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Thread: The moral dilemma with cheating....

  1. #51
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    Very interesting topic!

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkie
    Trust me, every club has suffered from 'the old boys club' where if you know the right people things will get overlooked, the MRA in the past was no exception to this.
    =D> =D> =D>

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkie
    At the end of the day people cheat, other racers who arent cheating walk away from the sport because they are sick of the cheating.
    Well put!
    MRA #731
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Blue
    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkie
    At the end of the day people cheat, other racers who arent cheating walk away from the sport because they are sick of the cheating.
    Well put!
    So thinking about the big picture and putting this topic and the other current one together.....

    Seems like maybe one effort is to try to reduce this since obviously fix it completely is impossible.

    If racers leave because its expensive and others leave because of cheating, and no one protests possible cheaters due to the cost of the fee, then is there a way to reduce the cost to protest where the accused can still afford to get the bike assembled but the accuser can afford the risk?
    Kevin #28

    '07 Yamaha R6

  3. #53
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    Kev the protest fees are way below the expense of rebuilding after a tear down, not sure if you are getting this, you are only out your protest fee if the protested is found legal so if you are sure you will incur no expenses. Course you need to be sure and there in is the rub, for instanse many people came to me sure you were cheating because you got so much faster than last year and I am pretty sure you are not cheating
    Galster beat all our asses last year on a clapped out ZX6 so while some think that cheating is rampant most of it is just some getting out raced plain and simple but some can't see or believe that so it must be cheating.
    Said it before and I will say it again all our classes need on some level to be self policing, even if you don't want to do a formal protest tell me what you think. I can't be everywhere all the time so if you see something even if it is Tony Ross speeding thru the pits tell any of us board members so we can at least look at it.
    On a side note I will be checking for fire extinguishers so have yours out or get busted. :lol:

  4. #54
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    Oh I understand it clearly. I have read the rule book! But to me, I am out there racing my ass of to have fun and wouldn't know if someone was cheating or out racing me. Hence why i stated it as a 'risk' to be the accuser.
    Kevin #28

    '07 Yamaha R6

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by KFinn
    Oh I understand it clearly. I have read the rule book! But to me, I am out there racing my ass of to have fun and wouldn't know if someone was cheating or out racing me. Hence why i stated it as a 'risk' to be the accuser.
    if you see a bike with number 913 on the track or getting pushed through the pits, it's a cheater bike.
    MRA #29

  6. #56
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    We are currently watching that 913 guy for sure and will swing down the hammer soon, should be fun when I do as well maybe I can get Bob to meatball him in am after he runs over someone else. :lol: I have video of the incident and as much as I hate to admit it it was not Tonys fault, if I knew how I would post it up.
    Anywho let the cheating resume as normal. :twisted:

  7. #57
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    I think it's cheating of Dalton doesn't have to start facing backwards from pit lane in open SS!! )

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris fuller
    I think it's cheating of Dalton doesn't have to start facing backwards from pit lane in open SS!! )
    I agree!!!
    Louis J Ortiz Jr.
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  9. #59
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    Instead of forcing guys to go find the highly restrictive snorkels - likely not too hard to find as probly anyone with a 250 in CO has pulled it - and since we are racing at a mile high - any chance we make it simple and all pull our snorkels? Im sure it wont make me faster - LOL - but seems reasonable solution for this class in CO.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamper11
    Instead of forcing guys to go find the highly restrictive snorkels - likely not too hard to find as probly anyone with a 250 in CO has pulled it - and since we are racing at a mile high - any chance we make it simple and all pull our snorkels? Im sure it wont make me faster - LOL - but seems reasonable solution for this class in CO.
    Bart is looking into this. We can get the snorkels for about $26 each.

    That said, since many don't have them (and none that came from Cali had them) it may be reasonable to simply change the rule.
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  11. #61
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    My perspective is simply have the rest of us pull ours - sell em to you'z guys that didnt have em - and call it even for the rest of the season...

    seriously - seems easier for the rest of us to pull em than have everyone else find em and buy em - especially if for rule change next year - it passes that the snorkel is not required.

    +1 for the rule change

  12. #62
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    As one of the 250's that need a snorkel....I am not sure letting everyone remove theirs is a good idea.

    From what i understand, having the snorkel doesn't really affect performance of an unmodified engine but will allow gains if someone were to modify the engine.

    If this is true, then keeping it on will limit the "hard to find" modifications...especially if the mods aren't effective because of it.

    On the other hand...I am not looking forward to trying to get that thing on there once I get one (got a wanted add on Craig's lists already).

    $.02

  13. #63
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    Guys,

    I'm going to get in touch with the class sponsor (MotoAdventure Kawasaki) and see if I can get good pricing on the part for those that need it.

    They're closed today, but should be open tomorrow.

    According to Bike Bandit they are available separately and cost about $25 each.

    I'll post about it here when I have more info:

    Scott
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  14. #64
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    If MR Diehl's post is correct - than likely best we do keep the snork's in

    MKD - when I installed mine - it wasnt that bad - throw some soapy water on the seal and it will go back in much easier

  15. #65
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    That's weird, I thought they were mentioned in the rule book. Shouldn't everyone have known about them? It only takes about 12 seconds to check if a bike has one. How ironic that this happens while this thread is posted.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamper11
    If MR Diehl's post is correct - than likely best we do keep the snork's in

    MKD - when I installed mine - it wasnt that bad - throw some soapy water on the seal and it will go back in much easier
    Opening up the airflow will always allow for greater changes downstream than you could get away with otherwise. Unless those that pull them then also go and make the same changes, just removing them won't suddenly level the field. It might be as simple as new jets in the carbs, but the rulebook is pretty explicit on this. It's either a spec class, or it's not. It's unfortunate that it affected most of the class due to oversight (I don't believe it was intentional cheating), but that by itself is not justification to change the rules to accommodate those that broke the rules.
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  17. #67
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    Just curious. What happened to the people that didn't have snorkels?


    By the way, we now have a snorkel for rent for the final two races. Lol

  18. #68
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    FWIW I think I found them for $18 online, so that plus some minor cash outlay for leaner jets, and these riders will be good to go. It's not like "stock bike plus exhaust" jet settings are super-secret or hard to change. Both mods easily done inside an hour and everyone's legal again.
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  19. #69
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    People without it had to pay a $25 fine.

    In response to one of your other posts above......it is clear in the rule book. But, when you get a bike and know that you didn't take anything off, it is hard to determine that you missed it.

    My bike was "torn down" already once at HPR (second race of the season there i think) and nobody noticed or told me about it then.

    Yes, it is our responsibility, but as i mentioned never had it so didn't know i was missing it.

    wanna sell yours???

  20. #70
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    Mike,

    This was a bit of a unique situation.

    To start the class Tony funded, and put together a "group buy" on some bikes that had been raced in California. Tony went and got the bikes and delivered them to the new owners here in Colorado.

    Most of the bikes that failed to have the snorkel attached were from those transactions, and as such Tony graciously paid the fine for those competitors that bought bikes from him.

    The bikes that finished 1st and 2nd this weekend in the class both had snorkels in place.

    Snorkel- less bikes were fined a small amount (that Tony paid) and left to continue racing on the premise that the situation will be fully fixed before round 7. Those with more serious infractions received a greater penalty - loss of points for the round and not able to race on sunday unless the problems were fixed.

    Unless the parts are unavailable I don't see any reason this whole thing can't be all fixed by R7

    Scott
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  21. #71
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    I would anticipate most any of the Kawi shops - have these as "take-offs" and probly in a box somewhere in the shop...

    my neighbor is a tech at g-force - I'll ask him later today if hes got any and what it would take to get them - cheeeeeeeap

  22. #72
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    When can we start the conspiracy theory posts about how Tony knowingly removed them in an effort to make money for the club via fines?

    Just kidding Tony.

  23. #73
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    After his well known role - from the grassy knoll in Dallas TX - he had to follow up with something "big"... just wait til Jesse Ventura get's wind of this one...

  24. #74
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    Tony paid the fines?
    What a stand up guy! No wonder he is the prez.

    I knew about the bikes and Tony's purchase of them, but I didn't know they had been raced before.

    This is a great reminder for Adam to dig into the online parts fiche and see if we are missing anything important.
    Both of our 250's are used and incomplete so I understand not knowing what is supposed to be there.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamandNoahsdad
    When can we start the conspiracy theory posts about how Tony knowingly removed them in an effort to make money for the club via fines?

    Just kidding Tony.
    Believe me, I would have never tried that hard... I would have just given the club the money in the first place... :lol:

    Since none of the initial bikes we got to start the class had them, and nobody took one off, we literally had no idea that they were missing. To call it a "snorkel" is a bit of a stretch anway... I expected it to be/look like the "carp mouth" type snorkels they have on dirtbikes and the old yamaha airboxes... It's a rectangular black rubber box that mounts to the side of the airbox, behind the subframe rail. Even looking at one bike that has one and one bike that doesn't, it takes a minute to see what you're looking for.

    Because the bikes I provided were missing those, I thought it was only fair that I paid everyone's fine. They did nothing wrong, imo.

    I'll also pay the cost to put one on their bikes if that's the direction we go with the rules.

    Talk about embarrassing though... sigh.

    One things for sure... there is NO performance advantage to not having one... and since everyone who keeps beating me HAS one - I'm gonna put one on regardless of what the outcome of the rule review is. :lol:
    Tony Baker #21

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