Terrorists Attack US Soil AGAIN !

[bluedevil]

http://www.time.com/time/business/ar...ed-rss-netzero


Exxon Mobil reported second-quarter earnings of $11.68 billion Thursday, the biggest quarterly profit ever by any U.S.

[benfoxmra95]

I missed where it said there were terrorists? Or even foreigners for that matter.

Its an American company based out of Irving Texas. If your upset with them making money on gas then sell your race bike and all your cars.

You can't blame someone for making money off something that is in high demand, that's one of the virtues that this country founded off of


I say blame ourselves for letting ourselves become so dependent on the people who own the oil. If you have a problem with alcohol you don't blame the brewery.

[dave.gallant]

If you have a problem with alcohol you don't blame the brewery.

No, but we blame Phillip Morris ("Big Tobacco") for all the lung cancer?

I am as confused as you Ben.

[bluedevil]

Do Terrorists have to be foreign? :lol:


Americans did drive 9 billion less miles this year over last..... so way to go America... At least we are doing what we can to eliminate the need for as much petrol.....

My race bike for next year will be hydrogen and produce only water as exhaust... wait a minute... dang.. Not yet... :cry:

[T Baggins]

I think this is a "slightly" different situation though, Ben. The oil companies are bankrupting the country - simply because they can. Yeah, it sucks that we've gotten so dependent on oil - but it's not like we can all just say "I think I'll buy a bicycle instead of driving" because the existing infrastructure has been built entirely around motorized travel.

I'm the last one to think the Government can do anything right - but methinks it's time for them to call bullshit and regulate the price of gas - even if only in the short term - in the name of a National Emergency. Anybody remember Bush's speech following the limited pockets of price gouging after 9-11. "I will not sit back and let the oil companies take advantage of the American public..." Well now it's going on all over the country - and nobody seems to be the least bit concerned.

I happen to know that a local company that refines oil is only paying around $50 per barrel versus $140 or whatever the world market is commanding. Yet they're selling the final product at a price consistent with the $140 cost. That's BS!

Imagine what would happen to the US economy if the US oil companies decided to make a fair and reasonable margin (even if it is TWICE what they usually make) by dropping the price of gas and diesel by $1.50 or $2.00 per gallon when selling domestically. Unemployment would drop, consumer confidence would go up, the profitability of US companies would improve, etc, etc, etc...

Yeah, go ahead and rape and pillage the rest of the world who don't have their own reserves - but Jeezus Christ, enough is enough here at home. When the US goes completely broke, everyone is unemployed, and anarchy reigns supreme, and the oil companies find themselves in the middle of a civil war - who they gonna sell gas to then?

Eff those effing, effers! Efffff!

[bluedevil]

Tony, its not true what they say about you at all..... haha

U may have taken an Economics class or two in your life... or watch a lot of CNN..either way.. I have to agree.....

Its cool to make a profit.. Its cool to make a huge profit... but when you bankrupt the country and sink the dollar bill (not single handedly), what point does it become un-ethical...?

Hell I think $80 an hour to have my car worked on is nuts.. but at least I dont have to pay that every day I wake up... Hell some people are to the point of working to pay for gas to get to work the next day....

Its legalized terroism..... (extreme I know) but in many case very similar.... So far the only happy people are the oil companies and Vespa who's sales rose something like 800% this year.... :?

[The GECCO]

I don't fault the oil companies. Their profit margins (around 8%) are lower than most other large industrial companies. If I could only make 8% in my industry, my boss would have shown me the door long ago.

So, if you maintain the same profit margin and the price of your commodity skyrockets, and there is no significant decrease in demand - you're net profits will go up. It's inevitable, and simply a product of the numbers.

Here's another way to look at it - if the oil companies aren't making a profit, there's no way they can invest in future projects that are necessary to insuring that they can continue to be in business, and continue to provide us with the energy we so desperately need. But, let's ignore that and assume that the oil companies have decided to forgo all profits and operate at a break-even. Furthermore, let's assume that 100% of that $11.68 billion of profit came from the US (when in truth, these are international corporations and less than half of their profits originate here).

So, $11.68 billion profit per quarter. There are 300 million people in the US, throw out 50 million that are underage or don't buy gasoline for other reasons, that leaves us with 250 million people.

$11.68 billion divided by 250 million = $46.72 per person per quarter, or about $15.50 per month.

That means that with all the assumptions above, if Exxon suddenly decided to operate at a break-even, thereby ensuring their own demise, it would save you about $15.50 per month. Personally, I would rather pay the $15 and know that I'm still gonna have heat in ten years.

[glenngsxr]

Although I think the oil companies are making way too much, I do not believe it is their fault. The speculation in the oil traders market is to blame for this booboo. The ratio of supply and demand has been relatively the same for the past eight years so it's not true that market forces driving the price of oil up, it's traders. I can buy 100 barrels of oil from Exxon for $50 and NEVER take possession of it and then resell it whoever I want for whatever I want. This is the loophole that has caused the oil to explode. I did my senior thesis on this in college for economics degree and my discertation for my masters on it as well. It is interesting stuff, this economy. I blame two things for this market in the short term and one long term. Two short---Treating houses like ATM's and oil. Long term--Iraq will bankrupt us. This admin has taken a $240 billion surplus and created a $9.5 trillion accounting sheet of red ink. Glenn #62

[bluedevil]

Personally, I would rather pay the $15 and know that I'm still gonna have heat in ten years.

U may still not have heat (or oil) in 10 years.... then what? Oil is not unlike the ole fashion alien movie... Aliens come to Earth and use up its resources, then move on... It will run out.. Maybe not when we are alive.. but it will... Do we continue to money grubbing mongers that gouge all we can from the "turnip" then find the next soure of fuel to do the same?

Im interested in this profit margin of 8%.. Where does that come from? How can they make oil for pennies or a few bucks a barrel and sell for 140 and only make 8%.. Are they so out of whack on other costs they only pull down 8% profit...? Im guessing its the multi million dollar salary for that Janitorial tecnition... Jeeesh..

[kangsoh]

For what it's worth guys, I can tell you that we're (an oil and gas company) not making the $130-$140 per bbl that everyone's up at arms about. We (and most everyone else) "hedges" production way in advance- which means that anything coming out of the ground today, has more than likely already been sold at an agreed upon price way in advance. So, depending on what our contract negotiators (as well as negotiators for refiners such as BP, Exxon, Shell, etc..) set up contracts for in advance, the reality could be that we're making far less than what a barrel of oil is going for on the open market. As I was told by our contact negotiator, anyone who thought that oil was going to be this high 6mos to a year ago is either clairvoyant or knew something that everyone else didn't at that time. This price paid per barrel also doesn't account for production costs, which as companies are forced to go to further extremes (deeper reservoirs, more inaccessible locations, refining of more "dirty"/heavy oil) cut into that profit as well. Conspiracy theories regarding price gouging on the part of "big oil" aside, it all comes down to supply and demand, as well as simple business economics. If we didn't need/want that much oil, then it wouldn't be an issue, would it? I'll tell the guys offshore when I'm out there next to step up production a bit next time and that should take care of our problem....

Oh, and "hi" to everyone that I haven't talked to/seen in awhile. Hope you all are doing well...

[The GECCO]

Personally, I would rather pay the $15 and know that I'm still gonna have heat in ten years.

U may still not have heat (or oil) in 10 years.... then what?

The oil companies are already investing in alternative energy technologies. Obviously they don't want these technologies brought to market now, but everyone knows (and the oil companies know it better than anyone) that eventually the oil will run out. When that happens these same companies would like to continue to exist and make money rather than simply disappear, so they are currently investing in ways to provide energy beyond the life cycle of the oil in the ground.

[benfoxmra95]

your way off the mark calling this "legalized terrorism"

When an activist walks into a resturant filled with Australia, new Zealand, american, and Japanese tourists in Bali with a back packed filled with explosives and steel balls and sharp metal scraps to inflict as much pain suffering and "terror" on people as possible. Now that's terroism, to strike fear in the hearts of people to the point thier afraid to carry on normal business and lifestyles.

As crooked as oil companies can be and are, they are not terrorizing the American population. We all have a choice. Truthfully if we really wanted to be good we'd stop burning the thousands of gallons of fuel to get to the track and ride at the track.

[bluedevil]

For what it's worth guys, I can tell you that we're (an oil and gas company) not making the $130-$140 per bbl that everyone's up at arms about. We (and most everyone else) "hedges" production way in advance- which means that anything coming out of the ground today, has more than likely already been sold at an agreed upon price way in advance. So, depending on what our contract negotiators (as well as negotiators for refiners such as BP, Exxon, Shell, etc..) set up contracts for in advance, the reality could be that we're making far less than what a barrel of oil is going for on the open market. As I was told by our contact negotiator, anyone who thought that oil was going to be this high 6mos to a year ago is either clairvoyant or knew something that everyone else didn't at that time. This price paid per barrel also doesn't account for production costs, which as companies are forced to go to further extremes (deeper reservoirs, more inaccessible locations, refining of more "dirty"/heavy oil) cut into that profit as well. Conspiracy theories regarding price gouging on the part of "big oil" aside, it all comes down to supply and demand, as well as simple business economics. If we didn't need/want that much oil, then it wouldn't be an issue, would it? I'll tell the guys offshore when I'm out there next to step up production a bit next time and that should take care of our problem....

Oh, and "hi" to everyone that I haven't talked to/seen in awhile. Hope you all are doing well...

Its not supply and demand... Thats putting it far to simple.... Supply and demand is how much I pay for my Ipod....

If Id pay 1K for an Ipod... the price would be 1K... However I wont so they make it 199 (for example) but I dont NEED my Ipod and I have the choice to pay 1K or not... I dont have that luxury for gas or food..... At that point supply and demand becomes a 101 prionciple and extortion becomes thae main principle......

Secondly: We dont feel sorry for an oil company that says.. "the reality could be that we're making far less than what a barrel of oil is going for on the open market" because the end result is still a bagillion dollars profit and the CEO driving a Ferrari (ON Tuesday) and the Lambo on Wed..... The actual real life world we live in is that more often than not the company is making MORE than its going for on the open market....


As long as we give the main fuel of the earth to a private owner.. this will never end.... With out regulation, when oil is gone it will happen again wiht the next alternative fuel... I guess Ben in reality was right.. Its our fault if we allow ourselves to repeave our faults and allow it to happen again.... Once bitten shame on your.. twice bitten, shame on us.....

[bluedevil]

your way off the mark calling this "legalized terrorism"

When an activist walks into a resturant filled with Australia, new Zealand, american, and Japanese tourists in Bali with a back packed filled with explosives and steel balls and sharp metal scraps to inflict as much pain suffering and "terror" on people as possible. Now that's terroism, to strike fear in the hearts of people to the point thier afraid to carry on normal business and lifestyles.

As crooked as oil companies can be and are, they are not terrorizing the American population. We all have a choice. Truthfully if we really wanted to be good we'd stop burning the thousands of gallons of fuel to get to the track and ride at the track.

yes agreed perhaps to bold or extreme of a statement....I guess it depends on how loose the deffinition of Terrorism is... In the extreme case you mentioned... yes the loss is life or the right to enjoy life.... but on a much less extreme example, isnt taking away my enjoyment of life, by making it unattainable financially... the same thing? Its not as terrible as taking my life.. but in the end a loss of the enjoyment of life is still the result.... .. kinda similar right? just a more loose deffinition of the word terrorism.... :?:

[bluedevil]

We all have a choice. Truthfully

wont go into this one much.. but no we ALL dont have the choice... your bread and milk have to get on the shelf some how and to date the only way is burinig gallons of diesel in a truck to get it there... unless I want to own a cow and grow my own grain..it has to remain that way at this point in life....

[kcecil]

Don't forget the HUGE devaluation the dollar has recently experienced as one of the causes for the spike in crude prices, since oil is traded in $. That is thanks to our Federal Reserve Bank flooding the market with free dollars since 2001.

Increasing demand around the world, known decline of production in sight, dollar devaluation, instability in source countries, and rampant speculation have all come together in an unholy confluence to give us the prices we pay now.

[HAMMER]

good thing i ride a 50 that gets 90mpg ...... 4 bucks a week ........suckers :lol: :shock:

[gsnyder828]

:lol:

Everyone up in arms about those horrible big oil companies extorting outrageous 8.4% profit margins from the innocent public need to take some hopium and relax...

Just be careful - it's mildly habit forming.

[kangsoh]

Wow.....

Lest I appear to be an apologist for the oil and gas industry, I will make it quite clear that it in fact is about supply and demand.

There's something that you need, and given the fact that your average Joe doesn't have the ability (in skills, materials, manpower, technological knowhow or otherwise) to explore for, extract and refine the natural resource into a useable product, we rely on industry. This industry has the ability to focus exclusively on delivering this product as efficiently as possible to the consumer while at the same time doing this at a profit. So how is this wrong? Does the fact that you have to pay someone else to make your clothing, build your house, or produce the food that you eat mean that they don't have a right to make a profit off of it? And how much exactly is "too much"?

Look at what happened when people did own the mineral rights to the oil they discovered on their property- they turned around and sold it to someone else to explore and produce for them. And in those boom days, what happened? The uncontrolled production of oil created a "glut" in the market, driving down prices, and causing many in the industry to go bankrupt/out of business. Those that remained, consolidated and created a means of regulating the supply to meet demand so as to make sure that there would be a steady supply at reasonable prices (and profit) to all. An interesting ancillary result of all the unregulated production was the fact that many reservoirs of oil were prematurely put out of production due to the rapid and inconsistent nature of the way they were produced.

You want government intervention or better yet nationalization of the oil industry as a solution? It's been around for awhile in other countries- look at Petrobras in Brazil or Total in France. You think that it makes it any easier for the "working man" to drive a dually to work because of government control in the industry? How many dually drivers do you see in either of those countries?

So, given the fact that American society has evolved to the point where it has become dependent on the petroleum industry, now that supplies are tightening, as the natural resource pool dwindles and there are more consumers for the dwindling product coming out of the ground (India and China), there now is some mysterious conspiracy and evil profiteering occuring at the hands of corporate America? You point to the extravagant lifestyles of oil and gas executives, but does that mean everyone driving a Ferrari or Porsche or Lamborghini is a criminal profiteer? Yeah, maybe $10 million a year is excessive, but how well of a job do you think that you could do running a multi-million dollar a year enterprise? Better yet, does anyone "deserve" that much a year in salary? Is it any more wrong that someone gets a multi-million dollar contract to punt a ball around a field or ride a motorcycle on a track? Let's not confuse perception and personal opinion with facts here...

Let's call it like it is- we set ourselves up as a society dependent on petroleum, and for many years, as the largest consumer of petroleum on the planet, we enjoyed the ability to have the fruits of everyone else's production. Now that there's a dwindling supply, and the producers have a choice in what markets to sell to, let's not play the role of the spoiled child and cry about it.

Let's be adults and adapt to the situation and accept the change as an impetus to become a society less reliant on oil all around. Biodiesel, wind, geothermal, solar, fuel cell, hydrogen- there are alternative fuel technologies that are available to us, but haven't been investigated because it has been easier to just continue on our oil dependent course....

I work with people who have to pay the same bills you do, have a mortgage like you do, and have the same mouths to feed that you do. These were the same people who during the oil bust of the 80's and early 90's were out of jobs doing things to make ends meet. None of them are running around in a different exotic car every day of the week, or are laughing their way to the bank. We all work jobs like you do and have to pay the same price at the pump that you do. It may be a smaller portion of our paycheck to do so, but it still hurts us the same when the price goes up at the pump. To call us "terrorists" or "extortionists" as if we go out of our way as a collective industry to squeeze everyone else out of their last nickle and dime is quite an extreme assessment of the situation.

So you give up the ipod, the dually, and maybe downsize the car. You don't eat out as much, or you skip a race weekend. You do what you have to in order to make ends meet. It's not the government's responsibility to make it so that you can do everything you want in life as you always have. Sure, it sucks, and it's not fair, but that's life....

Sorry for the rant! I'll go back to lurking...

[T Baggins]

Aaah, Kanger - don't be a lurker... you're way more fun when you rant. :lol:

I think the big difference here is that, singlehandedly, not a one of us have the ability to do a damn thing about it. Not until those whe stand to profit the most have profited the most (or there is a coup), will there be a significant shift in American policies on oil dependence. This includes many of our elected officials, some of them in the highest of offices - and of course the lobbyists who represent special interests will spend as much money as they can to make sure the cash train keeps rolling.

As citizens, we're too dependent on gas, that's for sure - but the government is too dependent on gas TAXES to allow rapid transition to alternative fuels until they figure out how to get their fingers into the cash flow. This is where we get the money to build the infrastructure of our roads, etc... Our government NEEDS us to keep using gas.

I think you could say that Americans are similarly dependent upon denim jeans. I mean, pretty much everyone has them - and it could be argued "needs them" But here's the difference, I can choose between "seven" jeans that are $140 and Wal-mart specials for $8. Both pretty much do the same job - and if money is tight I'd certainly opt for the lesser brand. Last I checked, there was no lower grade of fuel available to me at a lower cost.

And before you call me a conspirast (is that a word?) consider that the two leading causes of un-natural death - which contribute more to the Health Care costs than probably all other ailments combined - are not only not outlawed in the US, but in fact we tax the shit out of them so our government can continue to fund it's overstuffed self. Anyone care for a beer or cigarette?? :lol:

Am I opposed to someone making a reasonable profit for items they produce or sell - heck no. That's capitalism. (for the record I say it is total bullshit that they're making 8% profit - yeah maybe after they bonus everyone out at twice their normal salary, buy all new everything, and then write off a bunch of bogus bad debt...) But, in this situation, where the negative impact of the cost of the product is SO far reaching - I don't think some sort of regulation is unreasonable.

This is affecting the cost of food, goods, travel, employment, schools, etc, etc, etc... EVERYTHING we do in the US is dependent upon transportation. It's easy to sit back and say "shame on us" but that doesn't really fix the problem does it? A meaningful, COOPERATIVE, transition to dependence on other fuel sources needs to be created. We can't just watch this great nation crumble because one industry is making gazillions of dollars.

Even if it were mostly symbolic, and definitely temporary, SOME reigning in of gas prices would have an immeasurably POSITIVE imact on the US economy. Somebody please refute that...

[newb]

I don't usually talk politics or things dealing with government because they are always a heated conversation. I will say however that I am not happy with the current price of oil and gas. It impacts everyone and it is far reaching. I have started riding my mountain bike to work (sure it's only 2 miles) to save on the price of fuel.

But I would not go as far as calling the oil companies terrorists or being angry at them. We have been spoiled here in the US for a long time. The price of gas in many parts of Europe exceeded five dollars ten years ago and they have adapted. It is not normal in those countries to see 3/4 ton trucks in peoples driveway. They don't all have 300 plus hp cars to take little Johnny to school in the morning. It is not embarrassing to be seen on a moped. They use public transportation and get this, ride a bike or walk. How many people on here carpool? How many people ride a bike(with pedals) instead of driving?

As a whole the racing community has the least room to complain(myself included) about oil. We drive big trucks with trailers to race tracks hundreds, if not thousands, of miles away. Once we are they we tear through race fuel, and tires like there is an endless supply. For what? To have some fun for a weekend? A season? For a number plate? A $25 dollar trophy?

If you want to call a company terrorists, look at insurance companies. At least oil companies provide a tangible product. You can't stockpile insurance and they make just as much money. Insurance companies have yet to have a losing year and you are required to have insurance.

We do have choices. No you cannot change how your read is transported but you can buy local fruits and vegetables. Usually they are healthier and taste better. Cut out the Starbucks and make coffee at home. Turn down thermostats, and turn off lights when not needed. The list goes on and on. Any one of the may not offset the cost by itself but they all help.

To end my long winded rant, I do not agree with the prices but I have accepted that to enjoy the things I like in life, I have to deal or make changes. I am not blaming anyone but myself and don't expect the government to bail us out and keep weakening the dollar. Because guess what, subsidizing will only add to the national debt. We all must make some sacrifices. Any one planning to quit racing because of gas prices?

[cu260r6]

In 2001 the percentage of speculators (those that don't use the oil they buy) that had a license to bid on oil commodities was only 27%. After deregulation of the licensing procedures by Republicans in Congress in 2003 this percentage began to rise sharply, and speculators now make up 81% of the oil commodities market. The rise in the price of a barrel of oil has tracked the rise in speculators in the commodities market. Reimplementing tighter controls would significantly reduce the price of oil.

Regardless of the solution sought there is no possible way to drill out of this problem. Being a world market whatever extra supply produced by the US will be either insignificant compared to world output or compensated for by OPEC nations with equally reduced output. Reducing the demand through conservation and alternatives s the only solution. Those that tell you we have gigantic domestic reserves are counting sources that are not economically practical currently. For example, gas would have to cost $10/gal to make oil shale commercially viable for the oil companies to pursue.

If you're a defender of Exxon or Big Oil profits as necessary or justified then look what they're using those profits for. Last year Exxon took $26 billion of profits and bought back shares of their stock to increase the price and the value of their company. Very little of this is going back into reinvestment or research. Oil companies are not researching cleaner energy because the need is not present yet. They believe there is 40 years worth of oil left, so any real research into alternatives can wait several more decades until it is pursued aggressively.

If you're interested in curbing your own use look up hypermiling. I get 32mpg normally and 18 mpg while towing out of my Tacoma through these techniques.

[The GECCO]

Here's another way to look at this evil company - while they posted record profits, they also paid record taxes. They paid $3 in taxes for every dollar of profit. Who else does that?


Source http://www.istockanalyst.com/article...ts_Record.html

Also, there is mention of the 8% profit margin on CNN's site

Defenders of oil company profits also point out that their profit margin, at around 8%, is slightly below average for S&P 500 companies, and far below the 20%-plus margins seen at companies such as Microsoft or Pfizer.

Source http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/31/news...ion=2008073109

[bluedevil]

Kangsoh: "how much is to much?" (In relation to profit)
My answer would be, when its bankrupting your country, raising unemployment to astonishing rates, driving the value of your dollar below the value of thepaper its printed on, and thus also contributing to the housing epidemic we are in, and so on.... Its a snow ball effect... Since gas/oil is the sole dependance of nearly every American, its also the one of the most significant driving forces in our economy... Its a huge cycle....

Lower gas = lower prices for food = more demand for other goods and services = need for jobs and thus lowers unemployment = less housing forclosure = more building of new houses = again more jobs and demand for not only jobs and goods such as wood....but again oil and gas ... Tada..... Profits still remain high for the oil companies because demand has still increased and the nice part is the price could have still stayed low to get there........

The thing is that no where in that chain can we break the cycle other than with fuel .....


Newb: Im totally with ya on the Americans having huge trucks/suv's etc and MOST do not need them..... Europeans have understood for a long time a scooter will generally cut the mustard in most cases and when it wont, they have a hampster with a stearing wheel as a car...... America is catching on (stobbornly) now... Decades to late.... I do however remember having a Datsun B210 when I was a kid in the early 80's.. It got like 400 miles to the gallon and fit 2.2 people in it comfortably... yet my folks fit the entire fam in there and gas was .69 cents a gallon... HAHA

Its true that we dont need most vehicles we drive... and for some that can afford a car payment (with out a job or house that they just lost) they can get a new hybrid or gas sippin car.. but sadly some are stuck with the gas sucker out of inability to afford a more gas friendly alternative yet... :cry:
I think by stating things like SUck it up, or stop going to Starbucks... is not quite the way to go about it... Though I do think extras like Starbucks or maybe even racing will have to go to maintain a budget with higher gas.... However, when you cut all that out and still can barely afford your pills for illness, or gas to get back to work to buy more gas.... Then what? What heppens when you have no "fat to trim" so to speak? We just say.. Sorry man... Better luck in 5 - 10 years when things get better ??? No Its just not that black and white in regards to just toughing it out..... Its the whole reason we have welfare, medicare, Social Security, Economic Simulus, Federal Reserve, and Politcians.... to fiddle and impliment a manual control over these things.... The sad part is (which was also stated earlier) Our government who is now also so dependant on tax revenue from fuel sales, they have tied their own hands from being able to fix the problem.... So they NEED gas and oil to sell and they need the price to be high, to receive the 30+ billion in tax revenue...... Our regulators that are in charge of equalizing all of these things, have unfortunately worked themselves out of their original purpose in the 1st dang place... :roll:

None the less..sorry for the long way around it.. but... I agree .. if you are able to own a more econimal and fuel efficient vehicle you should... Hell if you are able to cut it out completely and ride a bike or scooter..U should.....I myself traded in the ole 16 mph hwy truck for a 30+ mpg hwy cross over .... Its not a 60mpg Hybrid.. but it allowed me to save ~$180-200 a month in fuel costs (just shy of the payment cost, to lower my DEMAND for fuel, yet not lower my SUPPLY of income) and still had room enough to get me to the track..... (which has also suffered ... Though I didnt give it up, Ive been buget racing to the extreme... Pump gas instead of VP.. tires for more than 1 weekend instead of every weekend.. and dropping more than half the classes I raced.....) and when it gets to the point where that is no longer enough... I quit racing... but the end result will not be my unwillingness to do with out.. but more so the Oil tycoon who bought his 3rd Ferrari this year.... (and our pres who bombs people claiming "Weapons Mass Destruction" and only finds an ole AK in a cave we gave him 30 years ago ) but thats a whole different thread all together.. HAHA :wink:

If you want to call a company terrorists, look at insurance companies. At least oil companies provide a tangible product. You can't stockpile insurance and they make just as much money. Insurance companies have yet to have a losing year and you are required to have insurance.

BUT Newb.... Most insurance companies only make 1-2% profit.... :wink:


cu260r6: What you eluded to (I think) is exactly right.. The reason profits ar 8% is becuase of costs being abnormally high, and paying the , as I stated before) Janitorial Tech 27 mill a year.. by that I mean exec salaries that are way out of line.... Do they need 400 million (making up a figure for dramatic emphasis)? NO... They can get paid 300 million and still own 7 houses and 3 Ferraris, and over the overall corse of the company end up with 9% profit and drop the price .50 cents the pump in the mean time...
The fact is when you read financial numbers of any company anymore.. U have to take them with a grain of salt... They CAN be mad to say anything they want.. or at minimum skewed to look a certain way.... Do you think that oil companies want the public to see them making 40% profit? No way... So they say 8% or make it look like 8% yet boost record levels....This way all of us Americans see that.. "Oh well they are makin less than Levi is on my jeans I just bought..... They arent screwing me over.... :roll: "

Sorry I know carrying it to far... but in the world we have become.. we have to understand .. alot of people get paid alot of money to make Wallstreet "THINK" a certain way....

[bluedevil]

Wanted to mention... We already know we wont change anyones mind... but having a rational well thought out discussion about it is always nice... Plus its this or do work...HAHA

Thanks all or making my braincells actually wake up the last 2 days... and distracting me from my mindless thought process of work.... (That Im thankful for having so I can afford gas to get back here tomorrow.... :wink: )