Allow 850 twins into Supertwins GTU

[Bartman]

I have said it before and I will say it again, let just outlaw all twins and those pesky two smokers and while we are at it no triples either and we will go get 600s and 1000s and we will all be one big happy family. :lol:
Eff diversity.

[Hotrod]

If we are trying to make this an SV class then keep it out by all means and ban the 749R as well (sorry Munch), however I thought that was what LWGP was for?

The reason I brought this up last year is there is no way in hell 90% of the club members could be competitive in NovU, AmU, or MWSB on an SV650, many could be on an 848 or 749R and thus make it a more attractive ride for those who want to race a twin and bring in more entries, plus the 749/748 could run a big bore and get a new lease on life as well. The real issue is not the twins it is having a bike that you can run in many classes and be competitive, and the 600's are so damn fast an SV is like a squirt gun in those classes. Shannon rides the wheels off his highly tricked out SV, but he wouldn't have won the last NovU race, so what does that say about where we stand with the bike?

Frankly the 848 would be significantly cheaper to run than a 749R, and those things are scarce anyhow. 848's are popping up like weeds for sale everywhere and I see them on the street all the time.

OH EMM GEEE! (Quoting Eric Cromer there)


I just smashed my soap-box in frustration, so I guess I have nothing to say other than proposing that the 2011 and up GSXR-1000 be henceforth allowed in colorado class. We can change the name of the class to ROR2 and kick some serious single cylinder azz!!!


Um, ever take the spirit of the class into consideration? :evil:

[Desmodromico]

You guys are too funny, spirit of the class? That is already F'ed up by your OWN definition so why not fix the rules?

The grid is damn near the same people in LWGP and STGTU why not just make an SV spec class instead of LWGP if that is what everyone wants? Or most of the SV guys are older so why not make the Formula 40 LW and HW with LW having SV as the top displacement?

Nothing gets accomplished without solutions, if you want to keep making me the bad guy go ahead, I don't even have an F'ing 848!

[dave.gallant]

I don't think many of us really care anymore and showed our opinion by selling our SVs.

Let 848s run in TwinsU. Hell, let the 1098 in MWSS & HWSS while we are it!

It simply means a few less whiny lightweight twins riders on the grid.

[dave.gallant]

just outlaw all twins and those pesky two smokers

This is all I want in life:



500cc of pure stupidity!!

[Scored51]

OH EMM GEEE! (Quoting Eric Cromer there)

I just smashed my soap-box in frustration, so I guess I have nothing to say other than proposing that the 2011 and up GSXR-1000 be henceforth allowed in colorado class. We can change the name of the class to ROR2 and kick some serious single cylinder azz!!!

Um, ever take the spirit of the class into consideration? :evil:

=; =; =;DO NOT JEST MY 650 FEATHERED FRIEND!!! [-X [-X [-X
There is, and has always been, a way to run an ROR bike in LWGP. All it takes a little creativtiy, reasonable sized check book, and a couple of loose nuts building it to be sitting on the grid with twice the horsepower your SV has and probably less weight. At which point Mr. Turpin's records for the class would be a good warm up pace for the right rider. Am I about right, Sir David?

[dave.gallant]

Throw enough $ at a problem and there is always a solution to be found.

(4 clinder 1000cc air cooled fuel injected turbocharged two stroke!)

[Desmodromico]

My point exactly, SV numbers are small, so propose a solution instead of taking your ball and going home.

Sometimes the attitudes here are amazing, it is a discussion forum, so discuss don't just piss on everybody else's ideas...

WERA has a different setup that has a lot of SV classes, they also don't allow 1098's into some classes and run many of the races in waves instead of separately, is this the way that gets more people out on the grid?



7. The WERA Sportsman Series competition classes are as follows:
A SUPERSTOCK EXPERT & NOVICE and A SUPERBIKE EXPERT & NOVICE
Unlimited OEM Displacement
B SUPERSTOCK EXPERT & NOVICE and B SUPERBIKE EXPERT & NOVICE
Up to 750cc multis (Superbike up to 770cc)
Up to 1050cc 4 stroke triples(Superbike up to 1080cc)
Up to 1000cc 4-stroke twins
Unlimited singles
Vintage 5 & 6 machines
* 250cc GP machines are allowed in B Superbike. Ducati 1098 is allowed into B Superbike in Superstock trim.
C SUPERSTOCK EXPERT & NOVICE and C SUPERBIKE EXPERT & NOVICE
Up to 650cc 4-stroke multis
Up to 675cc 4-stroke triples
Up to 1200cc 4-stroke air-cooled twins
Up to 850cc 4-stroke water-cooled twins
Up to 550cc 2-stroke multis
Unlimited singles
Vintage 5 machines
*Aprilia Tuono and SV1000 are allowed in C Superstock and Superbike in Superstock trim only for both classes slicks are allowed in Superbike.
D SUPERSTOCK EXPERT & NOVICE and D SUPERBIKE EXPERT & NOVICE
Up to 490cc water-cooled multis
Up to 700cc 4-stroke water-cooled twins with 3 valves or less per cylinder
Up to 600cc air-cooled multis & water cooled twins with more than 3 valves
Up to 883cc 4-stroke air-cooled twins
Up to 775cc singles based on Formula Rules in DSB, SB rules in DSS
Up to 450cc 2-stroke water-cooled twins
Up to 500cc 2-stroke air-cooled twins
*The TZR250 is allowed in D Superbike only and must conform to Superstock rules with the exception that slicks are allowed and no limits on bodywork. The VF500 is allowed in D Superbike only with stock displacement.
*There will be no bodywork or tire limitations in D Superstock. D Superstock bikes do not need to have DOT approval. All bikes may run slicks. FZR400’s may run 17” wheels.
E SUPERSTOCK EXPERT & NOVICE
200-250cc 4-stroke water-cooled twins
200-250cc 4-stroke air cooled twins
*No bodywork restrictions.
*No engine modifications allowed
*All bikes may upgrade to 17” wheels so long as they do not weigh less than the stock wheels for that model.
*Kickstand mounts may be cut off of frame.
LIGHTWEIGHT TWINS SUPERBIKE EXPERT & NOVICE and LIGHTWEIGHT TWINS SUPERSTOCK EXPERT & NOVICE
Up to 800cc air-cooled twins
Up to 750cc water-cooled twins with 3 valves
Up to 700cc water-cooled twins with more than 3 valves
Unlimited singles based on Formula rules (Superbike only)
-No 125cc GP machines,
*Buell Firebolt and Lightning, Ducati 900SS and any model using the 1000DS engine, are allowed under Superstock rules (with slicks) in LWTSB only.
*There are no bodywork limits in LWT.
HEAVYWEIGHT TWINS SUPERBIKE EXPERT & NOVICE and HEAVYWEIGHT TWINS SUPERSTOCK EXPERT & NOVICE
Unlimited displacement air-cooled, four stroke twins, (based on Formula rules in HWTSB)
Unlimited displacement water-cooled, four stroke twins, (under 900cc based on Formula rules in HWTSB)
Up to 700cc water cooled, four stroke triples
Any machine legal for Lightweight Twins
125cc & 250cc GP Machines in Superbike Only
*Up to 1050cc Triples based on Superstock rules will be allowed in HWT Superbike only.
*There are no bodywork limits in HWT.
FORMULA 1 EXPERT & NOVICE
Unlimited displacement machinery
FORMULA 2 EXPERT & NOVICE
Up to 396cc 2-stroke water-cooled twins
Up to 500cc 2-stroke air-cooled twins and multis
Up to700cc 4-stroke twins
Up to 600cc 4-stroke air-cooled multis
Up to 565cc 4-stroke water-cooled multis
Unlimited singles
All D Superbike and LWT (SS and SB) Machines (must retain orignal class legality)
125 GRAND PRIX (no Expert/Novice differentiation)
Up to 125cc 2-stroke Grand Prix machines
Up to 250cc 4-stroke engines in GP chassis
CLUBMAN EXPERT & NOVICE (all below based on Formula rules except as noted)
Unlimited displacement 2 & 4-stroke singles
Up to 605cc 4-stroke water-cooled twins
Up to 650cc 4-stroke air-cooled twins
Up to 250cc 4-stroke water-cooled multis
Up to 600cc 4-stroke air-cooled 2 valve per cylinder multis
Up to 570cc 4-stroke air-cooled 4 valve per cylinder multis
Up to 450cc 2-stroke air-cooled multis
Up to 396cc 2-stroke water-cooled multis
All Vintage 3 & 4 machines
*Honda Hawks and Air cooled Ducati 750’s, 250cc 2-stroke GP replica machines (TZR, NSR, RGV, etc..), Aprilia Cup, and Triumph Thruxton, are allowed but limited to Superstock mods with the exception that slicks are allowed., no Ducati Supermono. 125cc & 250cc GP machines are not allowed.
HEAVYWEIGHT SENIOR SUPERBIKE EXPERT & NOVICE
Up to B Superbike and A Superstock machinery.
All riders must be 40 years old or greater
MEDIUMWEIGHT SENIOR SUPERBIKE EXPERT & NOVICE
Up to C Superbike machinery.
All riders must be 40 years old or greater
WOMENS SUPERSTOCK EXPERT & NOVICE
Up to B Superbike and A Superstock machinery.
All riders must be female
SOLO CLASSES:
Heavyweight Expert & Novice - A & B Superstock, A & B Superbike, and Formula 1 machines
Mediumweight Expert & Novice - C Superstock, C Superbike, and Formula 2 machines
Lightweight Expert & Novice - 125 Grand Prix, Clubman, Lightweight Twins and D class machines.

[dave.gallant]

My point exactly, SV numbers are small, so propose a solution instead of taking your ball and going home..

You are new around these parts, eh?

Here is a hint: We proposed various things over the years and had a great deal of fun sitting in a room each and every October arguing about this very thing. This is not a new conversation whatsoever.

So, I applaud your enthusiasm and good luck storming the castle!

[hcr25]

I have said it before and I will say it again, let just outlaw all twins and those pesky two smokers and while we are at it no triples either and we will go get 600s and 1000s and we will all be one big happy family. :lol:
Eff diversity.

I actually like this idea. We have too many classes now and are proposing two more. Maybe we should allow the sv to race in the ninja 250 class. That way there would be another class for the sv to be competitive in. This would also show what it is like when a sv races against a 749r or 848.

[Hotrod]

(4 clinder 1000cc air cooled fuel injected turbocharged two stroke!)

Good for precisely said warm-up lap. Then.... BLAMMO!



But seriously, folks...
Why are people who have no dog in this fight so bent to change a group of classes that they don't even ride in? If you are so determined to ride an 848, go do it. There are multiple classes that it is arguably much more than just competitive in...
As the whole Glaefke thing demonstrates, and as mentioned above... the class rules are plenty loose as is to get any number of beautiful exotic machines to the grid. The spirit comment is directed at that... how much looser do you want it to be? It already is a GP class that is limited purely by displacement.( LWGP is anyway. STGTU isn't far from it.) Don't like it? Race in a bigger displacement class.

My SV would never be able to come to the grid in a spec class. There are so many things modified that it would at the very least be cost prohibitive to return to spec, if not flat out impossible.

The discussion was never "Lets make sure there is nothing in this class that can beat an sv."
It was "why the hell should we change the displacement limits?"
Just to let the 848 race? As stated by multiple people who have first hand experience with them, it is more than capable enough to race with the 600's. Personally I think the performance is more in line with a well set up 750... which are also a dying breed. Why not make HW an 848 class? All you have to do is show up to the grid? No rule changes required.
You want to talk grid attendance? How many people actually rolled a real live 750 I4 up to the starting grid this year?


I guess I just don't understand the desire to shoehorn this bike into LWGP, LWE and STGTU? Why? There are obviously other classes for it that have more parity. Makes me think that there must be some other reason... How much of an advantage do you need to have to be willing to race it? :roll:

[gsnyder828]

You want to talk grid attendance? How many people actually rolled a real live 750 I4 up to the starting grid this year?

Me... and maybe Crash a few times? Other than that - not many if any.

But then again - I think I may also be the only guy with a supersport prepped SV... #-o

Eff it - I'm unloading them both and buying a 600 for next year. :twisted: I'm obviously going about bike choice all wrong. :lol:

[froth]

I'll just run a few more ponies down. Not like I'm in the tippy top anyhow.

[Scored51]

But seriously, folks... Why are people who have no dog in this fight so bent to change a group of classes that they don't even ride in?

Lincoln? Breathe... just breathe... no, just breathe.

If you look at the original posting on this thread, it is Scott, not Casey, who has made the suggested change. The same Scott that rides a Mod Vin legal Duc 748. I'm sure he has reasons for suggesting such a change, but the fact of the matter is he would be able to run his seriously overbored Ducati in LWGP. That's all.

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

We proposed various things over the years and had a great deal of fun sitting in a room each and every October arguing about this very thing. This is not a new conversation whatsoever.

I've saved the meeting notes since 2001. Should I post them?
<digression>Tony really ruined the fun @ one meeting back in, what, 2005? Oooshh.. </digression>

So, I applaud your enthusiasm and good luck storming the castle!

Or, perhaps, tilting at the windmills?