What kind of helmet are YOU using on the track?

[Pilot2]

Don't be too bashful to vote in the poll even if you don't want to post a message. However, if you have pearls of wisdom to share, how a helmet worked out in an accident, fitament, or you use a helmet not listed in the poll, etc., please share.

[The GECCO]

IMHO, the "best" helmet has more to do with how well it fits than the name on the side.

Not long ago one of the major cycle magazines did some extensive helmet tests and one of the best overall performers was a no-name cheapy from (I think) Target.

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

IMHO, the "best" helmet has more to do with how well it fits than the name on the side.
http://users.frii.com/jjb/emote/yeah_that.gif

[Pilot2]

IMHO, the "best" helmet has more to do with how well it fits than the name on the side.


You are no doubt correct; the secret is getting the good fit. A few years ago the Director of SNELL told me that in his opinion the most important safety factor of a helmet was comfort. If it is not comfortable, it will be placed on the shelf and something else worn. So getting a proper fit with a helmet that also, because of the helmet design, provides comfort, is probably two key ingredients needed.

So if we can get proper fit, comfort AND a helmet that reduces the impact on the brain--that is probably the most we could ever hope to achieve.

[cosp600rr]

shark

[Pilot2]

shark

Of the three Shark helmets, seen at http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/testhelmetlist?sharp-make=132&sharp-model=&sharp-type=2&sharp-rating=5&sharp-price-from=0&sharp-price-to=9999 that obtained the 5-star SMART safety rating, only one, the RSX model, got a VERY GOOD rating in the IMPACT ZONES HIGH SPEED tests for ALL impact zones on the helmet. With the other Shark helmets, you have to be prepared to get your bell rung harder with a side impact hit to the helmet. :shock: But still, all the rated Shark helmets got higher ratings than for any Arai helmet in production.

[Chadwick929]

Shark RSI for me, it's the only helmet I've found that fits my huge conehead perfectly.

[rybo]

shark

Of the three Shark helmets, seen at http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/testhelmetlist?sharp-make=132&sharp-model=&sharp-type=2&sharp-rating=5&sharp-price-from=0&sharp-price-to=9999 that obtained the 5-star SMART safety rating, only one, the RSX model, got a VERY GOOD rating in the IMPACT ZONES HIGH SPEED tests for ALL impact zones on the helmet. With the other Shark helmets, you have to be prepared to get your bell rung harder with a side impact hit to the helmet. :shock: But still, all the rated Shark helmets got higher ratings than for any Arai helmet in production.

I'm with JJB and Glenn on this one - just like most other things that involve "fit" you can't buy a helmet by the ratings. A properly fitted inexpensive helmet will protect you far better than the "top rated helmet" that doesn't fit quite right. On top of that, like Glenn said, one of the best rated helmets in one of the studies was also the cheapest helmet in the study.

I think of other things that have to fit right, to work right - Ski boots come to mind -- you could have the best "racing ski boot" out there, but if it doesn't fit, it's useless.

Rock climbing harness - again, if it doesn't fit, it really doesn't matter what the rating is.

This brings me to my question - you seem to have done a ton of research and have a bunch of the answers to the question you're asking, so what's your point with this thread?

-s

[Pilot2]

[quote=cosp600rr]shark

... This brings me to my question - you seem to have done a ton of research and have a bunch of the answers to the question you're asking, so what's your point with this thread? -s

I have done some research, but as Solomon observed, "the wise man takes counsel," which I take to mean that we can learn things from others. My having read about different helmet testing schemes does not negate actual experiences people have had. So the purpose of the thread is two-fold, to share some information I have learned and to learn from others. I don't sell helmets, I don't own stock in any helmet company and I am not welded to the fantasy notion that because a helmet costs a lot that this means it is the safest for a particular person.

At the risk of being flamed, I think we all have a little generic Harley Davision in our blood. Bling is important. Look at my helmet or my new exhaust or my new...that cost a big chunk of my earnings--doesn't it look cool to you?

There you have it, I hope that seems like a proper underpinning for my posting the thread.

[T Baggins]

Don't be too bashful to vote in the poll even if you don't want to post a message. However, if you have pearls of wisdom to share, how a helmet worked out in an accident, fitament, or you use a helmet not listed in the poll, etc., please share.

Pilot2 - looks like you've done some homework in this area.

As I'm going to go out and buy a new helmet here any time...

Would you share any info or links to testing that I might find useful?

I agree that fit is paramount, but it would be nice to make an informed choice based on BOTH ratings and fit (and price?).

I've only worn Arai and Shoei on the track. Don't have any experience with other brands, so my request for data is genuine.

[KFinn]

+1 to Tony,

I have had good luck with Sparx but am curious if there have been any mention of them in the reviews as I need to buy 2 more helmets to replace the crashed ones.

[Pilot2]

Pilot2 - looks like you've done some homework in this area. As I'm going to go out and buy a new helmet here any time...Would you share any info or links to testing that I might find useful?
...

Having perused through the SHARP (Safety Helmet Assessment and Rating Program) which is a government backed, independent safety rating for motorcycle helmets, very few helmets make the 5-star standard. If you want to see an animation of how these government tests are done, take a look here: http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/content/animation

The one helmet that Arai had that met the 5-star standards above is no longer in production. Please do not misunderstand, I am not saying Arai helmets are bad, I am only suggesting that if everything else is equal, proper fit and it is comfortable, some other helmets may protect your head better.

As of today, 27-helmet models have the 5-star SMART safety rating, take a look at: http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/testhelmetlist?sharp-make=All&sharp-model=&sharp-type=2&sharp-rating=5&sharp-price-from=0&sharp-price-to=9999 Of those 27-helmets that are 5-star rated, only SIX of them were rated VERY GOOD in IMPACT ZONES-HIGH SPEED TEST RESULTS for ALL impact zones. Here are the six: Bell M4r, Bell M4R carbon, Bell M5X, HJC HQ1, Nitro Aikido, and Shark RSX.

One of those six helmets, the NITRO AKIDO, see:http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/testsratings/nitro-aikido is interesting if for no other reason its price point. This helmet has the standard ECE 22.05 certification and also the Auto-Cycle Union (ACU) Gold sticker. Somewhat ho-hum in appearance...

http://www.playwellbikers.co.uk/images/nitro%20aikido.jpg

Beyond it doing well in crash dispersing energy before it gets to your brain, it may be the most uncomfortable, unfitting helmet ever made. I have never actually seen one. Very little written about it. I just ordered one, quite inexpensive, and I will report its comfort level for my head...which ultimately will not mean much for its comfort level on your head.

A side-bar that will have experts with their fists up is which helmet evaluation system provides the most meaningful data? SNELL, ECE, SMART, DOT, etc. I don't pretend to know that answer, but personally I don't think it is SNELL for the following reasons: 1) SNELL has maintained that a thicker less flexible shell, heavier helmet, is best as it will withstand the brutal puncture type test they administer. On the other hand, SNELLs new 2010 testing standards reduced the impact load they had previously utilized--seems like they are getting closer to ECE or SMART. 2) The SMART test administers 32-impacts for each helmet rating, the others have less impact data. Ultimately, at the end of the day, a 5-star SMART helmet may result in your getting your bell-rung less than in a SNELL helmet if you get whacked. On the other hand, if you collide into a brutally sharp object, which I suspect is rare, the SNELL type helmet may do better. Take a look, however, at crashed helmets, the shell can get scratched and gouged-up, but rarely is there a complete breach of the outer shell, so why not have the shell flex a bit and absorb energy? That means less bell ringing for the brain.

So my 2-shillings on this subject is, find a helmet that has a top safety rating from the organization you choose to trust that is COMFORTABLE for YOUR head when it is PROPERLY fit. On the subject of getting properly fit, here is an interesting 2-minute video from Motorcycle Consumers News: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KytJa4i96v4

[lars]

Dont wear a helmet that you dont want to crash in:) but that goes for everypart of lining up on the grid:)

[Pilot2]

The Nitro Akido helmet arrived today. Having two Arai, two Scorpion and an HJC helmet currently sitting on the shelf and comparing them with the Nitro, I must admit to being very surprised at the quality of this helmet. Fitament seems good, very snug as you would expect for a new helmet--but not inappropriate at least for my oval head. The removal inside pieces appear to be of very nice quality and nice noise suppression design. This is a lot of helmet for the money.

Other posts I read regarding this helmet reported not being able to figure out where it was manufactured, the box has a tag answering that question. The helmet was designed in the UK, is marketed from the UK, and manufactured in China. My personal inspection of the quality coupled with it having the highest SMART rating overcomes any reservation regarding manufacturing location.

Apparently NITRO sponsors racers...see: http://www.nitrorider.com/racing.html

http://www.nitrorider.com/images/photobank/ash_beech.jpg

[Wayniac]

Fit is always most important. But ultimately it's your melon. Put what ever you want on it. I prefer Arai because they are still hand made. I like knowing that it has a human element to it. I'm skeptical of the mass produced stuff. Look at any Grid around the world, half of those riders will have an Arai.

[Pilot2]

Fit is always most important. But ultimately it's your melon. Put what ever you want on it. I prefer Arai because they are still hand made. I like knowing that it has a human element to it. I'm skeptical of the mass produced stuff. Look at any Grid around the world, half of those riders will have an Arai.

Fit is no doubt at the top of the list for helmet safety. And no doubt Arai and other popular helmets have saved many a rider. But in view of the test results, questions have arisen, should we live in the past with tradition or look at some of the newer designed helmets that appear from independent tests to offer us more protection? In those instances where the Arai or other popular brand did not provide quite enough protection, would one of the higher safety rated helmets have saved the person or...?

I suspect the sensors that test how much your bell-will-get-rung in an accident do not much care how much hand-making goes into a helmet.

The bottom line is still, "you pays your money and you takes your choice." If having what the majority on the grid have, then the selection process is easy--we don't need to be confused with any test data. ;-)

[Fastt Racing]

Fit is Paramount for the impact. Weight is also important for muscle and skeletal damage from your head swinging around in some tumbles (this is the #1 consideration in most SA rated auto sports helmets IMO). This is were a lighter Arai or Suomy may sacrifice a very small impact protection factor to achieve a lighter unit maybe? Another important impact feature is the efficiency of the energy absorbing foam and how it distributes the forces into the softer and harder spots in your skull, not just the impact resistance of the shell. Don't crash test your helmets and none of this will matter! When I researched the common serious injuries that motorcycle racers suffered in crashes, head trauma was WAY down the list, so look into other saftey gear as well.
P.S. The Arai Corsair V is the most noisey, hollow sounding helmet I have ever used (also the lightest). Good luck!

[Pilot2]

...Weight is also important for muscle and skeletal damage from your head swinging around in some tumbles (this is the #1 consideration in most SA rated auto sports helmets IMO). This is were a lighter Arai or Suomy may sacrifice a very small impact protection factor to achieve a lighter unit maybe?... !


Very good point, weight no doubt is a factor for both safety and comfort. In comparing the ARAI models that were tested with the six "other" helmets that received a higher 5-star safety rating and a "very good" rating in the high speed impact tests, only one helmet appeared to be clearly lighter, the BELL MR4 CARBON. And the good news is, its price point is about the same as Arai and should thus carry the same bragging rights. :-O

ARAI:
Astro 1.40 kg.
Chaser 1.50
Condor 1.55
Quantum 1.50
RX7 1.60
Corsair 1.35
Viper 1.40

BELL:
M4R 1.35
M4R CARBON 1.20
M5X 1.40

HJC HQ1 1.50

NITRO AKIDO 1.50

SHARK RSX 1.60 8)

[Wayniac]

Fit is always most important. But ultimately it's your melon. Put what ever you want on it. I prefer Arai because they are still hand made. I like knowing that it has a human element to it. I'm skeptical of the mass produced stuff. Look at any Grid around the world, half of those riders will have an Arai.

Fit is no doubt at the top of the list for helmet safety. And no doubt Arai and other popular helmets have saved many a rider. But in view of the test results, questions have arisen, should we live in the past with tradition or look at some of the newer designed helmets that appear from independent tests to offer us more protection? In those instances where the Arai or other popular brand did not provide quite enough protection, would one of the higher safety rated helmets have saved the person or...?

I suspect the sensors that test how much your bell-will-get-rung in an accident do not much care how much hand-making goes into a helmet.

The bottom line is still, "you pays your money and you takes your choice." If having what the majority on the grid have, then the selection process is easy--we don't need to be confused with any test data. ;-)

Alright I'll bite. What are these newer technologies? How do they provide more protection? I love the latest and greatest so fill me in. Lab testing is great, but I don't think it is always the right answer. Carbon fiber seemed to be all the rage a few years ago. But didn't lab testing and real world results prove that it is too rigid to make a good shell? I mean, helmets are still pretty much the same. Shell, foam, liner.

[Wayniac]

...Weight is also important for muscle and skeletal damage from your head swinging around in some tumbles (this is the #1 consideration in most SA rated auto sports helmets IMO). This is were a lighter Arai or Suomy may sacrifice a very small impact protection factor to achieve a lighter unit maybe?... !


Very good point, weight no doubt is a factor for both safety and comfort. In comparing the ARAI models that were tested with the six "other" helmets that received a higher 5-star safety rating and a "very good" rating in the high speed impact tests, only one helmet appeared to be clearly lighter, the BELL MR4 CARBON. And the good news is, its price point is about the same as Arai and should thus carry the same bragging rights. :-O

ARAI:
Astro 1.40 kg.
Chaser 1.50
Condor 1.55
Quantum 1.50
RX7 1.60
Corsair 1.35
Viper 1.40

BELL:
M4R 1.35
M4R CARBON 1.20
M5X 1.40

HJC HQ1 1.50

NITRO AKIDO 1.50

SHARK RSX 1.60 8)

Where do you get your stats? None of the above mentioned Arai helmets are current model year. I think 3 of those are over 4 years old. Most of those are Euro spec lids anyway.

[Pilot2]

,,,Where do you get your stats? None of the above mentioned Arai helmets are current model year. I think 3 of those are over 4 years old. Most of those are Euro spec lids anyway.

As noted earlier in the thread, the stats come from independent tests performed by the UK government. Of all the helmets tested, only 27-helmets received the 5-star safety rating, see:
http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/testhelmetlist?sharp-make=All&sharp-model=&sharp-type=2&sharp-rating=5&sharp-price-from=0&sharp-price-to=9999

As the tests were conducted in the UK, it is not surprising that Euro specs lids are listed. And then there a companies that play spec games. In the United States, it was popular to have a SNELL approved helmets--so Arai was one of many that jumped on that bandwagon. Unfortunately, that back-fired when it was learned that the heavier weight shells that SNELL required to pass its tests resulted in more impact energy being transmitted to the brain. Oops. When these facts were published, Arai withdrew it advertising from the publisher who spilled the beans. But then there was a miracle...SNELL suddenly changed its testing specification in 2010 calling for softer shells similar to those required for ECE lids. Go figure.

In the meantime, a few companies like BELL and upstart companies like NITRO put their noses to the grindstone and developed lids that result in less crash energy to the brain. If we want to ignore those companies that have built something better for us, that is the "pays your money and takes your choice" option. How do they do it? I have no idea and I suspect that information is rather proprietary to the companies that have figured out those improvements.

If someone is really worried about what the majority are doing on the grid--or what they may think of the lid you are wearing-- then buy an Arai sticker and place it on a safer helmet--so long as the helmet is fit properly. ;-)

[Wayniac]

You said you had a Nitro, well take it apart, see what makes it tick. Post some pictures of the interior. Inquiring minds want to know. I only want the best for my noggin.

[Pilot2]

You said you had a Nitro, well take it apart, see what makes it tick. Post some pictures of the interior. Inquiring minds want to know. I only want the best for my noggin.

Let us define "take it apart" ! If you are talking about photographing the inside and what it looks like with the liner removed, I can do that if I can get a camera flash to work in that confined space. I could do that in a week or so as my camera is on loan. If you are talking about trying to get the foam core (or whatever it is made of) out, well, that would be different as I am not willing to trash the helmet.

[Wayniac]

You said you had a Nitro, well take it apart, see what makes it tick. Post some pictures of the interior. Inquiring minds want to know. I only want the best for my noggin.

Let us define "take it apart" ! If you are talking about photographing the inside and what it looks like with the liner removed, I can do that if I can get a camera flash to work in that confined space. I could do that in a week or so as my camera is on loan. If you are talking about trying to get the foam core (or whatever it is made of) out, well, that would be different as I am not willing to trash the helmet.

Bust out the cutting wheel and slice that baby in half. I want to know what the shell is made of. A week to post some pictures of the inside? Come on... get out your cell and snap away. Flash lights are good at illuminating dark areas. :roll: Anyway, my helmet is aging. When I got it, I also tried on AGV. Oh man it was so cool looking, like something from an alien world. I was also impressed with the Suomy and Scorpion. In fact all of these helmets made the Arai look old. But I can change my visor sitting on my bike with my helmet on. It was easy to get smaller cheek pads. And the liner comes out nice and easy for washing and interior inspection. Now I don't know if AGV, Suomy and Scorpion have these same features because I didn't end up with one. But when new helmet time rolls around again I will be checking the competition. I'm still perplexed about the old Arais they tested. It looks like the RX7 and Quantum final years were 2008. Why would they test old out dated stuff against new stuff? I'm also curious how UK standards compare to DOT standards. By the way is this Nitro helmet available in the U.S. ?

[Pilot2]

Bust out the cutting wheel and slice that baby in half. I want to know what the shell is made of....

I like a person with a sense of humor. :) We will wait for you to buy one of these helmets so you can try out your cutting wheel.

My understanding is ostensibly all modern helmets are made out of a shell of expanded polystyrene foam and, in the case of the NITRO, the outer shell is made out of fiberglass. Expanded polystyrene foam comes in different densities and it would probably take an expert to determine what density foam(s) were utilized in a particular helmet. Perhaps the flexible fiberglass outer-shell helps absorb energy and assists in giving the helmet the highest SMART safety rating.

And in answer to your other question, the helmets are available in the U.S. See i.e. amazon.com where they sell for $60-120.00 depending on which ugly color you choose.

[Wayniac]

Wow, that is cheap. I figured it would be a little higher. I'm glad you appreciate some humor. I enjoy the debate. I was looking at it more and it seems to share some traits of the Scorpion. Mainly the visor pivot. I still can't believe how cheap the whole line is. I don't think one of them was over 250 US. Reviews on a whole were positive. Maybe we are all chumps for paying so much. But for the time being I'm sticking with the company that Mr. Hirotake Arai built. I like to think that some old timer there, that built Mick Doohan's helmet built mine. Maybe some of his magic will make its way to me and one day I could be world champion. 8)

[Pilot2]

... But for the time being I'm sticking with the company that Mr. Hirotake Arai built. I like to think that some old timer there, that built Mick Doohan's helmet built mine. Maybe some of his magic will make its way to me and one day I could be world champion. 8)

If you are on the USA side of the pond, why wouldn't you go with a helmet that was manufactured in the USA, is made by a company with a very long history of producing helmets worn by race winners and produces the lightest motorcycle helmet, by a significant margin, of the six that obtained the highest SMART ratings in every category, the Bell M4R carbon? I am sure one of the old-time Bell workers could pass some of his magic that could help you be a champion. On the other hand, more race experience and a faster machine would likely do a better job. :)

[Wayniac]

... But for the time being I'm sticking with the company that Mr. Hirotake Arai built. I like to think that some old timer there, that built Mick Doohan's helmet built mine. Maybe some of his magic will make its way to me and one day I could be world champion. 8)

If you are on the USA side of the pond, why wouldn't you go with a helmet that was manufactured in the USA, is made by a company with a very long history of producing helmets worn by race winners and produces the lightest motorcycle helmet, by a significant margin, of the six that obtained the highest SMART ratings in every category, the Bell M4R carbon? I am sure one of the old-time Bell workers could pass some of his magic that could help you be a champion. On the other hand, more race experience and a faster machine would likely do a better job. :)

Well the M4R carbon isn't a current US market helmet. At any rate Bell's top of the line helmet cost as much as my Arai. I'm not really into the carbon shell, too stiff. A friend of mine got a really bad concussion in a low speed get off on his dirt bike, he was sporting the HJC carbon.

[Pilot2]

Well the M4R carbon isn't a current US market helmet. At any rate Bell's top of the line helmet cost as much as my Arai. I'm not really into the carbon shell, too stiff. A friend of mine got a really bad concussion in a low speed get off on his dirt bike, he was sporting the HJC carbon.

You won't buy a helmet because it is not marketed in the US? Stop kidding us. Have it shipped to the US: http://www.grandprixlegends.com/motorcycle-gear/motorcycle-helmets/bell-helmets/Bell-M4R-helmet-OCB-carbon.html And you won't buy a BELL helmet that has a higher safety rating than an Arai because it would cost as much as an Arai. So you only want a better helmet if it is cheaper than your Arai. :shock: Again, you must be freaking kidding.

Regarding your friend that got a bad concussion in an HJC carbon helmet, perhaps it is no surprise because the HJC Carbon helmet did poorly in the SMART tests: see http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/testhelmetlist?sharp-make=112&sharp-model=FS-10+Carbon&sharp-type=All&sharp-rating=1&sharp-price-from=0&sharp-price-to=9999&discontinued=1

[rforsythe]

I've seen people get concussions in every kind of helmet out there, and ironically more in low speed crashes where the front is lost and the rider's head slams the ground sideways. Probably more HJC type stuff than others, but that may also just be because they're cost effective and people use them more often. The data is not conclusive. Point being, a concussion is usually not a life altering or ending event, which is what the helmet is designed to mitigate; they also happen regardless of manufacturer. That said, go with fit first and safety ratings second, cost a distant third. A safe helmet that doesn't fit will not help you, but you may have multiple helmets that fit well so go with the best one of the group.

[Pilot2]

... go with fit first and safety ratings second, cost a distant third. A safe helmet that doesn't fit will not help you, but you may have multiple helmets that fit well so go with the best one of the group.

Best summary:!:

[Wayniac]

Well the M4R carbon isn't a current US market helmet. At any rate Bell's top of the line helmet cost as much as my Arai. I'm not really into the carbon shell, too stiff. A friend of mine got a really bad concussion in a low speed get off on his dirt bike, he was sporting the HJC carbon.

You won't buy a helmet because it is not marketed in the US? Stop kidding us. Have it shipped to the US: http://www.grandprixlegends.com/motorcycle-gear/motorcycle-helmets/bell-helmets/Bell-M4R-helmet-OCB-carbon.html And you won't buy a BELL helmet that has a higher safety rating than an Arai because it would cost as much as an Arai. So you only want a better helmet if it is cheaper than your Arai. :shock: Again, you must be freaking kidding.

Regarding your friend that got a bad concussion in an HJC carbon helmet, perhaps it is no surprise because the HJC Carbon helmet did poorly in the SMART tests: see http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/testhelmetlist?sharp-make=112&sharp-model=FS-10+Carbon&sharp-type=All&sharp-rating=1&sharp-price-from=0&sharp-price-to=9999&discontinued=1

Well yeah. I'm not going to ship a helmet half way around the world to see if it fits. Regardless they both meet Snell requirements. So BFD. I checked out the SMART testing. Similar to DOT and Snell. Snell has more tests so I rate them higher. I don't really see your point anymore. You enlightened me to different testing. That "safer" helmets are available for cheaper or the same price. That a whole market of helmets outside the US exist. But I went with Arai because it fit perfectly and most importantly I like it. I've used them for the last 15 years and look forward to many more.

[rforsythe]

Anyone seen the Shark Race-R Pro yet? AFAIK it's not in the US market which I don't care about, but it makes things a little harder to evaluate up close. That said, my old Shark RSR/RSX/whatever that racer model is was freakin awesome in fit and quality. Also the Race-R Pro weighs in at 1250kg +/- 50g, which is stupid light and puts it in line with the M4 Carbon.