250 Production Cup - How to Grid em?

[T Baggins]

Hey guys and gals...

I am putting this out there to the 250 production riders to see what their thoughts are on "how to grid" the class. My hope is that we'll do something a little more interesting than the standard "by points" as we do in the other classes... Below are some possible ideas with pros and cons associated with each. Biggest concern on inverting grids is the leaders coming thru the slower field... but I maintain that will happen anyway - just later in the race if we run "normal" gridding. It would certainly make for more exciting racing and spectating...


1) By weight Saturday / by Saturday finish position on Sunday

Grid Saturday by Weight
-Heaviest rider on the pole
-Official scale at raceday office
-Riders weigh in at pre-tech
-empty pockets / no additional weight. Shirt / Pants / Shoes only
-In the event that two riders weigh EXACTLY the same amount then the grid position will be determined by random drawing / selection in the raceday office.

I think this has potential, but is potentially difficult to execute if Rybo doesn't have pre-tech help in the raceday office.

Grid Sunday by Saturday Finishing position
- Fastest guy on Saturday gets the pole on Sunday
- Sunday only riders gridded by points behind them then order of entry

Just makes sense, right? Only question here is does it unjustly penalize riders who are only going to race with us on Sunday.


2) By Points Saturday / By Saturday Finish Position on Sunday

Grid Saturday by Inverted Points
-Lowest season points gets the pole (pre-entry only)
-Gridded by entry time after that - all late sign up's go to the back

The safety thing applies here as well. Other than that, why not?

Grid Sunday by Saturday Finishing position
- Fastest guy on Saturday gets the pole on Sunday
- Sunday only riders gridded by points behind them then order of entry

Just makes sense, right? Only question here is does it unjustly penalize riders who are only going to race with us on Sunday.


3) By Points Saturday / By Fastest practice time Sunday

Grid Saturday by Inverted Points
-Lowest season points gets the pole (pre-entry only)
-Gridded by entry time after that - all late sign up's go to the back

The safety thing applies here as well. Other than that, why not?

Grid Sunday by fastest Sunday only practice time
- Fastest in Sunday practice gets the pole
- Late arrivals to the back

Chris can sort by practice times, the only glitch here would be the rider who is actually campaigning two bikes. How do we sort out if they were on the 600 versus the 250. Luke Wuckert comes to mind as well as Mobley. Not that we wouldn't be able to sort it out, it's just that it would take some additional time and effort to do so.


4) By Fastest practice time Both Days

Grid Saturday and Sunday by fastest practice time each day.
- Fastest in practice gets the pole
- Late arrivals to the back

Maybe the safest, most fair and second easiest way to set the grid. Doesn't set the stage for excitement like the other ideas though...


5) By the standard points method

BORING, but easy for Jen to execute and most fair to the riders chasing the championship. Will allow fast guys to check out and make for mediocre spectating.

So, whaddya you guys and gals think? Please ONLY vote if you're participating in the class - but all feel free to post up ideas and comments.

[Munch]

No option for a "Le Mans start"? :lol:

[sheispoison]

I totally vote for LeMans start!

[T Baggins]

No option for a "Le Mans start"? :lol:

We definitely could... but that doesn't address still what order to line em up in... We used to do Le Mans starts back when the 125's were big grids...

[rybo]

Option #6 (proposed)

LeMans Start by lottery at tech or pre-tech (both days)

[giovannir6]

Option #6!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

badger
badger
badger
badger
badger
badger
badger
badger.....

[toptier]

I say leave it gridded by points. It's not fair just because I weigh less then others means I have to grid in the back. If people want to complain that lighter people have an advantage they should choose to race on another bike, or know that coming in to this class that they are already at a disadvantage because of their weight.

[Bueller999]

I like the weight idea but that would stick my fat ass somewhere very near the front ops:
"Haha! look at the fat guy! :lol:

[polar x]

Nother suggestion....how about weight for Sat and fastest practice time on Sunday. No Sunday only racers get screwed and it makes for exciting starts for every sat race. Fat guys up front means turn one and two should be fun... :wink: :wink:

So I like opt 1 mixed with opt 3...anychance that could be opt 6 ?? That would be my vote.

[random hero]

I think you should grid the slowest riders @ the front.. these bikes don't have insane closing speed, and the fastest guys have plenty of time to get by the slow/fat people.... I say grid it by times Sat, slowest on pole etc, and then Sunday grid by reverse results: last place on pole. There are some seriously fast guys in the class, it might make the slower folks feel good about themselves for one of two corners.

Or just do whatever is the most difficult for Jen... option 7, and my vote :lol:

[polar x]

I say leave it gridded by points. It's not fair just because I weigh less then others means I have to grid in the back. If people want to complain that lighter people have an advantage they should choose to race on another bike, or know that coming in to this class that they are already at a disadvantage because of their weight.

Who's complaining....lets talk about the fun and excitement for the starts weaving through the group and bonsai's into turn 1 and 2. SWEET!!!!

If your fast, it wont matter as you will cut through the group quickly, if your slow, it wont matter as you will get passed quickly anyway and if your half way fast then it will be a little more competition to play with and dice it up. And I thought the point was to make it close and fun racing.

[jmaher]

I am not voting since I am not racing in the class. But my question is, if you do a Le Mans start, will the girth challenged also get a head start?

Joe

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

Grid Saturday by Weight
-Heaviest rider on the pole
-Official scale at raceday office
-Riders weigh in at pre-tech
-empty pockets / no additional weight. Shirt / Pants / Shoes only

I like the weigh in. Maybe see if the Byers General Store will host a "pounds for the pole" Friday evening all-you-can-eat BBQ.

-In the event that two riders weigh EXACTLY the same amount then the grid position will be determined by random drawing / selection in the raceday office.

Or Rochambeau for it.

[racer96]

I like the weight idea since I am probably the heaviest guy in the paddock. You think a 250 will even haul my 315 pound butt around the track?

[AdamandNoahsdad]

LeMans start! Yea Baby!

I say we have everyone run at least one hundred yards to their waiting bikes. That will weed out the old, out of shape racers. Sure, maybe there will be a few heart attacks, but isn't that why there is an ambulance at the track ?

But seriously, if the races turn into a predictable train of riders in the same order every time, it will be BORING to watch. The bikes aren't fast enough to be interesting to watch if the racing isn't close. My thought is we all do everything we can to make the racing interesting and fun. Maybe we could change the gridding procedure for each round.
I don't really like the grid for sunday being determined by the finishing order on saturday. Some of us who work in the industry cannot race on saturday. I wouldn't mind seeing each day treated as a separate race day. If they are awarded points as if they are separate races they should be gridded like they are independant of each other.

If we do the LeMans start, will Adam be allowed to have his step ladder next to his bike so he can get on it? Or can one of you guys give him a boost?

[AdamandNoahsdad]

I could have the kids ride two up to even out the weight thing.
Or three up (if I can find another kid) to be even with Racer96

[Jon]

I remember a time long long ago in the MRA when one of each riders boots were removed and thrown into a pile. The signal was given for the beginning of the race and the different riders searched through the pile, found and put on there boot and than the race began. Though I'm not in it, how about a return to this?

[TRK]

Option one with a running start. I voted one, but wanted a running start as well :shock:

[HAMMER]

It is a " race" and some people are taking it seriously. It really doesnt seem to fair griding by weight. Even tho I'm not the lightest ( I would probably. Be somewhere in the rear. ) not to say It wouldn't be fun dicing thru the fattys. If there is a good group of guys playing for the front it might get kinda sketchy goin through traffic. I don't think there will be a shortage of battles regardless ... I say just do it normal and keep it simple.

[The GECCO]

It is a " race" and some people are taking it seriously. It really doesnt seem to fair griding by weight. Even tho I'm not the lightest ( I would probably. Be somewhere in the rear. ) not to say It wouldn't be fun dicing thru the fattys. If there is a good group of guys playing for the front it might get kinda sketchy goin through traffic. I don't think there will be a shortage of battles regardless ... I say just do it normal and keep it simple.

Could someone check the weather report in Hell? I'm actually agreeing with Hammer, so I'm worried about other cosmically unlikely events :lol:

But, yes, why make it a gimmick? We've done gimmick stuff for one-time events that were more for fun anyway (the start Jon is referring to was for the first multi-hour endurance race when there was only a handful of teams entered). I can see doing the LeMans start or something like that, but the grid positions should be earned just like any other class. My $.02

[Bartman]

I also don't think we should make light of this class and lets not kid ourselves the racing will be the same as all the classes, the fast will be in the front the midpackers in the middle and the slower in the back. Inverting the grids will most likely break up the racing packs and make the ensuing laps more boring. Anybody that really thinks a spec class will make the difference as to where they finish is kidding themselves, bike is 20% rider is 80%. Not racing it but I would say leave it be.

[HAMMER]

I think it will piss more people off getting blown by in the first few corners by the fast guys trying to get to the front, than the glory of starting in the front row .... I for one will not be just "laxing" my way up there . Ill do what it takes .. I remember as a novice getting passed very close and it did sort of scare me at first and I know that some guys will not be very considerete of slower people when it comes to the big W ...... schramy has passed me so close my logos ended up on his bike. :shock:


But I don't mind ... some will

[mkdiehl]

I agree with Hammer...there are a fair number of us novices in this class. I know I would rather worry about catching the guy in front of me than worry about 10 guys faster than me getting around me.

I know it's their responsibility to get around and that I should just hold my line and worry about myself, but there is still that thought in the back of your mind that someone is coming and is much faster than you.....

I do applaud the effort to add some variance but maybe after a couple of races when us newbies get our feet wet?

[toptier]

I didn't buy a ninjette to race in a gimmick or a spectacle race. I bought one to race in a spec class.

[dragos13]

Personally I think its unfair to penalize someone because of their physical size. Just because someone is the lightest person on the grid doesn't mean they are the fastest. Someone could weigh 200lbs and be an expert racer with 250 experience where another rider could weigh 120lbs and be brand new to the sport. Why should the heavy guy get the advantage. I'm not racing the class but I say grid by points on both days like we would any other class. I do vote for staggered grids too 8)