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Thread: Rule Change DISCUSSION Thread

  1. #1
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    Rule Change DISCUSSION Thread

    This is starting a new thread to discuss/debate the proposed rule changes, not propose new rules, as that discussion is closed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim 'smooth' Brewer View Post
    Something like this was suggested in 2013 ..

    Redesignate
    Heavyweight Supersport to be Middleweight Amateur Supersport
    Heavyweight Superbike to be Middleweight Amateur Superbike
    Remove Heavyweight Endurance


    Specifically
    2.2.3.A - Middleweight Supersport rules stay the same
    2.2.3.B - section is removed
    2.3.2.1 - Middleweight Superbike rules stay the same
    2.3.2.2 - section is removed
    2.7.A - remove "Heavyweight"
    4.2.A - Amateur definition (RoR restriction) is applied to Middleweight Amateur Supersport and Middleweight Amateur Superbike classes.

    Reasoning -

    • There hasn't been and are no "heavyweight only" bikes in the MRA (except for Cindy's) so the classes are duplicates of Middleweight.
    • There are enough entries in the heavyweight races to warrant keeping them
    • Designating these classes as "middleweight" is just acknowledging reality
    • Making them amateur classes will expand trophy and contingency opportunities


    Historical discussion can be found at http://forums.mra-racing.org/showthr...cussion-thread
    Jim, why you want to take away HWEND? I know there are no, or almost no HW bikes anymore, but given that our race day still generally gets done with all races completed, and that it runs with OPENEND, it doesn't add any time to the race day and just gives another opportunity for middleweights to 'race up' and do another endurance race, as well as add additional $$$ to weekend revenue for the MRA. Given the usual tightness of the MRA budget, I am not for removing any class altogether as it just removes revenue from the club. There are a lot more people now who are doing both MWEND and HWEND and I think a lot of people (me included) would be disappointed to see this class go away.

    I also would like to see Supersport and Superbike stay expert only classes and not changed to amateur designation. I think a lot of experts race these classes partly because they are expert only and are typically some of the faster classes in the club and making them novice eligible would I think discourage participation by some experts. AMO and AMU exist for exactly this purpose and have historically served both racer designations quite well for a long time.

    Quote Originally Posted by gary3000 View Post
    Formula 40 Rule Change

    From 2019 rule book (page 17):

    8. Formula 40 GTU
    -- Based on Race of the Rockies GTU class displacement and
    configuration limits as per 2.4.1.6
    -- Racer must be 40 years of age or older on the day of the event.
    9. Formula 40 GTO
    -- Unlimited displacement and origin.
    -- Racer must be 40 years of age or older on the day of the event.


    Proposed 2020 rule change:

    8. Formula 40 GTU
    -- Based on Race of the Rockies GTU class displacement and
    configuration limits as per 2.4.1.6
    -- Racer must be 40 years of age or older on the day of the event.
    -- Racer in the top 5 of point standings in RORO or RORU is ineligible for the event.
    9. Formula 40 GTO
    -- Unlimited displacement and origin.
    -- Racer must be 40 years of age or older on the day of the event.
    -- Racer in the top 5 of point standings in RORO or RORU is ineligible for the event.



    Rationale: Formula 40 was structured in the past to limit participation by racers competing in ROR. The reasoning is/was probably similar to the rules governing Amateur GTU and GTO.
    I don't want to see this change for F40 and it has been discussed at length in previous years. If you race ROR and you want to race F40, so be it, let 'em race. I believe most of the other clubs nationally do not restrict who can enter their F40 classes, you just have to be old, that's it. It only makes the class faster and more competitive and makes everybody work harder for a podium, which to me is the whole point of racing. I've never liked the idea of 'dumbing' down a class just to slow it down so more people have an opportunity for a trophy. If F40 feels too fast for a racer, there are plenty of other classes to enter where the level of competition will not have ROR racers in it. Leave it as is.

  2. #2
    Let's focus this thread on F40 and do the Heavyweight discussion over here ..
    http://forums.mra-racing.org/showthr...ll=1#post80690

    Quote Originally Posted by nobasin View Post
    I don't want to see this change for F40 and it has been discussed at length in previous years.
    F40 was originally conceived as an amateur class. It was changed sometime around 2013 and I think it's time to review that decision since I really think it's just the Saturday version of RoR (minus Sean & Otis).

    Quote Originally Posted by nobasin View Post
    If you race ROR and you want to race F40, so be it, let 'em race. I believe most of the other clubs nationally do not restrict who can enter their F40 classes, you just have to be old, that's it.
    True. AFM has an F50 class.
    Quote Originally Posted by nobasin View Post
    It only makes the class faster and more competitive and makes everybody work harder for a podium, which to me is the whole point of racing. I've never liked the idea of 'dumbing' down a class just to slow it down so more people have an opportunity for a trophy. If F40 feels too fast for a racer, there are plenty of other classes to enter where the level of competition will not have ROR racers in it. Leave it as is.
    Ok, faster doesn't mean more competitive. I think you know that.

    I see things differently than us "dumbing down" classes. We have novice classes, small bike classes, vintage classes, and supermoto. Those aren't to dumb things down, but to enable a broader variety of race abilities and bikes to be competitive in the club.

    As far as plenty of other classes, other than AmGTU what other middleweight or heavyweight classes are not dominated by RoR guys?
    Last edited by Jim 'smooth' Brewer; 1 Week Ago at 08:23 PM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim 'smooth' Brewer View Post
    F40 was originally conceived as an amateur class. It was changed sometime around 2013 and I think it's time to review that decision since I really think it's just the Saturday version of RoR (minus Sean & Otis).
    Nothing wrong with reviewing it, but I have not heard a lot of people complaining about ROR racers in the class, and I don't have an issue with it being 'Saturday ROR' for 40 year olds. I think ROR racers should have the right to enter Sat expert classes and compete with each other or the rest of us in as many classes as possible. If you race ROR I think you have earned that right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim 'smooth' Brewer View Post
    Ok, faster doesn't mean more competitive. I think you know that.
    Ok, my wording could have been better there, maybe it doesn't make the class more competitive, but racing against the fastest people in the club makes you work harder and try to be more competitive as well as to see how you stack up. I don't mind getting 4th, 5th,6th or anything when I know its against the fastest racers in the club. But I do understand some people are in it for the trophys or plaques at the end of the year and that's ok too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim 'smooth' Brewer View Post
    I see things differently than us "dumbing down" classes. We have novice classes, small bike classes, vintage classes, and supermoto. Those aren't to dumb things down, but to enable a broader variety of race abilities and bikes to be competitive in the club.
    I could have used a different phrase to not sound negative (which was not my intention at all) but figuratively speaking. But F40 by its nature of having a lot of experienced racers who've been at it for a long time, makes it a fast class. If we don't let ROR racers in it, then it just becomes AMU/AMO for 40 years olds which there may be nothing wrong with that, but I like F40 as a tough class to podium in. You do have to work for it if you want to be there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim 'smooth' Brewer View Post
    As far as plenty of other classes, other than AmGTU what other middleweight or heavyweight classes are not dominated by RoR guys?
    I don't feel like F40 or other expert classes like Middleweight/Heavyweight Supersport/Superbike are 'dominated' by ROR racers...yes there are some ROR racers who are usually at the top, but over time and with experience if you stick with it, almost everybody has an opportunity to get to that level if you put the time and effort into it. Again, I don't mind racing in fast classes where I have to be at my best for any chance of a top 5.

  4. #4
    Great discussion, Mike and you know I (and probably everyone else) value your input.

    I posted this F40 suggestion & the HW suggestions for 2 reasons:

    1. As a Rider Rep, other riders have approached me about these changes
    2. I thought about them and I think they fit into the MRA's purpose, which is

    Create fun, safe, affordable, competitive motorcycle roadracing opportunities in Colorado.

    Anyone else want to chime in?

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