View Poll Results: Would you like to race more at Pueblo or PPIR next year?

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  • I would like to race 2 times at Pueblo instead of 2 times at Pikes

    23 54.76%
  • I would like to race 2 times at Pikes instead of 2 times at Pubelo

    11 26.19%
  • I am indifferent because I dont' race at either of those tracks

    1 2.38%
  • Other: Please post reply with what your other is

    7 16.67%
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Thread: Racing at Pueblo

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by polar x
    I am talking about Pit lane...if we tried before it may have been before my time. I still think it could be done. Neck it down with cones from T9 to a super slow, damn near single file nasty tight right hander on the far left of the track, so that you are straight up and down entering pit lane. ALWAYS under a standing yellow, NO PASSING after T9 just prior to entering the T10Pit turn and then once in front of the grand stands you could pass and then game on once your on the big part of the track again. Beats donating to PMP or the club if we cancel for weather, and just like PPIR and HPR, you have a choice to race or not race. But atleast its a choice.....something we dont have right now at PMP. This club seems (to me) adverse to racing in the rain...no matter where we are. I love the rain races. Would be nice to have another track to run wet...even if it means being throttled back for 2 turns.

    Just a thought.. :wink:
    Gotcha. Not sure how it'd work with a grid of 30-40 novices going through, but that's what it would have to be. I love rain racing too and the MRA does seem risk adverse in that area, though some of that is just that we don't do it at PMP so those events are always stopped until dryness returns. A concern with this pit lane approach though is the runoff as well -- if you blow "Pit 10" and go straight, you end up on the drag area before too long. So much as touching the brakes on that stuff when wet will guarantee you hit the ground.
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  2. #52
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    Chris / Ralph

    We did run the "Pit Lane" option once in 2006 during the Vanmar Sponsored 4 hour endurance race we tried to run at Pueblo that year. It didn't go all that well. First rain, then lightning touching down about 100 yards off of T9 - it was pretty ugly.

    I really don't mind racing in the rain - it makes my leathers stinky (not that they weren't already) and the bike is a pain to clean up, but I tend to do well in rain races, so I don't mind them so much.

    That being said, pit lane at PMP isn't really a viable option for a race course. The lane is far too narrow for any kind of wheel to wheel racing (a stop and go with one bike is another thing) and there are a fair number of hard objects very close to what would be the race course.

    It is my hope that someday they make a correction to the road course to completely avoid the burnout area of the dragstrip, but until that happens I don't think that racing in the rain at PMP is really a viable option.
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  3. #53
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    From T9 to T10 is really wide, so would a chicane (right, left than right onto the main straight, but quite close to the actual T10 corner/tower) be possible? It would make the 'new' T10 a 1st gear corner where the motorbike speed when leaned over would be a lot slower, yeah the bikes could/would spin up through the drag strip but the bikes would be upright and the speed lower. Maybe a little narrow and very one line but wider than pit lane.

    Just for the rain situation and it could be created with cones.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by T Baggins

    And based on feedback from riders, we'll probably split the 4 races at HPR so that two are "full course" and two are "north course". This is essentially like having two completely different tracks - but in one place. Second Creek was that way - we ran it backwards on alternating events.
    So is the "north course" what we did in round 1? (bypassing turns 4-8 ) Or would that be skipping turns 9-12?

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  5. #55
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    We should have a north course or full course vote for sure... I liked the north course A LOT but wouldn't prefer it over the full course. Just my .02 cents
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  6. #56
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    PPIR is my least favorite track (now that La Junta is gone), but I do like a bit of variety. I really liked Pueblo's new surface, hopefully it stays nice. Being on a low HP bike I had no issues but then again it has been so long since I rode there that I didn't get up to speed until halfway through endurance, then it was red flagged :cry:
    I would like 2 PMI, 1 PPIR and the remainder @ HPR with at least 1 of those being N. course.
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by graphite675
    Quote Originally Posted by T Baggins

    And based on feedback from riders, we'll probably split the 4 races at HPR so that two are "full course" and two are "north course". This is essentially like having two completely different tracks - but in one place. Second Creek was that way - we ran it backwards on alternating events.
    So is the "north course" what we did in round 1? (bypassing turns 4-8 ) Or would that be skipping turns 9-12?

    .
    North is what we did at Round 1 - taking out 4-8.
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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by NossLou
    We should have a north course or full course vote for sure... I liked the north course A LOT but wouldn't prefer it over the full course. Just my .02 cents
    As shitty as Turn 8 was last time we were there, and based on the fact that several riders said they'd skip HPR if we made them run thru that pig trough again... we're gonna run the North Course. No need for a vote, imo.

    HPR may or may not be able to make meaningful repairs to it prior to our next event in August - and we'll run full course again then.

    Plus, if we have the ability to run it two ways - why shouldn't we?
    Tony Baker #21

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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by T Baggins
    North is what we did at Round 1 - taking out 4-8.
    Just my 2 cents but I would probably be one to skip those rounds that ran the north course. I really like turns 4-8. I don't see north course as being a "different" course. It just takes away and doesn't add anything.

    Again, just my opinion, I'm sure some like the shortened course. I'm just not one of them.

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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkie
    From T9 to T10 is really wide, so would a chicane (right, left than right onto the main straight, but quite close to the actual T10 corner/tower) be possible? It would make the 'new' T10 a 1st gear corner where the motorbike speed when leaned over would be a lot slower, yeah the bikes could/would spin up through the drag strip but the bikes would be upright and the speed lower. Maybe a little narrow and very one line but wider than pit lane.

    Just for the rain situation and it could be created with cones.
    Wouldn't matter actually. You can be absolutely vertical, and as soon as you crack the throttle and put torque down on wet traction compound you will be on your ass. Several of us watched Applesauce highside a stock SV650 trying that experiment years ago, straight up and down, and he slid all the way past the start/finish line. No traction is not an exaggeration -- I put my old truck out there and spun the rear tires until the speedo read 80mph and went about 3 feet forward.
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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by graphite675
    Quote Originally Posted by T Baggins
    North is what we did at Round 1 - taking out 4-8.
    Just my 2 cents but I would probably be one to skip those rounds that ran the north course. I really like turns 4-8. I don't see north course as being a "different" course. It just takes away and doesn't add anything.

    Again, just my opinion, I'm sure some like the shortened course. I'm just not one of them.

    .
    skip them because you only run 5 of 7 rounds anyway so you'll skip the ones you like the least... or skip them simply because you don't "prefer" that layout?

    we're pretty spoiled here in Colorado. Look at the guys around the country who have truly horrible tracks... I guess they'd skip all the rounds too at the tracks they don't like if they could... but it's crap or nothing for them.
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  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by T Baggins
    skip them because you only run 5 of 7 rounds anyway so you'll skip the ones you like the least... or skip them simply because you don't "prefer" that layout?

    we're pretty spoiled here in Colorado. Look at the guys around the country who have truly horrible tracks... I guess they'd skip all the rounds too at the tracks they don't like if they could... but it's crap or nothing for them.
    I run what I can afford to run and what my job allows. I have mised the past 2 rounds and will probably miss the next because I am overseas supporting the Army.

    If I had unlimited cash and time I would run all of them but if my budget is tight or family and job takes priority, yes I would skip the short track races in favor of spending my money on the full track days.

    Yes we have nice tracks here (although very expensive) I was fortunate enough to come from another part of the country that had access to good tracks and was also much cheaper so I guess I have a little different perspective. Im sure many others have it much worse.

    Not trying to argue here, just disagree with saying the north course is "different". It's just shorter.

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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by graphite675
    Yes we have nice tracks here (although very expensive) I was fortunate enough to come from another part of the country that had access to good tracks and was also much cheaper so I guess I have a little different perspective. Im sure many others have it much worse.
    We used to have it cheaper. The days were non-staffed, disorganized, and a lot of people got hurt (and a couple got killed). Track days here now cost a bit more but you know someone is there watching your back, and someone is there to explain how the day works. These two things are vital and absolutely worth paying a bit more. Nobody is getting rich off track days out here and the cost you pay more or less covers the costs of putting it on (and sometimes not even then).

    I've also been to parts of the country where a typical track day like we have here costs twice as much, so we don't have it bad at all. Multiple tracks within an hour and a half of Denver, a solvent race club, open days you can go play ... really it's nothing to complain about.
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by graphite675
    Quote Originally Posted by T Baggins
    North is what we did at Round 1 - taking out 4-8.
    I don't see north course as being a "different" course. It just takes away and doesn't add anything.
    Not taking this as argumentative... appreciate the feedback.

    I find the North course to be quite different...

    Full bollox thru T4S instead of huge braking, then immediately back on the gas. Way faster thru 9 & 9a, then you actually have to brake a TON and downshift for T10 which is different. Layout favors guys who prefer high speed rather than tight turns... It's nice to let the bike run out on the ragged edge a bit.

    We also run more laps, so strategy changes.

    Not sure what it costs to put on a race where you used to race... but for us it's between $25K and $31K to host a race weekend.

    By "expensive" comparatively you mean? Expensive to do a lapping day, or expensive race entry fees? Just curious 'cause I think our entry fees are among the lowest in the country.
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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by rforsythe
    Multiple tracks within an hour and a half of Denver, a solvent race club, open days you can go play ... really it's nothing to complain about.
    While I don't have any true experience myself, I can only say from what I hear and know from others. But this is very accurate in my opinion. Mere moved down to Texas where he was going to race with the CRMA. Turned out he couldn't really race much at all because the closest track was about 3 hours and the rest were 5 to 12 hours away. He couldn't afford the travel expenses and time off. Where as we here have cheap travel expenses and being 2 hours or less makes it easier on the days off.
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  16. #66
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    I think pueblo did a very good job in general. The surface is good with plenty of grip. It looks like alot of time was spent on the run off areas. This is much improved from the past.

    The drag strip area was always slick and now it is worse but hopefully it will get better.

    In my personal opinion turn ten is probably now one of the most dangerous turns I have raced on in the past 17 years. It was bad before and it was made much worse. It is the type of danger that one would expect racing the Pikes Peak International Hill Climb. A huge Armco wall protection us from a light pole, 30ish feet of run off before a tire wall in front of a concrete wall if you go straight off from 9 to 10. Once you are into the turn you have polished concrete burnout boxes to navigate. If something goes wrong there you have about ten feet before the concrete wall.

    I think our club did the best they could to make it better. Airfence was deployed and we were cones away from the armco wall. I think a big reason we had so few crashes there was most of us were scared to push there. As speeds and confidence pick up bad things will happen there if changes are not made.

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  17. #67
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    HPR
    Obviously turn 8 had issues but I find it hard to believe that it is a valid reason for boycotting the race. It is a slow speed corner that you just had to alter your line through to miss the one big hole. Not ideal, but worth all of the fuss? I think there were actually a few records set last time out even with this turn...

    Tony, I wonder how many people won't show up based on the short course decision vs the number that claimed they wouldn't show if we did the full course. Might be worth a "vote" or at least discussion tonight?

    I know at the end of the first race most said they enjoyed the short course but not sure how many preferred it......it was better than the alternative that day for sure.

    Once was fun but arbitrarily deciding to do it again mid season......?

    I am there either way.

  18. #68
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    Crap..... I forgot the Gen MTG is tonight.
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  19. #69
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    FWIW, I loved the short course even though I was struggling getting the hang of the markers and my new bike. However that said, I am not sure if I would want 1 or 2 rounds of the short course.

    At first blush I would like to do one round short and 3 long. I love turn 7 and enjoy 5.
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  20. #70
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    Turn 10 PMP



    Best image I can find of it.
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  21. #71
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    This should be a Google Maps Overlay:

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  22. #72
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    Didn't every bike that slid out in turn 10 reach the a wall, air or otherwise?
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  23. #73
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    I see this as the only real solution to this turn. It would require more real estate for run off and some compromise for the wall for the drag racers.



    I understand the lack of money the city is facing and they did what they could with what they had. But if a design can be agreed upon by everyone racing this track, car, bikes, drag racers. Then this can be worked toward.
    Randall "Snowman" Turner
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  24. #74
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    We can't be that close to the Armco on the entrance. That point is the most dangerous spot on the track for a motorcycle (in my humble opinion).
    dave@MotoSix DOT com | MRA #31, WERA #311

  25. #75
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    Agreed... If I would have known that paving compactor was there, it would have mysteriously been put into reverse.
    Randall "Snowman" Turner
    MRA No.427 - Honda CBR600rr Fireblade

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