Protest (me) Form for Download!

[JWinter]

Simple solution to the novice problem: No novice is allowed to collect contingency until they have completed their 4 hours of community service.
Sorry, I hate to be captain obvious with that statement.

or cut out contingency all together for Nov classes (which I don't recommend).


Jeff

[dave.gallant]

Or, how about this (you are all gonna hate this one):

Don't change anything from what we have now, except let non-ROR experts race in the Novice class (if they choose).

Contingency goes to those who can win it, and judging from the times novices would get some schooling from the-same-speed-riders-they-are-racing-now (just with different colored number plates). Moving up to expert would not be such a painful experience because, well heck, they are racing most of the same people anyways. This may help distribute the riders more evenly across the classes given the motivation that everyone wants to win a trophy and be competitive somewhere.

Side Note:

Some people may not feel like "experts", but by going by Tony's explanation of an expert, we would only have 3 experts in the whole club.

In my not-so-humble-opinion: If you can hold your line (not weave about like a weeble-wobble or dart for the apex), understand the race day procedure and flags in and out, and are within a reasonable speed delta of the front runners of the class, your sandbagging novice butt should be racing in the expert classes. Novice is a place to learn the trade; expert classes are where you hone your skill. (ROR is where you spend the wad.).

Mr Brown can speak better to this, but the fact that our new novices are going faster and crashing less means he (Brownie) is doing a spectacular job.

[glenngsxr]

Or.....
Get rid of all these funky definitions and break every one up by lap times. The top third are experts, middle third are amateurs, bottom third are novice. Grids would become proportionate and you always have some "like-speeded" people to race with.

[Teach]

Or.....
Get rid of all these funky definitions and break every one up by lap times. The top third are experts, middle third are amateurs, bottom third are novice. Grids would become proportionate and you always have some "like-speeded" people to race with.

I like this idea..

[sheispoison]

Or.....
Get rid of all these funky definitions and break every one up by lap times. The top third are experts, middle third are amateurs, bottom third are novice. Grids would become proportionate and you always have some "like-speeded" people to race with.

So, less classes and qualifying for all the classes... Hmmmm...

[LordLosh]

Or.....
Get rid of all these funky definitions and break every one up by lap times. The top third are experts, middle third are amateurs, bottom third are novice. Grids would become proportionate and you always have some "like-speeded" people to race with.

I vote this *10000. Everyone always says how fun it is when you are battling with some one just as fast or a little faster then you so.....
If its to hard to impliment We should do this as a race people could enter, and label it as such all the "Experts" biased on their times would go then amateurs would race then novices. no bikes limits or rules needed because everything comes down to your lap times anyways?

[T Baggins]

Is this not just Amateur GTO with a new name?

[jeff healy]

Pretty much but with qualifying

[T Baggins]

Does not the current system of gridding people by points pretty much "qualify them" - (with few exceptions of course...) - or more directly - put them on the track with riders of similar skill (regardless of bike type or modification)?

I'm all for solving the attrition problem, but simply renaming something isn't going to do it imo...

[JimWilson29]

Or.....
Get rid of all these funky definitions and break every one up by lap times. The top third are experts, middle third are amateurs, bottom third are novice. Grids would become proportionate and you always have some "like-speeded" people to race with.

What about those experts that are riding little bikes like 250's? This would make them novices.

[dave.gallant]

If we want qualifying and unlimited rules, there is an easier solution:

STOP RIDING NOVICE AND START RIDING ROR.

WTF people. :shock:

We have 5 MWSS bikes gridded up and 30,246 novice & amateur bikes gridded up. How can we spread the love? Are we really becoming the Novice Superbike club I was told we had become?

[rforsythe]

Or.....
Get rid of all these funky definitions and break every one up by lap times. The top third are experts, middle third are amateurs, bottom third are novice. Grids would become proportionate and you always have some "like-speeded" people to race with.

What about those experts that are riding little bikes like 250's? This would make them novices.

Or experts on bigger bikes having an off day. You gonna make them replate?

Being super speedy has never been a pass/fail criteria for white plates. If the goal is just to promote the quick novices in a timely manner than solve that for what it is, but don't tell experts that they're suddenly not cool enough to wear white after labor day or I guarantee the grids will shrink even more.

[jeff healy]

If we want qualifying and unlimited rules, there is an easier solution:

STOP RIDING NOVICE AND START RIDING ROR.

WTF people. :shock:

We have 5 MWSS bikes gridded up and 30,246 novice & amateur bikes gridded up. How can we spread the love? Are we really becoming the Novice Superbike club I was told we had become?

=D> =D> =D> :!:

[jeff healy]

And BTW guys I won money in my first ROR race last round and I'm slow as F*!k so just do it! Otherwise I'm gonna keep taking the free money!

[rybo]

I've had several updated thoughts to my original proposal regarding a "spec" 600 class.



I followed up on Aaron's suggestion that the catalytic converters in stock exhaust systems might cause a problem and confirmed with a couple of bodywork mfg's that they don't design their race bodywork to accommodate this part. As such I propose that a slip-on system (only) would be acceptable for the spec class - using stock headers only.


Furthermore I've considered Ralph's comment regarding the older bikes being at a significant disadvantage compared to the newer bikes.

First: If (and it's a big if) we can convince manufacturers to start paying significant contingency in the class we have a pipeline for newer bikes to enter the paddock. There are lots of people who used to buy a new bike every other season in order to stay competitive in the contingency running. Most of those people are hanging on to their bikes these days because there is no incentive to buy a new bike. This has dried up some of the bike stream for incoming racers, meaning that the crop of available used racebikes are older and older each season. This makes the barrier to entry for new riders higher as they either have to buy a bike and convert it or buy a bike that is thrashed and do significant work to get it up to speed.

Second: In order to allow more bikes in the class (at least initially) what if the rules allowed bikes that were "Modern Vintage" legal to also race in the class with "superbike" modifications, but they still had to use the spec tire? These bikes would likely not be eligible for contingency - but would add to the grid size and might make for an interesting race.


Scott

[Clarkie]

Scott I agree a slip-on would be an easy/cheap modification, would be easy to police and most bikes wouldnt require fueling changes (ie. Powercommander, Bazzaz, etc) to ensure the motor longevity. I think the 'being easy to police' part of this is important for the club/tech inspection to keep in mind. Ideas for new/different/more or less strict rules are great but they have to be realistic for the club to enforce and police, by this I mean the time involved and the financial cost to the club to police them.

[HAMMER]

you all need 250s and " learn to turn " spec racing is fuuuunnnnnnn

[Fastt Racing]

=D> Hammer

I've heard a lot of debates about how to get more people into any kind of racing. The answer is: Don't vote for communist presidents, and market our club to every person on the planet with 2 legs, 2 arms, 2 eyes (for safety, not to discriminate). Encourage everyone to have FUN! That's about all you can really do.

I would think that a few less expert classes would help to create larger more fun grids with other guys your speed to race against.

Spec racing is fun, and I would put some street tires on my wheels and yank the quickshifter, and go racing this weekend, and be competitive on my 2006 machine! My exhaust cat is up for debate on allowable mods with the slip on. I can't think of many other racers bikes that currently fit into these tight rules but they would appear over a short time.

I don't really think there is a problem with the Novice class! Maybe move up Top 5 instead of Top 10, and do some kind of points progression for the others to move a few more proficient novices into more races sooner IF THEY WANT TO MOVE UP.

EDIT: P.S. Bracket racing is for merry little fellas that don't have skills and like going in a straight line with throttle stop computers IMO.

[lars]

you all need 250s and " learn to turn " spec racing is fuuuunnnnnnn

^ I concur
http://denver.craigslist.org/mcy/3014900112.html
http://denver.craigslist.org/mcy/3013197374.html
http://denver.craigslist.org/mcy/2962943684.html

It is awesome^
it would be so fun having 20+ 2fiddy's out there

[The GECCO]

If you want bigger grids, have less classes. It's that simple. Stop creating niche classes. Instead, give more people incentive to come participate in the classes that are the core of every amateur club:

Lightweight SB/GP
Middleweight SS/SB
Open SS/SB
Twins
Endurance
Run-whatcha-brung premier class


As for the Novice/Expert issue, there are two solutions:

1) Have EVERY race run as first wave=experts and second wave=novices, or

2) Have a SINGLE novice class that is similar in nature to the Sportsman class of a few years ago. No points, no championship, early markout. Could be combined with or replaced by a SuperStreet type program.

What's the added incentive to participate? Fewer classes means:
- Larger grids which is more entertaining racing for both participant and spectator
- The race program is trimmed down enough such that it can be run in a single day and every weekend can be a double header. This means more racing for the participant each weekend AND less penalty for a crash/dnf as far as championships go. This means people won't quit after a single DNF puts them mathematically out of contention.

While the 250 'niche' class is a success in that the grids are decent size, did it really being in more members? Or did it cause existing members to add a 250 to their garage? And why is THAT the only class that gets run as a double header at each event? Would it be as popular if that weren't the case?

There are about eleventy-billion riders out there on either a 600cc or 1000cc inline-4. How many of them WOULD race if there was more bang for their buck in the form of more track time and more entertainment? Why not create a BETTER product for the masses, rather than chasing a miniscule part of the population by creating niche classes that take up too much time in the program.

I brought this general idea up a while back HERE but it didn't get much traction.

[sheispoison]

I've heard a lot of debates about how to get more people into any kind of racing. The answer is: Don't vote for communist presidents, ...

EDIT: P.S. Bracket racing is for gay dudes that don't have skills and like going in a straight line with throttle stop computers IMO.

Another way might also be to keep your political beliefs to and your blatent homophobia to yourself.

[loujr]

:shock:

[loujr]

Another way might also be to keep your political beliefs to and your blatent homophobia to yourself.

He can't help being "fabulous" :shock:

[nobasin]

=D>
I've heard a lot of debates about how to get more people into any kind of racing. The answer is: Don't vote for communist presidents, and
EDIT: P.S. Bracket racing is for gay dudes that don't have skills and like going in a straight line with throttle stop computers IMO.

yes, because nothing says "welcome to the club" like spouting conspiracy theories and a little gay bashing.

dennis, we hear your obvious cry for help. :-) it is normal to project your feelings of self loathing onto others and it must be incredibly difficult to be a communist homosexual when we live in a society where there are still people who are not accepting of other peoples political views or sexual orientation.

but i can tell you the mra is accepting of racers of all stripes and colors, so don't be ashamed. plus, i'm guessing you are the fastest gay communist in the club, so you should be proud of who you are and the accomplishments you've achieved as a person, regardless of political affiliation or sexual orientation.

[rforsythe]

This was a good thread until the last 5 replies.