New Class Proposal - Ninja 250 Cup

[racedk6]

You guys are almost making me want one of these things

[Hotrod]

*almost*

[racedk6]

*almost*

Almost is because they will make me start at the back of the grid because im the lightest person in the MRA

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

While I do like the NO MODIFICATION IS PERMITTED, if I am picking up a wrecked old style 250, I'm not going to want to source good parts to replace something like a smashed plastic undertail, or fubared seat....while it could be looked at as weight reduction to remove and not replace said broken parts, or to fabricate similar parts, I really don't want to get nickel and dimed to death replacing a bunch of factory parts on a track bike that doesn't have a title and that I will probably just wreck again anyway.

AFM production rule 9.1.6.n)
Seat, seat base and associated bodywork may be replaced with parts similar in appearance to original, stock parts. Seat brackets may be added, but not removed from the frame. Profile may be changed to allow for proper number display.

BTW, if nobody has yet, I'd also suggest getting in contact with WSMC and see how their ninja cup series is doing and what issues they've had.

WSMC web - https://my.wsmcracing.com/ti/wsmc/wsmc.html
and an example forum discussion - http://my.wsmcracing.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=248

[oldtimer]

Let me say upfront that, due to laziness, I've ignored Brewer's excellent suggestions to read the provided-for-me 250 rules from other orgs.

And based on zero information on what other clubs are doing 8)....I like the idea of allowing the 1st Gen 250's to upgrade their 16" wheels to the stock 2nd Gen 17" wheels ala Dave's above suggestion. Because it would allow guys to buy really really cheap (if slow) old 250's and still run modern tires.

[T Baggins]

The guy I bought the 5 ninja's from races WSMC and has offered his advice on the rules as well... I'll ping him for more info.

[jmaher]

^^ Scott and i were talking about this, from what i gather it is pretty straight forward to fit new style wheels to an older 2fiddy, with some machined spacers. If it is indeed that simple, we could add a clause saying that 08-10 year factory 250 wheels would be legal to retrofit onto xx-07 model year bikes, using these (specified) spacers...
.

Dave,

Is there a website or something to look at it? Does anyone make a bolt on kit for this change to the 17" wheels?

Joe

[Louden]

1.So I can use all of the following on my ninja 250?
a.Hot bodies body work = $500
b.Leo Vince full Exhaust system = $730
c.Dyno jet kit = $85
d.Suspension springs and valves Race tech
i.Fork emulator kit $170
iiFork springs $110
iii.Required stuff to rebuild
1.Fork oil $30
2.Inner and outer fork bushings $50
3.Seals $40
e.Brake lines: Front and rear galfer steel braded brake lines $100
f.Rearsets: Sato racing $425
gClip ons: Wood craft $160
h.Levers: Pazzo levers $180
i.Tires: about $250
j.Brake pads: EBC HH $66
kChain and sprockets: about$170
l.Old generation bike can have everything listed above as well as
i.17 inch wheels: Cost I have no idea ?
m.So that would equal about $3000 dollars worth of additions that would be within the rules.

2.Sense we can pretty much change everything but the motor can I use a Hyusong GTR 250r?

3.Wasn’t the whole point of this to make it cheap and all but equal?
a.I suggest everything OEM except
i.Bodywork: Must be in OEM styling
ii.Tires:Street legal
iii.Brake pads: Does not matter because if you use these in this class you’ll lose anyway
iv.Bike must match OEM weight

[Bartman]

Louden just because you can put on rearsets clipons levers does not mean you have to and the main reason for doing so is cost down the road when you crash, holding everyone to stock pieces is just plain stupid and clipons and levers will make no diff to lap times, rearsets might because of ground clearance but I raced my 03 600 with stock rears and cut short pegs and had no issues.
We need to allow springs at the very least in the suspension to get the bikes safe to ride for the BIG guys and I think some of you are missing where this class will be cheap is not in the bike or the bike build itself but in the actual running of the bike, unless you are Turpin and change tires every lap :lol: a set of tires should last damn near all season and brakes will be almost lifetime.
If I build one of these it will have a pipe front springs jet kit front brake line(maybe)and bodywork(oh and the cheater motor of course) and thats it, oh and some krylon for the paint.

[rybo]

Louden,

Just for comparison I did the following:

I went to my local Kawi dealer and asked what the replacement cost for the following parts were:

1) Handlebars
2) Rearset parts (footpeg, shift, brake levers and brackets)

What I came up with is the price differential between the stock and aftermarket parts was exactly $2.00

This was at retail prices that anyone can buy any of the parts at.

I see your point, but should we then also limit how much you can spend on your paint job?

These parts do not (drastically) affect the performance of the motorcycle and replacing them (in my case) means that I actually spend LESS money on spares because I can use the parts that I already carry around for my other bike to fix this one instead of having to stock both types of parts.

Scott

[Louden]

Your right Scott the price of the parts from the dealership are nearly the same, but I want you to consider the original motorycle comes with all of these stock parts the day you buy it. Therefore if you buy aftermarket stuff you could have purchased a complete set of OEM spares.

Now you said this stuff will not drastically change performance, but based on the link I have added below, adding an exhaust system could add 2 to 8 horse power. On a bike that only makes 25 horse power I would consider that pretty significant. Of course I don't know how accurate this is, but I'm sure Bart would know.

http://www.kawiforums.com/ninja-250r...t-options.html

In closing, If the only reason why I lose this race is because of you have a better paint than I do, I would say we have created the perfect set of rules.

[T Baggins]

...In closing, If the only reason why I lose this race is because of you have a better paint than I do, I would say we have created the perfect set of rules.

EXACTAMUNDO! =D>

[Bartman]

Louden I went and looked at your link and the data he is using is hopelessly flawed since he is using the pipe companys data to come up with the #s. To date no one has lived up to what the claimed #s said. I can tell you from my own experiments that the full muzzy pipe makes 28ish and that a modified slipon fmf made 29 and I will let you know what the area Ps do in a few days as I have 3 in the shop right now.

[chrobis]

Bart - What are you seeing from stock motors (er, pipes)?

[Bartman]

I have run two bone stockers and both did 24 all stock.

[Louden]

I suppose Scott is right most of this stuff doesn't make that much of a difference.

I guess I was just hoping I could build one bike and use it for a long time without having to compete in the arms race, and forever eliminate any discrepancies on where I finished on anything other than myself.

Thank you for all the research and consideration.

[T Baggins]

I guess I was just hoping I could build one bike and use it for a long time without having to compete in the arms race, and forever eliminate any discrepancies on where I finished on anything other than myself.

I believe that is the whole intent of the class... mine has a stock shock, stock forks, stock handlebars, stock levers, foot pegs, etc... I'm gonna race it that way till I break shit - and then I'll replace it with whatever makes the most sense at the time.

[Bartman]

Tony when was the last time you crashed, you will prolly wear shit out before you break it. :lol:

[dave.gallant]

I'll crash it on his behalf. He isn't getting any younger dontchaknow...

[rybo]

Louden,

I agree, the whole idea behind this class is for it to NEVER become an arms race.

To that end my bike currently has:

Aftermarket Exhaust (Area P about $450 for a full system)
Aftermarket clip ons (woodcraft)
Stock Shock
Stock Forks
Stock Rearsets

and that's it

I'm certain that this is going to be a lot of fun and I'll have nothing to blame but myself for being slow.

Get one, come race with us. This is going to be a blast.

[Bartman]

Louden,

I agree, the whole idea behind this class is for it to NEVER become an arms race.

To that end my bike currently has:

Aftermarket Exhaust (Area P about $450 for a full system)
Aftermarket clip ons (woodcraft)
Stock Shock
Stock Forks
Stock Rearsets

and that's it

I'm certain that this is going to be a lot of fun and I'll have nothing to blame but myself for being slow.

Get one, come race with us. This is going to be a blast.

As a arms dealer I think this is a bad idea, I always want the bigger gun or in this case a derringer. :twisted:

[rybo]

As a arms dealer I think this is a bad idea, I always want the bigger gun or in this case a derringer. :twisted:

I was thinking slingshot

[rybo]

first round of revision - will bring a printed copy for everyone to the RC meeting on the 17th

** Tony has added to this since Rybo posted it.


Class: Ninja 250 cup class
Type: Amateur (novice / expert combined)- Sprint

Bike must be a Kawasaki Ninja 250 (EX250) to qualify for this class. All years of this model are allowed.

In the interest of creating parity in the class ONLY the following modifications are allowed.

1: Bike must comply with safety standards listed in section 5.2 EXCEPT that the Ninja 250 does NOT require a steering damper. A steering damper, however, MAY be added at the riders discretion.

2: No engine modifications of any kind are permitted. Engine must remain as delivered from the factory. No slotting of cam sprockets, no allowance for overbore, no porting, no shaving, no decking, etc.

3: The stock airbox / air filter / intake snorkel must remain in place and connected. No modification of the airbox / air filter is permitted.

4: Bodywork, windscreen, fairing stay, and bodywork mounting brackets may be replaced with parts of unlimited origin. Relieving bodywork for clearance of hand or foot controls, exhaust, and frame sliders IS allowed.

5: Exhaust system, including exhaust bracket assembly, may be replaced with parts of unlimited origin.

6: Carburetor jetting consisting of Main Jet, Pilot Jet, Needle and Slide hole size may be changed. No other modifications are allowed.

7: The PAIR valve may be blocked.

8: Suspension may be modified with different springs / valves / oil, but the stock rear shock body and stock fork tubes must be retained. Preload adjusters may be added to the forks. Rear ride height may be altered or adjustable.

9: Brake pads may be replaced with parts of unlimited origin, but brake calipers and rotors must be stock.

10: Brake lines (hoses) may be replaced with parts of unlimited origin.

11: Controls, footpegs, rearsets, handlebars, clip on's, levers may be replaced with parts of unlimited origin. Brake master cylinders and throttle control must remain as stock.

12: External gearing may be changed consisting of chain and sprockets only. These parts may be replaced with parts of unlimited origin

13: Tires may be replaced with parts of unlimited origin.

14: On bikes manufactured 2007 or before the following additional modifications are permitted

a: Wheels may be replaced with OEM 2008 and up 17" Ninja 250 wheels.
b: Rear shock may be replaced with an OEM 2008 and up Ninja 250 Shock

15: Only parts which are not critical to bodywork or integral support may be removed - but they must be removed at the stock mounting/bolting point. Cutting of materials or frame parts is SPECIFICALLY forbidden, excepting the kick-stand bracket. It may be cut off for ground clearance purposes.

16: Stock charging system must be fully connected and functional at all times.

17. Only DOT approved, street legal, pump gas may be used. NO race gas or performance additives are allowed. At the MRA's discretion, fuel may be supplied to competitors at the prevailing market price.

18. Instrument cluster may be removed, and gauges may be replaced with parts of unlimited origin.

[lars]

Man, i can't wait!

[jmaher]

I think I may have found my older (and really cheap) 250. Is there anyone out there that could help me with the conversion to the 17" front wheel?

Joe