Slicks vs. DOT Race tires

[spideyrdr]

Hi all,

A little background: I ran Dunlop Q2's all last season except for one round. Since I was doing primarily endurance, this was a great tire for me - 2 sets got me through last season and I had confidence to ride harder than I have in my life.

I am planning to run NovU and O this year and while I have every belief I could run the Q2's, I am going to step up and run Dunlop race rubber. Steve from RTS pointed out that they are selling US-made Dunlop KR449 / KR448F sets for the same price as the D211 GP-A sets, and this got me wondering if I should run slicks. I may get back in touch with Steve about this, but wanted to first get feedback from the smart racers in our club first.

(sorry about all the background - might have had too much coffee this morning)

Why would I NOT want to run slicks? They are legal in Nov, right? Are they harder to get up to temp on warmers (aka you need 1000W warmers on the front and the rear to get them heated)? Do they wear faster or slower than race DOT's? I read positive things about these new Dunlops, but there could be a learning curve. As a medium paced novice, would I either a) not be able to benefit from the slick tire technology or b) have trouble on them because mere mortals (I mean novices) don't have the ability to ride them hard enough to keep them up to temp?

Any feedback would be appreciated!

Cheers,
Jamie

[Slo]

subscribed....

[JimWilson29]

Why would I NOT want to run slicks? They are legal in Nov, right? Are they harder to get up to temp on warmers (aka you need 1000W warmers on the front and the rear to get them heated)? Do they wear faster or slower than race DOT's? I read positive things about these new Dunlops, but there could be a learning curve. As a medium paced novice, would I either a) not be able to benefit from the slick tire technology or b) have trouble on them because mere mortals (I mean novices) don't have the ability to ride them hard enough to keep them up to temp?

Any feedback would be appreciated!

Cheers,
Jamie

Slicks are legal in Novice, Amateur and Endurance, which would be the classes you are eligible to run. When you move to expert and decide to run Supersport classes, you will be required to run DOT tires. Regarding your questions about getting them up to temperature and the wear, ask Steve at RTS. My own personal experience is that slicks last longer and offered more side grip, but I have run 16.5"s since 2004 and this will be my first year back on 17"s. I don't see any reason why you wouldnt benefit from running these tires.

[Bueller999]

The only real disadvantage is they can't be sold as takeoffs to the street crowd of used on your own street bike.

[Sol Performance]

Hey Jamie, This is a semi dynamic question and I will try to lay out the answers you are looking for in a simple way.

Intially,.let's compare a slick and a DOT of the SAME COMPOUND.

First let's look at DOTs:
-The defining factor that classifies a tire as a DOT is that the overall surface area needs to have a void of 25% or more than that of a slick tire. This is the tread pattern you see that each brand/model has (plus other underlying factors). Where the void are placed is up to the manufacturer. (Notice that most continual rubber is on the sides of the tire.)
So this means that less surface area (on average) will be on the track with a DOT than a slick.
-The void of rubber that the tread pattern creates also leaves less mass on a DOT tire compared to a slick. (you would think it should be 25% less or more because that's wants missing from the overall surface area but that not true because those tread patterns don't extend all the way beyond the carcass.) However, the less material (rubber) and mass makes the DOT a lot easier to heat up and to cool down. Think of warming up and cooling down a peice of aluminum foil as opposed to a brick. So this means that a DOT has a much wider range of a usable temperature window.

As for the slick:
The inverse is true.
-Has more grip than a DOT
-smaller usable temperature window.
- You would think that since the slick has more rubber all the way around the tire that it would therefore last longer. While that is true.. some manufacturers know that the added rubber that a slick has makes it heavier as well and thus remove some of that rubber from the start and the slick might actually have less tread depth than the DOT counterpart. (I know.. never easy)

So knowing what you do now.. what about the different compounds between the two choices. Well, again it remains very dynamic. I have put riders on two completely different tires in the same weekend.
To put it simple I gave him a hard DOT for an endurance race and then a sift slick for the Sprint.
I am sure you can figure out why from the explanation above. But if you would like to discuss more please feel free to contact me.
Sorry for any typos... hard to write on my phone.

[KFinn]

Sorry for any typos... hard to write on my phone.

Holy Crap! For phone typing that is a lot!!!

[Fastt Racing]

Geez Oscar you actually know a couple things about tires! This is a slightly loaded sales pitch from me I know. I ran the Michelin Slick 120/180 tires in Novice last year. and went pretty good on them. The Michelin slicks seemed to be very temp and wear consistent tires even in a fairly wide band of conditions especially for a slick, but they no longer make those. They have changed to a little different casing/compound config for their slick and only offer them in 120/190 as slicks, which I wouldn't use on my 600. The pirelli DOT tires are legal in Supersport and come with the best local trackside support out there. Period. These are the tires I'm running this year, and so far our team testing has shown good wear results, and I will have a little more feel/grip feedback after another test day. The price and support are great, so hard to go wrong with the Pirellis. If you plan on running Supersport soon, you may want to consider that as Jim pointed out. Good Luck.

[spideyrdr]

Thanks everyone for the responses! Especially Oscar "I type like a boss on my phone" Solis! Oscar, you know how timid I have been about my tire choice, so I appreciate you going out of your way to give me some tips.

I guess this all underscores how there are pros and cons to any tire even within the same brand. I might have to do more homework, but I appreciate the feedback. Jim, I will put in a call with Steve if I need more temp info. Thanks!

Jamie

[spideyrdr]

They have changed to a little different casing/compound config for their slick and only offer them in 120/190 as slicks, which I wouldn't use on my 600.

Hey Dennis, would the 190 rear not fit? The 190 Dunlop fit fine on my R6, but I think my pitmate had issues with the Michelin 190 on his CBR600. Just curious if you know the 190 didn't fit on your Triumph or if there was something else that steered you away from them?

[jeff healy]

Geez Dennis I worked so hard to be the best tire guy last year changing tires for u five minutes before your races and such And now no love! Just bustin your chops I don't know if Oscar knows what hes getting into with you :twisted:

[oldtimer]

Good news is stepping up from a track day tire you should have fun with the race compounds in either DOTs or slicks.

[Fastt Racing]

I specified Local. Jeff Healy is from Canada, and is one of the coolest dudes at the track. I know he is gonna do a good job with tires, but his slicks don't fit on my bike. What are you talking about Jeff. You only changed out my front once, and my rear like three times all year once they finally started showing the cords, LOL. I know I'm kind of a Rookie Michelin Mafia sellout ops:

[jeff healy]

haha yeah I guess I am only 40 miles from canada eh I coulda sworn we flipped that rear tire a good 10 or 20 times lol

[ZiaThunder]

.... I know he is gonna do a good job with tires, but his slicks don't fit on my bike. ...

Dennis, how is that possible, a 190 fits just fine on my 675. Is there something you changed on yours? I'd like to know so I don't do that.

[137]

[quote="UglyDogRacing"]

My own personal experience is that slicks last longer and offered more side grip, but I have run 16.5"s since 2004 and this will be my first year back on 17"s. I don't see any reason why you wouldnt benefit from running these tires.

I'm curious Jim. Why switch from 16.5's? Tires harder to find? No more development? 17's just plain better now?

I only ask because I'm contemplating putting 16.5's on my 1098.

TIA

S.

[JimWilson29]

I'm curious Jim. Why switch from 16.5's? Tires harder to find? No more development? 17's just plain better now?

I only ask because I'm contemplating putting 16.5's on my 1098.

TIA

S.

Yes, Yes, can't answer if they are better yet. And another factor is the price. They are significantly more expensive.

[Fastt Racing]

The Michelin 190 slick, rubs my chain, and is a little taller, which sacrifices a little too much swing arm angle without having the bike sit high. Then I have to raise the front, and the trail is a little much mid corner. Then I don't have big enough balls to get back to the gas quick enough or hard enough leaving the corner for my little bone stock 104 hp to be worth a crap down the straight, hahaha. Some of this is a little speculation or joking, but the 180's do work really well in general. Hope to see you soon Kim!

[jeff healy]

The Michelin 190 slick, rubs my chain,

It's a built in chain warmer

[rybo]

The Michelin 190 slick, rubs my chain, and is a little taller, which sacrifices a little too much swing arm angle without having the bike sit high. Then I have to raise the front, and the trail is a little much mid corner. Then I don't have big enough balls to get back to the gas quick enough or hard enough leaving the corner for my little bone stock 104 hp to be worth a crap down the straight, hahaha. Some of this is a little speculation or joking, but the 180's do work really well in general. Hope to see you soon Kim!

That and the 190 slick is slightly taller than the 190 DOT- which may explain the difference that you and Kim are experiencing.