Sorry.Originally Posted by Jon
Cheaters have no say in who gets their MRA number.
Sorry.
Cheaters have no say in who gets their MRA number.
dave@MotoSix DOT com | MRA #31, WERA #311
Doesn't matter because the numbers already gone.
Retired?
dave@MotoSix DOT com | MRA #31, WERA #311
Me retire? Hell I've had one of the busiest seasons in years. I started off in Chandler AZ, in Jan, went to Daytona, back to AZ a couple times did the MOM (my new home) dropped in with the MRA and been going back to Utah ever since. If all goes as planned I'll just continue flying in to Salt lake and finish out the season there. My kids have a playground, ride there bikes all over and I get to concentrate on racing opposed to having them asking "whatta I do now" all day long.
I may one day return but it'll probably once my kids are grown up.
Hell Jonny you have not grown up yet so I don't think we can wait for your kids to before you come back.
I was referring to your cheater number.
Was it retired like The Great One?
dave@MotoSix DOT com | MRA #31, WERA #311
Lets use me as an example here. So my number is 669. If I raced RORU next year and finish 10th. What problems would we have if I ran the number 10 on a red back ground but kept my 669 to use in timing and scoring?The MRA database can't handle the leading zero in a number. The field is numeric only. To see same type of thing, try entering a "01" into MS-Excel and see how it automatically corrects it. The timing software doesn't care because it is just a text field up to four characters. Yes, I can change your number to a four letter word.
Besides confusing some people when they are out on track.
If this could happen next year I would for sure race RORU if it doesnt get erased.
What's to stop me from displaying 669 even though my number is 7 (and 54)? Nothing....besides the fact that 669 doesn't belong to me and that's why I can't run it.
If another rider legitimately earns #10 and you two happen to be racing the same classes the next season, there would be two #10's in the same race...sort of defeats the purpose of having numbers on the bikes to tell them apart. Having duplicate numbers with different background colors only creates more headaches for the manual scorekeepers.
As for the idea of "most points earns the #1"....I remember going to a CMRA race at Mid-America a few years back. I ran multiple classes and in every one of them I lapped (sometimes twice) some clown on a POS Honda Hawk (or something similar). Turns out he had two, low displacement, ultra slow POS bikes and between the two bikes he was legal for literally every class they ran. So he ran every race, and was horribly off the pace in every one of them, essentially a rolling chicane.
I'm thinking - "This is the guy who's going to be their #1 plate holder?" What a joke...If we go this route I can see a bunch of guys putting street tires on 250cc four stroke dirt bikes and going out to circulate, well off the pace, in virtually every race we run. Is this really how we want to decide the #1 plate?
Not to take anything away from Shannon and the others who run multiple races, I think the #1 plate should go to the guy who wins the premier championship. Period.
The GECCO
You begin your racing career with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
Red? No.Lets use me as an example here. So my number is 669. If I raced RORU next year and finish 10th. What problems would we have if I ran the number 10 on a red back ground but kept my 669 to use in timing and scoring?
Pink? Maybe.
8)
Boulder Motor Sports - RhinoMoto - American Express
Glenn, thanks for clarifying the scoring situation, but please go easy on the "Clapped Out Clan".
What is the difference in the joke of assigning a top ten plate to a rider on slow machine who runs a lot of races vs another set of riders in a single class who don't display the honor they have earned? Money. Right now, Joe Average racer signs up for less than 2 sprint races on any given weekend. In fact, he falls more than $30 short of a second sprint race in terms of revenue.
For the most part, the MRA doesn't have many small bikes running. The majority run a 600cc four cylinder bike. With the current class structure, one of these bikes could race as many as 10 races for experts, and 8 for a novice. Yet the reality of our situation is they race less than two, which is even less than last year.
As for the lap time difference, we already deal with this on a regular basis. The most dramatic of course is in Colorado Class with the leaders running 2:02's and the tail end at 3:24's. As long as it is a safe situation, why stop someone riding up as far as they are willing to go. I believe it's self-filtering as how many single cylinder machine are, or have run, in Middleweight Superbike in recent years?
Jon G. has already chimed in to say that he has seen this idea raise particicpation in club members, and the MRA has even done it in the past. Why not utilize a tool in our arsenal that won't cost anything to implement? If it doesn't have the desired affect, we can always change it back.
I also wish we had that racer with a pair of Hawks. If he were running every class he could in the MRA, he would be spending close to $600 in registration fees every weekend!
I have tried my best to stay out of this, But I have to agree with Glenn. I too was there at Mid America that weekend, and thought it was rather strange how "off pace" their #1 plate holder was.What's to stop me from displaying 669 even though my number is 7 (and 54)? Nothing....besides the fact that 669 doesn't belong to me and that's why I can't run it.
If another rider legitimately earns #10 and you two happen to be racing the same classes the next season, there would be two #10's in the same race...sort of defeats the purpose of having numbers on the bikes to tell them apart. Having duplicate numbers with different background colors only creates more headaches for the manual scorekeepers.
As for the idea of "most points earns the #1"....I remember going to a CMRA race at Mid-America a few years back. I ran multiple classes and in every one of them I lapped (sometimes twice) some clown on a POS Honda Hawk (or something similar). Turns out he had two, low displacement, ultra slow POS bikes and between the two bikes he was legal for literally every class they ran. So he ran every race, and was horribly off the pace in every one of them, essentially a rolling chicane.
I'm thinking - "This is the guy who's going to be their #1 plate holder?" What a joke...If we go this route I can see a bunch of guys putting street tires on 250cc four stroke dirt bikes and going out to circulate, well off the pace, in virtually every race we run. Is this really how we want to decide the #1 plate?
Not to take anything away from Shannon and the others who run multiple races, I think the #1 plate should go to the guy who wins the premier championship. Period.
8) Does anyone have photos of Glenn in a dress that weekend?.... \
Jeff Brown, #277
"What can Brown do for you!"
2011-2022 New Rider Director
2008-2010 MRA Rider Representative
Regardless of how you win a top ten plate, your 669 number is still yours in the system, regardless if you run the top 10 number or 669 on the bike. Just because you use the top ten number, doesn't mean that your original number is now "up for grabs" 8)
Jeff Brown, #277
"What can Brown do for you!"
2011-2022 New Rider Director
2008-2010 MRA Rider Representative
So what you are saying is the purpose of the #1 plate (and top 10) is to establish the rules so that the club can extract as much money from possible from each racer instead of rewarding the fastest racer in club? In a sense you are proposing that the #1 plate can be bought instead of earned by having the resources for enough race bikes to enter as many classes as allowed to accumulate as many points as possible. The guys and girls out there with a single bike, that is not elgible for 8 classes, are not any less dedicated or committed than the racer that can afford multiple bikes. So should they not have the opprotunity to race for the #1 plate?
MRA #29
Yes. If those customers are spending money with the MRA, why not? I'm not suggesting we gouge everyone that walks through the door, but every fast food place I've ordered from has asked if I wanted to upsize my meal. I'm proposing an incentive for everyone interested in a top ten plate to sign up for more races. The majority of those who have earned top ten plates through Race of the Rockies doesn't run them. Additionally, the grids are so poorly attended this season I could be the 12th fastest racer in the club right now on an EX500 just by taking the start and pulling off. And THAT bike makes a Hawk GT look fast.
Yes. What championship in motorsports hasn't ever been bought. If it's more money to purchase better equipment; money to buy more equipment; more dollars to spend on instruction, lapping days, etc. This will always be the case. Racing isn't expensive: winning is. If this isn't the case, why can't I win the #1 plate ROR style on a '91 Honda F2 with a budget of $10,000 (including the cost of the bike)?
Currently only 2 riders of the top ten in the clubman championship run classes where a two bike program is necessary. Therefore 8 of the current top ten in points do not require running multiple bikes. The bike I was thinking about in my example was a 2000 Yamaha R6. Street value of $2,500? The Lightweight GP championship bike last year was rumored to be over $50,000 by the time it hit the track. What was the #1 bike in ROR-O worth?
With my suggestion, everyone (novice and expert alike) has the opportunity to run for the number #1 plate. Superimposing last years Novice results, I believe Erik Cromer would be on track for the #3 plate this year in the clubman championship.
I feel like the win here is we now have a Clubman Championship that rewards and recognizes our ironman racers. And every racer novice or expert is eligible already.
But for recognizing top 10 plates I still prefer it be the the premier class, which any expert on any bike may chose to compete in.
#145 Wyeth Jackson
Wyeth Homes Real Estate www.WyethHomes.com
G-Force Powersports, Pirelli & Sol Performance, CT Racing, Kawasaki, Bell Helmets, TCX Boots, Vortex, Racers Edge, Un!nk Printworks, Motul, Vortex, Rising Sun Cycles, CHR, Attack Performance, NinjaTech
+1I feel like the win here is we now have a Clubman Championship that rewards and recognizes our ironman racers. And every racer novice or expert is eligible already.
But for recognizing top 10 plates I still prefer it be the the premier class, which any expert on any bike may chose to compete in.
8) =D> 8)
Jeff Brown, #277
"What can Brown do for you!"
2011-2022 New Rider Director
2008-2010 MRA Rider Representative
I feel like the win here is we now have a Clubman Championship that rewards and recognizes our ironman racers. And every racer novice or expert is eligible already.
But for recognizing top 10 plates I still prefer it be the the premier class, which any expert on any bike may chose to compete in.
Well said. But in my opinion most if not all the riders currently in the top ten Clubman points would run the classes they are in now with or without the current Clubman Championship.The incentive of a top ten plate could bring more sign ups.
As far as earning a top ten plate in ROR O, "The Premier Class" My guess with out looking at the current top ten in points would be, that several are in the top ten now from being consistent and not from being one of the top 10 fastest guys or even one of the top 30+ fastest guys in the club. They are earning it from being consistent, just like a slower guy racing multiple classes would be.
This statement in no way is directed at anyone in ROR O or clubman. I have been a backmarker in ROR O as well as many other class. I have only done one full season of it finishing 11th and I was not nearly one of the top 20 fast guys.
Our goal should be to figure out more ways to get our current racers to race more classes. This is just one idea. What can we do to bring more value to racers? Lower the entry fees? Nope we have fixed costs and the board has been doing great and reducing those.
Endurance grids are usually the biggest, Why? In my opinion laps for dollars spent. How can we give more laps in the day as it is now? We cant, not enough hours in the day. The only way to do this is drop some classes. Several have two or three racers in them now. Sure we have combined them where we can and those combined grids might actually get as big as 8 to 10. Now say we drop a few classes, we will lose entry fees from them and some might not even race any more. Would we get more sign ups if we were able to add a given number of laps to the remaining classes? Who knows but it is an idea. We still need to push hard to get new racers. Seems the biggest complaint is the cost. Yes before someone else says it, racing is expensive. How can we give more value without charging more? More laps maybe
Im not sure if I have ever typed this much in any MRA thread. Might be from puking all day at the track, maybe I'm delirious to finally have a full time job now.
FWIW, I wasn't saying that all Honda Hawks are POS, just that HIS was (whatever it/they were). Both of his bikes were cobbled together, crappy looking junk. I understand that not everyone has the resources to put together a brand new bike, but at least nearly everyone I see in our club takes pride in what they ride. I wouldn't have wanted this guys program to represent our club as the #1 rider.
It's funny how some discussions in the past regarding supersport rules and even some superbike rules centered around "how can we make racing cheaper? It's too expensive to run at the level necessary to win a championship" Now we're proposing a rule change that would virtually REQUIRE someone to spend lots more money in order to earn a top ten plate....I realize the club needs the money, but this just doesn't feel right for some reason.
I understand that everyone will still have free will to spend or not spend whatever amount they want on each weekend, this just seems to me to be a much more blatant way to be able to buy a championship. Right now it does realistically require a decent investment to put together a #1 program, but you also need to have the talent to ride the bike. Under the proposed system all you need is a big checkbook and the stamina necessary to run the laps. While I don't think these are insignificant things, I also don't think they are how we should decide our #1 plate holder.
The GECCO
You begin your racing career with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
"I like to get paid for what I do, but its not why I do what I do" Ayn Rand. I imagine the riders who choose not to display their top ten number plates do so knowing they have accomplished something great and therefore do not care if anyone else knows it or not. I know I'm just a super street rider, but it doesn't mean I don't aspire to someday stand by my bike knowing I accomplished something. Its sad for me to hear this club talk about recognition above all else. A white plate with a single black number is just a sign its the knowledge of all it took for the individual who carries it to make it what it is. So what makes a plate holder and or a hero a hero? I would define a hero as someone in the heat of battle overcoming unimaginable odds. In this sport the odds are against you, be it the cost, the time, or the ability. Clearly the riders who have the number plates now have managed to overcome all of the obstacles. Even though I may never have the time, the ability, or the money to compete for a plate I know that if I ever do I would want to done so head to head on the track not the points board and therefore making the moment all the more to live for.
Now even though I just said I love the obstacles required to compete in this class clearly the people on this thread want to make more money for the club and or compete for a plate as well, but it seems to me they can't justify the cost of a motorcycle that would be competitive and dissolve any funds for other races. So I suggest if you want there to be better turn out for the plate race we should try and get a pro rated bike (something capable of several classes so racers could still have one bike) and make the race a spec class.Yes the initial cost would be more for the guys wanting to compete but it would be a far more attainable an obstacle than the current situation and still make the race exactly what a race should be.
Spec racing, lets take a look shall we.
Lets start with the newest spec series Moto 2, the season started out with some very good racing, some of the best ever in my years of watchin. But now just like everyother spec race in history the races are getting more spread out as the better riders and teams figure out how to make it work.
I understand the appeal of a spec class I really do but in my gut as a mechanic and racer it makes me want to wretch my guts out. I don't want my sport to go the way of Nascar with restictor plates and other such bullshit, if I have the knowledge to build a bike better or tune a bike better or ride a bike better why is that a bad thing, that is racing at its finest IMO.
Even though I will most certainly never earn one, I too believe that the top ten numbers should be awarded based on the premier class, (currently) ROR-O. That being said, what follows will not effect the current alternate 1-10 numbers at all.
With the inclusion of one color to our number plate scheme, I can provide information identifying Class Champions, Clubman Top X, and Clubman Champion. I have used green as the additional color; a different color could obviously be used for implementation. More colors could identify more rider qualifications.
These all respresent a racer's status at the start of the current year, i.e., they represent the season ending stats of the prior year. As such I have only addressed Experts, (although it can easily be extended to Novices. Even if it is possible mathematically, there is virtually no chance that a novice will attain any of the new classifications without also advancing to Expert status for the current year.)
In the rider questions, if you can answer 'yes' to the 'IF', you aways have the option of choosing the 'ELSE' branch. If everybody did that we would end with all experts displaying black numbers on white plates. Sound familiar?)
The only people that could possibly be forced to change their number plate display would be ROR-O numbers 2-9, but only if a) they were using the (current) alternate scheme of white numbers / black plate AND b) they weren't a class champion.
From a rider's perspective:
IF Clubman Champion THEN Green Plate
ELSE
IF Class Champion THEN Black Plate
ELSE
White Plate
[Green Plate]
IF Class Champion THEN Black Number ELSE White Number
[Black Plate]
IF Clubman Top X THEN Green Number ELSE White Number
[White Plate]
IF Clubman Top X THEN Green Number ELSE Black Number
To identify a racer's classification:
IF Green Plate and Black Number THEN Clubman Champion and Class Champion
IF Green Plate and White Number THEN Clubman Champion
IF Black Plate and Green Number THEN Class Champion and Clubman Top X
IF Black Plate and White Number THEN Class Champion
IF White Plate and Green Number THEN Clubman Top X
IF White Plate and Black Number THEN no distinction
One possible financial incentive would be an additional discount in the current year for any Clubman Top X from the prior year. Something like: your last race is free if you register for so many races; an additional price cut below the current $20 - maybe $15 after 1/2/3 $20's. Calculating the optimum value for 'X' would be entertaining.
Chris #38 / 2018 Ninja 400 / smpgracing.blogspot.com
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Oooh, I shouldn't read these posts when I'm drunk. :?ops: :-(0)
Yes, Chris, you should. Cheater.
Fred SpongeButt Slowpants Roth
MRA811
I may be old, I may be slow, but..... aw rats, I'm old and slow.
I know I am late to this thread but I will toss this out as an old-timer who when I was actively racing the top ten numbers were awarded on the clubman principle. I also earned a top ten number racing the equivalent of a Supersport bike in a bunch of classes.
I do not think it is a good idea as it devalues the top 10 ranking to something that either consistency or a big wallet can buy. If you are consistent in finishing and not crashing while racing several classes including small classes (only 5 entries guarantees you 5th place points) you can easily get a top 10. To be honest that is how I earned my single digit, no way in the world was I one of the 10 fastest riders in the club.
The 'buying' the championship argument admittedly applies to a certain extent even now, however currently you still have to be a great rider, money IMO can only buy you 3 or 4 places. With clubman if you can build 3 or 4 bikes to the top of the specs you can guarantee yourself a top 10.
IMO the use/display of a number should be a totally separate discussion from how it is awarded.
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