STGTU class

[Scored51]

So, just to recap, in case there is any confusion in what I suggested earlier in this thread:

* LWGP already removed the TZ250s which essentially lends this class to the SV650 and other true lightweight bikes. I suggested leaving this class as-is.

* Supertwins GTU is modified to become a middleweight class that allows up to 850cc desmo 4 valve water cooled engines, unlimited air cooled engines, unlimited two-stroke engines (twin or not), and up to 700cc three cylinder engines. (read: overbored 748s, 848s, Peribons, Buells, Trumpet 675s, TZ/RS250s)

I only suggested this because of the modifications made to LWGP last season which allows an SV650 to now race in a class that is not populated by true race bred machines such as the 749R or TZ250. This suggestion also provides a place for those middleweight bikes to race against (similar) other motorcycles and a way to keep all Ducati riders from causing a full blown holy war.

I think Ben Fox would approve of this message. (He can't be here right now. He is in front of a mirror preparing for his next TV appearance with the AMA)

Been there, done that. This was exactly what was proposed LAST year. Here's the link: http://forums.mra-racing.org/viewtopic.php?t=9674

...And the explanation is the 8th post down in this thread. http://forums.mra-racing.org/viewtopic.php?t=9739

However, I believe this one was missed at the meeting this year. LWSS/LWSB http://forums.mra-racing.org/viewtopic.php?t=11540

[dave.gallant]

...which was my other point.

My "suggestion" wasn't too late for this years rules deadline because it was made last year.

[Scored51]

So you're sayin' great minds have the same screws loose? :wink:

[dave.gallant]

So you're sayin' great minds have the same screws loose? :wink:

Exactly!!

[sheispoison]

It sounds to me like between the 8 triumphs, 3-5 Ducs, 2-3 two fiddys, and the countless SVs that would race up that we have more than enough to field a grid. We're not really adding any classes. I don't see why this shouldn't happen! The board can still approve it if they want to since it was technically brought up before the deadline (last year) right?

[TRK]

Just to clarify things. The edit was because of a typo. 749R was in the post from the get go.
-Shannon

[snowblaze506]

Don't forget about the 3-5 stock Aprilia RSV's that are on par with those Duc's (I was passed on the straight by that pesky 749r and 748ish bike)and probably out gunned by the 675's.

Should we start another thread for "MW Thundrbike'?

[Munch]

Thanks Shannon.

I still think to moon landing was faked

[benfoxmra95]

Chiming in a little late here but:

90hp sv weighs? 350ish?

120hp 749r weighs, 390+.

has anyone picked up a 40lb dumbell lateley? I have...and really wouldnt want to strap it on my bike.


The hp discussion/argument about the sv and ducati is not as telling as it really should be IMO.

Rybo how much does your bike weigh?
Moham?
Munch?

Show the hp to weight ratios on each of the bikes in question then make some valid arguments based on that, because it tells a real story, not just "this bike makes xxxhp". And it's no match.

In general a race prepped 848 will weigh more than the 749r it has a larger swingarm and frame tube diameter, both are larger in general size than an SV just more mass everywhere.

The 848's on the grids in AMA dsb had to weigh 385, minimum, at the beginning of the season. Then that weight requirement was lowered mid season as the 848's were struggling against the 600's lowered down just 5 lbs, i think.

regardless, it's an act of a wallet of god to get a ducati to weigh less than 380lbs. were talking carbon tank and bodywork and mag wheels


I'm not arguing one way or the other just stating the facts that should not be overlooked.

[JWinter]

No, I like STGTU as it is with the new rules!

Let's get a new class called Thunderbike!!! I thought this would go through last year, but it didn't. Run it with the middleweight twins, triples, GP bikes, and the exotics (like Turpins bike).

By the way I seen the sneak photos of the new BMW middleweight triple!

Jeff

[dave.gallant]

By the way I seen the sneak photos of the new BMW middleweight triple!

Jeff

Pics and specs now or I steal your BBM!

[benfoxmra95]

BTW, that said, it wouldn't be that hard would it be for the MRA truck to carry around a set of scales to each race to weigh bikes for a required minimum weight set up in the rules.

I think some weight rules might be inline for next season rule changes.

Im not saying we need to be the AMA, but, they have installed some weight rules in their rule book for a good reason, and maybe it's time to look at the idea of it.

That is all.....I have to get to LA, for the next x-men movie filming.

[rybo]

Rybo how much does your bike weigh?
Moham?
Munch?

My bike currently makes 107HP
It has mag wheels and fiberglass bodywork with a stock steel tank. I'd guess it's in the 415-420 LB range without gas in it, but to be totally honest I've never weighed it. I'll see if I can get it on a scale in the next few days.

[Scored51]

BTW, that said, it wouldn't be that hard would it be for the MRA truck to carry around a set of scales to each race to weigh bikes for a required minimum weight set up in the rules.

I think some weight rules might be inline for next season rule changes.

Honest Quesion: Don't you think that may be a little hard to enforce if a significant number of bikes decide to ride up? From what I understand (read: paddock BS) the Pierobon is under 310 lbs, but could fit nicely into a middleweight performance index... and the GP thumper of JWinter at little more than 200 lbs roughly has the same power to weight ratio as Rybo's Duc. Every bike would need to be reviewed agreed upon before it became eligible. Then if X bike started winning races would be "reclassified" with more weight back into the pack. Seems like it could open a more subjective type of championship.

That is all.....I have to get to LA, for the next x-men movie filming.

Wow! They needed a stand-in for Storm? :shock:

[dave.gallant]

Wow! They needed a stand-in for Storm? :shock:

Dude, stop that.

She is hot, and I don't want images of Ben flashing through my mind at those special moments of my day.

[Hotrod]

90hp sv weighs? 350ish?
749r 120 hp at 390?

Dude... Really? You know as well as any one that a 90 h.p. SV is about as rare as an honest politician. They just don't stay together. I bet there aren't 2 in our club at that level.

Mine is a bone stock, tired street motor with flatslides. I would bet good money that I don't even clear 70 hp.

40lbs, assuming that number is accurate is more than offset by DOUBLE the HP.

I have no problem riding up and having fun. I do it all the time, but lets call a turd a turd.
Anyone trying to suggest parity between those two bikes has never spent time on what Dave aptly named a "Ladies Touring Bike".

I am all for thunderbike as a new race class that I can race up into against true middleweights, just as I do now against open class hardware in STGTO.

Just don't expect me to believe that anyone seriously thinks those two are on even footing.

[Hotrod]

2004 749R

Max Power 116.00 HP (84.7 kW) at 10500 RPM
Max Torque 80.00 Nm (58.82 ft*lbs) at 8500 RPM
Power/Weight Ratio 0.6 Hp/Kg
Top Speed -
Acceleration (dart, speedup) time
0-100 km/h 3.3 seconds
0-60 mph 3.1 seconds
# 1/4 mile 11.3 seconds
-
# 60 to 140 km/h, highest gear


SV650
Model 1999-2002 2003-2006
1/4 Mile 12.04 sec @ 107.22 mph (172.55 km/h) 11.82 sec @ 106.02 mph (170.62 km/h)
0-60 mph 3.76 sec 3.65 sec
0-100 mph 9.94 sec
Roll-On, 60-80 mph 4.44 sec
Fuel Mileage 45-55 mpg (4.28-5.23 L/100km) 45-59 mpg (3.98-5.23 L/100km)
Range (exc. Reserve) ~165 miles (266 km) ~186 miles (299 km) -




0-60 3.1 vs 3.76

1/4 mile times 11.3 vs 12.04

That gap is a lifetime coming off of every corner on the track...

I love the idea of a separate middleweight thunderbike class. There seems to be a lot of interest and serves more riders better than allowing a fox (hehehe) in the henhouse of an existing little bike class.

Allowing the 749R into STGTU does nothing to address the 848 riders, the 675 riders, the Ape riders and the TZ's.
Let 'em have their own playground and I will come race up and get spanked.

[T Baggins]

THUNDERBIKE! THUNDERBIKE! THUNDERBIKE! THUNDERBIKE!

[dave.gallant]

THUNDERBIKE! THUNDERBIKE! THUNDERBIKE! THUNDERBIKE!

???

[T Baggins]

No Dave, that's ThunderDOME... God you're such a douche sometimes! :lol:

[Desmodromico]

Nah, thunderdome was the one with the me master he blaster dudes in the pig crap...we could use AC/DC as the theme music over the PA, anyhow I agree...

THUNDERBIKE THUNDERBIKE THUNDERBIKE

[JWinter]

The HP/weight ratio idea only applies when you have a large amount of riders on the same level...Like MotoGP or AMA for that matter. On the club level we are all at different levels/styles of rider ability. Yes anyone of us could be better if it was our full time job to race. In the real world of club level racing we are doing what we can to hopefully level the playing field. In the end no matter how hard we try someone is going to win the race and we can't keep trying to stack the deck in our favor in order to keep one or two specific racers always winning races. That is why the exotic twins that Shane and Jon showed up with have created some controversy. I truly believe we should offer at least 1 sprint class per weight division (light, middle, heavyweight, and open) in supersport, superbike, and Grand Prix. Or in the case of the lightweight division offering a lightweight twins specific class which twins U is basically serving as.

Munch has a good point about the purchase of machinery. We need to have some consistency with our classes and not react due to one guy showing up with a super trick bike.

Sorry I am starting to ramble,

Jeff

[Scored51]

THUNDERBIKE! THUNDERBIKE! THUNDERBIKE! THUNDERBIKE!

HO!!!

[Jon]

While at the ROC in FL this past weekend I had the opportunity to weigh my Pierobon on certified scales and regardless of what I, BMS or anyone else has said mine weighed in at a feathery 324 pounds. Not really the weight I was hoping for and quite a bit over what I was told but regardless since I don't race with the club and any infringement on the name Thunderbike probably wouldn't rest to well with CCS/ASRA, I would look for another name for your new class.
Cheers,

[Jon]

Also, to clarify my intentions. I had raced up until this season for 20 years with the MRA and actually enjoyed it without any true controversy,but will not be showing up and spoiling your show with my bike or myself. So I wouldn't really worry about what you do with any of your classes. As long as you make classes that are suitable for everything and allow everyone to win something I'm sure everything will be alright.