An idea for radical change in the structure of the MRA

[The GECCO]

So, someone once told me that no idea was too stupid to say out loud and I'm gonna test that theory. But first let me say that I am in NO WAY badmouthing the way things are currently done, I think Tony and the rest of the current board are doing nothing short of performing miracles, I just wanna put out food for thought.

I'm not saying that this idea is the best thing since sliced bread, that it will solve the world's problems and anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot...but it has it's merits and should definitely stimulate some discussion.

What brought this on was looking at they way some other successful clubs (mainly WERA) run their show combined with the constant discussions regarding how to get MORE people to come race with the MRA. Most of the ideas to attract more riders seem to be associated with creating new specialty classes (LoR, Sportsman and now the Ninja 250 idea). I'm not saying these are bad ideas, but here's another view - how about trying to attract a larger number of riders who would race in existing classes by giving them a better value for their dollar, and by making the championship chases more interesting?

How do we do that? Instead of creating more and more classes, we eliminate a few and trim the schedule such that every weekend is a double header.

Right now we have 25 classes if you count the four endurance classes. We spread them out over a 2 day program and each class has one chance per weekend to earn points. Instead of creating even more classes to cater to certain bikes I say we shave some classes, get back to the basics, and run the same schedule twice each weekend. My proposed schedule would include the following classes (not run in this order):

LWSB (new class)
LWGP
MWSS
MWSB
OSS
OSB
STGTO
STGTU
MVGTO
MVGTU/LoR
Sportsman/Colorado Class
RoR
SuperStreet

I can hear you now - WHAT HAPPENED TO THE NOVICE CLASSES?!?! Well, RoR would be experts only. LoR, Sportsman and Colorado Class would be run as Amateur classes, with novices and experts running against each other for position. All other classes would have the novices and experts running at the same time but scored separately with the experts in the first wave and the novices in the second wave. Some might think this sounds suicidal, but WERA and AFM have been doing this for years and they have plenty of uber fast experts dealing with the traffic just fine.

Right now our Sunday schedule has two hours of practice and 91 laps of racing. The above classes (with LoR/MVU and Sportsman/Colorado Class staying combined) would be 98 laps of racing. You could run this program on both days. Riders get more track time for their dollar and DNF's don't hurt so bad in a championship chase, which could lead to more riders sticking around for the whole season instead of giving up after one or two bad weekends.

Also, the four hour endurance was a RAGING success. With this type of schedule you could put on an 8 event season (ie, 8 weekends) and on maybe 3-4 of those weekends you only run a single header with the other day being dedicated to a 6 or 8 hour endurance race.

OR, if you wanted to stay with the 4 hour format you could break them up in the following way. On a particular weekend you do this:
- Saturday: run 50% of the sprint classes, then a 4 hour endurance
- Sunday: run 100% of the sprint classes

Then on another weekend later in the season:
- Saturday: run the OTHER 50% of the sprint classes, then a 4 hour endurance
- Sunday: run 100% of the sprint classes

All classes would still have the same number of points rounds, etc.

Whaddya think? Let's get some discussion going and see if we can either turn this into something that REALLY works, or poke enough holes in it that it's dead and buried.

Or, you can just tell me to shut up and go away.... :shock:

[froth]

I love the long endurance, so anyting that puts longer enduro on is great with me.

[racedk6]

I wouldnt mind this

[jmaher]

As a newer/slower rider, I just don't want to be a rolling speed bump hazard getting in the way of the uber fast riders in the sprint races.

Joe

[Scored51]

I like the idea as it gives novices far more opportunity to race and we could have the Super Street riders on both days. Meaning they would be eligible to move into a race license after only one weekend.

The idea for running novices as a second wave was proposed last year. Unfortunately, it didn't gain the support it needed at the open rule change meeting to move forward. Hopefully that will change this year.

Glenn - Were you thinking to eliminate the heavyweight classes as they aren't listed, or is there still room in a daily schedule run twice over the weekend? Since you used Sunday as the example, would we also be cutting down Saturday's practice to just the two rounds per session?

[The GECCO]

Glenn - Were you thinking to eliminate the heavyweight classes as they aren't listed, or is there still room in a daily schedule run twice over the weekend?

Planned to eliminate it since it has essentially become a 600 race.

Since you used Sunday as the example, would we also be cutting down Saturday's practice to just the two rounds per session?

Yup, both days would be an identical schedule - two rounds of practice then the classes listed above.

[toptier]

I like the idea, especially the double header part. I always thought that we had too many classes. And some of the classes it seem like there are never more then 10 people entered.

[oldtimer]

Since things are going so much better this year I question the reasoning for a massive overhaul?

For example, altho our single 3 Hour Endurance event was a success, our four regular 30 Minute Solo Endurance classes are extremely popular. 2010 stats to date show 52-72% of our racers entering one of those classes every weekend.

I would want to hear more discussion from those racers about changing their 30 Minute Solo Endurance races. Those classes are currently very important to the club.

[jplracing]

Wyeth

I have made these comments to a number of riders and a few board members. I would LOVE to do a team style endurance series next year in place of the solo series. To that end I already have a team of MRA racers lined up ready to build a bike (s) for a longer team style event.

All-

I would be very hesitant in eliminating the novice/am classes. My biggest concern that the new crop of racers we get every year may not have the experience or personal network to understand that they can race other classes while still being a newb. I think it could create a much bigger PR loss than gain

Joe

[Scored51]

2010 stats to date show 52-72% of our racers entering one of those classes every weekend.

Is it possible to see what percentages of endurance racers are signing up for sprint races as well? I suspect the popularity of the endurance series is based on the fact that registration is only $60 for 30 minutes of racing versus $150 for a 12 minute sprint. A rider also gets more practice for endurance than any sprint race. This would also explain why the club has seen the average revenue per rider has fall from last season.

[jplracing]

and one additional thought

If we were to make every weekend a double header...wouldnt we also be doubling our individual racing expenses? The reason I bring this is up that for the last several years we have been hearing one of the biggest road blocks to join the MRA was the expense. So if this is actually true, then I would assume we would have much fewer racers able to afford the entire season.

Joe

[spideyrdr]

A question I have had about double header weekends is how feasible it will be for the majority of the club to make it out for both days every weekend in order to remain competitive in a points race. With family, religion, work, or other obligations, I frankly wondered if you'd end up with racers who come Saturday and racers who come Sunday. And then you'd have the racers who can come both days and waltz away with the points lead.

Dedication is one thing but it's another thing when racers WILL NOT be able to come out both days due to other very meaningful obligations.

[Munch]

Removed

[The GECCO]

Since things are going so much better this year I question the reasoning for a massive overhaul?

But, the majority of the reason things are better is excellent cost cutting, not necessarily improved attendance

For example, altho our single 3 Hour Endurance event was a success, our four regular 30 Minute Solo Endurance classes are extremely popular. 2010 stats to date show 52-72% of our racers entering one of those classes every weekend.

I would want to hear more discussion from those racers about changing their 30 Minute Solo Endurance races. Those classes are currently very important to the club.

Yes, they are. They are popular because they give good value, which is what this plan is trying to accomplish - giving more laps per dollar.

[oldtimer]

But, the majority of the reason things are better is excellent cost cutting, not necessarily improved attendance

I'd have to see numbers from last year, but yes I believe we have had improved attendance in 2010. Our attendance has been remarkably consistent this year, which is was not in 2009.

Yes, they are. They are popular because they give good value, which is what this plan is trying to accomplish - giving more laps per dollar.

To help me understand, are you saying if I enter Middleweight Supersport I get two races for the price of one? One on Sat and one on Sun?

[The GECCO]

To help me understand, are you saying if I enter Middleweight Supersport I get two races for the price of one? One on Sat and one on Sun?

Yup! Obviously some hard number crunching would have to be done to determine if the revenue lost from endurance would be replaced by increased participation, etc, w/o an increase in fees. But I think even a small increase in fees would be viewed as a good value if the racing opportunities were doubled.

My thinking is this - we are trying to find ways to increase participation, to draw in more customers. How many potential riders are out there that can afford to race but don't because they don't feel that 8 races per season is worth it. How many of them would take the plunge if there were 16 races?

I don't know either :? but it seems racers are gravitating towards anything that gives them more value, that's where this idea came from. It would definitely hinge on generating more VOLUME of racers.

[T Baggins]

I can barely manage 3 races a weekend physically or financially as it is, doing a double header each weekend would be a burden for me - not a benefit.

but that's just me. 8)

[JohnGarc]

That is what is so attractive about the MRA is the solo Endurance events at $60 a pop.

I say keep the solo endurance races and have maybe 1 or 2 Long 3-8 hour? endurance race events per year. By eliminating endurance altogether, its possible I won't be racing with the MRA.

Another thing, if you want to encourage more people to race, why not pump up the Colorado class???? Anyone can race an old bike with this class while not having to think about the expense of buying an 10, or 11 bike...

Just some food for thought.

[Scored51]

Another thing, if you want to encourage more people to race, why not pump up the Colorado class???? Anyone can race an old bike with this class while not having to think about the expense of buying an 10, or 11 bike...

It's not quite any old bike on Colorado Class, but it is the cheapest class going and a competitive race bike could be bought for $1,000 (already prepped). Jeff Winter also proved this last weekend that a completely unsorted CRF450 conversion can win in the class right now. (ed note: I know Jeff normally races his RS, but that's still only a CRF at heart.)

[JohnGarc]

That is what I am saying... Lets build up some Cafe Racers and head to the track... Talk about loads of fun....

[cromer611]

as most of us racers are working in the motorcycled industry, and get screwed to race saturday, i would rather just race sunday. eliminate some classes and have maybe 1 practice season per novice/exp etc... we practice enough with trackdays and fridays practice. so the club would only have to rent the track for one day rather than two? i suppose is a good way to save money too.

[The GECCO]

That is what I am saying... Lets build up some Cafe Racers and head to the track... Talk about loads of fun....

I agree.....the problem is not very many others do. If they did, they would already be here.

What I'm saying is that MOST people want to race what they already ride and/or what they see racing on TV - 600's, 1000's and twins. That's our core customer. If we create a better value for that core customer we should be able to draw more of them to the track.

[kamper11]

Build up some cafe racers - YES

As 1 of the 2 vintage CB 160's that were out the past 2 races - I whole heartedly agree! The vintage thing got off to a slower start than expected - bike builds/injury and one of the primary riders relocating to Europe.

That said - there were 2 in Co Class last race - there are 2 more bikes to hit the track - but a new baby will likely delay one of them.

There is still interest, and an additional 2 more bikes in different build stages. And another 2 for winter projects.

That totals 6 - 8 to start next season and possibly more...

John, Gecco - jump in - the more the merrier - and riding a slow bike as fast as it can go is quite fun!! Not only that but the cheap and fun factor is high here - for $2K - give or take - you can have a race ready vintage 160/175 - with modern compound tires that last the entire season and likely longer. Gas and reg fees are the annualized costs.

Please feel free to PM me - as I have ideas of how to kickstart this and create some additional track time for us vintage guys to tune, tweak and ride our cool bikes!

[jmaher]

Being on a budget, I want to race more and am not against the idea of a second race bike in my garage but cannot afford another big one. The idea of a ready to go race bike for around 2k and tires that last most of the season is intriging. Who would I contact about a bike like this? Is there a Kawaski that fits in that catagory? That said, the biggest thing that hurt$ me is the cost of sprint races which is why I only do the 30 minute endurance races on Saturday at Byers. At PPIR and Pueblo I can do the Sprint races as I live down here and travel costs etc go down significantly so I can race both days.

Joe

[rybo]

Damn Glenn, would you shut up and go away? (just kidding)

Glenn, it's obvious that you've put a lot of thought into this and I wanted to do the same, so I've been giving this idea a lot of thought and stole some research from our esteemed rider rep, Wyeth Jackson, in the process.

At present the solo endurance classes account for almost 20% of our weekend revenue.

At the last round there were approx 135 racers, with 90 of them participating in at least one endurance race.

If I look at it from that perspective our current solo endurance series is a raging success and eliminating it in our regular race schedule would be a HUGE gamble. I personally don't like it from that perspective.


From my perspective as a racer: I currently race:

Supertwins O
Mod Vin O
Mod Vin U
Colorado Class

at every round and

An endurance race and an ROR race at some rounds (as my schedule allows)

With the new structure I would go from racing 4-5 classes a weekend to 8-10. On the surface that looks like a great deal and offers a lot of tracktime for the money. To expand my program by that amount would likely require a second set of tires each weekend, which would make my current schedule unfeasible. As a result I would reduce my schedule in order to remain in the points in the classes that I would consider important.

The end result for me would be that I registered for LESS racing on a given weekend to preserve my chance at a championship.

Scott