450 Moto

[JHeller]

I'm sure that some of you have already seen pics or heard about the http://450moto.com spec series concept that Roland Sands and Gavin Trippe have come up with. This class will be racing in the WERA National Challenge series next year.

Would there be enough interest for this class to be included in the MRA in the next couple of years? It looks to be a fairly inexpensive way to get first time racers (and old time racers I'm sure) into road racing while emphasizing the skill side, rather than the dollar side of talent.

The discussion occasionally comes up about an entry level race class. It looks like this fills that niche nicely.

[Jon]

Jeff,
Yeah I saw them out at Laguna and they are really cool as was speaking with Gavin. Dave Gallant and myself among just a couple others are stoked for the kits to become available before we convert our own 450's into something like that. The exhaust is especially cool as it exits up through the tail section! Not sure about the rest of this club though as they all seem to graduate to 600's and some go really slow but hey if that's what it takes for them to see if they have Hayden capability so be it. Some of us seniors citizens could still have a blast and WERA west runs a great series as well, though with the new track..... can't wait.
I believe a reinstatement of the old Formula Colorado class is waiting in the wings!
Later,

[dave.gallant]

BTW: Looks like the WERA National spec class is going to require a certain year of bike and other "spec" type stuff like spec bodywork and the like.

That said, I have yet to see actual rules specifying the class. If that doesn't happen soon people are not going to have anything built before the first race.

[Clarkie]

Some of us seniors citizens could still have a blast

he's talking about you Dave :lol:

The only problem i have with the WERA concept is that they keep talking about bikes costing around 15K, shit my 07 GSXR1000 only cost that to get on the track and I can go way faster in a straight line than a 450 single 8)

cheap entry level racing is an SV, this spec class is more of a money earner for Roland than anything else, you cant show me where 15k goes into a 450 moto

[dave.gallant]

Some of us seniors citizens could still have a blast

he's talking about you Dave :lol:

The only problem i have with the WERA concept is that they keep talking about bikes costing around 15K, shit my 07 GSXR1000 only cost that to get on the track and I can go way faster in a straight line than a 450 single 8)

cheap entry level racing is an SV, this spec class is more of a money earner for Roland than anything else, you cant show me where 15k goes into a 450 moto

$8k for bike
$1k for shock
$1.5k for forks
$1k for wheels
$500 for pipe
$50 for assortment mains/needle jets
$800 for bodywork, paint
$100 for fairing stay
$300 for rearsets
$150 for clipons
$200 for chain/sprockets
$100 for brake lines

There is $13700 not including all the things I forgot, so ~$14k sounds about right?

I'll take a slightly-used GSXR and a pile of contingency $ thank you very much!

[Clarkie]

8K for a bike? the new CRF450R is only $7200, the KX450F $6999, 07 RMZ450 $6799, and YZ450F $7099, not that i have been looking or anything :wink:

[dave.gallant]

8K for a bike? the new CRF450R is only $7200, the KX450F $6999, 07 RMZ450 $6799, and YZ450F $7099, not that i have been looking or anything :wink:

$7200 * .086 sales tax (using Thornton as an example) = $7819.20 before "setup" and other crap dealer "processing" charges.

So, for an average person who gets an average deal who is getting a Honda (which is what every dirtbike should be as good as), ~$8k is about right.


( I can't ride, but I can multiply! )

[Clarkie]

see when you are an illegal Australian like me you dont pay sales tax, you dont add real good either :lol:

[JWinter]

Guys, I invested $14,000 in my 125/450 conversion, but that was a new 125 rolling chassis, new complete crf 450x dirtbike, and bare bones fab costs. If I had bought used parts I could have saved maybe 4 grand.

I am also considering building one of the wera versions, I think I can buy a used crf 450 x for $4,000. I bet a person can buy a used WR 450 even cheaper. Wheels and suspension I guesstimate around 2 grand, 250 GP fairings at $500-$600, fairing brackets and foot controls between $200-$400, I assume the tank cover around $500. Plus the dirtbike parts are worth something to somebody! I think a person could build one for even less than I came up with depending on what you got in the garage. The only thing I don't have a cost on is triple clamps! If they need to be made what do they cost? Anyone know?

If Roland Sands Is going to charge 5 grand or more for his conversion, well he is high on something.

The upfront cost of a super single is going to be a little higher than an SV, but look at how competitive Tony and Chuck were against the SV's.
I spent $3,000 this season to campaign my single. Look at the lap times some of the USGPRU riders have done. These little bikes are faster than most people think. I don't care how fast 1000's are, I can't afford to race one. As long as I can dice with a couple guys and have fun, hell yeah!!!

And the Colorado class isn't dead yet. It has not been voted out yet. It just hasn't had enough entrants to run. Me, Tony, and Chuck don't make a grid!!

[dave.gallant]

Part of the problem is the balancing act between a real spec class and keeping costs down.

The point of a spec class from a racer's point of view is to showcase talent, however that is not what the OEMs want out of it and they want to sell new bikes.

I am waiting to see how things shake out in the rules for the WERA National series before making my opinion on how successful the class could be. It could be extremely successful if used/older bikes could be run and/or a way to limit the initial investment is made. But, if they make it 2006/7 or newer I don't expect to see very full grids in the first year which will simply fuel the critics who say "no one wants to race small displacement equally matched bikes".

[JHeller]

The MRA wouldn't have to adhere to WERA's rules. You could make the rules so that any year 4T 450 is eligible to race. This would possibly bring some folks "off the fence", especially people who already have a 450 dirtbike and want to roadrace.

With the exception of bodywork and the rear shock, I think you could do this for fairly cheap by finding some good deals on ebay. The initial cost may be a little higher than buying a used racebike, but definitely less than 15k. Cost savings on tires, pump gas and crash replacement should be a lot less than any other race bike, even a "Ladies Sports Cruiser" (SV).

I'm considering buying my buddies '05 WR and building one of these, making it barely street legal, just to terrorize around on in town.

[dave.gallant]

Agreed.

But, if a racer was adhere to their rules, they could run at Miller with a WERA National race (which would be a complete hoot!).

And, there is a much better chance of the MRA scoring some manufacturer contingency in the class if we were along the "standard" rules.

The absolute worst thing that could happen is that everyone builds some cheap bikes, learn what real corner speed is all about, and fill the Formula Colorado grid!

[nobasin]

13k+ seems to miss the point if part of it is attracting (new) racers to an entry level class. seems more practical to do what i and countless others do/did...get a used already setup bike for around 3k (alex k's '01 f4i that i learned on this year) get a canopy, generator, warmers and good leathers and gear and go race for between 5-6k, all gear included. and like all the vets say, spent my money on tires and gear.

don't forget the costs of campaigning over a 9-10 race season. that means probably over 20k minimum for your first year to get rolling on one of these bikes. that's a lot of cake.

a properly set up used 600 is a great bike to learn on...and cheap, relatively speaking...which should be a part of the equation i think to attract more racers. especially those on the fence guys.

[dave.gallant]

While the cost of entry may not be much different, the cost of "competitiveness" is much different at the 600SS ranks.

What you may spend on an entire bike some of the front runners are putting into their motors, and it is a real possibility guys are spending at least as much if not more on RORU bikes now than ROR0 bikes.

So, what spec classes are (should be?) attempting to address for the racer is taking the equipment variable out of the competitiveness equation.

Yes, a 600 is a good way to start racing. But, if you want to see how good you are as a racer, it is a waste of time to enter an AMA 600SS event with the budget most of us operate on.

[nobasin]

ok, with that explination i understand from the standpoint of equalizing the gear. now i understand what a spec class means, or is trying to accomplish.

then again, what 12pointracing was doing with his...just raising a little hell is as good a purpose as any. :-)

"I'm considering buying my buddies '05 WR and building one of these, making it barely street legal, just to terrorize around on in town."

[chris nami]

just go buy a used supermoto and slap some plastic on it $4,500 tops. then you will only need about two sets of tires all year...can you say cheep entry level class?...can you say colorado class? -C

[Scored51]

just go buy a used supermoto and slap some plastic on it $4,500 tops. then you will only need about two sets of tires all year...can you say cheep entry level class?...can you say colorado class? -C

Why even bother with the plastics as that would be an additional $1K by the time you've finished with custom brackets and paint. (i.e. Chuck Shetsline)

I'll bet ya'll didn't know that Colorado Class also includes the EX500, GS500, Hawk GT, and any other twin (liquid cooled) up to 600cc with 4 valves per cylinder as well as twins (liquid cooled) up to 700cc with 3 valves per cylinder. How much cheaper can you get than those bikes? The reality check is that the MRA already has a REALLY cheap class of racing, but not enough of us are slapping down entry fees to fill the grid.

[chris nami]

a-men to that. my point but even better. -C