Lengthen endurance race time, Reduce endurance practice.

[dragos13]

Are we proposing to do this for only one event, or the entire season?

[joe859]

The original post was to lengthen the races slightly, reduce the practice time. Good idea. Eliminating the endurance practices would be fine with me. 45 minutes I think should be about max for a solo effort. I've seen lots of riders visibly slow a significant amount the last couple laps of a 30 minute race, maybe we should make sure we're not scaring any potential entries (and the $$) off by making this too difficult. The grid at the last MW Endo was awesome, I don't see that happening for a 45 minute race, though.

The bigtime longass race could be like the "pony express" we did at Pueblo with Mark, I did it, what a hoot! The weird thing is, you can have 28 people signed up, but only have 7 bikes on the track at any given time. Also, you couldn't really work the results of this race into the year-end standings, how would the points work? It would have to be a stand-alone.

Anyway, I'm buying a new bike just to do endurance, so bring it on!

[racedk6]

Are we proposing to do this for only one event, or the entire season?

I propose it as a mid race lets have some fun race! WERA has some wicked endurance races and I would like to have something like that once a year so I dont have to drive 36 hrs to go do one!

I also think it would be something that could bring riders from other states, because not only can the come race out here but... they get to ride the track for quite a bit of time!

[DOUBLE A]

The original post was to lengthen the races slightly, reduce the practice time. Good idea. Eliminating the endurance practices would be fine with me. 45 minutes I think should be about max for a solo effort. I've seen lots of riders visibly slow a significant amount the last couple laps of a 30 minute race, maybe we should make sure we're not scaring any potential entries (and the $$) off by making this too difficult. The grid at the last MW Endo was awesome, I don't see that happening for a 45 minute race, though.

The bigtime longass race could be like the "pony express" we did at Pueblo with Mark, I did it, what a hoot! The weird thing is, you can have 28 people signed up, but only have 7 bikes on the track at any given time. Also, you couldn't really work the results of this race into the year-end standings, how would the points work? It would have to be a stand-alone.

Anyway, I'm buying a new bike just to do endurance, so bring it on!

WHO CARES ABOUT THE STANDINGS, EVERYONE WILL KNOW THE TEAM THAT WON!!! 8)

[racedk6]

The original post was to lengthen the races slightly, reduce the practice time. Good idea. Eliminating the endurance practices would be fine with me. 45 minutes I think should be about max for a solo effort. I've seen lots of riders visibly slow a significant amount the last couple laps of a 30 minute race, maybe we should make sure we're not scaring any potential entries (and the $$) off by making this too difficult. The grid at the last MW Endo was awesome, I don't see that happening for a 45 minute race, though.

The bigtime longass race could be like the "pony express" we did at Pueblo with Mark, I did it, what a hoot! The weird thing is, you can have 28 people signed up, but only have 7 bikes on the track at any given time. Also, you couldn't really work the results of this race into the year-end standings, how would the points work? It would have to be a stand-alone.

Anyway, I'm buying a new bike just to do endurance, so bring it on!

WHO CARES ABOUT THE STANDINGS, EVERYONE WILL KNOW THE TEAM THAT WON!!! 8)

Dude look at the button on the left hand side of the key board. Yes the one labelled "Caps Lock". Next time you reply make sure not to push it in. :wink:

[DOUBLE A]

hey are you tall enuf to see that button..... :lol:

[racedk6]

hey are you tall enuf to see that button..... :lol:

Hahaha :lol:

I'm tall ENOUGH to spell correctly! :wink:

[Scored51]

The original post was to... have 28 people signed up, but only have 7 bikes on the track at any given time.

Hey, let's combine two ideas for next year and have a pony express race with the super street class! :lol:

BTW, the pony express race we ran at Pueblo was even better than a straight relay because the teams were handicapped by design to all finish at the same time with the same amount of laps. The more we do them, the better the math would get, and the closer the finishes.

[clowe]

All,

I was part of that 4 hour endurance with Frank, Chris and Shannon. In fact, I think we won! Here are just a few thing things to think about when talking about these longer races, increasing fees for endurance or taking away/shortening endurance practice. We are hurting as a club right now for $$$$, upping entry fees will drive away more people than we will see the club make in profits. Making the races longer will drive people away because will have to spend more in fuel and more in tires (what I mean by this is they will be less likely to be able to use those tires for more races). Everyone wanted that 4 hour race but when the time came there were only a few people who showed up! Everyone screamed for longer endurance races but when the people racing were there and it was time to run the race, almost everyone voted to keep it at 30 minutes. Lastly, taking practice away from those who are only getting 15 minutes of practice anyway is a bad idea. Trying to tell those people that now they have to be at the track for the whole day and practice in the morning will drive people who only come for endurance racing away. Also, a 10 minute session for a lot of these folks at HPR is like 4 or 5 laps if that. Before we spend too much time work on these things lets just remember how this worked out in the past.

All that said, I am all for longer endurance races, 4 hour events or team events. I love that stuff and it would be a hoot.

Thanks,

Crash

[benfoxmra95]

why not separate MRA race weekends for the enduracnce races?

totally separate days from the normal schedule. we'll take a monday sometime in between mra events. or whatever, im sure there's plenty of sat or sundays available next summer at PPIR the way they've been running the place.

THis could be put on by a separate promoter, like vanmar, or chicane, or The Ben Fox Motorcycle Roadracing Federation of Effin Bad Ass's, the "BFMRFEBA" for short.

It'll be a 6 hour event, gto/gtu run what you brung, you can ride your own bike you can share a bike, what ever, you just have to limit yourself to one hour on the track with a one hour break into between sessions.

We can run it like a handicap as well where the fastest riders have a time penalty they are working against to even out the field, this worked pretty darn well at the vanmar endurance classic two years ago, Jim wilson and i were a two man team against i think 3 and 4 man teams and we were pretty close to winning the thing but jim had too walk his dogs during one of his stints and that slowed us up...J/K....

[gsnyder828]

Crash - thanks for your input. I'd just like to address a couple points you make:

We are hurting as a club right now for $$$$, upping entry fees will drive away more people than we will see the club make in profits.

I agree with the first part of that - but [Only referring to endurance races] how do you know that it will drive people away? Without some level of knowledge of the price elasticity we can only try it, see the results - and make corrections if needed. If we raise prices 50% (to $75/race) and lose 20% participation - the club makes more $$. In fact - we'd have to lose 1 in 3 racers to not make more $$ for the club.

Making the races longer will drive people away because will have to spend more in fuel and more in tires (what I mean by this is they will be less likely to be able to use those tires for more races).

Maybe - or maybe more folks will come out b/c they get that much more track time. Why not try a couple longer races and see the results? Example - if we have back to back HPR races next year - let's do one 30m endurance and one 45m. If total weekend participation (macro level) is the same, but the endurance races are wildly different - either direction - then that's info the board can use for planning future schedules - and it's a low risk experiment.

Everyone screamed for longer endurance races but when the people racing were there and it was time to run the race, almost everyone voted to keep it at 30 minutes.

Actually - I think it was mostly me who suggested it last year... and you're right, not enough folks voted for it at the beginning of this year. Fair enough... strange, IMO - but hey, one guy was fighting for rain tires in SS for years before it finally got passed. Interested vocal minorities and all that... :wink:

Lastly, taking practice away from those who are only getting 15 minutes of practice anyway is a bad idea. Trying to tell those people that now they have to be at the track for the whole day and practice in the morning will drive people who only come for endurance racing away.

Honestly - how many people is this? And why is it a bad idea when we say the same thing to the novice moto-shop worker who works Saturdays, owns a 1000cc bike and can only race AmO? And he/she gets to pay $160- for the opportunity.

I've only noticed one person who does the "show up late in the pm" thing, and the guy/gal I'm thinking of - more often than not - didn't seem to have a bike that ran come time for the race.

The reality is that for $50 someone can practice 3 sessions in the morning, 1 session in the afternoon, race a 30 min race - stick around and ride 2 more practice sessions the NEXT DAY. 7 sessions in all with corner workers for $50.

IMO that seems a little out of line with the economics of racing, let alone track days.

I think it's reasonable that endurance racers pay more $$ - for the benefit of the club - and I plan on racing both endurance races next year (even if we get lucky and they're 45m) so this will hit my wallet more than most 8) .

[JimWilson29]

why not separate MRA race weekends for the enduracnce races?

totally separate days from the normal schedule. we'll take a monday sometime in between mra events. or whatever, im sure there's plenty of sat or sundays available next summer at PPIR the way they've been running the place.

THis could be put on by a separate promoter, like vanmar, or chicane, or The Ben Fox Motorcycle Roadracing Federation of Effin Bad Ass's, the "BFMRFEBA" for short.

It'll be a 6 hour event, gto/gtu run what you brung, you can ride your own bike you can share a bike, what ever, you just have to limit yourself to one hour on the track with a one hour break into between sessions.

We can run it like a handicap as well where the fastest riders have a time penalty they are working against to even out the field, this worked pretty darn well at the vanmar endurance classic two years ago, Jim wilson and i were a two man team against i think 3 and 4 man teams and we were pretty close to winning the thing but jim had too walk his dogs during one of his stints and that slowed us up...J/K....

sorry about that Ben