Just curious, how are we looking as far as numbers go for the weekend?
Just curious, how are we looking as far as numbers go for the weekend?
Our pre entry for this round was $17,835 with 97 riders
We are expecting $4k in walk-ups which would put us at about $22K in rider entries.
Gate entry should be around $2K due to better promotion and wrist bands
Garage rental prob will be $2800
Superstreet expected to be about $1100
Transponder Rental runs about $500 per weekend
Total event income expected = $28,400
Cost to put on the event last year was $29,035
MRA #29
Those are relatively low numbers for riders, right?
yeah very low...I remember just two years ago it was 120 or the weekend wasn't happening.... when I started 150+ was the norm.....
Lifetime novice.... #969
l ______
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That is very true but with some smart financial decisions and cutting back on a lot of expenses by your board these past couple seasons, we've been able to lower the final cost of our race weekends so that we are able to absorb a minimal loss due to a low turnout. We are committed to keeping the MRA a viable entity so that we can continue to race in the future.Originally Posted by NossLou
I remember when 200+ was the norm. Let's hope that we will see that again someday.
MRA #29
Agreed 100% you all have done one hell of a job to keep this club alive. Not exactly sure how you guys pull it off with numbers falling each year, and track expenses going up, but you do. I can't thank you all enough.That is very true but with some smart financial decisions and cutting back on a lot of expenses by your board these past couple seasons, we've been able to lower the final cost of our race weekends so that we are able to absorb a minimal loss due to a low turnout. We are committed to keeping the MRA a viable entity so that we can continue to race in the future.
I remember when 200+ was the norm. Let's hope that we will see that again someday.
Man I can not imagine seeing 200 plus bikes out there.... That would be down right awesome!
Lifetime novice.... #969
l ______
/l ,[____],
l---L -[]lllllll[]-
()_) ()_)----)_)
Um, no. Our highest rider count was 186 at the 2005 spring PPIR race. We ran out of transponders. The average that year was 155 per event.
No, I'm not Rainman, I just happen to remember because we were crunching a lot of numbers in 2006 after the closing of SCR, PPIR and CDR all in one season.
The GECCO
You begin your racing career with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
Yo rainman,
Was PPIR the highest count ever? If not want was the highest rider count at any track?
Jim is a lot like me... we both have a photogenic memory...
that is, we tend to remember things as better than they actually were. :lol:
Tony Baker #21
Sponsored by:
Vickery Motorsports, Short Bus Race Team, 406 Racing Michelin, Vortex, PitBull, Driven, Third Bridge Wines, Imodium A-D
Not to open up the floodgates here (again), but it sure would be nice to substitute one of our costly/financial loss rounds to fill in @ one of the MOM rounds at no cost. Could isolate our transponder #'s for MRA specific results.
Just saying, replacing Pikes w/ a multi-million dollar FIM standard facility sounds pretty good to me and in fact, it seems a shame that we as moto-racing fans and participants, don't take advantage of and support the track.
In return, MOM riders would be offered reciprocity and would only have to contribute race entry, which as a benefit would greatly increase attendance and income for one of our existing rounds.
The argument has always been, "we can't do it as a points round b/c people wouldn't be willing to drive the seven hours". Well, we raced Hastings and it worked and I know me and the group I race/pit with would certainly be willing to race Miller. Besides the core 97, it doesn't seem like people are willing to make the trip to Pikes anyway, so F em!
What am I missing here? Is this not a reasonable solution to omit a costly round and add to an already profitable round? It would take some serious planning and cooperation from both clubs (consolidating / adding classes into race day schedule, ROR, etc), but seems doable.
Maybe an idea for 2013? Then again, I'm sure it'll get shot down for one reason or another like it always does. Alas, I'll have to enjoy WSBK and the APEX track day following in a couple of weeks to get my Miller fix.
Rant complete, fire away -
Nothing wrong with being optimistic and thinking big for our club.Um, no. Our highest rider count was 186 at the 2005 spring PPIR race. We ran out of transponders. The average that year was 155 per event.
No, I'm not Rainman, I just happen to remember because we were crunching a lot of numbers in 2006 after the closing of SCR, PPIR and CDR all in one season.
MRA #29
^^ i would race at miller
#912
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You and me buddy. We're starting a revolution! :lol:
David-
There are several challenges with a combined Miller round and you've identified most of them, but I want to make clear that we've done that once before with terrible financial results.
1) Travel distance - you cite Hastings as a traveling race success, but it really wasn't. We stopped going there because we lost nearly $20,000 in ONE RACE WEEKEND the last time we went to Hastings. The sport is fragile enough in this economy - add $500 in travel expenses to the cost of a round and what we would have is even some of the core group dropping out.
This has a bigger problem associated with it, not in that they don't attend that specific round, but that they are then essentially out of the points and have an incentive to skip future rounds as well. Go 36 points down in a championship and there is little or no chance of recovery from that. So now we are in jeopardy of not just losing that core group for one round, but for any number of rounds that follow that round.
Please don't hear me wrong, I love racing at Miller, and I'm committed enough to the sport that I would probably travel to race almost anywhere, but statistics show that I'm in the minority.
The other problem is that for this to work their club would have to essentially commit to traveling to come race with us. The difference in available facilities alone makes that a challenge for a large number of their racers. Many do not own canopies, generators or the other accouterments required for the more open paddock like we have at our races.
It's not that we would substitute a financial loss race for one that comes at no cost, it's more that we change where that cost is incurred. The MRA may not have any cost associated with running the round, but the riders themselves would have to more than make up for that change in cost. Moving the MRA paddock to Miller (I took three total rider efforts with me in the spring and rented a garage) and it was nearly $1000 in travel costs. We encountered a fierce headwind that nearly doubled my usual fuel cost, so for the sake of argument lets say in round numbers it's $200 per rider to get to Miller (and I think that's light). This doesn't include lodging costs, extra food costs etc as many racers have those for the MRA rounds anyways, this is the ADDITIONAL travel cost required to race at a distance. The other thing this doesn't consider is the extra time that someone would have to take off of work to accommodate the additional travel hours.
200 * 100 riders = $20,000 - not too far off the total cost to the MRA for a local round.
I'm a big fan - I like the USBA and enjoy going racing with them. As such I try to get over there for at least 1 round a year. Requiring it to stay in the championship hunt at this point is just not a good economic decision for the MRA
Not to open up the floodgates here (again), but it sure would be nice to substitute one of our costly/financial loss rounds to fill in @ one of the MOM rounds at no cost. Could isolate our transponder #'s for MRA specific results.
Just saying, replacing Pikes w/ a multi-million dollar FIM standard facility sounds pretty good to me and in fact, it seems a shame that we as moto-racing fans and participants, don't take advantage of and support the track.
In return, MOM riders would be offered reciprocity and would only have to contribute race entry, which as a benefit would greatly increase attendance and income for one of our existing rounds.
The argument has always been, "we can't do it as a points round b/c people wouldn't be willing to drive the seven hours". Well, we raced Hastings and it worked and I know me and the group I race/pit with would certainly be willing to race Miller. Besides the core 97, it doesn't seem like people are willing to make the trip to Pikes anyway, so F em!
What am I missing here? Is this not a reasonable solution to omit a costly round and add to an already profitable round? It would take some serious planning and cooperation from both clubs (consolidating / adding classes into race day schedule, ROR, etc), but seems doable.
Maybe an idea for 2013? Then again, I'm sure it'll get shot down for one reason or another like it always does. Alas, I'll have to enjoy WSBK and the APEX track day following in a couple of weeks to get my Miller fix.
Rant complete, fire away -
MRA Expert #69
Sponsored by: Chicane Instruction
STM Suspension, Speedin' Motorsports
Northern Colorado Euro Motorcycles
Boulder Motorsports, Sol Performance Pirelli
Angry Marmot Motorsports
Sarah, Aaron and David
To the best of my knowledge that's the highest count since I've been involved with club (1999), there may have been counts higher than that before but the stories from most of the 'old timers' indicate otherwise.
During the years that AMA ran PPIR the MRA always ran there the weekend prior to the AMA event. It was usually our best attended event because:
1) It was early in the season and people hadn't raced themselves into the poorhouse or hospital yet
2) Typically a dozen or so AMA riders would show up
3) Riders wanted to see how their times stacked up against the pros
4) PPIR was run as a 'pro' track back then and track time there was very hard to come by. They didn't have open lapping like they do now
The GECCO
You begin your racing career with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
So worst case we would rather drop a round or rounds than try this? I was only comparing Hastings as it was a similar drive and in 08' I remember quite a good turnout.
In regards to racers eating the $20k, racing isn't cheap regardless. However, I don't see how lodging would be different as most either camp track side or get hotel as-is. Sure, transport would be a bit more, but some camaraderie amongst racers and shared rides could certainly cut down on that.
There is the argument that you lose racers due to points lost, but do we lose racers when they crash @ HPR, Pueblo and/or Pikes and don't get points that round?
Some would argue that we shouldn't go because it is too expensive. However, on the flip-side, some would argue that someone else's limited racing budget shouldn't dictate when and where the club races.
I feel like we're missing out on an amazing track and enjoy the traveling race experience. How about we don't include it in the overall points and make a one-weekend mini-series w/ same trophies and classes? Or, we could just do one race w/ a traveling trophy that goes to 1st, 2nd and 3rd each year. Or, combine our 4-hr endurance races for one big trophy/check.
Regardless, it doesn't seem like the club is open to the idea, so all this is irrelevant.
PS... I HATE Pikes, but suck it up and race anyway b/c I want the points and am a committed member of the MRA. I go where the club dictates that I go. Not sure why I have to go to Pikes, but others can't/won't do Miller. I also had a car cross the track in front of me @ Pueblo mid-race, but I still race there! Safety and track quality are more important to me than saving a couple hundred bucks on one race weekend. Not sure why others don't have the same opinion.
PSS... If your budget argument held cred we would/could/should just race bicycles together on the track as it is much cheaper and we could pull huge turnouts.
who's talking about dropping rounds?
our first priority, as the Board, is to ensure continued racing and financial success in COLORADO at our HOME tracks.
'08 the economy was good. '12 the economy is not - you can't take 2008 success and use it in a current argument.
If we nuked PPIR in favor of a travel date, that would take a ton of money out of the local economy (PPIR, western ambulance, paying our cornerworkers, insurance, gas stations, tire vendors, etc, etc, etc...)
We put our schedule out in October this year so that neighboring clubs would have an opportunity to work their schedule to best accommodate cross-over. In fact I think we were the first in the COUNTRY to announce our schedule...
Apparently they did not take advantage of that as well as might have been hoped.
If you want a one-weekend mini-series with no points, just choose a non-conflict date, load up your trucks and go. Those who want to join you will do so, and it will not obligate or otherwise alienate the members who don't want to (or simply can't).
Tony Baker #21
Sponsored by:
Vickery Motorsports, Short Bus Race Team, 406 Racing Michelin, Vortex, PitBull, Driven, Third Bridge Wines, Imodium A-D
I may be in the minority, but I like PPIR. Not only is it my favorite track but it is by far the most spectator friendly (beer garden helps) with the best infrastructure (the girlfriend likes the free WiFi). I wish we could race there more.
Joe
MRA # 157
2010 Ducati 1198S
2009 Indian Chief Roadmaster
2012 Ducati 796 Monster
2004 Ducati 749S
SW Scooternews, Sol Performance/Pirelli, Rudy Project, TYGA Performance, Boulder Motorsports, Woodcraft, Nitron Racing Shocks, Shorai
I Like PPIR as well. Great place to show your spectators and sponsors a world class racing experience.
Dennis Stowers MRA #151
2021-2023 MRA BoD Rider Representative - Rulebook
Absolute Moto-Michelin
Speedin' Motorsports
Ditto that, I don't think its the best track but I always have fun and you can't beat the atmosphere at PPIR.
As far as Miller goes, I would drive 8 hours to race there over driving to Hastings even if I lived across the street. However, I do understand that not everyone can get the necessary time off or whatever and there is a conflict of points so it makes it difficult to do as a club. That being said, our season ends early this year and their final race is October 6'th (full track). Its worth the drive and we should get as many riders as possible to go represent the MRA.
Pete Tabor
MRA #599
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Fun Center Cycles
Sol Performance
Speedin' Motorsports
I agree that its great we support our local businesses as Tony suggests and I also dont mind racing at PPIR, hell as long as I'm on my bike and I'm happy!
On the other hand, I hate to miss out on racing on a state of the art track like Miller... soo since my last day of work until mid Ausgust is next Fri, count me in for a road trip!!
I am considering the August West Course event 8/18/2011.
I am definitely planning on going to the October Full Course event 10/6/2011 after our season is over. We had a large group last year and had a great time. Let's get some shared rides put together in a couple months or so.
Dennis Stowers MRA #151
2021-2023 MRA BoD Rider Representative - Rulebook
Absolute Moto-Michelin
Speedin' Motorsports
I'd double check your dates before you make any travel plans.
April 21-22: Miller Motorsports Park West Course
May 19-20: Miller Motorsports Park Perimeter Course (In conjunction with WERA)
June 30-July 1: Miller Motorsports Park East Course
August 18-19: Miller Motorsports Park West Course
September 15-16: Miller Motorsports Park East Course
October 6-7: Miller Motorsports Park Full Course
Thanks David - you beat me to it.
I'm hoping to make the October round and bring a few folks with me!
MRA Expert #69
Sponsored by: Chicane Instruction
STM Suspension, Speedin' Motorsports
Northern Colorado Euro Motorcycles
Boulder Motorsports, Sol Performance Pirelli
Angry Marmot Motorsports
Sarah, Aaron and David
Maybe next season the 2 clubs can coordinate a weekend from each of their schedules and offer an good incentive($discount$) for racers of the other club to come out on that race weekend. Maybe get a larger group coming out, kind of formalize things so people all plan travel etc.. together for the same weekend and boost income for 1 round of each club. No points or championships involved, but allows both clubs to get extra entries and money they otherwise would not have seen. The racers get some pricing help to offset extra expenses of travelling and motivate them to give it a try. If it busts out participation wise - oh well, scrap it for the future.
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