Racing at Miller with the USBA in 2011?

[rybo]

We started this conversation at the general meeting on Wednesday night. I'd like to continue it here and get a feel for if we should schedule a combined round with the USBA for next season.

The USBA board has polled it's members and they would like to attend one of our rounds at HPR as well, but I think for the sake of this discussion it is irrelevant if they come here or not, this is about if you, our members, want to race at Miller next season or not.


Financially (for the club) it would NOT cost our club any additional funds to put on this event. For the away event the USBA would fund their own event and we would fund ours. No MRA staff would be "operational" at the event. We would use their pre-tech process, corner workers, ambulance etc.

This would likely REPLACE an existing round in the schedule, not add to the schedule. We've had a successful year with an 8 race schedule and it is my belief that we should continue that trend if possible.

So the real question is WOULD YOU ATTEND SUCH A RACE if we did it? Would the conditions be a factor?

Please vote in the poll above and let us know if you would be interested in doing this.

[glenngsxr]

1) USBA is a great club to race with. Very friendly and they have some fast folks out there as well.

2) Miller.....need I say more. It would add yet another track into the MRA arsenal.

3) I would suggest doing it early in the year, maybe round 3 or 4 while funds for most people are plentiful.

4) Try to get everyone together to share costs. Trailers, carpooling, lodging, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

[HAMMER]

Would we run our classes ? Or fit into there's ,,

Miller is a blast . Id go for sure

[rybo]

Their classes are substantially similar to ours, so we would run their classes and make a conversion for points to our season point totals.

S

[oldtimer]

If this gets serious, I would ask if we could go for MoM's May perimeter round. They've been scheduling it just before the Lucas Oils Superbike Challenge (in conjunction with WSBK), which is also run on the perimeter course. Quite a few of our riders have raced the LOSC in the last 2 years, this would give our guys an advantage in 2011. Also that course is supposed to be amazing.

[The GECCO]

The USBA board has polled it's members and they would like to attend one of our rounds at HPR as well, but I think for the sake of this discussion it is irrelevant if they come here or not, this is about if you, our members, want to race at Miller next season or not.

Their classes are substantially similar to ours, so we would run their classes and make a conversion for points to our season point totals.

If this is the case, I don't think it's irrelevant whether or not they reciprocate by having a points round here.

This was a major sticking point when I tried to negotiate a similar deal a few years ago. The problem is that if we (MRA) hold a points event by basically blending into their event, you are forcing our members to earn MRA points by participating in an event that is not governed by the MRA. The outcome of any disputes, etc would be out of the control of our officials. My opinion is such a thing should only be imposed on our members if the other club is willing to reciprocate. They are getting the benefit of our members filling their grids, we should get the same in return.

I'm pretty sure I can dig up the string of emails that went back and forth between me and the USBA officials, it may serve as a good starting point in the discussions as we had all the class combination details fully worked out. It fell apart when their members voted against doing a reciprocal points round in Colorado. If I can find them I'll forward the relevant parts.

[KFinn]

Some comments were brought up at the meeting. I would like to add one of them I can remember for those that were not present.

1. If they could come as close as possible to our race class entry fees and Friday track day fees it would help. If they are too high it could seal the death for those who or on the borderline of going.

2. MRA members carpooling to help cost of travel.


I personally would LOVE to go to Miller once in my lifetime. And if I can go at no cost to our club and still earn points in my race for it?!?! That is a sweet deal. Just not sure I can swing a 1000.00 race weekend for it though. (I am sure this is also the case for others) I could see squeezing out 300-600 though.

[Hotrod]

1) USBA is a great club to race with. Very friendly and they have some fast folks out there as well.

2) Miller.....need I say more. It would add yet another track into the MRA arsenal.

3) I would suggest doing it early in the year, maybe round 3 or 4 while funds for most people are plentiful.

4) Try to get everyone together to share costs. Trailers, carpooling, lodging, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

Agreed on all points.
Great that it is at no cost to our club.



HOWEVER


All these great things are still true if you just go race one round with them on your own. Making it a round on our schedule forces anyone who wants to compete for a championship position to go. The distance raises costs in more ways than just fuel. It would require me to take additional time off from work. Car pooling won't fix that.

The way I see it, other than more of them coming out to fill our grids at our reciprocal event... we gain absolutely nothing over just going on our own without making it a "required" round on our schedule.

I understand that some people have a lot more disposable income and free time than I do. Great! That's life... But go race it on your own. Using that extra income and time off to "force" me to choose between points and other responsibilities isn't cool.

I don't think miller is a do-able round for me. That makes me start out my season knowing that I can forget about any shot at a decent points total for the year.
That puts a bad taste in my mouth before the season even starts and I am sure that I am not the only one that doesn't like the thought of being stretched over a barrel like that.

[Scored51]

Their classes are substantially similar to ours, so we would run their classes and make a conversion for points to our season point totals. S

And what about the classes that aren't substantially similar, like the proposed Ninja 250 class, and other small displacement bikes?

Based on our previous experience going to Miller and running our own event, I can't see how it's possible to think this could turn out any differently than the last time. The attendance was dismal, and that was all before we were blaming the economy for our shrinking numbers. It may not cost the club anything due to an arrangement with USBA, but the members of our club will be forced to shell out travel expenses that directly equate to running at least an additional round here in Colorado. However, when the idea of adding an additional round for 2011 was suggested at the general meeting it was deemed, "Not a good idea due to the economy, finances, etc."

The opportunity costs are high as well. Why would the club want to give up nearly 15% of it's ability to generate revenue throughout the year just to run at Miller? Jeff Brown pointed out at the meeting that up until this year there was a regular contingent from the MRA traveling to compete in the MoM series. Why they have stopped? If those who were dedicated to racing at Miller without our club aren't traveling, how are we to convince those who didn't want to travel before hand?

[HAMMER]

Even to run it with no points would be fun .

[racedk6]

Even to run it with no points would be fun .

Lol you are just saying we go run it on our own and not with the MRA then

[JWinter]

Is this really what we want to do??? Hastings was closer, had our schedule, our point classes, and we still had a poor turnout.


We experts who fight year after year will do this...But the novices which we NEED to help make a race weekend work will more than likely not travel. Near as I can tell that was our demise at Hastings was the lack of novices showing up that far away.

We all have worked hard and spent alot of $$ to get the club back into a healthy state, why would we take a chance and do this??? If this flops how much money are we going to lose? Even if track rental cost is the same, what is going to be the magic number for riders? 120 riders signed up? This has disaster written all over it. If memory serves me, we had a poor turnout the one and only time we tried this before at Miller.

Let's put our efforts into something else that we can all benefit from. I have yet to hear people talk about how the contingency keeps getting less and less. When are we going to address that? We need to attract more attention to our club, which will bring more money in and hopefully in the form of cash payouts or more vendors offering contingency. This is how the AMA survives or other organizations for that matter.

My 2 cents, Jeff

[froth]

I raced at Miller the first time(when we went, we raced, we lost our shirts), and it has a special place for me, 'cause I got my knee down for the first time there.

That being said, after reflection, they have not really come out here, essentially ever. So, if we go for it, I'll do it if I can swing the money, because it WILL be a lot of fun. Again, they don't seem to travel well.

If the economy turns rapidly around.....ignore everything I just said, I'll be there.

[oldtimer]

Throwing in my .02....personally I don't think the club should travel yet. Let's finish this year strong and build on our recovery in 2011.

[Jon]

As far as you guys running the perimeter track be forewarned that that round was a combined round with WERA with them helping to foot the bill for the perimeter track. if indeed the MRA showed up to that would be a huge turnout but the combining of all your,(MRA) our (USBA) and their(WERA) classes may become a problem. However as far as I know the USBA classes are very similar to yours and so that wouldn't be but your super stock(sport) classes don't transfer very well over to theirs and the rules between the two aren't always going in the same direction.
Lastly, the Mra regardless has seemed to always not be so much of a club that like's traveling so you can't always bank on the early season enthusiasm. Hope to see it happen though as I still have a few friends amongst you. You guys will love the track and the club as it's truly world class.

[Fairbanks]

I will be there if its on the schedule

I agree we should be there. Truly world class track. I raced the MRA event (first and only) there and it was epic. Racing to save lives has always been a good time but not like racing. Just do it!

[N1K]

Full course and I'm there. EVEN if its the only race I run I'm there. Just need to know When forsure forsure so I can get off work now.

[rforsythe]

We all have worked hard and spent alot of $$ to get the club back into a healthy state, why would we take a chance and do this??? If this flops how much money are we going to lose? Even if track rental cost is the same, what is going to be the magic number for riders? 120 riders signed up? This has disaster written all over it. If memory serves me, we had a poor turnout the one and only time we tried this before at Miller.

Like the man with the shiny head said, it would cost the MRA $0 as the club would simply piggyback onto a USBA round. The MRA puts out no money for it whatsoever. The only potential loss is profit from a round here, which has existed this year but not massively.

The question is really how many would go each way to do it. Those in a points chase would have to, but that also goes both ways (i.e. USBA points leaders would have to come here, which helps generate revenue as well).

I think fiscally it may not be a big deal. Whether racers from each club would attend if points were on the line (or just for fun), I don't know. USBA riders that have been at HPR love it and were talking about it when Rybo and I were out there. MRA riders of course like the Miller track (who wouldn't?) and I know a bunch of us have been on it already. Whether either side will suck up the added $200 in fuel to run it en masse, I don't know.

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

...personally I don't think the club should travel yet. Let's finish this year strong and build on our recovery in 2011.

I'm with Wyeth & Jeff.

I can't remember if we've ever had a financially successful event out of state. The last Hastings event almost cratered the season because of poor turnout. And it was a double header!

Also, I'll echo what Todd is saying - in that if we force MRA participation by making MMP a points event, we'll likely get more MRA racers blowing off home events due to being out of the points. In effect, we could decrease our regular MRA race attendance by having an MMP event.

For those who want to go to a USBA event, pay their entry fees, use their tech, staff, and run their classes, why not just go? The *only* downside is that you won't get MRA points for racing with another club - is that so important?

[Hotrod]

For those who want to go to a USBA event, pay their entry fees, use their tech, staff, and run their classes, why not just go? The *only* downside is that you won't get MRA points for racing with another club - is that so important?

Precisely where I was going with that.

And you are correct, if I am out of contention any way, then I will just pick and choose a couple of rounds that look like fun and take the family fishing and camping the rest of the time.

[glenngsxr]

The USBA folks have not come out here because we have not had a track worth coming out here for...until HPR. If you were in Utah, with Miller in your backyard, would you make a special trip out to Pueblo? Probably not.

All this discussion has brought up some good points and I think there is enough negative interest to assume that this will just not fly at the moment.

We have a new 250 spec class coming on board hopefully. The economy still sucks for a lot of folks. Let's hold off on this one until we are in better financial shape.

With that being said, it does not have to be a political battle over which club goes to which clubs rounds or anything like that. We just tell USBA that we have to be conservative right now and it just won't make sense for the MRA.

Glenn #62

[Clarkie]

There have been a few USBA racer's make the trip to HPR so it isnt really fair to say they havent, when they have, by themselves, with no incentive but to ride the track

[Desmodromico]

Ok everybody needs to remember the MRA can't lose money at this deal, so it comes down to racers paying to go there.

Look at how many people were quick to say yes to PPIR at the meeting, well here is a track with better amenities AND safety! Yes it is 8 hours away but come on, how many if you could split gas and pack into trailers, split hotels, cook at the track etc. If it meant running at that facility?

[peteyt328]

I might have said no before seeing the track... after going to WSBK, I would definitely give up a local race or a couple track days to make it out there!

[Bartman]

Ok everybody needs to remember the MRA can't lose money at this deal, so it comes down to racers paying to go there.

Look at how many people were quick to say yes to PPIR at the meeting, well here is a track with better amenities AND safety! Yes it is 8 hours away but come on, how many if you could split gas and pack into trailers, split hotels, cook at the track etc. If it meant running at that facility?

OH yes we can lose money if we go to Miller, while it is true the weekend will be run by the USBA and will not cost the MRA as a club to go but the expense for a racer to go there just in travel expenses will almost be the cost of a whole MRA weekend. SOOO that means some people may not be able to come to some of the MRA rounds which will cost us money.
For me it makes no sense for the MRA to go as a club, to much to lose with nothing to gain. I have been to Miller many of times and run all configs exept perimiter and would love to go back but if and when I do go I will just run with the USBA. It is just that simple, if you want to go to any track just GO and race there you do not need the MRA to be there.