MRA Vendors Will Play Nice With Each Other Thread 2011

[Vanmar Racing]

Here is the MRA Contingency Comparison for 2011

Michelin = 98,545.00
Bridgestone = 69200.00
Continental= 45760.00
Dunlop=34600.00
Pirelli=0


<iframe src="http://filezilla.mra-racing.org/files/2011_contingency_comparison1.pdf" width="900" height="700" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>

[Bartman]

Just talked with Bridgestone today and they forgot to include F40 and the 250 and are in the process of changing the form. No contingency for the 4 hour at this point but can prolly talk them into it. Any contingency that you did not sign up for we can get it taken care of no worries.

[ChickenStrip]

That's cool that Michelin pays the most but what about guys like me that have no chance of placing top 5? What's in it for racers that place 6 and below?

Personally, I would just like to see what retail is on 120/180 sets of DOT Race tires from vendors. At my level all these tires will perform well enough for me, so price will be more of a deciding factor.

[jmaher]

That's cool that Michelin pays the most but what about guys like me that have no chance of placing top 5? What's in it for racers that place 6 and below?

Personally, I would just like to see what retail is on 120/180 sets of DOT Race tires from vendors. At my level all these tires will perform well enough for me, so price will be more of a deciding factor.

I agree as I am in the same boat, and for me not only price but service and support for me not being one of the fastest. I also know different tires, bikes, etc work different for different racers. Me using the same equipment as the fastest racers is not going to make me one of them. I might be going out on a limb here, but I bet more money is made is spent by those out of the top 5 than those in.

Joe

[Bartman]

Well since you asked I will give you the pricing for the Bridgys, pricing for the new RT10 dots is 380 for a 180 set and 390 for the 190 set, the older 003 dots are 305 for 180 and 315 for the 190 set and slick pricing is about the same as the new dots.
I like the idea of have the pricing out there for all to see so riders can make up their own minds as to what tire to ride for the right reasons, ride a tire that you like and live happily ever after.
I hope the other tire vendors put their pricing up as well so it all make sense to the new and older racers as well.
Dave if this thred is in the wrong spot move it please.
Thanks The Bartman

[hcr25]

In My opinion we can go fast on any tire made. All of the brands are very good and once you set up your bike and learn the characteristics of the tire you can succeed on any of them. That being said tire choice should be determined on several factors. How the tire works for you and you confidence in the tire, customer service, price and contingency might be a few. If one brand was all things for everyone they would not have any competition. Decide on what is important to you and go fast!!

I posted the Continental prices in the vendor forum but a 120/180 DOT set is $365 and a 190 set is $382

[R1-2NV]

Interesting. Depends on what the tires cost. But for those that are in the 95% that are not in the top 5 its like winning contigency in a way if the tires are cheaper. What do the Dunlops and Michelin's go for?

Ps this does seem to be in the wrong section.

[R1-2NV]

.

[T Baggins]

Longevity of the tire is also a consideration assuming performance is similar. If a set costs $1000, but lasts all season it's a better value than a set that's only $200 but barely makes a weekend.

I can make pretty much "any" tire last half a season or more... (even on a real bike) by paying attention to the details.

Tire pressures, proper use of tire warmers, etc... are all factors.

[dave_g]

Always creative in our methods to advertise to the masses...

LISTEN UP:

Mike, Oscar, Bart-man, and all vendors--

Although the PDF document above is apparently hosted on MRA servers, it is not done so as preferencial treatment to any one specific vendor and was not done with my knowledge. And, since I am happy to turn yet another thread into another sh!tsandwich, here is what I am going to do for everyone:

If you guys (or any other vendors) have any PDF documents that outline your service or contingency plans etc etc etc showing your support of the MRA, email them to the below address. I will make sure they are posted and you are provided with a link so that you can embed anything you want here or in your threads in your vendor areas.

Email webmaster@mra-racing.org with what you have and I will shoot you back a link to where it is hosted. Only PDF/JPG/GIF/etc please (no .doc, .xls, or other editable files).

[dave_g]

I'll even start:

http://filezilla.mra-racing.org/files/2011MRA_sponsorchart.jpg

[dave_g]

http://filezilla.mra-racing.org/files/2011MRACard_Front_web.jpg

[dave_g]

One for our SuperStreet friends:

http://filezilla.mra-racing.org/files/2011_Super_StreetPoster_web.jpg

[vort3xr6]

Pricing transparency is a big deal for any rider. When you find out that another rider is getting the same tire, $30 less than you, and getting "extra" contingency added on, it doesn't say good things about the vendor.

That being said, I am glad the MRA has a large group of vendors to choose from, and the support from most of the vendors has been fantastic.

[dragos13]

Pricing transparency is a big deal for any rider. When you find out that another rider is getting the same tire, $30 less than you, and getting "extra" contingency added on, it doesn't say good things about the vendor.

That being said, I am glad the MRA has a large group of vendors to choose from, and the support from most of the vendors has been fantastic.

Brad tire pricing is similar to any sponsor hookup. You might be sponsored by a shop for cost + 10% where the next guy might only get cost + 20%. Tire prices are not usually the exact same for all riders as riders who have done more for a sponsor (promotion, winning, etc) can sometimes get better deals.

[vort3xr6]

Brad tire pricing is similar to any sponsor hookup. You might be sponsored by a shop for cost + 10% where the next guy might only get cost + 20%. Tire prices are not usually the exact same for all riders as riders who have done more for a sponsor (promotion, winning, etc) can sometimes get better deals.

Understood. As long as the favoritism isn't blatantly obvious, and it's fair, then that philosophy could work. Otherwise it's just going to breed hostility and resentment.

[Bartman]

Always creative in our methods to advertise to the masses...

LISTEN UP:

Mike, Oscar, Bart-man, and all vendors--

Although the PDF document above is apparently hosted on MRA servers, it is not done so as preferencial treatment to any one specific vendor and was not done with my knowledge. And, since I am happy to turn yet another thread into another sh!tsandwich, here is what I am going to do for everyone:

If you guys (or any other vendors) have any PDF documents that outline your service or contingency plans etc etc etc showing your support of the MRA, email them to the below address. I will make sure they are posted and you are provided with a link so that you can embed anything you want here or in your threads in your vendor areas.

Email webmaster@mra-racing.org with what you have and I will shoot you back a link to where it is hosted. Only PDF/JPG/GIF/etc please (no .doc, .xls, or other editable files).

Thank you Davie for your continued schooling of the great unwashed masses, not kidding by the way just want to be transparent as other have stated they want. If anybody wants to contact me they can call me at the shop PM me. 303-825-0975

[Bartman]

Pricing transparency is a big deal for any rider. When you find out that another rider is getting the same tire, $30 less than you, and getting "extra" contingency added on, it doesn't say good things about the vendor.

That being said, I am glad the MRA has a large group of vendors to choose from, and the support from most of the vendors has been fantastic.

Brad tire pricing is similar to any sponsor hookup. You might be sponsored by a shop for cost + 10% where the next guy might only get cost + 20%. Tire prices are not usually the exact same for all riders as riders who have done more for a sponsor (promotion, winning, etc) can sometimes get better deals.

Also loyalty to your vendor over the years might come into play as well, I have riders who have been with me for years for tires motors tuning suspension and I like to think it is because I treat them right (not to say I have not screwed the pooch a time or two) but many factors come into play with the whole sponsorship deal and that includes tire pricing.

[Sol Performance]

guess I will do a general reply and say that if anyone has questions about Dunlop tire pricing then either write or call me and I would be glad to go over them with you. (I promised Dave G. I would not talk about prices or such on the general forum again, even though I already got in trouble for posting) :)

Also, if you are interested in sponsorship from Sol Performance, its not too late. Contact me and we can talk about that as well.

I defintely agree that last place should get as much attention as first place. When you purchase tires, you should be paying for more than just black round things. Not only are tires different from brand to brand but the whole program that comes with them is different too. HOWEVER, last place should not be paying for first place to race..

[Bartman]

Oscar I love the way you put that, last should not pay for first. I love working with the mid and backpack guys almost more than the fast guys since there are so many ways to help them get faster.

[Clarkie]

Pricing transparency is a big deal for any rider. When you find out that another rider is getting the same tire, $30 less than you, and getting "extra" contingency added on, it doesn't say good things about the vendor.

So by your thinking, anyone with a race licence should be able to walk into 303 and get the same discount as you? :D You know sponsorship doesnt work that way right?

[vort3xr6]

[quote=vort3xr6]
So by your thinking, anyone with a race licence should be able to walk into 303 and get the same discount as you? :D You know sponsorship doesnt work that way right?

I think the big difference here is that you are assuming a tire vendor is the same thing as a shop sponsorship.

It's my 2nd year racing so I don't claim to know exactly how all this works, but just cause you bought tires from a vendor doesn't make you a sponsored rider from that vendor IMO. What exactly is a sponsorship? You toss some logos on your bike and get charged full MSRP? Or should I walk into the Dunlop tent demanding cost on tires. Oscar will agree, I have never or will never do that! :)

I appreciate any help any sponsor will give me and in return I market them as many ways as possible. I see street riders and hand them out 303 business cards. Does that mean I should start telling them to ride Dunlops just because that is what brand of race tire I buy? Apples to Apples Clarkie.

[JimWilson29]

[quote=vort3xr6]
So by your thinking, anyone with a race licence should be able to walk into 303 and get the same discount as you? :D You know sponsorship doesnt work that way right?

I think the big difference here is that you are assuming a tire vendor is the same thing as a shop sponsorship.

It's my 2nd year racing so I don't claim to know exactly how all this works, but just cause you bought tires from a vendor doesn't make you a sponsored rider from that vendor IMO. What exactly is a sponsorship? You toss some logos on your bike and get charged full MSRP? Or should I walk into the Dunlop tent demanding cost on tires. Oscar will agree, I have never or will never do that! :)

I appreciate any help any sponsor will give me and in return I market them as many ways as possible. I see street riders and hand them out 303 business cards. Does that mean I should start telling them to ride Dunlops just because that is what brand of race tire I buy? Apples to Apples Clarkie.

I'm having trouble understanding your logic. So if I go buy tires from Oscar, that is different than if I go buy something from 303 assuming I am not sponsored by either? What if I am? It should always be confidential. Some get better deals than others and it's dependant on a variety of factors, not just where they finish in race.

[Clarkie]

Vanmar sells Michelin's, the rider may be sponsored by Vanmar, Michelin or both. The same thing applies with all the tire vendors, they are Vendors of a product and choose who they sponsor. The Vendor sells a product the same way as any shop, they have over-head and need to make a profit to remain in business.

Now if a vendor was selling above the retail price yeah that is BS to me. I told everyone to buy Pirelli's when I raced for them, street tire or race tire and if I was sponsored by Oscar and 303 Cycle I would tell them (street riders) to buy Dunlops from Oscar if they were up north or at the track, and 303 if down in the Denver area, but that's just me.

Like Jim said, a racer's sponsorship level is between them and the vendor/supplier/shop/manufacturer and shouldnt be public knowledge. I have been paid to use a product as well as receiving that product for free, it was never common knowledge how much or even if I was paid as far as I was concerned, my job was to wear and promote their product as per our contract

[rybo]

I think the big difference here is that you are assuming a tire vendor is the same thing as a shop sponsorship.

It's my 2nd year racing so I don't claim to know exactly how all this works, but just cause you bought tires from a vendor doesn't make you a sponsored rider from that vendor IMO. What exactly is a sponsorship? You toss some logos on your bike and get charged full MSRP? Or should I walk into the Dunlop tent demanding cost on tires. Oscar will agree, I have never or will never do that! :)

I appreciate any help any sponsor will give me and in return I market them as many ways as possible. I see street riders and hand them out 303 business cards. Does that mean I should start telling them to ride Dunlops just because that is what brand of race tire I buy? Apples to Apples Clarkie.

Brad,

All that being said, I can be a racer customer of 303 even if I'm not sponsored by them, just like you can be a racer customer of a tire vendor.

In order to collect contingency dollars from the tire manufacturer you're required to run their stickers on your bike and list them as a sponsor.

Beyond that you COULD work out an arrangement with your tire vendor (essentially that shop that sells you your tires) for a discount on the product you purchase from them.

That contingency is in the mix makes the tire thing more challenging than a typical sponsorship since most other potential sponsors don't have manufacturers that offer contingency money.

s

[vort3xr6]

I'm having trouble understanding your logic. So if I go buy tires from Oscar, that is different than if I go buy something from 303 assuming I am not sponsored by either? What if I am? It should always be confidential. Some get better deals than others and it's dependent on a variety of factors, not just where they finish in race.

Tires are a necessity for racing and I pay what the tire vendor tells me they cost. That is usually how businesses work. The point of a sponsorship is to provide benefit to the business in the form of marketing, and or services, in exchange for products / money. How do you market your tire vendor? Since the tire vendors usually don't make a living selling street tires, what do you actually do to increase their sales or bring benefit to their business? By winning. So to back my original point, no I do not believe a tire sponsorship is the same.

[JimWilson29]

I'm having trouble understanding your logic. So if I go buy tires from Oscar, that is different than if I go buy something from 303 assuming I am not sponsored by either? What if I am? It should always be confidential. Some get better deals than others and it's dependent on a variety of factors, not just where they finish in race.

Tires are a necessity for racing and I pay what the tire vendor tells me they cost. That is usually how businesses work. The point of a sponsorship is to provide benefit to the business in the form of marketing, and or services, in exchange for products / money. How do you market your tire vendor? Since the tire vendors usually don't make a living selling street tires, what do you actually do to increase their sales or bring benefit to their business? By winning. So to back my original point, no I do not believe a tire sponsorship is the same.

I've actually never won a race but I have had tire sponsors for a number of years now. So what do I do to actually increase their sales or bring benefit to their business? I try to send as much business as possible to them, like I would with any other sponsor. Sponsorship at the club level is not as much about what you do on the track as what you do off of it.

[vort3xr6]

I've actually never won a race but I have had tire sponsors for a number of years now. So what do I do to actually increase their sales or bring benefit to their business? I try to send as much business as possible to them, like I would with any other sponsor. Sponsorship at the club level is not as much about what you do on the track as what you do off of it.

I fully agree. Forgive my inexperience in not understanding how tire "sponsorships" actually work. From my personal experience the past 2 years, all I saw was that you buy expensive tires, and get them mounted. If you are fast and win, then you get better pricing and contingency. If that is not the way it works then someone take me to school.

FYI, this is the stuff nobody EVER tells new racers. And most people, myself included, just take everything at face value.

[rybo]

Tires are a necessity for racing and I pay what the tire vendor tells me they cost. That is usually how businesses work. The point of a sponsorship is to provide benefit to the business in the form of marketing, and or services, in exchange for products / money. How do you market your tire vendor? Since the tire vendors usually don't make a living selling street tires, what do you actually do to increase their sales or bring benefit to their business? By winning. So to back my original point, no I do not believe a tire sponsorship is the same.

Brad you're more creative than that. I can think of at least 5 ways to promote my tire brand / vendor outside of winning races.

Thank goodness too, I've only won 1 race in my whole career. By your measure no tire brand would want me.

[spideyrdr]

Sort of off the main topic, but chiming on on the recent posts...

Being a cheap bastard for everything I buy, I look at pricing like this:

MSRP > Sale pricing > Friends and Family > Cost > Below cost

Here I would say "Racer Pricing" takes the place of "Friends and Family" 'cause we ain't shopping at Best Buy.

I would HOPE to be able to get everything I need somewhere between Racer Pricing and Cost. As a new rider with very few connections, I accept it will be somewhere on the upper end. If I can get sponsorship from a vendor, I would hope it moves down closer to cost, depending on what value I bring.

To Oscar's point, I would hate to be the shlub paying MSRP so Racer Fast Guy gets his tires at cost (the vendor's gotta make money somehow, I get that). On the other end of the scale, I don't think I would admit to getting tires below cost - that's just bad karma!

[Clarkie]

New racers need to know they will get better sponsorship by being loyal to a vendor/company, if you chop and change products/shops/vendors don't be surprised if you don't get offered much of a discount. People have done this and believe it or not shop owners/managers/vendors talk to each other more than you might think. The motorcyle industry is small, the racing scene even smaller :wink:

[Bartman]

Brad let me put in a way you will understand or may not know, race tires have three prices and I will use my tires for example retail is 563, racer pricing which means any Joe Blow that talks to me at the track 380 and then sponsored rider price if any. There may even be several levels of sponsorship depending on the dealer and just like any other sponsorship it can be based on many different things, for me the most important is building a relationship over time and it more important to me that you send me buisness than how fast you are on my product no matter what it is.
I had a racer that I sponsored back in the day that said his job was just to go fast not rep the buisness and he could not have been more wrong. That is your primary job as a sponsored rider is to rep your sponsor, running at the front helps but not is everything.

[vort3xr6]

Brad let me put in a way you will understand or may not know, race tires have three prices and I will use my tires for example retail is 563, racer pricing which means any Joe Blow that talks to me at the track 380 and then sponsored rider price if any. There may even be several levels of sponsorship depending on the dealer and just like any other sponsorship it can be based on many different things, for me the most important is building a relationship over time and it more important to me that you send me buisness than how fast you are on my product no matter what it is.
I had a racer that I sponsored back in the day that said his job was just to go fast not rep the buisness and he could not have been more wrong. That is your primary job as a sponsored rider is to rep your sponsor, running at the front helps but not is everything.

Thanks Bart. It is very good information to know.

[sheispoison]

I can tell you that brand loyalty and vendor loyalty goes a LONG way. I would not have the support I do without it.

[Clarkie]

I heard that Rob who is doing Pirelli this year, may only be at a few races this year if that, anyone have any update on that as the new Pirelli's for 2011 are awesome and I hope he is there to provide the great product and service he always has.

[Bartman]

Have not seen any new Rellis come threw yet Clunky and without him coming on a regular basis and contingency going out the window I don't know how many we will see.
Carl it sucked so bad to blow up you motor on the dyno, it is just one of those things I don't like to see but you pulled off a good weekend anyway.

[Clarkie]

That sucks if Pirelli riders arent getting the support they deserve, the new 200/60 slick and 200 series DOT race tire are unbelievable having worked with a rider in Utah with them. MMP (East track) has always been hard on the left side of the tire and with the new profile and compounds, which are streets ahead of the old design, I would put them up against any tire out there right now. Sure running the right pressures makes a big difference but with the new compounds they work even better than when I used them and won a race or two 8)

[gsnyder828]

We've never been much of a Pirelli club in the ten odd years I've been around - we've had up and down years and last year was great from a support level, but I had a hard time fathoming that Rob was covering travel costs, so I'm not surprised that with the changes in his business and Pirelli NA's support level that he's not able to come out so much this year.

That said, some of us are sticking with Pirelli's regardless. :wink:

[nobasin]

I heard that Rob who is doing Pirelli this year, may only be at a few races this year if that, anyone have any update on that as the new Pirelli's for 2011 are awesome and I hope he is there to provide the great product and service he always has.

I've talked with Rob a bunch, and it is likely he will only be at a race or 2 if any this year. Pirelli support at the track is being handled by Mike Applehans. I don't think there are many Pirelli riders left in the MRA but it is nice of MA to step up and help us out. With a lot of guys switching to Contis and going fast on them, it is hard to see how anybody sticks with Pirelli much longer in the MRA, especially with no contingency.

That said, Rob's support has still be excellent from afar, you just need to get tires ordered online a couple weeks in advance for each race.

Mike-

[sheispoison]

I've still been working pretty close with Rob as well. The Pirelli's are available like Mike said and service is available through Applehans. I'm pretty sad Rob isn't making it down, but at the same time, he's gotta feed the family, so I understand. If there's anything anyone needs from Lithium, let me know and I'll help with what I can.
Bart- Thanks man, I guess the trying times are what make us better racers... I hope!

[Clarkie]

That's cool Mike is taking care of the Pirelli customers, he has a lot of experience with them and wont steer people wrong 8)