Round 6 - August 27-28 is a GO!

[rybo]

Greetings MRA members,

Over the weekend we managed to pull enough entries together to run round 6 at High Plains on the 27th and 28th of August. Racing is a GO!

That being said, unless there is a massive walk-up turnout, the MRA will suffer a large financial loss on the weekend. Due to the way that track rental and insurance works, even canceling a round costs the MRA a significant amount of money. At this point the loss we will sustain from running the event is roughly equal to the loss we would have if we canceled. Needless to say, this isn't good.

The MRA needs your support to continue the season. Please consider registering early for round 7 at PPIR and Round 8 at HPR.

The long range forecast is looking good for our race next weekend and we look forward to seeing all of you there.

If you have any questions please PM me

Have a great day

-Scott

[hcr25]

How many sign ups did we end up with? How much will the club lose if we do not get anymore sign ups day of the event?
Thanks mike

[T Baggins]

103 = $17,055 in total pre-entries

10 superstreet = $1000

Total confirmed revenue $18,055

Average cost to run an event at HPR = $31,300

Staring at a $13,245 loss as of now.

Average walk-up registration this year $5000 so if that continues, loss is down to $8245 but I'll bet it will be more like $4000 because riders are down and revenue per rider is also down - so $9245 loss expected for this weekend.

After outstanding expenses and final insurance payment that leaves about $12,000 -$15,000 in the bank with two events to go.

This is not even a little bit good.

[The GECCO]

This is not even a little bit good.
Understatement of the year... :(

So, just to try and head off some of the speculating, finger pointing, rumors, etc, that went around the last time that the MRA had to cancel races, there are a couple things I want to point out.

This club is NOT being poorly managed! I sat in Tony's seat for six years, and I can tell you that he has done a terrific job of finding more and more ways to cut costs without sacrificing the quality of the "product" that is being provided. I don't have the numbers at my fingertips, but I would guesstimate that, all things being equal, the current events are at least 10% "leaner" than they were prior to Tony taking the big chair. There are only so many ways to trim the fat, however.

The problem is on the revenue side. Times are tough and there simply are not enough people who are in a position to be able to afford to race. As Tony says below, right now there are 103 people signed up, at an average of $165.58 per rider. For comparison - and this is from memory but should be pretty accurate - in 2005 (the last year that we had Second Creek, Pueblo, PPIR, La Junta and CDR all at the the same time) the MRA had an AVERAGE of 155 entries per event, and the fees per rider were closer to $250. Simply put, today there are less people spending less money.

I'm not saying "shame on you members for not paying". I'm sure there is no lack of DESIRE to race, too many people just can't afford it today versus several years ago. Food for thought, as I'm sure some very tough decisions are going to have to be made over the winter. Don't shoot the messenger if changes have to be made.

[T Baggins]

Thanks Glenn, I appreciate the pre-emptive strike and vote of confidence... lol

Glenn is right, racer numbers are down AND revenue per rider is down.

Used to see an average of 140 to 150+ riders at $250 per rider in entry fees.

More recently (last year) it's been fewer than 140 at about $210 per rider.

Now we're seeing 110 - 140 riders at $175 each.

There's absolutely no way we can make up that sort of gap financially with the current pricing model and event structure.

I will give interested riders an opportunity to discuss this further after the races on Saturday night over a beer. There's too much info for a riders meeting... and we're there to RACE during the day!

As Glenn said we've cut a ton off of the operating expenses - we've actually cut 20% off of the operating budget over prior years. This is a savings of about $50,000 per year. Unfortunately that doesn't go very far when you lose $10k in a weekend. :(

[rforsythe]

How did it go from making decent money earlier in the season to possibly canceling events just to avoid going insolvent? Were there *that* many people experiencing financial hardship in the last few months, or is something else causing such a dramatic late-season decline in riders?

Or is this the standard late-season lull, and it's just more obvious because the steady contingent of riders is depleted?

[T Baggins]

Hey Ralph,

You've missed a meeting or two I guess. We've basically broke even on the season so far - we've not made "decent money" at any event yet in 2011.

Both the number of riders and revenue per rider are significantly down for this round... couldn't tell you why. And they have been declining all year (with the exception of the traveling racers for the 4 hour).

I suspect that people simply can't afford an 8 round series... so they quit when they run out of money.

We're NOT gonna let it get to the point where we're broke again. We will and must make sure there is money in the bank to ensure that the 2012 MRA Season can happen. That's our fiduciary responsibility.

[The GECCO]

How did it go from making decent money earlier in the season to possibly canceling events just to avoid going insolvent? Were there *that* many people experiencing financial hardship in the last few months, or is something else causing such a dramatic late-season decline in riders?

Or is this the standard late-season lull, and it's just more obvious because the steady contingent of riders is depleted?

Year-to-date the club is essentially at a net zero, plus or minus a few hundred dollars. Some events have made a little, other events have lost a little, and they have canceled each other out. What we're seeing is the standard, or slightly exaggerated, late season drop in entries. The problem is that in the past this drop meant that late season events merely generated less profit or broke even at worst. More recently, late season events look to be big monetary losers, and the early season events didn't build up a big cushion to be absorbed by these losses.

[The GECCO]

Damn, missed the holeshot again! That's what I get for starting a reply and getting distracted before it's finished lol

[KFinn]

I am not sure what the magical answer is, but here is my unsolicited, generalized, opinion...

Thinking in terms of a struggling business. (lets take a recent example, ummm the banks that went bankrupt)

- Don't pass all the costs directly onto the customers without first trying all of the following.
- Without laying off employees first, try trimming any more tiny bits of fat we still have in the system.
- Don't give the executives and shareholders millions in bonuses.
- Cut operations and nice to have 'benefits' while keeping the required medical and insurance benefits.
- Maybe solicit employees to not get an annual raise or even possibly take a pay cut instead of just laying them off all together.
- Don't ask the government for a bailout and then go on a spending spree.

hehe... sorry a bit of a rant type of opinion due to my pent up issues with banks and the current economy.


So putting this back to the MRA specifically,

IF we tried all these steps, would it slowly pay off? I know it won't just magically make up the 9k deficit but gotta start somewhere right?

Also, if we did try all these steps, would it mean we would only have to pass on $X to the customers instead of a hefty $Y? Hopefully thereby retaining the quantity of racers for this season and future seasons rather than just loosing them all together because Y is to great for them to continue to race but X is barely manageable?

[T Baggins]

Finnigan, you newbie!

We actually did all of that - and more - prior to the 2010 season. That's how we cut 20% ($50k) off of our annual operations costs.

Some of the stuff that seems "obvious" as far as cuts (say trophies for example...) are far from beneficial in the long run. We can talk about it Saturday night.

There's really not much more "to cut" and still have the events properly staffed and safe for competitors.

[KFinn]

Finnegan, you newbie!


Come on Tony!!!! You know we have to do this on purpose, otherwise how would you old so called wise people get your chance to show your wisdom???? LMAO

[KFinn]

We can talk about it Saturday night. Did you mean to type talk or did you actually want, stutter, slur and banter? because that is more like the intoxicated "Saturday Night Tony" I know.

[KFinn]

We actually did all of that - and more - prior to the 2010 season. That's how we cut 20% ($50k) off of our annual operations costs.

Some of the stuff that seems "obvious" as far as cuts (say trophies for example...) are far from beneficial in the long run.
I figured you had from what previous comments talked about... But wanted to voice my opinion before its too late.

Those that don't speak up, can't be heard.

But then there is also the saying, it is better to be thought of as a fool, rather than open your mouth and confirm it.

[T Baggins]

I'm just glad some of the new guys are following along and give crap enough to chime in. I didn't want you to think that we'd forgotten to do our due diligence - which is why I thought we should banter about it on Saturday.

And, for the record, it's nearly impossible to tell when I'm intoxicated or when I'm not. I'm a good drinker in that respect.

[phildrummond]

What Tony means is it's nearly impossible for HIM to tell if he's intoxicated or not.

[T Baggins]

What Tony means is it's nearly impossible for HIM to tell if he's intoxicated or not.

Thats probably more like it. :lol:

[jplracing]

Just my .02 but has the MRA considered going to a one day schedule rather than the two day?

In looking at the results page it appears that most of the classes have 5 or 6 consistent riders. For one reason or another there are several riders who have not made all the events or have signed up for different classes on different weekends. As one of those riders who has been on a extreme budget the last several seasons, trust me I get why people don’t sign up for all the races/classes possible.

It seems to me that if the current program isn’t working (to bring in enough revenue) then it may be time to change it.

In speaking with a board member I understand that all of the tracks require the MRA to rent the track on both days and one day weekend rentals are not an option. So below here is a very rough idea of what could be done to help both the MRA remain solvent AND help the members with the expenses.

Saturday program

Run the day as a open track day. Allow street riders and racers to participate. This is similar in concept to how Wera West runs there events. They allow a track day company to rent the track on Saturday and Wera rents the track on Sunday. This would allow for one of two things. One possibility would be to allow the MRA to share the expense of the weekend with another organization. Two, the MRA could become the track day organization and *hopefully* receive the profit of the track day.

I would assume with more weekend track days available, we will see more street riders participate through out the year simply because they don't have to work on the track days that are currently offered by the tracks

Sunday program

Run the day as a race day. (yes I understand that not everyone will be happy with what I am suggesting for this day).

Run the following classes

Practice
Nov U
LW Superbike
Middleweight Superbike
Nov O
HW Superbike
Open Superbike
Lunch

ROR

LW/Middleweight Endurance
HW/ Open Endurance

Eliminate ALL of the other classes.

This will allow racers the opportunity to enter a couple of sprints and one endurance class (with the exception of the Open guys) plus the possibility of ROR.

This will also remove the “cheating” debate in another thread. If there are no modification limits and only engine size…go ahead and build a superbike overbore ninja 250…who cares at that point.

Eliminate ALL of the other classes.

I believe by doing this the MRA will find more entries per class (rather than the current system that has people spread out over the weekend). I also believe this will entice racers to sign up for more classes as they can do so in one day and eliminate the travel expense of a 2 day event (ie hotels meals etc..) This idea will also reduce the expense to the MRA (assuming they don’t run the track day on Saturday) offering the club a smaller “nut” they have to crack every weekend.

So obviously this is a rough idea that I just typed out…but what do the members think? Would this idea help in increasing sign ups and decrease the expense (to both the MRA and its individual members)?

[The GECCO]

Hey, whats this open can....and where did all these worms come from? :lol:

[T Baggins]

To say it isn't working, may be a bit strong. It just isn't working as well as I wish it was.

We're doing much better than most ANY other club in the country, and we're running MORE rounds than even the AMA.

We're sitting on ~$24K in the bank, (after committed expenses) which we could easily lose with three bad events in a row - especially if we're losing $9K per.

We're not broke yet, and we're not going to go broke. We have enough experience, information, and data to intelligently (instead of emotionally) make business decisions that prevent us from going broke again. We must ensure that we have money at the end of the season to hold the banquet, and have the necessary start-up funds to get 2012 off the ground.

What I have in mind to get the foundation further solidified for next year is pretty simple.

1) A TOTAL increase in fees (for the year) of approximately $120 per rider.

2) 7 rounds instead of 8.

I prefer this option much more than a drastic overhaul of the MRA Race Series. I'm not saying Joe's model couldn't work - I'm just saying that I don't think we need to go to that level to stay solvent.

[T Baggins]

Hey, whats this open can....and where did all these worms come from? :lol:

I prefer to think of them as a can of "educational opportunities" - worms just sounds so icky... :lol:

[rforsythe]

Hey Ralph,

You've missed a meeting or two I guess. We've basically broke even on the season so far - we've not made "decent money" at any event yet in 2011.

Apparently I have. Sorry, I thought the first part of the season had gone much better.


I suspect that people simply can't afford an 8 round series... so they quit when they run out of money.

Very possible. Tires are insanely expensive now thanks to production costs, fuel's up, etc etc. I splurged and did sprints one weekend, but have kept it limited to endurance the rest of the season just because by the time I get done with everything else, actually paying to race just hurts. Guessing the 250 class is so popular just because of the cash outlay that isn't involved with it. I'm still on the fence about getting a small amount of money for my '01, or just making minimal prep on it and playing next season since it's a very economical way to have fun.



What I have in mind to get the foundation further solidified for next year is pretty simple.

1) A TOTAL increase in fees (for the year) of approximately $120 per rider.

2) 7 rounds instead of 8.

I prefer this option much more than a drastic overhaul of the MRA Race Series. I'm not saying Joe's model couldn't work - I'm just saying that I don't think we need to go to that level to stay solvent.

Agreed. Now would the fees be somehow amortized over entries/riders, get tacked onto the license, or both? Just curious. As for rounds, if Pueblo actually gets improved like they're promising that could be a big draw. Put the season opener there (out of practice riders + new asphalt and T10 config should make for a really fun event), maybe one more later on, a Pikes, and the balance at HPR.

Superstreet seems pretty successful, so keep that in. I know there are a number of riders planning on riding it this weekend in some sort of late-season CSC rivalry.

As for the rest of this season, well, we all understand that you gotta do what you gotta do. With another baby coming soon I don't have much skin in the rest of the season after this round, but would certainly understand it (like I think most would) if those rounds didn't happen in the interest of survival. I'm sure there would be a brief e-riot, but this too shall pass.

[spideyrdr]

Some additional newbie observations.

a) I was surprised to see some of the racers drop out mid season. Was it they couldn't afford to continue doing it? Were there expectations of more contingency dollars to fuel the season? Or did they get 'bored'? Is anyone asking defectors what their reasons are?

b) I figure spectator attendance is a relatively small portion of the finances, but maybe I am wrong. I don't feel like there have been a ton of people through the gates, and I have only been able to attend Saturdays this year so I could be totally wrong, but is there maybe even more opportunity there?

c) I am constantly being approached by people when I am out on my street bike and I mention there is a race organization here, they are astounded. In fact, I've had 3 different encounters with some nice Latino guys at various times and they seem interested. Maybe we can market to a different segment? Say, try to get some exposure at some whole new places like during lunch hours or ...?

d) I wish I could race more classes but with a little girl, it's hard to justify this year. If someone were to ask me what it would take to get me participating in more races per weekend, I might have some feedback. Do those questions get asked? Outside of the general meetings (which I am ashamed I can't get too due to the previously-mentioned little girl) is there any initiative to find out what's keeping people for running more races? It could be interesting data.

e) Does having pre-registration close on the Friday before the race weekends help finances or hurt them? Having to pre-register a week ahead can be difficult for a variety of reasons - paychecks are not in yet, work or family obligations have people on the fence, etc. - but if people miss pre-registering, are a lot of them just going 'eff it and skipping the round knowing they are going to pay more and end up at the back of the grid? Whereas if it was closing Monday or whatever, are people more likely to sign up and be there? Since numbers are down this year, it seems like a POSSIBLE item to look at.

f) Much to my personal chagrin, I have been having a hell of a time dragging family (besides my wife and kid), friends, and work friends out to the track. I LOVE the fact the MRA gave out some passes this year, and the gate fee hasn't been the reason they aren't coming. Is there anything - ANYTHING - that I am missing in marketing the events as spectator friendly? Again, I don't know how much money comes from the gate, but if I can't get my closest 'fans' out there, I must be missing something.

g) I have really enjoyed my first year with the club and thank everyone who works hard to keep the club together. I have nothing but gratitude for the hard work you men and women put it. So thank you, and know that points a-f have nothing but respect for this club - despite my newbie status.

See you loonies out there this weekend!

Jamie

[acrovixen]

Hey Tony & Ralph,
Maybe you need to have a follow on fundraiser to the amazing success of Racing2SaveLives... Might I suggest a "Racing2SaveRacing" event? :wink: It "could" work! LOL

If we didn't live so damn far away, Aaron and I would be there for every round. He may not be racing, but I'm getting him trained to be a pretty decent pit bitch :lol:

Love and miss you guys... Hope you get it all sorted out with minimal impact. I have full faith that the club is in great hand's with Tony

[JimWilson29]

Some additional newbie observations.

a) I was surprised to see some of the racers drop out mid season. Was it they couldn't afford to continue doing it? Were there expectations of more contingency dollars to fuel the season? Or did they get 'bored'? Is anyone asking defectors what their reasons are?


Generally racers drop out due to financial reasons. It's nothing new. It happens every year due to the expense and commitment of the sport. More successful racers will definitely depend on contingency as a subsidy but won't stop racing locally because of it. In years past when the manufacturers were paying out well we would get a lot of out-of-town money chasers, but no longer. I doubt there are many that get "bored" and quit. We have no formal procedure regarding those that choose to no longer race but I will always ask when I see them and usually the response is money.



b) I figure spectator attendance is a relatively small portion of the finances, but maybe I am wrong. I don't feel like there have been a ton of people through the gates, and I have only been able to attend Saturdays this year so I could be totally wrong, but is there maybe even more opportunity there?


It is one of the smaller revenue streams for the club. The attendance has been less compared to last year, but still more than the some of the previous years. There is always opportunity for greater numbers of spectators. The question is how to get people to come out to the races, which is the issue you experienced in your statement under f)



c) I am constantly being approached by people when I am out on my street bike and I mention there is a race organization here, they are astounded. In fact, I've had 3 different encounters with some nice Latino guys at various times and they seem interested. Maybe we can market to a different segment? Say, try to get some exposure at some whole new places like during lunch hours or ...?


I have gotten the same reaction many times. People either don't realize there is a road racing club here in Colorado or they know of the MRA but thought it went under 20 years ago.
So are you volunteering to market to this different segment during lunch hours? Did you provide information about the MRA during your 3 different encounters?



d) I wish I could race more classes but with a little girl, it's hard to justify this year. If someone were to ask me what it would take to get me participating in more races per weekend, I might have some feedback. Do those questions get asked? Outside of the general meetings (which I am ashamed I can't get too due to the previously-mentioned little girl) is there any initiative to find out what's keeping people for running more races? It could be interesting data.


No these questions do not get asked. If they were asked, the responses would be 1) cant afford to run more 2) bike is not legal to run any other classes 3) not competitive in other classes that bike is legal for. With the fee structure we have, it "rewards" the rider to enter as many races as possible after the first two entries.
Just the logistics of compiling a list of riders that could run more classes that don't would be a huge headache. It's not something that could be easily done.



e) Does having pre-registration close on the Friday before the race weekends help finances or hurt them? Having to pre-register a week ahead can be difficult for a variety of reasons - paychecks are not in yet, work or family obligations have people on the fence, etc. - but if people miss pre-registering, are a lot of them just going 'eff it and skipping the round knowing they are going to pay more and end up at the back of the grid? Whereas if it was closing Monday or whatever, are people more likely to sign up and be there? Since numbers are down this year, it seems like a POSSIBLE item to look at.


It was moved from the Wednesday before to the Friday a week before to give the board more time to decide if a race weekend was a go or not, which in turn would give you more notice if we were holding a race weekend or not. Keepig pre-entry open till Wednesday would only give 2 days to cancel and you have racers that have already made travel plans.



f) Much to my personal chagrin, I have been having a hell of a time dragging family (besides my wife and kid), friends, and work friends out to the track. I LOVE the fact the MRA gave out some passes this year, and the gate fee hasn't been the reason they aren't coming. Is there anything - ANYTHING - that I am missing in marketing the events as spectator friendly? Again, I don't know how much money comes from the gate, but if I can't get my closest 'fans' out there, I must be missing something.


After 9 years of racing, I have had very few personal friends come to the races. You're not missing anything. Some racers have close family that are always there. Some have family that are never there. Some have no family, like me. You can reach out to your friends and co-workers but my experience is that they usually have plans or more important things to do on the weekends. Not everyone likes racing. And HPR is not necessarily a spectator friendly track.



g) I have really enjoyed my first year with the club and thank everyone who works hard to keep the club together. I have nothing but gratitude for the hard work you men and women put it. So thank you, and know that points a-f have nothing but respect for this club - despite my newbie status.

See you loonies out there this weekend!

Jamie

In times like these when there is the possibility of race weekends getting canceled and the talk of raising fees, it's easy to ask why the board isn't doing more. I get asked almost every day "Why don't you do this... Why don't you do that....". I am doing everything I can, as is the rest of the board. I've been to every dealer open house, bike night, bike show, car show, etc in the past two seasons with very little volunteer help. I carry fliers and programs with me always and hand them to anyone I see on a bike. While at work I spam every Facebook user on the planet with our events.
Back in 2009, the MRA had a financial crisis and canceled some race weekends. This was a wake-up call to the entire membership. We pulled through that and had a couple very successful races to finish out the season. But the great thing was that it wasn't the board that had done this; it was everyone. And that intensity carried over into our 2010 season, making it the best season we have had since 2005.
I don't see and feel the same enthusiasm this season and I don't have an answer to why. But for the MRA to continue to exist, it's going to take an effort from everyone.

[spideyrdr]

In times like these when there is the possibility of race weekends getting canceled and the talk of raising fees, it's easy to ask why the board isn't doing more. I get asked almost every day "Why don't you do this... Why don't you do that....". I am doing everything I can, as is the rest of the board. I've been to every dealer open house, bike night, bike show, car show, etc in the past two seasons with very little volunteer help. I carry fliers and programs with me always and hand them to anyone I see on a bike. While at work I spam every Facebook user on the planet with our events.
Back in 2009, the MRA had a financial crisis and canceled some race weekends. This was a wake-up call to the entire membership. We pulled through that and had a couple very successful races to finish out the season. But the great thing was that it wasn't the board that had done this; it was everyone. And that intensity carried over into our 2010 season, making it the best season we have had since 2005.
I don't see and feel the same enthusiasm this season and I don't have an answer to why. But for the MRA to continue to exist, it's going to take an effort from everyone.

I know you are all doing so much, so I hope my ramblings didn't come off as "why aren't you.." statements. I figure if I understand some of these areas a little better, I might be able to come up with some ideas or at least understand the dynamic. Your responses really helped with that, so thanks Jim!



I have gotten the same reaction many times. People either don't realize there is a road racing club here in Colorado or they know of the MRA but thought it went under 20 years ago.
So are you volunteering to market to this different segment during lunch hours? Did you provide information about the MRA during your 3 different encounters?

I would love to volunteer my lunch hours to help promote the MRA! Reality is I rarely get time away from my desk as it is though. I am, however, throwing out the idea of trying to drum up some interest in some non-conventional locations. I recall someone was talking about doing an event at Walmart. Perhaps there are some opportunities to look for next spring.

Of course I let them know about the MRA. I wanted to give them schedules but I didn't have any on me. The one guy who worked at a Wendy's was recovering from an incident he'd had on his CBR900RR, the other who worked at Del Taco was a car-only guy but was interested in watching races or getting his car out on the track at HPR, and the other guy (a house painter) was a former rider who was interested in watching the races.

I've also been approached at Harbor Freight by riders multiple times. So, fast food joints and bargain tool stores are a hotbed of interested people - who knew!

[dirkterrell]

What I have in mind to get the foundation further solidified for next year is pretty simple.

1) A TOTAL increase in fees (for the year) of approximately $120 per rider.


If, as Jim says, the main reason that riders drop out is because of finances, this may not be the best approach. If lower costs means more riders, then you might be able to actually end up with more money. An accurate survey of riders and why they do or don't race is what you need to figure that out.

How are the novice numbers this year? Superstreet seems to be doing well and that suggests that the influx of new blood is good. Do we need to be doing more for the novices to keep them hooked on racing? What fraction of them make it to their second season?

As for myself, I've missed three weekends, one due to work and two do to a knee injury but I'll be back this weekend.

Dirk

[T Baggins]

Jamie,

I'll toss some thoughts out there. It's early, and I've not had any coffee yet so if I come across as brash, that's not my intent. ;)


Some additional newbie observations.

a) I was surprised to see some of the racers drop out mid season. Was it they couldn't afford to continue doing it? Were there expectations of more contingency dollars to fuel the season? Or did they get 'bored'? Is anyone asking defectors what their reasons are?

Money and lack of competitiveness. Everyone thinks/hopes they're gonna win a championship when they first start out. Continually finishing 23rd can get a bit demoralizing, so people choose spend their time and money elsewhere - or drop the classes they suck in. The almost complete lack of manufacturer contingency isn't helping things for sure. This is why I parked my TZ and am riding a Ninja. I'm in to the season, including BIKE, for under $6k. Who cares if I get any contingency when it's that cheap.


b) I figure spectator attendance is a relatively small portion of the finances, but maybe I am wrong. I don't feel like there have been a ton of people through the gates, and I have only been able to attend Saturdays this year so I could be totally wrong, but is there maybe even more opportunity there?

It's about 5%-10% of our total event income normally. Spectators are definitely down this year, in spite of the free passes we gave out and ALL of the events Jim Wilson has set up and staffed. We're competing with a million other things people can do on the weekends in Colorado. Definitely more opportunity to promote the MRA, but beyond volunteering at industry open houses, etc... we're pretty limited due to nobody volunteering and no budget for advertising. Paying for advertising of any sort is insanely expensive. We could easily spend $5k in radio or print ads, and if that doubled our attendance for a round, we'd have a net loss of $2500 on the expenditure.

I have a contact who promotes MMA fights and he has expressed some interest in hooking up, but honestly I've traveled over 30,000 miles just since June for work and such and haven't had time to chase this down. I was away from home 14 days in June, 10 days in July and 18 days in August.


c) I am constantly being approached by people when I am out on my street bike and I mention there is a race organization here, they are astounded. In fact, I've had 3 different encounters with some nice Latino guys at various times and they seem interested. Maybe we can market to a different segment? Say, try to get some exposure at some whole new places like during lunch hours or ...?

Best thing you can do is carry passes, 2 for 1's and Super street flyers with you and hand them out. We have a potential marketing department of over 200 racers in the MRA. Very few actively promote the MRA, however... There's only so much the 11 of us Board members can do while trying to hold down day jobs, raise families, etc. Our lives are more hectic than most of you could ever imagine.


d) I wish I could race more classes but with a little girl, it's hard to justify this year. If someone were to ask me what it would take to get me participating in more races per weekend, I might have some feedback. Do those questions get asked? Outside of the general meetings (which I am ashamed I can't get too due to the previously-mentioned little girl) is there any initiative to find out what's keeping people for running more races? It could be interesting data.

We did a survey to members after 2009 and overwhelmingly it was money and family pressure that caused people to quit altogether. We also split the weekend so that people could race one day or the other, still get in 2-3 races that day and have the other weekend day to do family stuff, household chores, etc... this was well received, and MANY riders race either one day or the other. This also cut the need for people to pay for hotels, etc...

Mid season people drop classes when they figure out they're entirely out of the hunt, or the class is no longer fun. I've done this with Colorado Class this year. No fun for me to ride around by myself in 12th place.


e) Does having pre-registration close on the Friday before the race weekends help finances or hurt them? Having to pre-register a week ahead can be difficult for a variety of reasons - paychecks are not in yet, work or family obligations have people on the fence, etc. - but if people miss pre-registering, are a lot of them just going 'eff it and skipping the round knowing they are going to pay more and end up at the back of the grid? Whereas if it was closing Monday or whatever, are people more likely to sign up and be there? Since numbers are down this year, it seems like a POSSIBLE item to look at.

Friday before allows the Board to know, well in advance, what the finances look like. If we have to cancel a round, we can tell people on MONDAY, rather than Thursday just before. Many people travel a long distance and we need to tell them we've canceled BEFORE they hit the road to Denver. We publish the race schedule in October or November the year prior. IMO, people have plenty of time to set their calendar and budget for 8 weekends. If you're still deciding the week of, then you go into the "walkup entry income" category for our forecasting. It's $40 more at the track if you don't register online. If $40 is the deal breaker, run pump gas instead of race gas. Or, more honestly, if $40 is the deal breaker - you're running too close to race program bankruptcy anyway. A crash or mechanical means you're out for the season.

[T Baggins]

Dirk,

$120 PER RACER, TOTAL, for the entire season. This is peanuts per rider, but would provide an additional $24k cushion which would prevent us having to consider canceling events. That's $17.14 per weekend if we do 7 rounds. Everyone pitches in equally so that the greater good (MRA) can continue to exist.

Insurance, track rental, and everything else are going to go up next year. We'd have to raise fees anyway just to keep from falling further behind. The cost to run a season series is essentially fixed, regardless of rider turnout. The fewer the riders the greater the cost... We have fewer riders, somebody gotta pick up the difference.

Lowering fees won't increase participation anyway, imo. Entry fees are the smallest portion of the race program cost. What people should do is learn to shift a motorcycle without having to use a $300 quick shifter. ;)

To see an increase in participation we'd have to cut entry fees by half to see any significant difference, which means we'd have to double participation. This is impossible, since already MORE than half of all of our members attend each round.

Ralph,

I'm thinking bump in license fee (which is in the off season) and $10 per rider per weekend in entry fees.

[KFinn]

We publish the race schedule in October or November the year prior. IMO, people have plenty of time to set their calendar and budget for 8 weekends. If you're still deciding the week of, then you go into the "walkup entry income" category for our forecasting. It's $40 more at the track if you don't register online. If $40 is the deal breaker, run pump gas instead of race gas. While yes, some probably are more fly by the seat of their pants, some of us did budget in December but may not have made the extra side income during the early part of the season that we anticipated due to other factors out of our control so we do the best we can by improvising. (Dealing low grade drugs and giving bad hand jobs in a dark alley of Denver will only get you so far. Inquiries for my services can contact me later. j/k) hehe....



Or, more honestly, if $40 is the deal breaker - you're running too close to race program bankruptcy anyway. A crash or mechanical means you're out for the season.
Hahaha .... I thought that is how most of us ran out there that are newbs! I know I run pump and take offs and for the most part, cut every corner I can financially so I can afford the entry fees and take offs. LOL.... And if I did crash and it was more than just one or two parts, i would be done for the season. But that is how it is this year and last year and I try to keep that in mind during a race and race at 90%. In coming years I hope to have this not be the case.

But I would rather race an awesome partial season on a tight budget than wait a few more years and do it all out. Part of my reasoning is that the more money I have so I am not cutting it close, the more ways I will find to spend the money and still end up cutting it close. So to me it is a 'why bother waiting' situation. More money will still not be enough money. Right?!?! hehe

[dirkterrell]

$120 PER RACER, TOTAL, for the entire season. This is peanuts per rider, but would provide an additional $24k cushion which would prevent us having to consider canceling events. That's $17.14 per weekend if we do 7 rounds. Everyone pitches in equally so that the greater good (MRA) can continue to exist.


I agree that doesn't seem like too much but it is going in the wrong direction if costs are indeed the main reason why people quit



Insurance, track rental, and everything else are going to go up next year. We'd have to raise fees anyway just to keep from falling further behind. The cost to run a season series is essentially fixed, regardless of rider turnout. The fewer the riders the greater the cost... We have fewer riders, somebody gotta pick up the difference.


Yes, but if we can figure out how to increase the number of racers (and why we appear to lose them), then the situation might look very different.



Lowering fees won't increase participation anyway, imo. Entry fees are the smallest portion of the race program cost.


It may not be for you guys at the top but that may not be the case for a bunch of the slower riders, especially at the novice level. As slow as I am, I don't burn through tires all that fast. In fact, I haven't replaced mine yet this year. What we really need to figure out what's going on with participation is to find out who is dropping out and why. Then we can figure out how to address it. If someone could give me a raw dump of data on who raced what classes at each round, I would be happy to go through it and see what patterns might be there. Then we might be able to figure out how to keep more people racing.



What people should do is learn to shift a motorcycle without having to use a $300 quick shifter. ;)


Seeing as my bike is completely stock except for the plastics and rearsets (and I'd probably be running them if I hadn't sent the bike bike sliding through 7 at PMP three years ago), I'm glad to know I'm doing the right thing. :D



To see an increase in participation we'd have to cut entry fees by half to see any significant difference, which means we'd have to double participation. This is impossible, since already MORE than half of all of our members attend each round.


Looks like we've dropped about a third or so. Clear statistics on why are what we need.

[JimWilson29]

I know you are all doing so much, so I hope my ramblings didn't come off as "why aren't you.." statements. I figure if I understand some of these areas a little better, I might be able to come up with some ideas or at least understand the dynamic. Your responses really helped with that, so thanks Jim!


I would love to volunteer my lunch hours to help promote the MRA! Reality is I rarely get time away from my desk as it is though. I am, however, throwing out the idea of trying to drum up some interest in some non-conventional locations. I recall someone was talking about doing an event at Walmart. Perhaps there are some opportunities to look for next spring.


This is a reality for everyone. The board members don't run the club for a living. All of us have regular jobs. Tony is traveling all over the world in between races, Brown is in South Dakota 2000 feet in the ground digging holes between race weekends, Wyeth is selling homes 7 days a week, I'm working 7-6 Mon-Friday and I think Lisa is working more than that, etc. I think you get the drift. We can't do it ourselves. I can't be everywhere all of the time and neither can the rest of the board. Ideas for new opportunities are great only if they are followed up on. There have been ideas posted up this past year of doing different things (the Walmart idea was one) but they never materialized if I, or one of the other board members, didnt show up in person. As Tony stated, we have a potential marketing department of over the 200 racers in this club. At the last race weekend I was approached by someone who asked why arent we doing more to boost the attendance. I asked him if he'd be willing to help out with changing that. His response was that it's not his job. He was wrong. It's up to all of us to keep this club going. We need you.



Of course I let them know about the MRA. I wanted to give them schedules but I didn't have any on me. The one guy who worked at a Wendy's was recovering from an incident he'd had on his CBR900RR, the other who worked at Del Taco was a car-only guy but was interested in watching races or getting his car out on the track at HPR, and the other guy (a house painter) was a former rider who was interested in watching the races.

I've also been approached at Harbor Freight by riders multiple times. So, fast food joints and bargain tool stores are a hotbed of interested people - who knew!

Grab a stack of fliers and programs from me at the races this weekend so you have them on you. That way you are prepared to give them out when you encounter potential new racers or spectators.

[T Baggins]

Hey Dirk,

let's chat this weekend. If you're willing/able to scrub data I'm more than happy to provide it.

We can also do another online survey thing like we did last year (I had forgotten we did it, and can't remember the topic of the survey...) to see what peoples thoughts are.

The one problem with these surveys, however, is pretty much the only people who respond are the ones already involved in the discussion and are the die-hards who attend every round anyway.

As far as costs - remember I'm thinking about cutting a round next year - so the $120 increase per rider will be offset by whatever you normally spend to attend a race weekend ($500 - $1500 for most people) so really it's a savings.

I can make anything look like a savings if you give me enough time! :lol:

[dirkterrell]

Hey Dirk,

let's chat this weekend. If you're willing/able to scrub data I'm more than happy to provide it.


Sure, I'd be happy to look at the data and see what they can tell us. I'll catch up with you on Saturday sometime.

[motolitho]

Just want to add:

I have had a really hard time getting people to come out too. The reality of it is that this sport can be an incredibly selfish thing to do. Nobody has the same passion that your or I do for it- therefor- asking someone to spend all day in the heat to watch you or help you is a big ask. No matter how cool you think it is. My father taught me this after 30 years racing in the SCCA- it's the same deal for them too.

Also- the work that has been done on the PR side is relentless and under appreciated. I know this because when I first started I wanted to understand better why we could not just fill the stands with hoards of ex-nascar fans. I ended up helping out in a small way and standing by as the Board worked their asses off saving a season. If it can be done -it's done.

It's a huge amount of work and I am grateful that we have people as passionate as we do running the show.

[KFinn]

Nobody has the same passion that your or I do for it- therefor- asking someone to spend all day in the heat to watch you or help you is a big ask. No matter how cool you think it is. My father taught me this after 30 years racing in the SCCA- it's the same deal for them too. True, but what I don't understand then is how does Bandimere do so well? WHy do people that don't have a passion for drag racing enjoy watching it so much?

[motolitho]

Nobody has the same passion that your or I do for it- therefor- asking someone to spend all day in the heat to watch you or help you is a big ask. No matter how cool you think it is. My father taught me this after 30 years racing in the SCCA- it's the same deal for them too. True, but what I don't understand then is how does Bandimere do so well? WHy do people that don't have a passion for drag racing enjoy watching it so much?

Think about it... drag racing is a spectator friendly event. Everything is right there before them- including an answer on who won in 10 seconds or less- WITH BEER!
In roadracing- the average guy has no idea what the hell is going on accept these bikes (or cars) go cruising by every once in a while. And that's it- right? Right.

[Bartman]

So what you are saying is we need a spectator area where the great unwashed can swill some beer and they will come.
Seriously Nascar and dragracing are sports that take almost no thought to watch and you really don't have to understand it, kinka like curling I don't get it at all but it fascinates me watch.
Most don't get what we do roadracing and it does not matter if it is bike or car they don't care and I have no idea how to get them to understand and there for want to watch it. There is less of the wow factor like in motorcross and it would help if we could get the spectators closer in a high speed section so they could feel the speed more.

[Munch]

Is it $40 or $20 for missing registration deadline?

I thought I read in the rulebook it was $20, but see $40 in the post above, thanks!

[Thoward618]

I'll add my 2 cents from a spectator view.
1) Agreed that most people do not understand motorcycle roadracing. When I started attending the races I was fortunate number 1 we sponsored a racer and number 2 board members...Jim Wilson mostly explained what was going on. I know that can't happen for everyone. Not knocking the tracks but they really aren't spectator friendly, no shade.
2) As a class sponsor I wouldn't be upset if only a limited number of free admission passes are provided. I use mine as prizes at our events. For the most part I don't hand them out, it's $10 bucks...that isn't going to break anyone. I know spectator income is not a large portion of income, however every dollar helps. Just as the MRA is losing racers, ABATE is losing members. I believe that is due to the economy and life in general.
3) The idea of some sort of fundraiser in my opinion is a good idea. I haven't put a great deal of thought to it but I am sure we could come up with something. Every member (including myself) would need to actively sell it to make it worth while. 3 or 4 people can't accomplish it. Every motorcyclist no matter what category you are in, open their pockets to raise money for cancer, kids, veterans, animals etc. I am not saying this is a bad thing...but we need to remember charity begins at home. When you give that $5 bucks...you could be putting it back in your own club.
4) Running an organization myself, I am well aware that too many people think the Board should make things happen. The Board relies on MEMBERS to help make things happen. We raise the price of something even $5 and we have folks dropping like flies. Folks seem to have other things on their minds these days. I am not saying not to do it, just speaking from experience.
5) I know the publicity is out there. Jim has worked hard to find and organize events to get the word out. Same problem with my organization...why aren't people responding? Maybe we need to go outside the "usual". MRA attracts a limited demographic, same as we do.

OK, I have pointed out a lot that has already been said with no real solutions. My intent is not to discourage any previous comments, just my thoughts. I think a lively discussion with members is due. There's a wealth of knowledge in this club. All of us need to put ideas out how to keep the MRA thriving.

[T Baggins]

Is it $40 or $20 for missing registration deadline?

I thought I read in the rulebook it was $20, but see $40 in the post above, thanks!

Online entry is $130 for the first race - it's less cause it's automatic (but must be done by Midnight the friday before)

FAX / Paper entry is $150 for the first race - its more cause it's manual. (but must be done by Midnight the friday before)

Late fee of $20 applies if you sign up any time after pre-entry closes, and we use the paper entry pricing as the baseline.

[vort3xr6]

I quit because of finances, and racing stopped being fun. The best time I had racing was practice sessions swapping positions with buddies. The actual race was a let down.

[slo lee]

Does anyone have an idea regarding how many superstreet riders get licensed and begin racing. As everyone has been saying growing the organization is one of the most important keys to the future and survival. I'm new to this but I've thought that the MRA does many things very well and has expert leadership and management. They need more help from volunteers. How do new people get involved with all aspects of the club. There are 4 hours of service for novices. Do people who actually do the hours instead of paying the $100 continue to be involved? Do superstreet riders get licenses and race? I liked the idea of sharing the weekend with a club/business wanting to sponsor a track day. If I'm not a competitive racer I feel I could participate in a regularly scheduled event and hopefully improve my riding. Plus I'd get to know other racers at my level. Maybe there's a way the MRA can make enough money at this to be the sponsor of the track day. Does the race school bring in enough to make this idea practical? Just thinkin'.

[rforsythe]

I don't know what the conversion ratio is, but watching 26 superstreet racers take the class and grid up today was pretty cool. Never seen that group so large before, and despite some usual boneheaded stuff in the race, they actually all got around (except one guy on the white flag lap, but he was up and walking).

[acrovixen]

What a great concept to get new riders into the sport... Hope that a fair number of them opt to stick around for a few seasons :wink:

[peteremsley]

I don't know what the conversion ratio is, but watching 26 superstreet racers take the class and grid up today was pretty cool. Never seen that group so large before, and despite some usual boneheaded stuff in the race, they actually all got around (except one guy on the white flag lap, but he was up and walking).

Pretty cool? That was some of the most exciting racing of the day. Well done to all!

[spideyrdr]

What a great concept to get new riders into the sport... Hope that a fair number of them opt to stick around for a few seasons :wink:

A few of us have used SuperStreet as the gateway drug into the MRA and have stuck around to race. I don't know official numbers, though. It was indeed great to see such good participation this weekend!

[Chadwick929]

I don't know what the conversion ratio is, but watching 26 superstreet racers take the class and grid up today was pretty cool. Never seen that group so large before, and despite some usual boneheaded stuff in the race, they actually all got around (except one guy on the white flag lap, but he was up and walking).
And that bonehead on the black R1 in 2nd place that had a leak. Who was that guy? :lol:

[T Baggins]

We had at least a dozen from last year license up, and at least a handful this year.

It's been a great introduction to get people "off the fence" as to whether they want to try racing or not. The "traditional" approach to starting racing is just too big of a cliff (financially) to jump off. Superstreet is a great gateway drug. :D

[acrovixen]

We had at least a dozen from last year license up, and at least a handful this year.

It's been a great introduction to get people "off the fence" as to whether they want to try racing or not. The "traditional" approach to starting racing is just too big of a cliff (financially) to jump off. Superstreet is a great gateway drug. :D

Sure seems like it. :) And it sounds very exciting to watch!! We'll have to make it out for some Saturday races next year! :wink: Of course, NOTHING will beat watching the Honey Badger in that 250 class; Turpin Shmurpin hehe :wink:

Keep up the great work Tony! You and the Board are doing some great stuff! It's heartwarming to know I'll have some racing to come back to in a couple years!! :D

[slo lee]

No doubt people race for many reasons. It's exciting, intoxicating, addictive, just plain fun . . whatever. I think another reason people "get off the fence" has to do with the relationship between a more experienced racer and a newbie. It makes the newness less strange and there is someone who may be able to answer questions. I think Brownie really gets this and that's why superstreet is doing so well. You more experienced riders haven't talked with him on the phone as a new racer. I did. He was patient, friendly, knowledgeable and really connected with me and my concerns. He and others are establishing a culture, tone and new riders seem to be responding. Big props to Brownie and the other instructors. IMHO, these guys are building the future of the club membership. If there were a way to continue to the connection between the riders themselves and also their instructors that may help the new riders take the next step and get involved with the club. Maybe it's exchanging emails or notifying the newbies of track days or meet ups at the monthly meeting . . . stuff that wouldn't require a lot of time and energy but would keep the connection going. My $.02.

[zedx6rroadracer]

a few thoughts from a spectator.

Reason I dont race and attend more events? Because I work. When the opportunity arrises for me to attend a race the only track that I would prefer would be PPIR. Why PPIR? because as a spectator I can see whats going on. Trust me I love HPR, its beautiful but its not fun for me to drag my wife and I out only to see a couple corners and sit in the sun all day. Sitting in the pits is not all that fun all day long. Second Creak was fun as well, again because I could visually see whats going on. I would assume there are others that feel the same. build a path and some more benches at other more interesting corners and you will find more people could show.

AS a friend of several racers who have quit racing, the reason they quit is because it is a very expensive sport. Some are not fast enough to be competitive so it becomes less fun and others are fast enough to compete but the ELITE are getting the sponsorships. Its hard to race a $10,000 bike against a $50,000 bike. when your spending $1000 or more a weekend that can certainly put a strain on your life. Not all of us are blessed with the jobs that fly us around the world, etc. Some of us are grunts and do what we must to survive.

Thats the dilemma. My opinion but a reason that the position has risen again.

[Bueller999]

I am not competitive and my bike is all of $4k I have no work and have not seen much since April. I have no sponsors and kind of prefer not having to deal with that. I am only racing light weight endurance but I have a great time doing that. I do not like PPIR at all and did not race there the first go around and really didn't plan on doing this next round, but I would like for round 8 to happen so I may have to go ahead and show up to lend what little support I am able to.
I have come to realize that racing is what you want to make of it. Racing for last place can be a lot of fun too, it's all how you look at it.

[jmaher]

This might be in the wrong spot but I thought I would chime in. I've managed to race on a budget and have a few sponsors that when totaled pay for 25-30% of my racing. As posted earlier somewhere in this forum, it's what you do off that track for them. I'm working hard to line up a bigger sponsor for next year. My Scooternews connection helps a lot. The paper was (still is) looking for someone part time (like a couple hours a week) to sell advertising and do some writing. It was not enough to live on but the potential there could have definately supplemented and possibly PAID for a full season racing for one person maybe more. I was surprised no one needed the $ help. As for getting more people into the sport, look at what has worked and do more or try something different, and what has not worked and don't do it any more. If it were not for the mentorship from Eric Peat, Joe Cat, Scott (129), John (808), and Mike Appplehans, I would not have stuck around.

Joe

[JimWilson29]

a few thoughts from a spectator.

Reason I dont race and attend more events? Because I work. When the opportunity arrises for me to attend a race the only track that I would prefer would be PPIR. Why PPIR? because as a spectator I can see whats going on. Trust me I love HPR, its beautiful but its not fun for me to drag my wife and I out only to see a couple corners and sit in the sun all day. Sitting in the pits is not all that fun all day long. Second Creak was fun as well, again because I could visually see whats going on. I would assume there are others that feel the same. build a path and some more benches at other more interesting corners and you will find more people could show.


I share your opinion on why HPR is not the spectator track that PPIR is. I hear it firsthand from those who have come out previously to spectate and that they will not come out again due to only being able to see one or two turns. Unfortunately it's not up to the MRA to build paths and add grandstands there. HPR has been putting alot of money into the facility since it opened and eventually there will some improvements to spectator amenities.