Allow 850 twins into Supertwins GTU

[dragos13]

Current rule: 2.4.1.3


3. SuperTwins GTU
- Up to 750 cc two cylinder, four stroke, four valve, water cooled
- Up to 250cc two stroke, two cylinder, water cooled
- Unlimited displacement, two cylinder, four stroke, two valves per cylinder, air cooled
- Unlimited displacement single cylinder, four stroke


Proposed Revision:

3. SuperTwins GTU
- Up to 850 cc two cylinder, four stroke, four valve, water cooled
- Up to 250cc two stroke, two cylinder, water cooled
- Unlimited displacement, two cylinder, four stroke, two valves per cylinder, air cooled
- Unlimited displacement single cylinder, four stroke


As SuperTwins is a modern bike class, not a vintage class I make the proposal with the following in mind.

1) There is only one bike in current production that is eligible for this class, the Kawasaki EX650.

2) The Ducati 848 is eligible in EVERY other middleweight class

3) GTU denotes this class as a middleweight, not a lightweight class.

The Ducati 749 is no longer produced (750cc twin)
The SV650 is no longer produced (650cc twin)

These were the dominant bikes in this class in years past.

[dragos13]

Scotty just because there are no 2010 sv650s does not mean it is not current, there were no 2010 Suzuki but there will still be a SV when production resumes and lets not forget the EX650 not to mention all the chinese knockoffs of the SVs that could run in STGTU.
Bumping the twins to 850 just for the Duck makes no sense for me, if Suke and Kawaki make a larger cc twin OK but we are talking about making what would in essence be a 848 class which would be OK to do a 848 spec class if you want.

[dragos13]

I am with ^ Bart ^

Opening it up to the Duck 848 would render pretty much everything else in the class obsolete... 369 lbs, 134 hp and 70lb-ft torque???

That thing will lay waste to 600's, and those decimate all comers on the sv... (unless Shannon is around)

[Hotrod]

Ha! You moved it while I was replying... Whoops. Thanks Casey!

[dragos13]

Ha! You moved it while I was replying... Whoops. Thanks Casey!

Now just if I was that fast on a bike...

[Munch]

As I am watching this one with interest... when do changes get approved or denied for 2011 race season?

[Scored51]

[quote="dragos13"]

The Ducati 749 is no longer produced (750cc twin)
The SV650 is no longer produced (650cc twin)

These were the dominant bikes in this class in years past.

The SV650 is still the reason there is a Twins GTU class, and they still dominate. Why throw a fox in the hen house?

[dragos13]

As I am watching this one with interest... when do changes get approved or denied for 2011 race season?

Around the end of November.

[Bartman]

Yet once again I have shown my lack of computer skills by not knowing how to move a tread.
Might be time for this old dog to get some training. :lol:

[rybo]

Yet once again I have shown my lack of computer skills by not knowing how to move a tread.
Might be time for this old dog to get some training. :lol:

Bart,

you probably move more tread than anyone else here, except maybe Mark E Mark....

[Bartman]

Ok so I can't spell either, I think I will just crack another beer that will help.

[racedk6]

Bart get back to work and quit drinkin on the clock!

[oldtimer]

As I am watching this one with interest... when do changes get approved or denied for 2011 race season?

Around the end of November.

Casey are we shooting for October 17th for the rules change meeting? I don't know when that gets firmed up. @Munch that's open to everyone to attend and give input.

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

Casey are we shooting for October 17th for the rules change meeting? I don't know when that gets firmed up.

Although I appreciate the enthusiasm, I think that's a little too soon. If you're going to follow the usual process (http://forums.mra-racing.org/viewtopic.php?t=9464 for example) then I'd actually say mid-November would be a better time. Last year notwithstanding, I found that giving more time for proposals and discussion after the season was over tended to get more people involved and more ideas brought forward.

[dragos13]

I'll be talking to Johnny B tonight to figure out a date. It should be sometime around the end of October. This will give enough time to present the suggestions to the Board at the November meeting. Then, everything should be finalized and a summary will be posted around mid to end of November.

[Desmodromico]

Just a note on this from a guy with no dog in the fight, the sv650 has been replaced by the Gladius, which appears to use enough different parts that it would not be easy to race prep with sv stuff. That said the class killer now is a 749r which is damn close to an 848 in power and weight and far better set up chassis wise. Since Ducati is pretty much the only company making a middleweight twin now it seems only a matter of time for us to let it in.

[dave.gallant]

I love how we have the same argument for literally 10 years.

Viva la 749R!!

:roll:

[rybo]

I love how we have the same argument for literally 10 years.

Viva la 749R!!

:roll:

come on Dave, it wouldn't be an official rule change meeting without this debate.

[Bartman]

There is one very big difference now Dave, you can make a SV into a 750 but as far as I know you can't get them up to 850 and lets face it in no way could you call a 848 middleweight. If we do this we will need to do what we have talked about for 10 years is make a light middle and heavy twins class, main problem I see is number of bikes just is not there to justify it.
Hell in light of Glenns suggestion in the need to maybe trim a few classes lets get rid of these pesky twins and we will all go 250 ninja racing oh wait those are twins to. CRAP :lol:

[dave.gallant]

I love arguing with Ben, but honestly I think we all have hashed this issue to death over the years. Maybe it is time to simply combine everything under GTO and then spec class the little bikes for the less money intensive fun?

[Scored51]

come on Dave, it wouldn't be an official rule change meeting without this debate.

Especially since rain tires got voted into super sport classes last year.

[dave.gallant]

Just wait until the full WSB traction control units show up on the Supersport grid next season.

Maybe there will be racing worth watching again in the Ninja cup class.

[Hotrod]

I love arguing with Ben, but honestly I think we all have hashed this issue to death over the years. Maybe it is time to simply combine everything under GTO and then spec class the little bikes for the less money intensive fun?

I will pitch a wall-eyed hissy-fit with a full blown case of the screamin' heebie-jeebies thrown in for good measure if we do away with the sv classes. :evil:

And trust you me, that won't be a pretty sight!

[dave.gallant]

I love arguing with Ben, but honestly I think we all have hashed this issue to death over the years. Maybe it is time to simply combine everything under GTO and then spec class the little bikes for the less money intensive fun?

I will pitch a wall-eyed hissy-fit with a full blown case of the screamin' heebie-jeebies thrown in for good measure if we do away with the sv classes. :evil:

And trust you me, that won't be a pretty sight!

Allowing the 749R did just that. You can race the SV in almost anything and call it an "SV Class". It will be just as competitive against a 110HP R6 as a 125HP Ducati whatever-it-is (air cooled 1000cc or 4 valve 749 new gen desmo).

But, I am not here to argue that point really. I rather argue with Sexy Ben about it anyways cause he is cute when he is mad.

(Did I mention I absolutely love Ducati's of almost every generation? I love SVs too....I am an equal opportunity hater on this topic. )

[T Baggins]

this is why we made LWGP basically an SV / EX class. get rid of the exotics (TZ, 749, etc...) and make it about racing again...

Anybody ever wonder...

If Ducati made a bike with "normal displacement" like everyone else - would it still be the class of the field?

Surely I'm not the only one to catch on to their "build a cheater bike (via displacement advantage) and put pressure on the racing organizations to allow it into classes we know it will dominate" technique employed by the bolognianians.

crafty little bastards they are... :lol: