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Thread: "Thunderbike" aka Misfit GP (MW removed from name)

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    "Thunderbike" aka Misfit GP (MW removed from name)

    Do you have a bike that doesn't "fit" in the 600 or 1000cc classes? Are you an exceptionally average racer, like myself? Would you like a place to share your passion for things out of the norm, motorcyclewise?

    The following is copied from the STGTU thread:

    "FWIW: If we do a MWThunderBike some year, I suggest removing the Jurergen rule and allowing the TZs back into Supertwins like they used to be. They are a twin."


    "There seems to be interest in a MWThunderbike class which would entail 675s,748/9/853/848s/Peironbonbonbons/Buel/other Ducati-CrapBags(tm) as well as anyone from the LWTwins class that would want to play. The 675 may kick the crap out of all of the other bikes in there (especially when ridden by Brad), but I think a 675 versus a well ridden 848 or 749R (Shane) may give him a decent run. At least this proposed class is a great deal more level than a 749R versus a 650cc ladies sport touring machine.

    I don't want to fix something that is not broken nor limit the classes the interesting and unique bikes can run in, but TwinsU was severely broken. These types of discussions are the step needed to grow and adapt as a club. I dislike Hot Carl as much as the next guy, but I think a "Formula Oddball" class would be hella cool. If anyone actually showed up and raced it. "


    "Do you think we could get 10 bikes on the "grid" consisting of MW Twins and Triumphs for the first weekend next year?

    If so, then as I understand it, MRA members can essentially create MW Thunderbike on the fly as stated by the MRA rulebook. (I think? I have never actually seen this take place...) "


    " However, on a more serious note... I know of at least 4 675s that would definitely run this, possibly 6 if it's run on a Sunday. I haven't heard any down side to this the way Dave (although he is a total dick) laid it out. It sounds like win win to me.
    carl "


    " The thread proposed Mw Thunderbike could be a catch all for most of us not running the "standards". 250ringding,675,636,748,749,848, and maybe the 3-5 aprilias that are around. All in the guesstimated 120hp range. I'll even run the old one. Hell, I'll bring both. "


    " I think I now see where I might have had better luck with my twins proposal from last year. While I suggested separating out the SV clan as lightweights and the Ducs/675/TZ's as middleweights, the proposal didn't include an additional class to run the middleweights. At the time I thought it would create more of a burden on the schedule to add a Thunderbike class so my suggestion simply changed the nature of Twins GTU and left the lightweights in Lightweight GP. "


    " Personally I've always viewed SuperTwins GTU as our MIDDLEWEIGHT twins class. LWGP is the LIGHTWEIGHT twins class in my humble opinion. Last year we made THAT class a safe haven for SV's by eliminating the 250GP bikes and large air cooled twins from the class.

    As I thought more about this today (before I saw your post) I came up with the following question in my own mind: "Why are we kicking twins out of a class called SuperTwins?" Is a 749R a contender for a STO win against a 1098R? Riders being equal, no. Is a Pierobon F042 a contender for an STO win...see above. Is it the MRA's fault that SV riders CHOOSE to RACE UP into a middleweight class on their bike? No, it's no different than Dalton or Josh racing 600's up into ROR-O.

    When the vote came to kick the Pierobon out it was inevitable that the 749R get booted too, as it's a more capable bike than the F042 is.

    This vote also kicks out the 1000 SuperSport, which we have racing in our club.

    The crux of this argument comes down to the following question:

    "Is SuperTwins GTU a lightweight Twins Class or a Middleweight Twins Class?" "


    " Hey. Looks like I'm selling my 2002 RSV, but if Novice's can run this "old crap Italian bike" class, I might keep it and get my but kicked by Brewer every weekend. It would be better than gettin my but kicked by a bone stock R6. "


    " Carl, you can add another Duc to that mix, I have a 748 motor now too. "


    " Sooo, if we do it right, and add another twins class, I can go out and have fun in another class (yes, I'll have my head handed to me again, but hey, racing up on the SV is a blast). Cool. "


    " So, just to recap, in case there is any confusion in what I suggested earlier in this thread:

    * LWGP already removed the TZ250s which essentially lends this class to the SV650 and other true lightweight bikes. I suggested leaving this class as-is.

    * Supertwins GTU is modified to become a middleweight class that allows up to 850cc desmo 4 valve water cooled engines, unlimited air cooled engines, unlimited two-stroke engines (twin or not), and up to 700cc three cylinder engines. (read: overbored 748s, 848s, Peribons, Buells, Trumpet 675s, TZ/RS250s)

    I only suggested this because of the modifications made to LWGP last season which allows an SV650 to now race in a class that is not populated by true race bred machines such as the 749R or TZ250. This suggestion also provides a place for those middleweight bikes to race against (similar) other motorcycles and a way to keep all Ducati riders from causing a full blown holy war.

    I think Ben Fox would approve of this message. (He can't be here right now. He is in front of a mirror preparing for his next TV appearance with the AMA) "


    " Been there, done that. This was exactly what was proposed LAST year. Here's the link: http://forums.mra-racing.org/viewtopic.php?t=9674

    ...And the explanation is the 8th post down in this thread. http://forums.mra-racing.org/viewtopic.php?t=9739

    However, I believe this one was missed at the meeting this year. LWSS/LWSB http://forums.mra-racing.org/viewtopic.php?t=11540 "


    " It sounds to me like between the 8 triumphs, 3-5 Ducs, 2-3 two fiddys, and the countless SVs that would race up that we have more than enough to field a grid. We're not really adding any classes. I don't see why this shouldn't happen! The board can still approve it if they want to since it was technically brought up before the deadline (last year) right? "


    " Don't forget about the 3-5 stock Aprilia RSV's that are on par with those Duc's (I was passed on the straight by that pesky 749r and 748ish bike)and probably out gunned by the 675's. "


    " Chiming in a little late here but:

    90hp sv weighs? 350ish?

    120hp 749r weighs, 390+.

    has anyone picked up a 40lb dumbell lateley? I have...and really wouldnt want to strap it on my bike.


    The hp discussion/argument about the sv and ducati is not as telling as it really should be IMO.

    Rybo how much does your bike weigh?
    Moham?
    Munch?

    Show the hp to weight ratios on each of the bikes in question then make some valid arguments based on that, because it tells a real story, not just "this bike makes xxxhp". And it's no match.

    In general a race prepped 848 will weigh more than the 749r it has a larger swingarm and frame tube diameter, both are larger in general size than an SV just more mass everywhere.

    The 848's on the grids in AMA dsb had to weigh 380, minimum, at the beginning of the season. Then that weight requirement was lowered mid season as the 848's were struggling against the 600's


    I'm not arguing one way or the other just stating the facts that should not be overlooked. "


    " No, I like STGTU as it is with the new rules!

    Let's get a new class called Thunderbike!!! I thought this would go through last year, but it didn't. Run it with the middleweight twins, triples, GP bikes, and the exotics (like Turpins bike).

    By the way I seen the sneak photos of the new BMW middleweight triple!

    Jeff "

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    I approve of this message.
    dave@MotoSix DOT com | MRA #31, WERA #311

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    wow, excellent cutting and pasting skills Batman!
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    "similar class in utah"

    Utahsba has a similar class, Twins GTO. The SV guys still have their own class, Twins GTU. The only addition to the this GTO class structure would be to allow the GBR 675's in. Wmrra runs a Formula Thunder class, similar idea.

    Utahsba Twins GTO class structure
    a) Up to 430cc two or more cylinder two stroke, unlimited origin
    b) Up to 550cc two or more cylinder two stroke, if frame is from a motorcycle manufactured for street use in North America
    c) Up to 550cc single cylinder two stroke, unlimited origin
    d) Up to 1000cc two cylinder four stroke four or more valves per cylinder, liquid cooled, except the Ducati 999R and equivalents (Ducati 999 is legal in this class; Ducati 999R is not)
    e) Unlimited displacement air cooled, one or two cylinders


    WERA has a class structures similar to the "Misfit GP" idea.

    HEAVYWEIGHT TWINS SUPERBIKE EXPERT & NOVICE and HEAVYWEIGHT TWINS SUPERSTOCK EXPERT & NOVICE

    Unlimited displacement air-cooled, four stroke twins, (based on Formula rules in HWTSB)
    Unlimited displacement water-cooled, four stroke twins, (under 900cc based on Formula rules in HWTSB
    Up to 700cc water cooled, four stroke triples
    Any machine legal for Lightweight Twins
    125cc & 250cc GP Machines in Superbike Only
    *Up to 1050cc Triples based on Superstock rules will be allowed in HWT Superbike only.
    *There are no bodywork limits in HWT.

  5. #5
    JohnGarc
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    Sorry for not reading the rules.. But off hand. Can you tell me what class I can run for Endurance Only? Is it lightweight? I am building an 03 Ducati 620ss frame with a 93 Ducati 750ss motor. IDK but it puts out maybe 60-65hp???

    Any help would be appreciated.

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    Since the twins classes are subject to change but haven't been finalized for next year, this advice is only based on last year's specs. It should be legal for LWGP (as long as you don't go any bigger), LW End, STU, and everything on up. These classes are all GP based so you don't need to worry about the chassis swap. The one thing you will need to work out is how you will run this after setting up your Skorpion.

  7. #7
    JohnGarc
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    Well I came across a sweet Duc, that I just couldnt pass up. So the R1 is for sale to fund the Duc. project. I am thinking of running Endurance LW with the Duc. and the CClass with the Skorpion. I would rather do the Skorpion for LW endurance but I don't think it will be that competitive plus I don't want to get slaughtered out there like I did with my RD350. That was hella fun but scary as shit too. haha :lol:

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    Not to be a constant thorn in the MRA's side but may I suggest that the MRA and USBA have some discussion as to this rule. After my bike being questionable in both clubs but deemed legal. I went ahead and raced and won with the USBA the Twins U class. I had some great racing and certainly didn't rule the roost and was beaten on more than one occasion by an SV 650. Though by seasons end yes, the USBA like the MRA had some questions over the true legality over my bike after I had developed it. Don Roberts (their director of competition) and myself agreed that it had grown beyond the scope of the class. They are better aligning their rules to grow the lightweight twins class and I am in full support of this as are many racers. I started on a small twin in the early nineties and still believe them to be the way to be able to race cheaply while developing made cornering skills. Cheap racing makes for growing attendance and growth for the club.
    Lastly, with the proximity of the two clubs and maybe one day a shared event, I believe that this could proximity some conflict should there be a combined event or should I or others wish to travel. Thank you for your consideration.

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    Another thunderbike class, http://emra.ca/index.php?pageid=classes

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    Hey, let's get the "Thunderbike" class started already so we can fight over kicking this thing out of the class! :lol: :lol: :lol:

    http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2010/...-675cc-triple/


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    Where's the I want tab?
    Fred SpongeButt Slowpants Roth
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    I may be old, I may be slow, but..... aw rats, I'm old and slow.

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    I like the unofficial addition of the "thunderbike" class!!! And the attempt at parity for the bikes that will be eligible. After speaking with Tony and Scott at the meeting, then thinking over things on the drive home, I looked up some specs for bikes that are being considered or not for the class.

    Triumph 675 Power: 126.05 HP (92.0 kW)) @ 12600 RPM
    Dry weight: 162.0 kg (357.1 pounds)
    Weight incl. oil, gas, etc: 184.0 kg (405.7 pounds)
    Power/weight ratio: 0.7781 HP/kg

    Ducati 848 Power: 134.00 HP (97.8 kW)) @ 10000 RPM
    Dry weight: 168.0 kg (370.4 pounds)
    Power/weight ratio: 0.7976 HP/kg

    Aprilia RSV Mille Power: 130.00 HP (94.9 kW)) @ 9500 RPM
    (01-03) Dry weight: 187.0 kg (412.3 pounds)
    Power/weight ratio: 0.6952 HP/kg

    Aprilia RSVR Power: 141.12 HP (103.0 kW)) @ 10000 RPM
    (04+) Dry weight: 189.0 kg (416.7 pounds)
    Power/weight ratio: 0.7467 HP/kg


    All specs from www.bikez.com using the newest available model. Power/weight numbers show a little different line up than talked about at the meeting. Just throwing out some numbers. Thanks for taking the steps to add this class guys.

    Casey #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowblaze506
    I like the unofficial addition of the "thunderbike" class!!! And the attempt at parity for the bikes that will be eligible. After speaking with Tony and Scott at the meeting, then thinking over things on the drive home, I looked up some specs for bikes that are being considered or not for the class.

    Triumph 675 Power: 126.05 HP (92.0 kW)) @ 12600 RPM
    Dry weight: 162.0 kg (357.1 pounds)
    Weight incl. oil, gas, etc: 184.0 kg (405.7 pounds)
    Power/weight ratio: 0.7781 HP/kg

    Ducati 848 Power: 134.00 HP (97.8 kW)) @ 10000 RPM
    Dry weight: 168.0 kg (370.4 pounds)
    Power/weight ratio: 0.7976 HP/kg

    Aprilia RSV Mille Power: 130.00 HP (94.9 kW)) @ 9500 RPM
    (01-03) Dry weight: 187.0 kg (412.3 pounds)
    Power/weight ratio: 0.6952 HP/kg

    Aprilia RSVR Power: 141.12 HP (103.0 kW)) @ 10000 RPM
    (04+) Dry weight: 189.0 kg (416.7 pounds)
    Power/weight ratio: 0.7467 HP/kg


    All specs from www.bikez.com using the newest available model. Power/weight numbers show a little different line up than talked about at the meeting. Just throwing out some numbers. Thanks for taking the steps to add this class guys.

    Casey #75
    I'm extremely skeptical of the 370 lb ducati 848 spec. can someone tell me how a street bike 848 with no oil or gas weighs less than a full on ducati 1098r superbike(which i have a little bit of experience with regarding the weight of) that has no lights, no plastic bodywork.? There's very very little difference in the engines between the 848 and 1098r, they weigh very similar. the crank in the 848 is heavier and the rods are heavier and the pistons are slightly lighter. there might be a 3-4 lb difference between the two. and the 848 comes with a steel subframe.

    The MRA can afford some quality scales from intercomp. I still think its time to start using weight as a measurement for the rule book. "stated HP" and weight form manufactures is not a good way to judge the things and group them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowblaze506
    I like the unofficial addition of the "thunderbike" class!!! And the attempt at parity for the bikes that will be eligible. After speaking with Tony and Scott at the meeting, then thinking over things on the drive home, I looked up some specs for bikes that are being considered or not for the class.

    Triumph 675 Power: 126.05 HP (92.0 kW)) @ 12600 RPM
    Dry weight: 162.0 kg (357.1 pounds)
    Weight incl. oil, gas, etc: 184.0 kg (405.7 pounds)
    Power/weight ratio: 0.7781 HP/kg

    Ducati 848 Power: 134.00 HP (97.8 kW)) @ 10000 RPM
    Dry weight: 168.0 kg (370.4 pounds)
    Power/weight ratio: 0.7976 HP/kg

    Aprilia RSV Mille Power: 130.00 HP (94.9 kW)) @ 9500 RPM
    (01-03) Dry weight: 187.0 kg (412.3 pounds)
    Power/weight ratio: 0.6952 HP/kg

    Aprilia RSVR Power: 141.12 HP (103.0 kW)) @ 10000 RPM
    (04+) Dry weight: 189.0 kg (416.7 pounds)
    Power/weight ratio: 0.7467 HP/kg


    All specs from www.bikez.com using the newest available model. Power/weight numbers show a little different line up than talked about at the meeting. Just throwing out some numbers. Thanks for taking the steps to add this class guys.

    Casey #75
    The '04 and newer Aprilia RSVR would not be eligible, only the '03 and older. And I can tell you that my '01 RSV Mille is no where near the 130hp that bikez.com lists. With a full akra system, pc3, eprom chip update and clarkie map I am only pushing 108 at the wheel.
    MRA #29

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    So, wait:

    We are allowing old RSVs and Tls in this class too?


    (cool!)
    dave@MotoSix DOT com | MRA #31, WERA #311

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    Personally I am stoked if this happens, and that said if all the newer Mille's are in that is cool too, AMA saw fit to let them run with the 600's and it wasn't a huge advantage for them. The guys from KWS posted their specs on the WERA board: 138hp, 381lbs wet, my 675 made 117/50 on Bart's dyno and I'm guessing weighs around 360 pounds wet.

    We have talked a lot about how to bring in new racers, but I think another important question is how to keep those we do bring in as it seems the falloff of experts is pretty dramatic as well. Speaking as someone who will be at the tail end of the expert times next year having classes like this that aren't quite the meat grinder of the big AMU and AMO grids gets me psyched for next year.
    #91 Triumph 675
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave.gallant
    So, wait:

    We are allowing old RSVs and Tls in this class too?


    (cool!)

    oh yeah.... didn't you hear?

    basically, the mra rules have always been grouping bikes by displacement, but this class is a "speculative" HP class so any bike that's roughly in a certain HP range will race here. Im not quite sure how the authorities that be are determining class eligibility :roll: for certain said bikes like the 916's and mille's and tl1000r's but basically i think all you have to do is come up with some hp specs from somewhere that's around 120ish and your in.

    Hey i have a new web site im building called www.1098rducatismake120hp.com and its going to list hp specs for 1098r's..... :wink:
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    So a Terry Shepherd TL1000 or a full corsa 916 is legal as long as we tune them to make 90ft/lbs of torque and less than 110HP?

    Hell yes. Chaos!
    dave@MotoSix DOT com | MRA #31, WERA #311

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave.gallant
    So a Terry Shepherd TL1000 or a full corsa 916 is legal as long as we tune them to make 90ft/lbs of torque and less than 110HP?

    Hell yes. Chaos!
    no no no, my friend, you don't even need to detune them. there's no dyno at the track.... come on... no one will care if you show up with a something like that....

    Personally im going to build a 1200cc 916. Im going to call it the "heartbreaker"
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    screw all those middleweight twins and 675's that this class was intended for....munch take that 749r and go away, we don't want you in this class either!!! :lol:

    Really all seriousness....i thought this class was going to be a middleweight class for bikes like the 749r but now it's letting in open liter bikes? come on, i don't care if they are 10 years old and made crap for power. they belong where they belong, and that's twins gto...sorry...

    also, if this is to be, then please drop the "middleweight" name from the title just call it thunderbike or something that doesn't mislead people to think there's no "litre" bikes in it.
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    Can we rename this class to "GTFO"?

    :shock:
    dave@MotoSix DOT com | MRA #31, WERA #311

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    Only one problem there Benji, Twins GTO is now a 1200cc or more twins class with the Duck and the KTM RC8R. So how about we call it Heavyweight Twins so everybody that has a heavyweight twin has something of a chance.
    This has always been the problem with the twins class, instead of making a better bike they just make them bigger, it is effin bullshit. When honda was gettin their ass handed to them by ducati what did they do, they built a 1000cc twin to kick ducatis ass. They did not make there 750 four into a 900 or some shit and then bitch and complain to get the rules changed they beat them with in the rules.

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    Jim, thanks for highlighting my main reasoning for posting those numbers. The 03 and older Aprilia is well down on Hp/performance compared to the 675 and 848. Even more so from your personal experience with a fair amount of add-ons than the web numbers indicate. I would be very surprised if my '06.5 RSVR put out anywhere close to the 138hp that bikez.com lists. So web numbers are a bit of a grey area.
    Having raced with some 848's, there is no straight line advantage between the 848 and RSVR. Only a weight disadvantage to the Aprilia when it comes to, well, everything else.

    I'm looking forward to this class. I think it's a great idea to have, basically, a heavyweight weight twins + class. Parity within any class is a tough rule book to write. But looking at the line up, there might be 2 Aprilias for sale or trade for a 675. Please reconsider the cut off year for the Apes.

    This message was approved by me, Casey Smith #75 for Thunderbike Parity, mostly because I'm bored and it snowed today. :twisted:

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    Bart and Ben, you guys should be lobbying for all the old bikes with crazy mods, more $$ in your pockets! Everyone seems to assume the goal of the class is to cheat, I mean according to the rabble on here someone will show up with an 848 badged 1098....was I really racing against liter bikes in 600 frames all year? The plot thickens...

    Regardless of what everyone brings to play I gotta say Hot Carl could be the early favorite, I'll happily bring up the rear and try to learn a few things.
    #91 Triumph 675
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