Genoa Motorsports

[Coop]

Was just wondering why the MRA doesn't look into running a couple of races at Genoa Motorsports Park in 2008.

Here's the link.........

http://www.genoamotorsports.com/sub_rental.php

[polar x]

At the moment we currently have a number of clubs that have shown interest in renting the track for 20 of the 31-35 weekends we hope to have available for 2008.

Probably because of the WE HOPE TO HAVE AVAILABLE part. just guessing on it though. Kinda hard to schedule for something that is not even built yet.

[hcr25]

I thought they were breaking ground spring 2007? :shock:

[Coop]

I thought High Plains wasn't built yet either....... :roll:

[hcr25]

what language are you speaking?

[The GECCO]

I thought High Plains was built yet either....... :roll:

The biggest difference is that the MRA membership and the Board has been kept well informed of exactly where we are at in the High Plains Project since we own the thing. We know where the money is coming from and how much needs to be raised, when the permitting should be done, the construction schedule, etc, etc. Based on this information we feel comfortable committing dates to this facility in 2008.

We have no such information about Genoa. According to their "Progress Page" http://www.genoamotorsports.com/sub_progress.php they have been in the planning stage for at least a year and nothing appears to be happening. Now, having been in on the HPR process I can tell you that the APPEARANCE of nothing happening doesn't mean it's so, but without more information or seeing dirt being moved there isn't any sense in putting them on the schedule.

Because HPR will be OWNED BY THE CLUBS our first financial obligation is to support our own track, to race there and insure it stays financially viable. Of course races will be scheduled at other venues, but not at the expense of HPR dates.

Lastly, it is to the members advantage financially to have the clubs race at HPR as much as possible. We (CAMA) have made commitments to keep the rates at HPR as close as possible to the rates at SCR when it closed in 2005 (which hadn't increased since about 2002) and our financial models show that we can do this because our facility is being built on a relatively modest budget and the debt ratio is being kept very low with financial donations from the Club Members and the Clubs themselves. This means the rates at HPR will be more than 50% lower than the "market rate" for other equivalent facilities such as MMP, MPH, Heartland Park, Topeka, Mid-America, and so on. I do not know what the rates at Genoa will be, or if they have even been set yet, their site only says that they will "offer competitive market rates".

[dave.gallant]

This means the rates at HPR will be more than 50% lower than the "market rate" for other equivalent facilities such as MMP, MPH, Heartland Park, Topeka, Mid-America, and so on.

This is some good information!

Quick questions though: Does this mean that the operating costs for a HPR weekend will be substantially lower for the MRA, and thus, a decrease in the entry fee could be possible?

[Coop]

Just looked like a great track for motorcycle racing.....

It seems a shame if Genoa goes thru for next year the MRA doesn't get at least one weekend there. Sure would be a lot closer than Hastings and might bring some more people out for bigger grids....

[hcr25]

Maybe the people at Genoa Motorsports Park will Post up and give us an update :?

[The GECCO]

This means the rates at HPR will be more than 50% lower than the "market rate" for other equivalent facilities such as MMP, MPH, Heartland Park, Topeka, Mid-America, and so on.

This is some good information!

Quick questions though: Does this mean that the operating costs for a HPR weekend will be substantially lower for the MRA, and thus, a decrease in the entry fee could be possible?

Not really, in fact I can't promise there won't be another increase soon, possibly in 09. Remember that the fees you are paying now are based on the rates we were paying at CDR, La Junta, SCR, and are paying now at PMI. All those were in roughly the same ballpark, but are nowhere near what the market rates are for the facilites I mentioned above. It costs the club roughly twice as much per day to rent MPH as it does PMI, then when you add in all the additional costs associated with taking the club out of state you arrive at the conclusion that the Pueblo races are subsidizing the Hastings races to some extent.

What I will say is that if HPR weren't happening and we had to depend on going to other "market rate" tracks more often you would probably see a rather significant increase in rates.

[genoamotorsports]

As has been noted above, there are a lot of things that go on behind the scenes and we try very hard not to put something on our website that is not signed and sealed. By doing it this way we run less risk of hopes, dreams, expectations that may be unrealistic in a particular time frame. That being said, the following will show up on our website some time this week.

First, as of this past Wednesday we have engaged Denver based BY Group (BYG - www.bygroup.com) to coordinate our construction, planning, state, and county permitting needs (their tag line is "Integrating architecture and construction"). We chose them after interviewing several firms and feel they will give us the logistical/construction integration we need. The folks at BYG have been on the property several times and are extremely excited to be a part of this.

Martyn Thake and Kyle Chism (the track design team - Motorsports Consulting) are very pleased with the selection of BYG since they will need to work closely with them to be certain the track they have designed is properly constructed. Martyn and Kyle are still responsible for all aspects of the track construction itself and BYG will coordinate the various construction phases. Both BYG and Martyn/Kyle will work together on the Master Plan layout to be certain areas such as the hot pits, paddocks, garages, condo/garages, etc work together properly.

Second, and in conjunction with BYG, we have also engaged JR Engineering out of Colorado Springs (http://westrian.com/jr/). Their first effort is to get the engineered survey completed. They expect to finish this in the next three to four weeks and will include aerial topography. JR Engineering was also involved in Pikes Peak International Raceway when it was built.

Also, we believe we are the only track in the region that is being designed for both FIA AND FIM Level 2 standards. This should indicate the extent we are going to to add a greater measure of safety for track users.

I would also suggest that since we have 20 weekends already spoken for, mostly by local groups, our rates are within reason.

As always, we are available for questions.

[froth]

So, let me get this straight. We may have TWO friggin' new tracks to friggin' ride on, making two tracks back from losing three!

Dr. Evil would say......Friggin' Awsome.
A. Powers would say, Yeah, Baby.
I say, neat!

Thank you very much for the update. Looking into the future (season after next), it's gonna be Awsome. New tracks, fun tracks, local tracks, and Hastings? :shock: WOW.

Glen, all the work behind the scenes is paying off, in more than one dividend.

I feel pretty good about setting some more money aside for our new track, and appreciate what's going on (although sometimes, I don't understand it all).

[stuntriders]

Based on the little that I know, and I do mean little, it seems VERY optimistic to plan on having Genoa open for 2008 when you are still going through the planning, state and county permitting processes.

I only say this because it seems that the permitting process is what has produced the most problems for our club.

Would it be possible for Genoa to elaborate on the cause for such an optimistic point of view?

First, as of this past Wednesday we have engaged Denver based BY Group (BYG - www.bygroup.com) to coordinate our construction, planning, state, and county permitting needs

Don't get me wrong, I would love to have a couple new tracks close to home! I just don't want to get my hopes up without knowing the facts.

[genoamotorsports]

Based on the little that I know, and I do mean little, it seems VERY optimistic to plan on having Genoa open for 2008 when you are still going through the planning, state and county permitting processes.

I only say this because it seems that the permitting process is what has produced the most problems for our club.

Would it be possible for Genoa to elaborate on the cause for such an optimistic point of view?

Don't get me wrong, I would love to have a couple new tracks close to home! I just don't want to get my hopes up without knowing the facts.

I guess I need to clarify the difference between zoning permits and construction permits. We have ALL our zoning permit issues done and completed. We are also "vested" in the permit - which means we have done something on the property itself that is required to build. BYG has already completed the construction programming and initial cost model. We have been working with them for quite a while so that we would have certain things already accomplished before we announced, this is typical for us as we want to be certain when we announce something.

Our website reference you quoted above is in regards to construction permits. For example the state gets involved when you move more than one acre of dirt, they also have to approve your water drainage plan. The county issues building permits for the actual construction of buildings. The only "permitting" we have to do going froward are the construction permits which anyone has to do to build anything - that's why the professionals are engaged who have been through these processes before.

I hope this helps and we appreciate the asking of questions to reduce rumors.

[stuntriders]

I guess I need to clarify the difference between zoning permits and construction permits. We have ALL our zoning permit issues done and completed.

That is really great news!

So I am just being curious again, but how does Genoa's financial situation look? I know that our club /club's (CAMA) are currently raising money to build our track. We have also been told that construction will not begin until we have enough to finsh the track. Will Genoa need to do something similar? What does your overall budget look like? Are you planning a MMP style facility or something a little smaller?

Thank you for answering our questions!

[genoamotorsports]

Based on the little that I know, and I do mean little, it seems VERY optimistic to plan on having Genoa open for 2008 when you are still going through the planning, state and county permitting processes.

I only say this because it seems that the permitting process is what has produced the most problems for our club.

Would it be possible for Genoa to elaborate on the cause for such an optimistic point of view?

Don't get me wrong, I would love to have a couple new tracks close to home! I just don't want to get my hopes up without knowing the facts.

I guess I need to clarify the difference between zoning permits and construction permits. We have ALL our zoning permit issues done and completed. We are also "vested" in the permit - which means we have done something on the property itself that is required to build. BYG has already completed the construction programming and initial cost model. We have been working with them for quite a while so that we would have certain things already accomplished before we announced, this is typical for us as we want to be certain when we announce something.

Our website reference you quoted above is in regards to construction permits. For example the state gets involved when you move more than one acre of dirt, they also have to approve your water drainage plan. The county issues building permits for the actual construction of buildings. The only "permitting" we have to do going froward are the construction permits which anyone has to do to build anything - that's why the professionals are engaged who have been through these processes before.

I hope this helps and we appreciate the asking of questions to reduce rumors.

We have made the clarification on our website referring to "building" permits.

[genoamotorsports]

I guess I need to clarify the difference between zoning permits and construction permits. We have ALL our zoning permit issues done and completed.

That is really great news!

So I am just being curious again, but how does Genoa's financial situation look? I know that our club /club's (CAMA) are currently raising money to build our track. We have also been told that construction will not begin until we have enough to finsh the track. Will Genoa need to do something similar? What does your overall budget look like? Are you planning a MMP style facility or something a little smaller?

Thank you for answering our questions!

First our project will be a quality facility but not to the grand scale of MMP right off the bat. Since we are private (unlike CAMA which is more public) we don't make public a lot of internal items such as financing or budget. That being said, soon we will be offering Memberships on our website that we will take deposits on and will be refundable up until a short period prior to opening (therefore we are saying we won't take your money until we are almost done with construction). Thus, if you commit to a Membership you will know the track is going to be completed before you have to pay most all the funds for the Membership. For your Membership fees you will have track time and use of the facilities (you will have to wait until we post the Membership information to see what kind of track time you will get - sorry, it's still at the lawyers)

[cakake]

Because HPR will be OWNED BY THE CLUBS our first financial obligation is to support our own track, to race there and insure it stays financially viable. Of course races will be scheduled at other venues, but not at the expense of HPR dates.

Lastly, it is to the members advantage financially to have the clubs race at HPR as much as possible.

<snip>

This means the rates at HPR will be more than 50% lower than the "market rate" for other equivalent facilities such as MMP, MPH, Heartland Park, Topeka, Mid-America, and so on.

This makes plenty of sense. If/when Genoa opens, will the MRA consider adding an event or trading a Pueblo or Hastings event for one at Genoa?


Eric
#73

[The GECCO]

**disclaimer - the more I read over what I've written below and in other posts the more I can see that it could appear that I have no interest in going to Genoa, or even seeing it succeed. Nothing could be further from the truth. I think it would be great to have this part of the country be a mecca for motorsports with multiple quality facilities and would love to have the MRA race at Genoa in the future. However, I, and this club, have a vested interest in supporting HPR first and foremost. I'm sure Kevin and the others at Genoa understand this, it's pretty simple business and certainly not anything personal.

Regarding scheduling an event there - anything's possible, but until it's open, or at least close to being open I don't see the point in holding a date open.

I figure that the best-case scenario is that, like CAMA, Genoa will start construction in the Spring and open in the Summer/Fall. Assuming we are successful with HPR, the second half of our 2008 schedule is already pretty full. If Genoa also became available we couldn't simply back out of Pueblo and MPH dates because we have to sign contracts and put down deposits to reserve the dates. Obviously I won't cancel an HPR date to go to Genoa.

Now, if the sh!t hits the fan at HPR and it won't be ready in '08 we can certainly look at Genoa, but because they have already committed a lot of their dates (and demand would certainly increase w/o HPR) the odds of getting a date that works would be slim.

By not reserving more dates at "sure thing" tracks like PMI, MPH, etc, and scheduling instead at HPR I am already gambling that HPR will be ready by next August, but I feel very confident that it will be. Gambling on two tracks in the same season just doesn't seem wise.

If I give up dates at PMI and/or MPH in order to also schedule at Genoa and neither HPR nor Genoa is ready in '08, we'd be screwed and end up with a season of about 4-5 races. Participation levels and revenues would suffer greatly, as they already have with the loss of the other Colorado tracks.

If, in addition to scheduling at the "sure thing" tracks, I were to schedule 3 dates at BOTH new tracks (to hedge my bets in case one or the other doesn't open in '08 ) and BOTH tracks open we would then be over committed. Our members simply can't run 13 events in a season. I remember the outcry when we ran 11 events back in 1999 or 2000.

In private, someone suggested that I reserve the same dates at both tracks and then we'd race at whichever one is open. If they both open, we'd simply race at HPR and bail on Genoa. To try and do something like that couldn't possibly be considered operating in good faith and isn't an option for me. Signing contracts for both tracks on the same dates would lead to all kinds of problems for the club and for me personally since such an act would not be covered by the indemnity the MRA Bylaws provide me.

This is definitely a situation where hindsight will be 20-20. Around next June it will be very clear what the "right" choice is/was. Unfortunately we simply cannot wait that long to set a schedule. The '08 schedule (which is posted in the announcements section and is final) is my best attempt at insuring that the MRA has a successful year.

[genoamotorsports]

I'm sure Kevin and the others at Genoa understand this, it's pretty simple business and certainly not anything personal.

yes we do.

In private, someone suggested that I reserve the same dates at both tracks and then we'd race at whichever one is open. If they both open, we'd simply race at HPR and bail on Genoa. To try and do something like that couldn't possibly be considered operating in good faith and isn't an option for me.

Thank you. Just not a good thing for anyone.

we do look forward to the times when MRA comes to Genoa to play. We realize that with the number of tracks that have closed over the past few years there is room for us and CAMA. We are two totally different style track designs and both should be enjoyed by all.

[cakake]

Thanks Glenn.

I was really just inquiring about whether we'd consider racing there in the future (2009), not necessarily next year. And as such, I didn't mean we'd cancel an event already planned/booked, but if we know Genoa will be open in 2009 we'd add another event or do one less event at PMI or MPH to accomodate Genoa.

Anyway, good to hear we're considering it.



Eric