Remove ROR GTU section 2.4.1.5

[dragos13]

Per Rob Christman

Rule 2.4.1 5 Race of the Rockies GTU-Delete this class

I propose to bring back one premier event. Make Race of the Rockies GTO the only premier event. It was always exciting to see the guys on little bikes racing up in this class and the grid was always full. Our club has been known throughout the country for our Superbikes and how fast our riders are. This way the payout could be better also, the guy who wins this race should atleast be able to pay his entry fees for the weekend and now the purse is split up between GTU and GTO. Also, pay back to 15th position so many riders can win money, not just the top 3. I believe this will actually make more money for the club and be a bigger event (more exciting).

I don't remember what our entry fee used to be for this event but i think other racers would pay a little bit more to enter if they had a chance to win a little more also.

It was always exciting seeing ALL the best riders in the club in the "MAIN EVENT"

[dragos13]

Also, pay back to 15th position so many riders can win money, not just the top 3. I believe this will actually make more money for the club and be a bigger event (more exciting).

I don't remember what our entry fee used to be for this event but i think other racers would pay a little bit more to enter if they had a chance to win a little more also.

ROR currently pays down to 20th, not 3rd, but I understand where you are coming from. I think a viable option is a title sponsor for ROR.

[Christman29]

True Jim, but it doesn't pay near what it used to when it was the premier event.

[Bartman]

Rob part of the reason the payout is lower is that the club used to subsidize the payout and we can no longer afford that so dropping to one class will not change the payout since it is based on entry as to what the pay out will be.
Thats why we need a trophy sponser to be able to have a better payout.

[dragos13]

Well in a way payout would actually double.

Say, for example we have 30 racers in the single ROR class and only pay out to 15th. The overall surcharge amount we receive would increase thus allowing the payout to increase.

Now, if we combine classes and the number of riders doesn't increase then payout would be the same.

[T Baggins]

The payout is directly tied to participation now - and we do pay to 20th position in 2010 even though we rarely get more than 15 on the grid.

The more people who race in it, the bigger the payout. If you guys could consistently get 20-25 guys racing in the classes, the payout would be nearly the same as it was before... 30 on each grid and BOTH payouts are bigger than they were before!

Sucker a bunch of people who you know you can beat in to running it and you can bump the payout significantly. :lol:

Before, ALL club members donated a portion of their entry fees to the ROR purses - whether they wanted to or not.

Now, ONLY those club members who CHOOSE to donate a portion of their entry fees to the ROR purse (by participating in ROR) are doing so.

Part of the new direction of the MRA is to do a better job of putting on a program which benefits the majority rather than the minority. More than 80% of our members don't participate in ROR, why should they bear the burden of the purse?

[TRK]

I know I won't race RORO if the classes are combined, so my help in the "double" won't be there

[rybo]

I know I won't race RORO if the classes are combined, so my help in the "double" won't be there

Shannon,

Is this still true if the purse money increases significantly as a result of the change?

I hear complaints that the payout isn't big enough in ROR, yet at the same time the classes aren't filling even to the level that we pay out to (20th position). I realize that people may not want to race for $12.67, but it seems to me that combining the classes might yield a larger field and therefore higher payouts.

As it stands if 30 riders were to sign up for either of the ROR classes the payout would run larger AND deeper than it did BEFORE the change.

So, I ask again, if the payout was there would you race the combined class?

s

[Clarkie]

Not everyone races a class for the payout Scott, remember that :wink:

[rybo]

Not everyone races a class for the payout Scott, remember that :wink:

Hell Clarkie, if anyone knows that it's me. I'm old, bald and pretty slow racing a bike that's equally....well....bald for starters. I realize that I'm never getting paid to race a motorcycle so I don't do ANY of my racing for the payout.

Shannon, however, has a boatload more talent than I do and could win money for racing motorcycles. Many in ROR have said that the reduced payout is a problem for them, so I'm just framing Rob's suggestion in a different light to gauge what the low participation in ROR problem is.

s

[Clarkie]

So I guess being competitve in a class, the achievement of racing in a class you can compete in, having realistic goals, and many more factors dont rate like the 'payout' you speak of?

Ok

[rybo]

So I guess being competitve in a class, the achievement of racing in a class you can compete in, having realistic goals, and many more factors dont rate like the 'payout' you speak of?

Ok

You're right, that's why for 3-4 years I've been proposing a "spec" class of sorts and why I race bikes that are 10 years or more old, because none of those other things matter to me at all. It's really all about the money. I now see the error in my ways. I shall repent by changing my motor oil. [/sarcasm]

[Clarkie]

So why assuse if you combine the classes and increase the payout slightly, it will be a good thing? You say you dont race for the money yourself, why do you think others are the same?

I made pretty good money when I raced, but that wasnt the reason I turned up. For me it was the "Battle!"

[rybo]

So why assuse if you combine the classes and increase the payout slightly, it will be a good thing? You say you dont race for the money yourself, why do you think others are the same?

I made pretty good money when I raced, but that wasnt the reason I turned up. For me it was the "Battle!"

Well, some of my assumption comes from reading the early survey data where there are a number of comments from riders in these classes in the "suggestion" columns that ROR payouts should be increased. While that isn't my motivation, I also don't want to assume that my motivation is the only motivation for racing. This is another motivation that HAS been expressed, so I decided to see if the idea panned out.

logical, I think....

[Clarkie]

When have motorcycles racers ever been logical?

Why not kill all ROR classes since most OEM's only pay contingency in the SS and SB classes and make the SB class your premier class? seems logical to me

[TRK]

How will purse money significantly change by killing RORU? The purse is tied to participation. Do you theorize that everyone in RORU will race RORO
if you kill the class, because I won't. I don't think the answer to a small RORO grid is to kill another class in "hopes" that everyone will sign up. If you want bigger payouts, quit paying so deep, and raise ROR fees.

Do I want a bigger payout? Hell yes. Do I think I will see a bigger paycheck racing in RORO with a theoretical larger grid? No, I will be racing for a lesser position and just subsidizing the front runners at my own expense. In addition I probably won't see any contingency money.

Clarkie made an AWESOME point. People have different motivations for racing. Without the "payouts" and "contingency" I couldn't race every weekend, but I don't race for these things. I too race for the battle. Every time I get on the grid, I truly believe this is my race, my day, my win (at times more so on the mighty SV LOL). I think the the little tweak I made to my suspension, a new brake marker that I picked out, or some other subtle change will make the difference and bring me the win. Does it happen all the time? No. Is it possible that I can take home the win in every race I enter? I think so every time I line up on the grid.

Do I think any of these things will happen if I lined up next to a 210HP GSXR1000 on my 115 HP R6? Nope.

I know I won't race RORO if the classes are combined, so my help in the "double" won't be there

Shannon,

Is this still true if the purse money increases significantly as a result of the change?

I hear complaints that the payout isn't big enough in ROR, yet at the same time the classes aren't filling even to the level that we pay out to (20th position). I realize that people may not want to race for $12.67, but it seems to me that combining the classes might yield a larger field and therefore higher payouts.

As it stands if 30 riders were to sign up for either of the ROR classes the payout would run larger AND deeper than it did BEFORE the change.

So, I ask again, if the payout was there would you race the combined class?

s

[Clarkie]

My point exactly Shannon, while the purse helps, it isnt the reason people spend all week getting ready and motivated to turn up to race.

[oldtimer]

Hi Aaron and Shannon! This is a good discussion and I'd love to hear your suggestions.

We currently have 2 'premier' classes and both are under attended. How do we increase the RoR grids? Or maybe a better question is why aren't more people entering RoR?


*and remember this was Rob's idea. :shock: 8)

[Clarkie]

From the 'outside (cause that's where I am now) the ROR classes are petty much the same as the MWSB and OSB classes, sure not exactly the same but close and it wouldnt take a lot of rule changes to change that. A few years ago specialty ROR bikes where being built where as that isnt the case nowdays as they are usually also OSB/MWSB legal.

Not manyof the OEMs pay in the ROR classes and if the do they could always change to OSB/MWSB if asked, yes the are the two 'premier' classes in the MRA but that is just marketing....

So you have two dulpicate classes.....and a tight schedule..... I will let you figure the rest out Wyeth :wink:

[oldtimer]

Now that's a solution in the true spirit of the silly season--no RoR classes! :lol:

[Clarkie]

or combine the SB and ROR classes, remarket them to ensure bigger grids..... yeah stupid idea, here's me thinking about the health of the club and it's longevity, sorry

[oldtimer]

Well yea, that's the idea!

[Clarkie]

You are awesome at marketing Wyeth, and know the power of it and it's effect :wink:

Sure some people will complain about losing a class, but it opens a hole in the schedule for an EX250 spec class..... Less tires, less fuel, cheaper weekend for a lot of racers when everyone's wallet is hurting......

ok crawling back into a hole now, sorry

[T Baggins]

Rybo and I were just talking about this...

What if we re-branded them as:

Race of the Rockies Middleweight Superbike

and

Race of the Rockies Open Superbike

That would keep the classes recognizable to the contingency payors, as well as allow us to put the MRA ROR purse ON TOP of the manufacturer contingency.

That would be a decent payout on most weekends (assuming the manufacturers come back with their $$).

Qualifying would remain in place, classes would be 14 laps, surcharge applies to grow the payout.

Two concerns:

One is that some of the MWSB guys may opt out which would cut overall entries and payout.

Two is that ROR is a revenue-neutral class for the club - which means that we pay back out all that we take in. Even if it went away altogether, there would be no net loss to the club. OSB and MWSB are revenue-positive for the club. By doing this we are essentially taking two revenue streams away from the club.

Thoughts?

[Munch]

Out of curiosity, what's the ROR-U payout been for the last race? With a light grid (and given we pay out to 20th), what did the last 5 or so positions end up getting paid?