pay to practice. I hope that clarifies what I was trying to say.
(Crash wrote) To Glenn or any other board member.
clowe wrote:
First question for the board, is one of the reason we have practice on Sunday morning for safety?
(Glenn wrote) I suppose the argument could be made that having practice makes racing safer, but IMO it isn't a driving factor behind having Sunday morning practice.
(Crash wrote) OK, so what is the driving factor behind Sunday morning practice? Why does that not apply to Saturday morning practice for Saturday racers?
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Second question for the board, did we make this schedule change at all to help racing to be more affordable, bring new racers in and hopefully grow the club?
(Glenn wrote) The main drivers behind these changes were to use our time on Saturday more efficiently by spreading the classes out more. The way they are now arranged does three things 1) it lessens tire swaps from slicks to DOT's for SS racers 2) it allows current riders to enter more classes without having multiple back-to-back races 3) it will get us out of the track and on the road home earlier on Sunday
(Crash wrote) So am I to understand from your answer to my second question that cost was not a consideration when making the schedule change?
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Last question for the board, can the members please see the hard number (that I know we have) about who practiced and raced endurance on Saturday vs. who raced on Sunday?
(Glenn wrote) It isn't as easy as just pressing a button and having the number pop up. If you would like access to the records to determine this let me know and we can work something out.
(Crash wrote) About the hard numbers, it would be great to see an average of Saturday practice sign ups compared to endurance sign ups to Sunday race sign ups. Could you provide that for me at some point?
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Let me paint a picture, you are on the grid for the mwss race, there are 30 bikes behind you and only half of them have been out of the track and have seen the new turn 10 at Pueblo. It is the first race of the year and every novice who moved up from last year is just itching to show you how fast they are. Does this scare anyone? Does this sound very safe. To the board this issue does effect me and I am at a loss here.
(Glenn wrote) What makes you think only half of the grid will have seen the new turn 10?
(Crash wrote) Glenn, if they don't practice they will not have go through the new turn 10 at speed. I know everyone will pay for practice just like I know everyone would buy raintires if you allowed them in SS. I am just looking for some consistency on cost from the club. When it comes to SS, some things are not acceptable expenses and some are. My point here is the same as before, consistency to the members.
Glenn, do we know it is the "majority" of Novice riders. I come back to the numbers. Also, in the past a novice racer could show up Sunday morning, practice for free, racing in four races and go home. Now, that is no longer possible and the expense is greater. I still think this will not grow your shrinking club.
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Glenn, you also asked this, "Why should those same people now get free practice (and the club lose the revenues) simply because some of their classes have been moved to Saturday?" The very simple answer is because they did not have a choice in the matter. The board made the call to change the schedue, not the members. This person used to get practice for free, why should we now charge them? That is not making racing more affordable.
(Glenn wrote) Again, we are talking about the majority here. While I don't have the numbers, simply looking at the track on Saturday morning will tell anyone that MOST people are out there anyway. So, if a rider voluntarily paid for Saturday practice in 2007, I don't see how they can argue that they deserve free practice in 2008 just because we re-arranged the schedule.
(Crash wrote) They do deserve free practice because now they are racing as though it was a Sunday with sprint races. I am not saying that everyone should get practice for free on Saturday. But those racing in the SS races should get practice. Maybe they just get one or two sessions and not all four. I just think that if they are signing up for races on Saturday that some practice or warm-up should be included.
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Also, everyone knows that I brought up rain tires for SS many times. The board and rules committee has always said that allowing rain tires would drive up cost for SS racers. The board said that all racers would feel they needed to go and buy a $350 set of tires. But now all SS racers are going to feel the need to go and buy $450 worth of practice. Again, I'm not as smart as Tony and my math is not adding up.
(Glenn wrote) You campaigned for rain tires on the basis of it being a safety issue. It is not. Racing in the rain with rain tires allows you go faster, it does not make it safer. And, again, that "$450 worth of practice" is not a NEW expense for most of the riders, because they are already participating.
(Crash wrote) My campaign for rain tires was not just for safety though that was part of it. It was for better racing which is good for the club and good for the sport. I was shot down because of the $$$ that go with buying rain tires. I was shot down because they said that everyone would then need to buy them and it would be unfair for the club to make everyone do that. BUT, now all SS riders have to pay for practice.
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AND, why did we have endurance practice in the past Was it because the board felt if might be a little safer if the racers got to see the track and do a few laps before they went out in anger?
(Glenn wrote) Because the original (and current) reason for creating the endurance races was to raise money. This is why, to this day, NO ONE gets comped endurance racing. We knew that if someone was in a position of having to choose between paying for practice in the morning and running endurance (w/o any practice available) that most would not sign up for endurance. So, the "endurance racers only" practice sessions were added.
(Crash wrote) Regarding endurance practice, who does the the same not apply for people racing in SS?
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So, I think this is about all I have to say. I think if people sign up for races on Saturday then practice should be apart of that. If people just want to practice then they pay for practice, that seems pretty simple to me.
(Glenn wrote) I disagree. Why should someone who doesn't own a bike that is legal for any of the Saturday classes be required to pay for something that another rider else gets for free because he owns a different bike?
(Crash wrote) I think I will use the board's logic when I say that that rider made a choice to buy a bike that is not legal from racing on Saturday.
Ok, I will shut up and I will try and leave that as all I have on the matter.
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