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Thread: Raceday Schedule Discussion

  1. #1
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    Raceday Schedule Discussion

    Hello all,

    I would like to address the issue that was brought up at the Sunday riders meeting regarding the raceday schedule. One of the riders had asked Jim Brewer to take a poll to see how many liked the new "two days of racing" schedule and how many would rather go back to the "one day" schedule. The vote was overwhelmingly in favor of the new schedule. It was not unanimous, and I am not oblivious to the members who dissent, but we will never be able to please everyone and the operation of the club must be geared towards the wishes of the majority. Based on the feedback given directly to the board members, now backed up by the show of hands at the meeting, the majority of the members prefer the new schedule. I won't rehash the things we took into consideration when putting together the new schedule, but they are all listed in this post here http://forums.mra-racing.org/viewtop...?p=30448#30448

    The other issue that was brought up was the idea of moving all the sprint races to Sunday and eliminating the endurance races so that Saturday could be practice only and turned over to the track to be run as a promotor practice (ie, the club does not rent the track on Saturday, the practice is run by the track). This idea was offered as being financially beneficial to the club because we would save the costs of an additional day of track rental, insurance, sanctioning, corner workers, etc. I think this is a bad idea, for several reasons:

    - We go back to a long Sunday schedule and getting home later. Again, the majority of the members have to work on Monday morning so it's nice to have the raceday end around 4:00 rather than 6:00.

    - Most of the incremental costs associated with the second day of running an event are not linear. Sanctioning is a flat fee per event whether it is a one day event or a week long endurance race. Insurance costs are similar, there is a hefty premium simply to aquire the policy, then a much smaller charge to add an additional days coverage to the same policy. In other words, insuring a two-day event does not cost twice as much as a one-day event. There are other examples but I won't bother to list them. All this goes towards saying that while going to a single day event would likely result in a reduction of entry fees for the racers, it would not be a 50% reduction as some might argue.

    - Turning the practice day over to the track results in a loss of control over the program. We could no longer control, and be held accountable for, the quality of the workers and the procedures they follow, the ambulance staff, the structure of the sessions, tech inspection standards, whether or not non-race-licensed riders are allowed, etc.

    - Turning the practice day over to the track also results in a loss of control over the COST of the practice day. Just for arguments sake, let's say that going to "one day" racing lowers your race entry fees by $100 (I doubt it would be that much, but I'm just throwing numbers out). Who's to say that the track won't charge MORE than that for their Saturday promotor practice? This actually isn't an unlikely scenario because the same weekend now has TWO separate insurance policies, both at the hefty initial premium. It also has two different entities (the MRA and the track) with various and separate overhead costs to service, plus the profit motives of the track may not be the same as the club, depending on the venue. So it is possible, even likely, that the total costs for the racer to ride both days will go UP, not down.

    - Clubs that schedule two-day events get priority date selection over those that do single day events, so this would have an obvious impact on our ability to get the dates that make sense for us, or even to get dates at all.

    - No one can guarantee that the tracks would actally DO a promotor practice. From a track operator's perspective it is a lot easier (and profitable) to rent to a club that simply comes in, runs their own show, writes a check, and leaves - than it is to organize an event. They would have to organize signups and collect money, contract ambulance services, find and pay corner staff, get insurance, sanctioning, etc, etc. If I ran the track and the MRA wanted to rent Sunday only and for Saturday I had the option of either running a promotor practice for motorcycles OR renting Saturday to one of the smaller car clubs that does single day events, I think that would be a pretty easy choice. Additionally, if the track DID schedule a promotor practice and there weren't enough signups to make it financially viable, nothing prevents them from simply cancelling it at the last minute.

    So, those are my thoughts on the matter. I think this is a very important issue and I wanted everyone to know the possible consequences of the plan that was suggested, but I also didn't want the riders meeting to go on for an hour while we discussed it.
    The GECCO

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  2. #2
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    Leave it as it is. It makes the majority of the racers lives easier and if there really is not a substantial savings to the club then why bother with it?

    The negatives seem to out way the few positives.
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  3. #3
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    I like the two day schedule as well.

    The only other opinion that I have is to move around some races within the two days. I'm mainly talking about the novice races on saturday and moving them to sunday in hopes of getting more guys & gals into racing.....

    just my .02 cents

  4. #4
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    I think we need to move one or both Novice races to Sunday. I know of 2 people who had planned to come race this season and race prepped their bikes(one actually went through the MRA school) and when they found out that the Novice races were on Saturday they decided not to. Both work at local motorcycle shops so they were unable to get every Saturday off. One of them rides a 1000 so the only race he would be able to run on Sunday with the current schedule is AmO. By moving the Novice races to Sunday, we could get more new racers that cant make Saturday and also get the ones that pack up and leave Saturday afternoon to stick around another day.

    I say keep the Endurance races, too. Us guys with open class bikes are limited with how many classes we can run so it gives us one more opportunity to ride and earn some contingency each race weekend.
    MRA #29

  5. #5
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    I agree with Dingle and Jim

    By juggling the novice/AM races a little bit we would end up with more sign ups. It would allow the people that are employed by the shops to have a full race day on Sunday and allow (almost force) the novices that leave on Saturday to stick around for the Sunday schedule.

    Just my .02
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  6. #6
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    I'm curious, what percentage of new racers each year are bike shop employees?

    I keep hearing the bike shop employee issue come up, but I can't imagine there are that many new ones signing up every year.

    If they're a small minority, why would we make scheduling concessions for them and not for (potential) novice racers who work at churches? (rhetorical question)

    I think the new schedule works well. Novices on a budget can race Saturday only or race Sat. and corner work sunday. Bike shop novices can race Am races on Sunday. Others can race all weekend. Bike shop novices on big bikes can ask for time off or choose to race a smaller bike. Perpetual (multi-year) bike shop novices can choose to get an expert license for more available races to compete in.

    Lots of options for everyone to pick from.

  7. #7
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    The new sched is wonderful.. >Brilliant and perfect... I hope we keep it exactly as it is.

    and dont drop Endurance :evil:



    Quote Originally Posted by gsnyder828
    I'm curious, what percentage of new racers each year are bike shop employees?

    I keep hearing the bike shop employee issue come up, but I can't imagine there are that many new ones signing up every year.
    mmmm 3-4 people. (NOT percent)

  8. #8
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    Our newest teammate happens to be a shop employee that works on Saturday. What does he do? He runs Amateur races on Sunday. If you really want to race, as Geoff said, there are plenty of options.

    I also agree that this schedule is AWESOME. I would say keep it the same for next year. Now all racers know what the schedule is, if they need saturdays off then start requesting now.

    I raced in Phoenix during the off season and they have the "trackday" on Saturday then races on Sunday. However, their grids consist of 10-15 racers per class, track is local, and Sunday is still short. I'm with everyone else that wanted a shorter Sunday, and the board did just that!!!
    Casey D

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluedevil
    The new sched is wonderful.. >Brilliant and perfect... I hope we keep it exactly as it is.

    and dont drop Endurance :evil:



    Quote Originally Posted by gsnyder828
    I'm curious, what percentage of new racers each year are bike shop employees?

    I keep hearing the bike shop employee issue come up, but I can't imagine there are that many new ones signing up every year.
    mmmm 3-4 people. (NOT percent)
    ... and how many of ALL the people only willing to run on Sunday would drive of the more than 850 miles round trip to Hastings for a single day of racing? (Man, I hope we keep going to that track!) I'm sure they exist, but the number seems to be further and further distilled with every question asked.

    I too love the schedule, and wouldn't change it. Packing up the transponder equipment and trailer/race bike, I am able to join my family for a late dinner in Westminster on Sunday evening. This goes a long way in gaining the "brownie points" that fuel my efforts to get back on the track.

    This year's schedule has also provided racing cheaper to all of our members, novices and experts alike, than a lot of open track days. Of course you have to be willing to show up on Saturday. I also personally think splitting up the novice and amateur races is good for the novices as it provides off track time to get to know the members of our club and become immersed in its culture. And with all the time for bench racing, they may learn something that will help them go faster on the track.

    This is all just an opinion (and we all know what opinions are like!), but it's where my vote will be.

  10. #10
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    I really like the idea of getting home earlier on Sundays, it really does make a huge difference.

    One idea that is simply that, has anyone brought up the idea of having a RoR O/U race both Saturday and Sunday? Yes I know it adds time to Saturdays schedule (and may cause a host of other issues I am unaware of) but Saturday doesnt normally run that long as it is.

    In 06 the Miller series ran it this way and the thing i liked best about it was that if you had a bad race on Saturday you had the chance to redeem yourself on Sunday. It also gives people who have a couple of bad RoR races the chance to climb back into the points.

    I havent thought or know about the issues with the purse/trophies/etc but thought i would just throw it out there

  11. #11
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    I love it the way it is.
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  12. #12
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    I would really like to move it back to one day or possibly the nov races to sunday and keep endurance sat. But the only problem is I know for myself and a ton of my friends cant race nov because we work in a dealership and cant get saturday off. Just my input
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  13. #13
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    The whole people working at a dealership issuse comes up because there are alot of hopeful racers just sitting in shops. I happen to be one of them as well. Im not really complaining about the races on saturday but it would be nice to be able to do more then one race on a sunday.

    It would be nice to race a smaller bike, but you take what you can get sometimes and different people like different things. If I had the money to ride a 600 as well I would, but hey thats why I work at a dealership, to pay the bills I already have and to help the funding in racing.

    Alot of you racers are sponsored by local shops, they help you out in one way or another, why not cut the guys there that want to race a bit of slack?

    So moving some novice races over to sunday wouldnt be a horrible idea.

    Just my 2 cents

  14. #14
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    moving the Nov races to sundays would have been great for this year. but sense its a bit late it doesnt matter. keeping it the same next year would be great cuz now us Nov guys know when to request Vacation time for next year :lol:
    I say keep it

  15. #15
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    As a racer, I like the racing spread over a couple days. I also like that we can get back home at a decent hour, especially from Hastings. Most of us work Mon morning. Bike shops are often closed on Monday so it seems you please one group or the other.

    As a corner worker, I won't come if we're racing on only one day. Cost of my gas to get to the race is just enough to cover gas on a 2-day event. If it were 1 day, it would cost me money to work corners.

    I also propose a double-header on both MPH weekends for the same reason. Fuel. By the time we haul out there, if it were 3 days, it would be more worth while as a racer and corner worker. Even on a 3-day weekend, it doesn't cover a corner worker's gas to drive out, let alone a 2-day race.

  16. #16
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    I like the two day format....

    I don't like the the double header weekends.
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  17. #17
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    my vote says keep it the way it is.

    most weekends i run both nov classes on saturday and both am classes on sunday and it's worked out perfectly for me.

    my only complaint is the BIG gap between am u and am o on sunday forcing me to stick around until the end, but that's not a big deal anyway.

    thanks for putting this up to gauge everyone's opinion and thanks in advance for not going back to a one day schedule.

  18. #18
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    The new two day schedule has pros and cons for everyone. The board did a good job of dividing the schedule fairly. Novice, experts, lightweights, middleweights, heavyweights and open riders are spread evenly between both days.

    There are a few experts not racing because of the schedule change too. Either leave it alone or go back to a one day format with Saturday endurance races.

    I will race no matter the format!

  19. #19
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    I know that many riders cant race both days. Novices and experts alike. I personally would've liked to try for supersport but cant due to the changes but still enjoy my sundays anyway. There are a good number of novices that cant make saturday. I look at their situation more so than mine. If 2 classes were switched with NOV classes to have them on sunday I think there would be an increase amount of entries for the newbies and not have a large impact on saturdays. Not that it affects me but it may affect the club as a whole. Just a thought.

    Rick #259

  20. #20
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    Here is what I gathered from what people have suggested; three different options

    1) stay at this years two day schedule
    2) go back to last years one day
    3) stay at two day schedule but switch Novice classes to sunday and switch 2 other races to sat.

    I terms of growing as a club, I think option 3 is our best bet to gain new entrants......

  21. #21
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    From a slightly different perspective... Bearing in mind I haven't raced on the new schedule yet (not that it would change my racing up at all anyway) but I say keep it, maybe moving novice races around a little IF it actually means more people will come race (if not then there's no point).

    Some of the long Sunday's we had before were absolutely brutal on those of us who crewed the track to make it ridable for the rest of the MRA. I can remember some nights where it ran so late because of crash-related delays and other things (oil spills, rain delay, etc) that we didn't even start packing the truck up until the sun was almost completely set. When crews who are getting paid $60 to show up at 6:30am don't get to leave until 8 or 9pm in the darkness and drive hours home when they're too tired to focus on the lines on the highway, it really discourages them from coming back.

    The fact that a one day schedule would be of minimal financial benefit, or that it's annoying to drive to Hastings for an afternoon of riding, are also good points, but I think making sure the cornerworkers aren't punished too badly shouldn't be underestimated.

    Just my $0.02 from someone who's been there...
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  22. #22
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    Just another perspective. I REALLY liked last years schedule, as I could relax on Saturday, then practice, and race Endurance, then go for the sprint schedule on Sunday.

    I also enjoyed the Motard on Saturday the first year I started racing, after cornerworking, so let me shove in a whole other kettle of fish...

    Bring back Motard at the end of Saturday, after Endurance, with LWGP and Colorado class, and whatever else we can shoehorn in. This will result in a bit less practice, for some (okay more than a few), but could allow us to retap into the Motard money. I don't know how it worked out back then, but it seemed to my uneducated (and admittedly nearsightedly nearsighted, fun to drive at night) eye that we got some $$$ from that crowd. Of course the fact that I'm bringing back the Great Pumpkin has absolutely NO bearing on this opinion.

    Anyhow, that's it from here. Ride on.
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  23. #23
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    How about we do practice and endurance on Saturdays then Sunday sprints at HPR, PMP, and PPIR. Then use the two day format (this years format) at MPH.

    With travel time a two day format works well for MPH.

    But the more local tracks like PMP, HPR and PPIR could be returned to the Sunday sprint format. The travel time isn't so extreme.

    What does everyone think of this idea?

    Jeff

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