4.5 Novice to Expert advancement process

[racedk6]

4.5 Novice to Expert advancement process

Advancement from Novice to Expert can occur when the following requirements have been met, subject to approval by the New Rider Director:

C. At the end of the season the top ten riders in points standings for both Novice GTU and Novice GTO will be moved up to expert status.

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Changed to:

4.5 Novice to Expert advancement process

Advancement from Novice to Expert can occur when the following requirements have been met, subject to approval by the New Rider Director:

C. At the end of the season the top five riders in points standings for both Novice GTU and Novice GTO will be moved up to expert status.

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Taken from Ben Fox's statement.

Snyder hit one of my points I was making earlier this year.

There's no real incentive to move to novice. And when you are a novice an get bumped because you finished well enough you are posed with the question of spending a crapload of money on a "supersport" bike.

I have talked to numerous novices over the years who purposefully stayed novice to collect novice contingency.

I have also been wondering what i should do next year as well. It has crossed my mind to stay in novice and collect some money next year. But I personally wont feel like I gain anything from it what so ever. I was worried about getting walked on in the expert classes and not having fun until I talked with some other experts and got their general idea on it.

I also know novices that are being bumped up that dont want to be. They personally feel like they still have room to improve on their riding skill with in the novice ranks. It is a reward to be bumped up to expert because alot of riders want the white plate! But some riders feel like they are being bumped just because they showed up and raced every round. Some may not want to return because they dont feel like they would have any fun running at the back of the pack in expert when the fields arent that deep.

Im just throwing the thought out there to see what other peoples opinions on this are. :shock:

[cromer611]

I learned alot from being a second year novice, How getting in the habit of turning your brain off can bite you in the ass.In 2008, I developed a skill of following people and findin out where im faster and slower to pass and block on corners. But I didnt learn how to hold the pressure of leading races and maintaining a pace with no one to gauge off of. the thoughts of "Dont F#ck up" running through your mind almost every corner. It might be ez for some but was a big step for me this year.
You might still gain alot from runnin another year.
but then again people give you shit for "Sandbagging". I turned the other cheek and put my head down. suddenly when i was running the same lap times, or faster, it suddenly stopped.....weird :roll:

but w/e, I think if someone quits cuz they are being bumped up into expert classes... then let them.
What determines where you finish in a race is based off of how bad you want it.
just my 2c

[DarkKnight]

Maybe I dont have a grasp of this but I thought if you were advanced out of the Novice ranks for finishing top 10, yes you got a white plate (expert) but your not forced to run expert classes. You can still race in the Amatuer class which is the next natural progression.

I don't see a reason to move the cut off from 10 to 5.

[benfoxmra95]

So what if we don't bump anyone out of novice automatically and eliminated the year end championship trophy for novices?

No championship winner recognized, just gave out trophies per weekend.

You want a shot at a championship, then you need to bump yourself to expert when your ready and you meet the requirement of at least one season as a novice....

[dragos13]

I think Novice riders need to be bumped to expert to continue growth as a rider. I would rather propose that the top 15 novices and top 10 amatuers are bumped up. This would move more riders into the grids that need to be filled, and lower the competitiveness of the current Novice classes.

[gsnyder828]

So what if we don't bump anyone out of novice automatically and eliminated the year end championship trophy for novices?

No championship winner recognized, just gave out trophies per weekend.

You want a shot at a championship, then you need to bump yourself to expert when your ready and you meet the requirement of at least one season as a novice....

:lol: I was wondering how long until the annual "kill the novice champioinship" discussion would start.

Now I need to start a "no rain tires in supersport" thread just for Crash.

[benfoxmra95]

So what if we don't bump anyone out of novice automatically and eliminated the year end championship trophy for novices?

No championship winner recognized, just gave out trophies per weekend.

You want a shot at a championship, then you need to bump yourself to expert when your ready and you meet the requirement of at least one season as a novice....

:lol: I was wondering how long until the annual "kill the novice champioinship" discussion would start.

Now I need to start a "no rain tires in supersport" thread just for Crash.

lol

we are creatures of habit aren't we....

[racedk6]

I think Novice riders need to be bumped to expert to continue growth as a rider. I would rather propose that the top 15 novices and top 10 amatuers are bumped up. This would move more riders into the grids that need to be filled, and lower the competitiveness of the current Novice classes.

This is where we run into your problem with the novice waves in the ss and sbk grids. You are gonna have guys running 10 to 15 secs a lap slower in the expert grids.

I think finding a way to keep the novice guys coming back is something that will help the club. If more novices are comfortable moving up to expert more of them will come back the next year.

[racedk6]

Maybe I dont have a grasp of this but I thought if you were advanced out of the Novice ranks for finishing top 10, yes you got a white plate (expert) but your not forced to run expert classes. You can still race in the Amatuer class which is the next natural progression.

I don't see a reason to move the cut off from 10 to 5.

What we might want to figure out is how many first year experts came out and raced this year. I know there were very few in the AM classes. Maybe some of the first year experts raced the iddle weight or heavy weight classes and not AM.

I am curious to see what those numbers are.

[T Baggins]

This is where we run into your problem with the novice waves in the ss and sbk grids. You are gonna have guys running 10 to 15 secs a lap slower in the expert grids.

Round 7 HPR

MWSS Winner Fast Lap 1:50
MWSS 13th place Fast Lap 2:03

NOV U Winner Fast Lap 1:54
NOV U 15th place fast lap 2:05

As you can see, there are already guys running 15 sec's slower and nobody's trying to kick those guys out of MWSS.

The top 12 riders in NOV U all had faster lap times than the current slowest rider in MWSS. The difference at 15 sec's per lap over 7 laps is only 1:45, so even the last of the last of this group wouldn't be lapped. So would "they" be the hazard really??

This is a really good discussion, but please people let's not speculate on things. The information is at your fingertips - do your homework and THEN post something up. It took me 4 minutes to look this info up and post it.

[gsnyder828]

Round 7 HPR

MWSS Winner Fast Lap 1:50
MWSS 13th place Fast Lap 2:03

NOV U Winner Fast Lap 1:54
NOV U 15th place fast lap 2:05

As you can see, there are already guys running 15 sec's slower and nobody's trying to kick those guys out of MWSS.

The top 12 riders in NOV U all had faster lap times than the current slowest rider in MWSS. The difference at 15 sec's per lap over 7 laps is only 1:45, so even the last of the last of this group wouldn't be lapped. So would "they" be the hazard really??

I think this is a great example/argument for why these riders should be incented to move up to expert and deepen the expert class grid.

[CO750]

The majority of them will be moving up next year since they finished in the top 10. Of the ones I know, they are excited to run in the expert classes.

[gsnyder828]

The majority of them will be moving up next year since they finished in the top 10. Of the ones I know, they are excited to run in the expert classes.

To clarify - I meant mid season advancement.

The reality doesn't support that their moving up will help next year. Expert grids were light last year - we advanced the top novices and the grids were light again this year.

Look @ MWSS last race of each year:

2009 - 13 on the grid
2008 - 10 on the grid
2007 - 13 on the grid
2006 - 13 on the grid
2005 - 19 on the grid
2004 - 24 on the grid

19 to 24 - that's a good MWSS grid.

With attrition (I've heard the avg. roadracer lifespan is 2.5 seasons) moving 10-15 riders up at the end of the year barely maintains grids, since some don't actually come back, some do - but run part time, some start a season and get injured and some experts stop racing/cut their schedule back.

[CO750]

So what I think that you're saying is that those who qualify should be allowed to run in the expert classes after demonstrating that they meet a certain criteria. Correct? I agree with that.

Do you think that they should be allowed to finish the year racing in the novice classes also if they want?

I think that is where it might be controversial. Because if they are racing for the championship in a novice class, and collecting some contingency along the way, why would they want to move up early and lose that?

If they are allowed to do both, then you fill up the expert grids more and still get the entries in the novice classes too.