Practice price

[polar x]

Glen, are we paying for Sat morning practice if we are racing Sat afternoon in anything besides Endurance?

It seems to me that since we are racing the SS classes, that should include morn practice just like Sunday race day.

For those racers who don't register for a race on Sat I understand they should pay for practice, just like Sunday.

[T Baggins]

$50 just as before.

You actually get more practice time under the new format.

[polar x]

So where is the practice time for the racers? If we don't pay the $50 does that mean we don't get practice before the races?

[The GECCO]

That's correct.

[TBSgraphics]

That's correct.

so racer that had races moved to saturday under your new rules are screwed out of partice time for the race, where the ones on sunday get free pratice with thier races...

so not only are many racers upset at the classes being moved to saturday, due to many of them work on saturdays and such, but now your charging them for the pratice also... and this was suppost to be a good thing? not for the racers on saturday I guess....

[TBSgraphics]

$50 just as before.

You actually get more practice time under the new format.

NOT as before, before the day of YOUR races you got morning pratice as part of the normal race fee's, but now you have to pay for pratice if your racing on satuday??

[Wild Cheetah 612]

We've discussed this and all the scenarios in Board Meetings and other forums. Most racers who race Supersport show up for practice on Saturday anyway. Then under the new schedule will stick around for races Sunday when practice is included. So basically, nothing changes as far as how much the vast majority of racers normally pay.

[T Baggins]

Yes, this has made "paying for practice" essentially mandatory - but nobody says you have to practice. I never do and look how damn fast I am.

I suggest we cancel practice altogether so nobody has to pay the UNBELIEVABLY INSANELY OUTRAGEOUS PRICE OF $50... and then to be fair, we should cancel practice on Sunday too - so nobody has an unfair advantage.

Chris, Frank - this doesn't even affect you guys because you practiced on Saturday anyway. Surely you have better things to do with your time - like maybe putting together your TZ's?

If someone that this ACTUALLY affects is concerned about it, I'm sure they'll let us know.

[The GECCO]

This is not a huge change. The number of people who run classes that have been moved to Saturday who were NOT already practicing on Saturday is very small. Those few people are getting the short end of the stick, but these changes were made to make things better for the majority of the club and it's impossible to please everyone.

No one was forcing people to participate in (and pay for) Saturday practice in the past, yet most everyone did. Why should those same people now get free practice (and the club lose the revenues) simply because some of their classes have been moved to Saturday?

[TBSgraphics]

[quote="T Baggins"] Surely you have better things to do with your time - like maybe putting together your TZ's?

quote]

Why yes, thats a great idea, but waiting for many,many parts including my crank, so in the mean time I spend too much time on the forums, posting non-sense posting and finding ways to waste your time replying with more non-sense posting :P

and in the last 10 years of racing w the mra, never ran any pratice time on saturday,
did the endurance /pratice/race but never sat morning pratice...

extra pratice time is for cheaters.... :lol:

[clowe]

I think this thing keeps getting worse and worse. I am not a rider rep but I have had not less than 15 different people complain to me about the new schedule and now this. So, since they can not grow a set to post something up here I am going to speak my mind in hopes that someone on the board will read this objectively and not as an attack on anyone. I just have three simple questions and then I will expound.

First question for the board, is one of the reason we have practice on Sunday morning for safety?

Second question for the board, did we make this schedule change at all to help racing to be more affordable, bring new racers in and hopefully grow the club?

Last question for the board, can the members please see the hard number (that I know we have) about who practiced and raced endurance on Saturday vs. who raced on Sunday?

Let me paint a picture, you are on the grid for the mwss race, there are 30 bikes behind you and only half of them have been out of the track and have seen the new turn 10 at Pueblo. It is the first race of the year and every novice who moved up from last year is just itching to show you how fast they are. Does this scare anyone? Does this sound very safe. To the board this issue does effect me and I am at a loss here.

Glenn, you wrote to me months ago that this schedule change would help to make racing more affordable for a new novice racer. How is that true when that same novice racer would have only come to track on Sunday and gotten practice for free, now they race on Saturday and have to pay for practice. The math does not add up. Glenn, you also asked this, "Why should those same people now get free practice (and the club lose the revenues) simply because some of their classes have been moved to Saturday?" The very simple answer is because they did not have a choice in the matter. The board made the call to change the schedue, not the members. This person used to get practice for free, why should we now charge them? That is not making racing more affordable.

Also, everyone knows that I brought up rain tires for SS many times. The board and rules committee has always said that allowing rain tires would drive up cost for SS racers. The board said that all racers would feel they needed to go and buy a $350 set of tires. But now all SS racers are going to feel the need to go and buy $450 worth of practice. Again, I'm not as smart as Tony and my math is not adding up.

AND, why did we have endurance practice in the past Was it because the board felt if might be a little safer if the racers got to see the track and do a few laps before they went out in anger?

So, I think this is about all I have to say. I think if people sign up for races on Saturday then practice should be apart of that. If people just want to practice then they pay for practice, that seems pretty simple to me.

To the board, you guys are great and I know you work very hard for very little. I hope you can read this without getting defensive and maybe take another look at what you are planning to do. Who knows, maybe if practice is included in bying races on Saturday (like it is on Sunday) the grids will have even more racers.

I am looking forward to direct answers to m questions.

Thanks,
Crash

[dragos13]

Let me paint a picture, you are on the grid for the mwss race, there are 30 bikes behind you and only half of them have been out of the track and have seen the new turn 10 at Pueblo. It is the first race of the year and every novice who moved up from last year is just itching to show you how fast they are. Does this scare anyone? Does this sound very safe. To the board this issue does effect me and I am at a loss here.
Thanks,
Crash

Being a novice that just moved up to expert, I would like to ask something about your post: Are you assuming that novice racers will be a danger to you because we dont practice and wont know the new layout? Or, is it that you think we will be too cheap to pay for the practice, get out there and not know whats going on? How are we going to be more of a danger just because the club (as they have always done) is going to charge $50 for saturday practice?

Like you also said, most novices didn't even come out on saturdays. This would mean they would still be a danger Sunday as well. Maybe I'm just not following the logic behind this comment.

[JimWilson29]

My interpretation of what Crash is saying is that a first year expert's lesser experience combined with the lack of practice on a Saturday morning could result in a negative scenario in the supersport races which are now scheduled early Saturday afternoon vs. that same first year expert participating in two practice sessions on Sunday morning before going out and competing in a ss, sbk, etc race.

[The GECCO]

First question for the board, is one of the reason we have practice on Sunday morning for safety?

I suppose the argument could be made that having practice makes racing safer, but IMO it isn't a driving factor behind having Sunday morning practice.

Second question for the board, did we make this schedule change at all to help racing to be more affordable, bring new racers in and hopefully grow the club?

The main drivers behind these changes were to use our time on Saturday more efficiently by spreading the classes out more. The way they are now arranged does three things 1) it lessens tire swaps from slicks to DOT's for SS racers 2) it allows current riders to enter more classes without having multiple back-to-back races 3) it will get us out of the track and on the road home earlier on Sunday

Last question for the board, can the members please see the hard number (that I know we have) about who practiced and raced endurance on Saturday vs. who raced on Sunday?

It isn't as easy as just pressing a button and having the number pop up. If you would like access to the records to determine this let me know and we can work something out.

Let me paint a picture, you are on the grid for the mwss race, there are 30 bikes behind you and only half of them have been out of the track and have seen the new turn 10 at Pueblo. It is the first race of the year and every novice who moved up from last year is just itching to show you how fast they are. Does this scare anyone? Does this sound very safe. To the board this issue does effect me and I am at a loss here.

What makes you think only half of the grid will have seen the new turn 10?

Glenn, you wrote to me months ago that this schedule change would help to make racing more affordable for a new novice racer. How is that true when that same novice racer would have only come to track on Sunday and gotten practice for free, now they race on Saturday and have to pay for practice. The math does not add up.

Sure it does. The majority of novices show up on Saturday and pay for practice as it is. Then they have to stay (overnight) in order to race on Sunday. If someone is only interested in racing the novice classes they can now come on Saturday and get all their racing done, save a night's worth of expenses and still have Sunday to mow the lawn. You are overlooking the fact that now that they "have" to pay for practice on Saturday isn't an additional expense for most.

Glenn, you also asked this, "Why should those same people now get free practice (and the club lose the revenues) simply because some of their classes have been moved to Saturday?" The very simple answer is because they did not have a choice in the matter. The board made the call to change the schedue, not the members. This person used to get practice for free, why should we now charge them? That is not making racing more affordable.

Again, we are talking about the majority here. While I don't have the numbers, simply looking at the track on Saturday morning will tell anyone that MOST people are out there anyway. So, if a rider voluntarily paid for Saturday practice in 2007, I don't see how they can argue that they deserve free practice in 2008 just because we re-arranged the schedule.

Also, everyone knows that I brought up rain tires for SS many times. The board and rules committee has always said that allowing rain tires would drive up cost for SS racers. The board said that all racers would feel they needed to go and buy a $350 set of tires. But now all SS racers are going to feel the need to go and buy $450 worth of practice. Again, I'm not as smart as Tony and my math is not adding up.

You campaigned for rain tires on the basis of it being a safety issue. It is not. Racing in the rain with rain tires allows you go faster, it does not make it safer. And, again, that "$450 worth of practice" is not a NEW expense for most of the riders, because they are already participating.

AND, why did we have endurance practice in the past Was it because the board felt if might be a little safer if the racers got to see the track and do a few laps before they went out in anger?

Because the original (and current) reason for creating the endurance races was to raise money. This is why, to this day, NO ONE gets comped endurance racing. We knew that if someone was in a position of having to choose between paying for practice in the morning and running endurance (w/o any practice available) that most would not sign up for endurance. So, the "endurance racers only" practice sessions were added.

So, I think this is about all I have to say. I think if people sign up for races on Saturday then practice should be apart of that. If people just want to practice then they pay for practice, that seems pretty simple to me.

I disagree. Why should someone who doesn't own a bike that is legal for any of the Saturday classes be required to pay for something that another rider else gets for free because he owns a different bike?

[Clarkie]

The main drivers behind these changes were to use our time on Saturday more efficiently by spreading the classes out more. The way they are now arranged does three things 1) it lessens tire swaps from slicks to DOT's for SS racers 2) it allows current riders to enter more classes without having multiple back-to-back races 3) it will get us out of the track and on the road home earlier on Sunday

I like the new move, like Glen said there is no scramble to change from DOT's to slicks and back, we get home a little earlier Sunday night, and it means that we can have SS tear downs EVERY Saturday evening like at the Pueblo double header, in fact I will pull my engine out right after the SS race and just start tearing it down to the crank, that way I can finish mine and help tear everyone elses bikes down as well 8)

[JimWilson29]

...in fact I will pull my engine out right after the SS race and just start tearing it down to the crank, that way I can finish mine and help tear everyone elses bikes down as well 8)

that is mighty kind of you.

[TBSgraphics]

So, I think this is about all I have to say. I think if people sign up for races on Saturday then practice should be apart of that. If people just want to practice then they pay for practice, that seems pretty simple to me.

I disagree. Why should someone who doesn't own a bike that is legal for any of the Saturday classes be required to pay for something that another rider else gets for free because he owns a different bike?

The person racing the classes(NOT endurance, only talking about sprints) on saturday have already paid to be on track for saturday and the pratice only rider has not and should be charged,
WHO to say that the person racing on saturday is only going to race saturday, I knew of a few in the past only raced endurnacne and left due to personal, religius or other reason and were not there for sunday,
So the clubs is now going to charge them double for what racers on sunday get?

one fix could be to charge for sunday pratice also, then everyone get the same treatment

[giovannir6]

Man sounds to me like everyone needs to just twist the sh!t out of a bike, or get laid, so we can all calm the fook down.

For the love of God has everyone forgotten that this is club level racing?

Big thanks to the board, you guys are trying to make improvements and that goes a long way with me.

[The GECCO]

The main drivers behind these changes were to use our time on Saturday more efficiently by spreading the classes out more. The way they are now arranged does three things 1) it lessens tire swaps from slicks to DOT's for SS racers 2) it allows current riders to enter more classes without having multiple back-to-back races 3) it will get us out of the track and on the road home earlier on Sunday

I like the new move, like Glen said there is no scramble to change from DOT's to slicks and back, we get home a little earlier Sunday night, and it means that we can have SS tear downs EVERY Saturday evening like at the Pueblo double header, in fact I will pull my engine out right after the SS race and just start tearing it down to the crank, that way I can finish mine and help tear everyone elses bikes down as well 8)

Nah, just take it out and leave in my pit. We'll tear it down while you're putting in the SBK motor for Sunday!

[Clarkie]

sweet! Just as long as I get ALL the parts back

One out, one in, my goal is to do it in 60 minutes or less

[The GECCO]

So, I think this is about all I have to say. I think if people sign up for races on Saturday then practice should be apart of that. If people just want to practice then they pay for practice, that seems pretty simple to me.

I disagree. Why should someone who doesn't own a bike that is legal for any of the Saturday classes be required to pay for something that another rider else gets for free because he owns a different bike?

The person racing the classes(NOT endurance, only talking about sprints) on saturday have already paid to be on track for saturday and the pratice only rider has not and should be charged,
WHO to say that the person racing on saturday is only going to race saturday, I knew of a few in the past only raced endurnacne and left due to personal, religius or other reason and were not there for sunday,
So the clubs is now going to charge them double for what racers on sunday get?

No, Frank, read the schedule again. Someone who only wants to race endurance and still gets their endurance practice after the sprint races.

However, what Chris is proposing (unless I'm completely misunderstanding him) is this:

Rider A enters three races, all on Sunday
Rider B enters three races, one on Saturday and two on Sunday.
Both pay the same entry fees, but Rider A has to pay for Saturday practice and Rider B doesn't.

Does that seem fair?

one fix could be to charge for sunday pratice also, then everyone get the same treatment

Now who's making it more expensive?

[The GECCO]

sweet! Just as long as I get ALL the parts back

Well, the only tools I own are a hammer, a chisel and a plasma cutter. After I'm done with the tear down there'll be more parts than there were to start with, so you're all set!

[JimWilson29]

How about you hook the transponder system up to the entry fee billing system and charge like a dollar a practice lap to the riders credit card (unless it was stolen like mine).

[The GECCO]

How about you hook the transponder system up to the entry fee billing system and charge like a dollar a practice lap to the riders credit card (unless it was stolen like mine).

Further incentive to improve - a sliding scale! The lower the lap time, the lower the charge!

[Clarkie]

sweet! Just as long as I get ALL the parts back

Well, the only tools I own are a hammer, a chisel and a plasma cutter. After I'm done with the tear down there'll be more parts than there were to start with, so you're all set!

well that's what I use to build engines so you should be all set