Heavyweight change discussion

[nobasin]

I think we both agree that HWEND is a repeat of MWEND - same bikes, same riders, etc. Since MWEND got so popular and fast, we had to break it out from the LW classes (to keep them from being mowed down), create 3 endurance events, and shorten the races to 20 minutes. I'm proposing going back to 30 min races and having MWEND run with OPENEND as they do in RoR.

I mostly agree that HW endurance is somewhat a repeat of MWEND, but in the past there has been much more of a distinction and far fewer people running both races. This year had a lot of people running both when for the last 10 years there were like 4-6 of us at most who did both and they were definitely different grids. Both classes are bigger and faster grids this year for sure. But I think if we look back at the previous years before LW got broken out into its own separate race, there were many many rounds where both endurance races became 20 minutes either because of the weather or more often because of earlier races with multiple red flags. Adding LW endurance as a separate race hasn't made it any worse than previous years where circumstances dictated they had to be 20 minute races. Superstreet has also impacted those decisions as well. I do think though most endurance racers would always prefer all endurance classes go the full 30 minutes. (Except maybe when its a million fucking degrees down in Pueblo)

Financially, we could run the numbers but my guess is that HWEND is at best a 2nd entry, if not a 3rd.

That may be true but I would argue every dollar counts for this club, and any budget surplusses that can get carried over to the next year are critical for keeping the club solvent.

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about *ALL* Supersport and Superbike classes becoming amateur, just redesignating HWSS and HWSB. MWSS and MWSB remain expert. I'm suggesting only HWSS & HWSB become Middleweight Amateur SS & SB for the reasons I stated.

Ok, thanks for the clarification, but then HWSS and HWSB basically become AMUHWSS and AMUHWSB so you may open the opportunity up to more novices in those classes but at the expense of losing expert racers who have earned the right to race in expert only classes. That could be a valuable tradeoff for some racers, but not others. I would guess a lot of the experts racing HWSS/SB would opt out of that class if novices were let in. I generally don't race HWSS so I don't have a dog in this fight so to speak after your clarification, but I would feel this way if I do choose to race it.

[Jim Brewer]

I would guess a lot of the experts racing HWSS/SB would opt out of that class if novices were let in.

I'm curious why you say that. I don't know of any experts that don't race the endurance races because novices are let in there.

I generally don't race HWSS so I don't have a dog in this fight so to speak after your clarification, but I would feel this way if I do choose to race it.

Same here - I'm illegal for HW classes, but I'm offering up this suggestion as other riders have approached me as a Rider Rep about it.

[nobasin]

I'm curious why you say that. I don't know of any experts that don't race the endurance races because novices are let in there.

I have definitely heard experts say they avoid endurance maybe not specifically because of novices, but because of the overall traffic and speed differences, which is certainly partly because of novice racers in there, but I will say there are always a few novices smoking some of the experts so it isn't entirely because of that. But a lot of experts do race endurance even as an AM class and I think that's because endurance has always been an amateur class and so there's always been the expectation of novices in there. Supersport/Superbike has always been an expert only class and because of that they have always attracted some of the fastest racers in the club. I think changing HW Supersport/Superbike to AM status after decades as expert only classes would make a lot of experts think twice about entering it mostly because in a lot of experts eyes it would diminish the status of the class as one of the premier classes, similar to how ROR is viewed. Eh, I could be completely wrong on all fronts since nobody else seems to be interested in chiming in, which may be a first in the forums. :-)