Qualifying to help bring up entry.

[benfoxmra95]

I've been running this thought over in my head here lately....


The MRA has always been a long term "GOAL" oriented club.

as in there's a lot of emphasis put on the year end trophy we might achieve.

If you talk to other racers across the country things seem a little different that they don't have that carrot in their eye to try and get and aren't worried about a year end trophy.

What I'm getting at here is, maybe that we put so much effort on the entire season and you have to race all the races and get that year end finishing spot, that it diminishes peoples drive to come out and race becuase they don't want to start from the back of the grid because they have no accumalated points from previous weekends or last year.

the grid posistions are based on points and how well you did before and are doing.


I think that if we revistied the idea of qualifying on the weekends that it might bring back in some old racers that don't want to climb that hill to fight for a good grid spot.

it'd be more intriguiging for them to think that they can pick the weekends and tracks they want and not worry about starting last.

I know, here comes the argument about tires and now i'll need to buy a set of qualifying tires, but that's not the case. truly think about it.....when you practice on saturday your going as goddamn fast as you possibly can to get your lap times down. and your not putting on new tires for that.

some people might choose to buy a set of new tires for qualifying....and that's their choice....and that's probably the same person who made the choice to spend $30k on a their race bike and has the ability to put on 2 new sets of tires every weekend regardless, so it's of no consequence to the average guy anyway because he's already been out "tired" and out "check booked" for the last several years anyway. Who cares if Brad hendry puts on a set of qualifiers, who cares if jon glaefke puts on a set of qaulifiers? really, what's the difference? will he gain a second from his practice tire? maybe, and if he does how far up the twins grid will he move? 5 rows? no....none. fact is if there faster than you, they are faster than you.

I really think this may be an idea to draw back old racers on the grid, and that's what we need right now is entry fees....spectators are nice, but that's only $10 a head. we need more of the $250 entry fees per person.

here's the math: we attract back 20 racers (20x$200) that's $4000 extra.

we'd have to bring in an extra 400 spectators to generate $4000. I've been around the mra a few years, and I don't think we're going to attract another 400 spectators on top of the the normal spectators we have right now. and if we do it's only going to be for one or two weekends.

think about this please before you slam this idea....

This is an idea to try and bring back already licensed racers.... We've been catering to the die hard racers and the number of those entrants isn't enough to support the club so now maybe we need to try and cater to the racers that want to do specific dates.

[sheispoison]

I personally like this idea. After missing 3 rounds because of crashing and getting hurt, it was kind of a bum out to have to start dead last in a second wave knowing I'd never catch the guys that I'd normally be running with. If the last practice session of Sat. morning and the last one Sun. morning became qualifiers I think that'd be really cool. And if you used those times to set all the grids per class then we wouldn't have to squeeze it in anywhere... Just my opinion.
carl

[glenngsxr]

I personally like this idea. After missing 3 rounds because of crashing and getting hurt, it was kind of a bum out to have to start dead last in a second wave knowing I'd never catch the guys that I'd normally be running with. If the last practice session of Sat. morning and the last one Sun. morning became qualifiers I think that'd be really cool. And if you used those times to set all the grids per class then we wouldn't have to squeeze it in anywhere... Just my opinion.
carl

This is a really good idea. We don't need to have a separate qualifying "session". We make the last practice rounds each day a qualifying practice much like WSBK(w/o Superpole obviously). At our level, as Ben said, there would be no need for the super fast guys to go put q's on because they are already top of the time sheets. It's generally known that you get out of the way the last ten mins of the session anyways. It does allow the people who had a DNF or a $$$ shortage or a mechanical failure the previous round to be right back in the chase for the lead. Glenn #62

[137]

+1

[T Baggins]

There would be obvious challenges to getting everyone gridded with a qualifying type program - simply because the current system AUTOMATICALLY grids you up based on current points. It would take considerably more effort/time to pore over the lap times and grid everyone up like that. It would have to be done manually, unless the AMB timing system could do it...

I'm not saying "don't do it" or "it can't be done" - I'm just pointing out the operational shortcomings of the current system.

"IF" we were to go to qualifying - why not simply take the BEST lap from all sessions?? What if you do well in your first session, break your bike in the second, and miss "qualifying" because you're fixing your bike in the 3rd session?

[Desmodromico]

As a Novice who just started I would agree to this also. Seems like now your first season is just spent trying to get in the first wave the next one, would be easier to attract and keep people if we slotted them in where they run from the start and allowed the progression to happen faster.

[froth]

I agree with T-Bag. If it's possible, "simply" use the fastest lap time of the day. This way, the "last 10 minutes" idea will not be an informal impediment to racer who pay for that time, whether or not they are the top ten riders.

Of course, I'll be moving up from, say last to maybe not quite last.

[froth]

Oops, forgot one other point. Or, you could just go Wyeth on everyone and picup about, oh, all the positions at the start (that was Mondo Cool, lady!)

[glenngsxr]

There would be obvious challenges to getting everyone gridded with a qualifying type program - simply because the current system AUTOMATICALLY grids you up based on current points. It would take considerably more effort/time to pore over the lap times and grid everyone up like that. It would have to be done manually, unless the AMB timing system could do it...

I'm not saying "don't do it" or "it can't be done" - I'm just pointing out the operational shortcomings of the current system.

"IF" we were to go to qualifying - why not simply take the BEST lap from all sessions?? What if you do well in your first session, break your bike in the second, and miss "qualifying" because you're fixing your bike in the 3rd session?

Tony,
Does the AMB system kind of work like MSFT Excel. Instead of filtering by points, could you filter by lap times and set the grids that way?

[T Baggins]

I honestly have no idea how the AMB system works. Currently we don't use it AT ALL for gridding, as that is done by our own database and entry system that Davey G runs.

[rforsythe]

I'm pretty sure the AMB system can generate grids by times. I am not real sure how to do it, but I am 99% sure I read that somewhere. Since every rider has a transponder, it's really just a matter of figuring that part out, trusting it not to screw up, and ensuring that every rider who goes out in practice has their transponder on (not all do) and is being recorded to avoid the emotional baggage that will come along with a fast guy getting last spot.

Other orgs do grids-by-times and just use the AMB system to sort that out. It also means the AMB system needs knowledge of what riders are in a particular race, and that is where the data entry / human error part really gets touchy. I am not sure if this can be automated from a data pull off of Dave's database, or if someone would have to type entries for each grid by hand.

Another option would be for Dave's system to pull fastest time for a rider from the AMB system, and sort its own grids based on that number instead of points. This, in reality, may be much simpler and less error prone.

It could certainly generate more revenue (and I like Ben's idea), but it's not as simple as flipping a switch either. There is some definite geekery that needs to take place to make it a smooth migration from how the technology works today.

[Mforza]

I like that idea too. As I missed the first half of the races now I will not start in NovO, just beacause I will have to start dead last on grid and go crazy to finaly finish 15-18. It's not worth the efort if I know i can run in top10 and maybe fight for some trophy if I started in front.
I think that the best time from practice that day is good idea also.
The racing will become more interesting again

[ctb]

BIG + 1.

This is a big part of why I have had about ZERO motivation to race more this year. The one race I did do, round #2, after missing the 1st round, was HORRIBLE. I would never want to be gridded where I was again. I think this would help, too with the fun factor. You would start everytime with people of similar speed.

[clowe]

This seems like a great idea and I am all for it. One thing we need to think about and figure out how to do. Those of us who run different bikes in different classes.........how do we make sure we get right time, on the right bike for the right class. Let's do this Q thing but make sure we take that into account. Actually, maybe we don't worry about it all and do just take the fastest time just to be simple.

Crash

[JimWilson29]

I agree with everything Ben posted. I decided to skip Hastings because after trying to run the first two rounds on a bike that didnt run, I was down in 20th place or something like that in both ror and osb(sorry Brewer I loved your Aprilia until the clutch went out 2nd lap in ) The thought of going all the way to Hastings to start dead last on the grids didnt interest me. I even had someone offer to cover my entry. So now I fit into Ben's description above. I will admit I have already lost my interest in racing and I had planned to only run half the remaining races until this past week's events. I think qualifying would provide more incentive for those racers that are not at every event to come out and participate.

[elvis8310@hotmail.com]

+1 also.

I was doing great for the first 2 races then got hurt doing Army stuff and have missed a few races and am back were I started from. I like the fastest lap grid idea for sure.

[racedk6]

If you switch to doing a qualifing grid setup I am so screwed :shock: Just for the fact that I normally have horrible practice times everytime I practice.

I dont know if Im the only one that is like that but. I know at Hastings my lap times were easily 4-6 sec onds faster in the race then any of my practices. Same with HPR I typically see a 3-4 sec. difference.

I dont have a problem with gridding by fastest practice times just wanted to make a point, that some people may be alot slower in practice.

But on the other hand at HPR Im am gonna be running Novice for the first time all year and could definately benifit from having a qualifier!!!

[DOUBLE A]

I think we will need internet access for that whitch isnt to bad, just get the satalite joby for $40, and you can have internet even @ HPR! I don't think we would have to do this fo all classes. Just the ones where it would bring back RACERS, novice probably dosn't need this, & Amatuer probably not.....SO I guess just the premier classes are the only ones really this makes sence for???? Thoughts? It would be easier if we only did for a few classes right? Plust we could see how it tested out...before we dive in all the way.

[glenngsxr]

If you switch to doing a qualifing grid setup I am so screwed :shock: Just for the fact that I normally have horrible practice times everytime I practice.

I dont know if Im the only one that is like that but. I know at Hastings my lap times were easily 4-6 sec onds faster in the race then any of my practices. Same with HPR I typically see a 3-4 sec. difference.

I dont have a problem with gridding by fastest practice times just wanted to make a point, that some people may be alot slower in practice.

But on the other hand at HPR Im am gonna be running Novice for the first time all year and could definately benifit from having a qualifier!!!

Steve, typically everyones race times are faster than their practice times.

[qwiksilver119]

I think that this is a really good idea. However, with people pushing harder during practice to get a better grid position are we giong to have more crashes? If so, how much will that slow down the day? What happens if we have to cancel a practice session all together because of a bad crash? Like I said, I think it is a great idea but this may be something to think about.

[Scored51]

Having had the experience of generating grids for the USGPRU this season, I will say that it is not within the reach of our club at this time.

[akuretz]

Having had the experience of generating grids for the USGPRU this season, I will say that it is not within the reach of our club at this time.

Care to expand on that? Is it a technical limitation?

[Munch]

Let's sell grid positions to the highest bidder

[DOUBLE A]

+1, haha AGREE, I will jump the start at the rear & do a 150MPH ride through penalty....MEATBALL baby yeah!

[gsnyder828]

I don't think we would have to do this fo all classes. Just the ones where it would bring back RACERS, novice probably dosn't need this, & Amatuer probably not..... Thoughts?

I think Novice and Am are actually a good place to put it (if we do it).

I just added AmO to my schedule for SOLE purpose of getting points to grid next year - as a hedge on what classes I may choose to run in 2010. 8)

I think a lot of amateurs and novices that would be top 5/10/15 sit out b/c of the thought of a 2nd wave start after the 1st race of the year.

Last race I started 18th (last - no points) - and quickly got to 9th before deciding that it wasn't worth tangling with the 3 guys clustered in front of me (only looking for a 2010 grid pos'n after all). With qualifying I'd've been racing with folks for a top 5 finish based on my lap times the rest of the weekend - and likely gridded in Row 2.

Now, that won't change my decision to race that class this year - it just means I'll be out there racing instead of "collecting points" for next April's grid.