D. Fork modifications are limited to the following:a. Standard production internal parts of forks may be modified to alter
damping qualities. After-market damper kits or valves may be installed.
b. Fork springs may be replaced with optional or after-market springs.
Fork caps may be modified or replaced to allow external adjustment of
fork springs only.
Are fork extenders legal to use?
Thanks
Midnight Moto Grubbs
Interesting question Steve....
my first reaction was that this would be an illegal modification because it does something more than permit adjustment of the spring (as specified by the rule)
As I thought a little more about it I realized that cartridges are legal in supersport, and that the cartridges often come with different fork caps....so if a cartridge came with a fork cap that HAPPENED to provide for extended length, would it be legal?
I don't know, but I think it should be clarified in our rulebook going forward.
Paging Bart and Casey!
MRA Expert #69
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Based on the current wording, I would say no. Fork extenders would need to be listed as something you can add. Unless you try to say they are just considered "fork caps".
Now, of course my opinion doesn't mean much. Bartman will be the one who has to say yes or no to the final ruling.
(just don't beat me in SS and I wont protest) 8)
Casey D
Casey you need to work out the difference between the 'wording' of a rule, and the 'intent' of the rule. I know for sure I could find something on your bike that doesnt follow the exact 'wording' of the rule but without a doubt is legal.
Motorbikes are changing so much now days, and some of the rules (the wording) only apply to certain bikes. The 'intent' is pretty clear but you would need a hell of a lot bigger rule book to make sure the wording is right for ever motorbike made and raced.
Case in point, it would be 'legal' to recess your forks 8mm in the clamps (basically have a couple of cup holders like I used to run on my 05 GSXR1000) but run the risk of your front end being tweaked after coming down hard from a wheelie as it happened a few times for me. Or use fork extenders which offer no mechanical advantage. Geometry/safety advantages yes, but the same can be acheived using many other methods which are 'legal' in the rule book, just not really safe.
If you had to run 'stock' fork caps in the SS classes, goodbye Ohlins, and yeah the fork cap extenders can be considered 'aftermarket fork caps' that are just really tall! LOL
Rear tires are becoming larger, and people are compensating with their geometry in different ways. With one race to go and the O-SS title within your grasp, do you really want your bike torn down to the crank for me just to proove my point
I say for SS, they have to be OEM stock internals, but you can run 20W fork oil 8)
Hey Clarkie you are absolutely right about "wording" vs "intent". I have been struggling this year to figure out the difference also. Personally, I try to go by the wording of the rule book. More specifically, if its NOT listed as something you can add, then you CAN'T add it. Last year I thought there was going to be a lot of SS protests and I have gone over every part on my bike to make sure I'm within regulations. You can tear my motor down if you want to see a totally stock engine. Hell, I don't even have a power commander and am still running the O2 sensor to do my tuning lol.
It is going to be a HUGE project but I plan on working with the board on re-writing the rule book. It has had parts added and parts removed so much over the years that there are many contradicting sections and conflicting rules. Its pretty crazy the amount of stuff Scott and myself have already come up with. If everyone knew the rulebook word for word, people would know just how messed up it is. This off season should be perfect for exactly that.
So, I just try to decipher the wording. Since the final call is left to Bart, he has the experience and knowledge to figure out the intent of the rule. You are absolutely right that some stuff doesn't follow exact wording, but is definitely accepted as legal. Just not for Grubbs :shock:
Casey D
So you 'added' an O2 sensor huh?
I know your bike is legal, but I also know I could find something that has been done that isnt written in the rule book. Heck 90% of bikes are that way even if it doesnt provide any avantage at all. I can think of 5 things off that people (or I) do that isnt listed, which makes it illegal right?
FWIW, fork extenders were deemed legal on my(and others) GSXR6/750s in 2006 and later right here in the good old MRA.
WERA allows them too.
As does most everyone else.
FWIW, there are tons of other ways to achieve the same thing without the extenders that you wouldnt even notice on first glance...
dave@MotoSix DOT com | MRA #31, WERA #311
Oh no, my bike came stock from the factory with an O2 sensor. It just wasn't removed
Clarkie, I know you know your stuff and I would love to hear your list of things you believe everyone does that are illegal. I love SS racing and have been doing it the past 3 years. If something on my bike isn't legit, I would be the first to fix it BEFORE this coming weekend.
Casey D
Also be prepared to fully rewrite the rule book every year with what I have heard is coming down the pipe line. The S1000R has opened a lot of doors for the Japanese OEMs in the SS/Street trim, it's kinda game on and it going to be tough to keep up.
Especially when you are allowed to run one off Kit racing items in the SS classes now....
Who needs KIT parts?
A full MOTEC traction control control enabled system (eg: WSBK) is legal in MRA SuperSport!
Run whatever you can hide and afford boys. Everyone else is!!
dave@MotoSix DOT com | MRA #31, WERA #311
If its just timing retarding based on engine speed then you are absolutely right. Once wheel sensors are added, it's no longer SS legal.Originally Posted by dave.gallant
Casey D
LOL pretty much Dave, it's a good thing Bart and other people that 'know stuff' are racing the SS classes, the door is kinda wide open right now with the technology out there and people like Bart could fully take adavntage ot it, I know I could :wink:
Hmmmm...2 wheel speed sensors, stock on the S1000R and new ZX10R, allowed to run race ECU's, comes stock with traction control..... it sure isnt 1999 any more! LOL Superstock/sport rules should be about creating parity in a class and right now that is REALLY hard. Jim Wilson's suggestions for classes have a lot of merit
Except that there are already various speed sensors on most stock motorcycles since the dark ages. I don't have to measure the rear wheel speed at the actual rear wheel to be able to tell you how fast it is going.If its just timing retarding based on engine speed then you are absolutely right. Once wheel sensors are added, it's no longer SS legal.
Point being is this: When I complained in 2005+ that KIT parts in supersport was a contradiction, it was dismissed because we here in the MRA like to build rather than ride. So, I welcome the MOTEC (and all one-off black boxes that look stock) with welcome arms and wish you guys riding superbikes on DOTs all the best!
dave@MotoSix DOT com | MRA #31, WERA #311
crank speed or countershaft speed, and a front wheel speed sensor is all you need nowdays for TC/wheelie control, a LOT of bikes come with those stock now :wink:
No doubt about bikes being seriously built for SS. It would be nice to create a superstock class. Where motors are actually STOCK pushing stock HP. Now, you can mill the head, degree timing, run KIT ECU's. Seems like spending $10K on an SS build is the norm right now. I wish I could afford that lol. I'd be happy with just a PC and quick shifter. But, atleast they aren't fully built 140HP bikes like you find in SB.
Casey D
What could we do about that? If it comes stock, shouldn't it be allowed in SS? I mean, to limit it and say you have to remove or disable features that a stock bike comes with wouldn't make sense.
I guess SS rules should be more about motor building? Running aftermarket wheels? I don't know but the closer we can keep things to factory stock, the better imo.
Casey D
So the new 2011 ZX10 will not be supersport legal?If its just timing retarding based on engine speed then you are absolutely right. Once wheel sensors are added, it's no longer SS legal.
"The MotoGP-derived Sport-Kawasaki Traction Control, or S-KTRC, works by crunching numbers from a variety of parameters and sensors — wheel speed and slip, engine rpm, throttle position, acceleration, etc. “There’s more data gathering and analysis going on here than on any other Kawasaki in history, and it’s all in the name of helping racers inch closer to the elusive ‘edge’ of maximum traction than ever before,” Kawasaki says. The S-KTRC system relies on software buried in the ZX-10R’s ECU. The only additional hardware are speed sensors located on each wheel."
http://www.dealernews.com/dealernews...tegoryId=48447
MRA #29
Im just trying to find out if I can use fork extenders next year so my bike will stay safe as clarkie mentioned. As almost all racers on the 06 and up gsxrs run the fork extenders to achieve the geometery the bike likes.
Casey if it is not a legal run please add that to the rule change thread!
Orsomeone could buy the ABS odel 1000RR just to get the sensors, then remove the ABS components, add the HRC wcu and you have TC, wheelie control, and if you know the right guy, launch control :wink:
ALL Honda parts, not a piggy-back system
Since it comes STOCK with the sensors, then its legal.So the new 2011 ZX10 will not be supersport legal?If its just timing retarding based on engine speed then you are absolutely right. Once wheel sensors are added, it's no longer SS legal.
"The MotoGP-derived Sport-Kawasaki Traction Control, or S-KTRC, works by crunching numbers from a variety of parameters and sensors — wheel speed and slip, engine rpm, throttle position, acceleration, etc. “There’s more data gathering and analysis going on here than on any other Kawasaki in history, and it’s all in the name of helping racers inch closer to the elusive ‘edge’ of maximum traction than ever before,” Kawasaki says. The S-KTRC system relies on software buried in the ZX-10R’s ECU. The only additional hardware are speed sensors located on each wheel."
http://www.dealernews.com/dealernews...tegoryId=48447
Wheel speed sensors are not legal when ADDED to bikes that don't come from the factory with one.
Casey D
So how about adding the OEM ABS sensors from a non-ABS model, just to gain TC/Wheelie control? You can update other components, where does it stop?
Can I run this on my 5 year old bike so that its equal to the latest machines?
MRA #29
It doesn't stop Crikey.
People who race the class need to decide where they want to spend their money. Supersport is a difficult beast to contain (and getting more difficult with all of this cool tech they are bolting on now), but it could be done if everyone wanted to remain competitive but not spend $10k on a supersport bike worth $5k in total by the end of the season.
dave@MotoSix DOT com | MRA #31, WERA #311
'Can I run this on my 5 year old bike so that its equal to the latest machines?
Yup. It is legal right now.
dave@MotoSix DOT com | MRA #31, WERA #311
Hey you can easily spend $10,000 just on electronics right now and it still be SS legal. Two equal bikes engine and chassis wise, two equal riders, electronics will win, welcome to NOW!
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