250 Production Cup - How to Grid em?

[T Baggins]

Hey guys and gals...

I am putting this out there to the 250 production riders to see what their thoughts are on "how to grid" the class. My hope is that we'll do something a little more interesting than the standard "by points" as we do in the other classes... Below are some possible ideas with pros and cons associated with each. Biggest concern on inverting grids is the leaders coming thru the slower field... but I maintain that will happen anyway - just later in the race if we run "normal" gridding. It would certainly make for more exciting racing and spectating...


1) By weight Saturday / by Saturday finish position on Sunday

Grid Saturday by Weight
-Heaviest rider on the pole
-Official scale at raceday office
-Riders weigh in at pre-tech
-empty pockets / no additional weight. Shirt / Pants / Shoes only
-In the event that two riders weigh EXACTLY the same amount then the grid position will be determined by random drawing / selection in the raceday office.

I think this has potential, but is potentially difficult to execute if Rybo doesn't have pre-tech help in the raceday office.

Grid Sunday by Saturday Finishing position
- Fastest guy on Saturday gets the pole on Sunday
- Sunday only riders gridded by points behind them then order of entry

Just makes sense, right? Only question here is does it unjustly penalize riders who are only going to race with us on Sunday.


2) By Points Saturday / By Saturday Finish Position on Sunday

Grid Saturday by Inverted Points
-Lowest season points gets the pole (pre-entry only)
-Gridded by entry time after that - all late sign up's go to the back

The safety thing applies here as well. Other than that, why not?

Grid Sunday by Saturday Finishing position
- Fastest guy on Saturday gets the pole on Sunday
- Sunday only riders gridded by points behind them then order of entry

Just makes sense, right? Only question here is does it unjustly penalize riders who are only going to race with us on Sunday.


3) By Points Saturday / By Fastest practice time Sunday

Grid Saturday by Inverted Points
-Lowest season points gets the pole (pre-entry only)
-Gridded by entry time after that - all late sign up's go to the back

The safety thing applies here as well. Other than that, why not?

Grid Sunday by fastest Sunday only practice time
- Fastest in Sunday practice gets the pole
- Late arrivals to the back

Chris can sort by practice times, the only glitch here would be the rider who is actually campaigning two bikes. How do we sort out if they were on the 600 versus the 250. Luke Wuckert comes to mind as well as Mobley. Not that we wouldn't be able to sort it out, it's just that it would take some additional time and effort to do so.


4) By Fastest practice time Both Days

Grid Saturday and Sunday by fastest practice time each day.
- Fastest in practice gets the pole
- Late arrivals to the back

Maybe the safest, most fair and second easiest way to set the grid. Doesn't set the stage for excitement like the other ideas though...


5) By the standard points method

BORING, but easy for Jen to execute and most fair to the riders chasing the championship. Will allow fast guys to check out and make for mediocre spectating.

So, whaddya you guys and gals think? Please ONLY vote if you're participating in the class - but all feel free to post up ideas and comments.

[Munch]

No option for a "Le Mans start"? :lol:

[sheispoison]

I totally vote for LeMans start!

[T Baggins]

No option for a "Le Mans start"? :lol:

We definitely could... but that doesn't address still what order to line em up in... We used to do Le Mans starts back when the 125's were big grids...

[rybo]

Option #6 (proposed)

LeMans Start by lottery at tech or pre-tech (both days)

[giovannir6]

Option #6!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

badger
badger
badger
badger
badger
badger
badger
badger.....

[toptier]

I say leave it gridded by points. It's not fair just because I weigh less then others means I have to grid in the back. If people want to complain that lighter people have an advantage they should choose to race on another bike, or know that coming in to this class that they are already at a disadvantage because of their weight.

[Bueller999]

I like the weight idea but that would stick my fat ass somewhere very near the front :oops:
"Haha! look at the fat guy! :lol:

[polar x]

Nother suggestion....how about weight for Sat and fastest practice time on Sunday. No Sunday only racers get screwed and it makes for exciting starts for every sat race. Fat guys up front means turn one and two should be fun... :wink: :wink:

So I like opt 1 mixed with opt 3...anychance that could be opt 6 ?? That would be my vote.

[random hero]

I think you should grid the slowest riders @ the front.. these bikes don't have insane closing speed, and the fastest guys have plenty of time to get by the slow/fat people.... I say grid it by times Sat, slowest on pole etc, and then Sunday grid by reverse results: last place on pole. There are some seriously fast guys in the class, it might make the slower folks feel good about themselves for one of two corners.

Or just do whatever is the most difficult for Jen... option 7, and my vote :lol:

[polar x]

I say leave it gridded by points. It's not fair just because I weigh less then others means I have to grid in the back. If people want to complain that lighter people have an advantage they should choose to race on another bike, or know that coming in to this class that they are already at a disadvantage because of their weight.

Who's complaining....lets talk about the fun and excitement for the starts weaving through the group and bonsai's into turn 1 and 2. SWEET!!!!

If your fast, it wont matter as you will cut through the group quickly, if your slow, it wont matter as you will get passed quickly anyway and if your half way fast then it will be a little more competition to play with and dice it up. And I thought the point was to make it close and fun racing.

[jmaher]

I am not voting since I am not racing in the class. But my question is, if you do a Le Mans start, will the girth challenged also get a head start?

Joe

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

Grid Saturday by Weight
-Heaviest rider on the pole
-Official scale at raceday office
-Riders weigh in at pre-tech
-empty pockets / no additional weight. Shirt / Pants / Shoes only
I like the weigh in. Maybe see if the Byers General Store will host a "pounds for the pole" Friday evening all-you-can-eat BBQ.


-In the event that two riders weigh EXACTLY the same amount then the grid position will be determined by random drawing / selection in the raceday office.

Or Rochambeau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock-paper-scissors) for it.

[racer96]

I like the weight idea since I am probably the heaviest guy in the paddock. You think a 250 will even haul my 315 pound butt around the track?

[AdamandNoahsdad]

LeMans start! Yea Baby!

I say we have everyone run at least one hundred yards to their waiting bikes. That will weed out the old, out of shape racers. Sure, maybe there will be a few heart attacks, but isn't that why there is an ambulance at the track ?

But seriously, if the races turn into a predictable train of riders in the same order every time, it will be BORING to watch. The bikes aren't fast enough to be interesting to watch if the racing isn't close. My thought is we all do everything we can to make the racing interesting and fun. Maybe we could change the gridding procedure for each round.
I don't really like the grid for sunday being determined by the finishing order on saturday. Some of us who work in the industry cannot race on saturday. I wouldn't mind seeing each day treated as a separate race day. If they are awarded points as if they are separate races they should be gridded like they are independant of each other.

If we do the LeMans start, will Adam be allowed to have his step ladder next to his bike so he can get on it? Or can one of you guys give him a boost?

[AdamandNoahsdad]

I could have the kids ride two up to even out the weight thing.
Or three up (if I can find another kid) to be even with Racer96

[Jon]

I remember a time long long ago in the MRA when one of each riders boots were removed and thrown into a pile. The signal was given for the beginning of the race and the different riders searched through the pile, found and put on there boot and than the race began. Though I'm not in it, how about a return to this?

[TRK]

Option one with a running start. I voted one, but wanted a running start as well :shock:

[HAMMER]

It is a " race" and some people are taking it seriously. It really doesnt seem to fair griding by weight. Even tho I'm not the lightest ( I would probably. Be somewhere in the rear. ) not to say It wouldn't be fun dicing thru the fattys. If there is a good group of guys playing for the front it might get kinda sketchy goin through traffic. I don't think there will be a shortage of battles regardless ... I say just do it normal and keep it simple.

[The GECCO]

It is a " race" and some people are taking it seriously. It really doesnt seem to fair griding by weight. Even tho I'm not the lightest ( I would probably. Be somewhere in the rear. ) not to say It wouldn't be fun dicing thru the fattys. If there is a good group of guys playing for the front it might get kinda sketchy goin through traffic. I don't think there will be a shortage of battles regardless ... I say just do it normal and keep it simple.

Could someone check the weather report in Hell? I'm actually agreeing with Hammer, so I'm worried about other cosmically unlikely events :lol:

But, yes, why make it a gimmick? We've done gimmick stuff for one-time events that were more for fun anyway (the start Jon is referring to was for the first multi-hour endurance race when there was only a handful of teams entered). I can see doing the LeMans start or something like that, but the grid positions should be earned just like any other class. My $.02

[Bartman]

I also don't think we should make light of this class and lets not kid ourselves the racing will be the same as all the classes, the fast will be in the front the midpackers in the middle and the slower in the back. Inverting the grids will most likely break up the racing packs and make the ensuing laps more boring. Anybody that really thinks a spec class will make the difference as to where they finish is kidding themselves, bike is 20% rider is 80%. Not racing it but I would say leave it be.

[HAMMER]

I think it will piss more people off getting blown by in the first few corners by the fast guys trying to get to the front, than the glory of starting in the front row .... I for one will not be just "laxing" my way up there . Ill do what it takes .. I remember as a novice getting passed very close and it did sort of scare me at first and I know that some guys will not be very considerete of slower people when it comes to the big W ...... schramy has passed me so close my logos ended up on his bike. :shock:


But I don't mind ... some will

[mkdiehl]

I agree with Hammer...there are a fair number of us novices in this class. I know I would rather worry about catching the guy in front of me than worry about 10 guys faster than me getting around me.

I know it's their responsibility to get around and that I should just hold my line and worry about myself, but there is still that thought in the back of your mind that someone is coming and is much faster than you.....

I do applaud the effort to add some variance but maybe after a couple of races when us newbies get our feet wet?

[toptier]

I didn't buy a ninjette to race in a gimmick or a spectacle race. I bought one to race in a spec class.

[dragos13]

Personally I think its unfair to penalize someone because of their physical size. Just because someone is the lightest person on the grid doesn't mean they are the fastest. Someone could weigh 200lbs and be an expert racer with 250 experience where another rider could weigh 120lbs and be brand new to the sport. Why should the heavy guy get the advantage. I'm not racing the class but I say grid by points on both days like we would any other class. I do vote for staggered grids too 8)

[rybo]

"I say grid by points on both days like we would any other class."

"I bought a 250 to go spec racing not spectacle racing"

"It's a real race, don't make it something other than that"

OK, what about gridding by fastest practice times (AKA qualifying) then? This way the fast riders who might only be able to come on Sunday can earn a top grid position?


I do vote for staggered grids too 8)

Oh noes you didn't!

[Bueller999]

I voted 3 but I don't think the grid should be inverted. Mostly for the safety aspect. As Hammer stated, the fastest guys will be taking this as serious as any other race, and will doing what it takes to get up front. Since this is going to be a mixed field of expert and novice riders, trading paint in turn 1-2 doesn't sound like a good time.

I do not take the racing as serious as some will, I am realistic about my abilities, and hope for decent finishes and consistency, but realize a pole position will not help me win a race.

[T Baggins]

Two things:

1) The opinions of the people riding in the class are the ones that really matter imo. Maybe we need to discuss this offline?

2) To be clear, I'm not considering the 250 class to be a joke or novelty class... I'm just trying to make it more interesting to the participants AND spectators.

The top guys are gonna be at least 6-10 seconds a lap faster than the middle guys and 20+ seconds faster than the bottom guys... having them work their way thru an inverted grid would make for more exciting racing and better spectating...

If simply running it as a Spec Class is good enough for everyone, then so be it.

That said, if we're not to do anything creative - I do like the idea of gridding by practice times both days - so that the guys who can only do one day or the other aren't consistently set at the back.

[HAMMER]

Times would be awesome too... :D

[jmart]

I do like the creativity that Tony is proposing. I’m running this class for the huge grins and the close racing it should create. It’s a hoot pushing these machines to the point of rearsets dragging and not stressing about the bike high siding you to the moon. I know that I may be in the minority, but running this class with some creativity will be a blast. I vote for LeMans start! Or maybe a hotdog eating contest on Friday evening to determine the grid for the w/e? Ok, bad idea.

Now, I realize some are focusing on the 250 Cup as their principal race, so please don’t interpret this as an attempt to undermine the integrity of the class. When and if, RORU goes SPEC, than it’ll be game time! :roll: :lol:

Jessie

[Bueller999]

1) The opinions of the people riding in the class are the ones that really matter imo. Maybe we need to discuss this offline?








So, whaddya you guys and gals think? Please ONLY vote if you're participating in the class - but all feel free to post up ideas and comments.

You kinda opened the discussion to all, but yes I would like to know if the voting is actually participants.

[toptier]

I would go for practice times on both days.

[WSMC800]

I would be really cautious about inverted starts. In my experience with these bikes, the fast guys in the back of the grid are in front by turn 2 or 3 anyway, and a dangerous situation is created as a result. The fast guys tend to be far more aggressive than the slower riders and will pass with less margin and less concern for negative outcome, because they usually have a stronger desire to win. If the first turn or two are tight, this only serves to increase the chance for something bad to happen.

I can understand the desire to create something more interesting, but in this scenario, it will be all over within a couple turns anyway.

I pushed for minimum weights at my home club at Willow Springs, but the club did not have the resources to enforce such a rule. I think this is the way to create even racing. You can't believe what a 30 pound weight advantage means on these bikes when on tighter tracks, or drag racing away from slow corners.

Anyway, just my $0.02 :) I'm dragging my Ninja Turtle up to Montana this summer, and am looking forward to mixing it up with the Colorado guys :)

[mkdiehl]

as a participant..... I vote for practice times determining grid

[mkdiehl]

as a participant..... I vote for practice times determining grid

[T Baggins]

I would be really cautious about inverted starts. Anyway, just my $0.02 :) I'm dragging my Ninja Turtle up to Montana this summer, and am looking forward to mixing it up with the Colorado guys :)

Hey Richard - welcome to the fray!

For the rest of you guys, Richard is the one who set us up with the initial stable of bikes which has now turned into a big and constantly growing grid!

What I had thought about, relative to the inverted grid, was that we'd use "the entire grid" to line people up, so from Row 1 all the way back to Row 26... - so maybe a bike a row or whatever it worked out to be. The guys in row 26 wouldn't get to the front till turn 4 or so.... lol

I dunno, maybe I'm trying too hard to create parity and excitement in a class which should already be very competitive and exciting.

We did talk about minimum weights, but the bigger issue was "what the ballast would be made of, how it would be attached, and any liability surrounding the implementation of such a rule."

[Bueller999]

I definitely appreciate the effort to add something fun to the class but the pack will seperate by the first lap into the smaller groups that will provide the really close entertaining racing anyway. I had the most fun last year trying to finish "not last".

[The GECCO]

Two things:

1) The opinions of the people riding in the class are the ones that really matter imo. Maybe we need to discuss this offline?
Be careful with that, none of the other classes have had the opportunity to have private discussions regarding how to grid or anything else, those decisions have always been made by the club as a whole, regardless of who participates.


The top guys are gonna be at least 6-10 seconds a lap faster than the middle guys and 20+ seconds faster than the bottom guys.
You're describing nearly every class in the MRA, this one is not special in this regard.


I dunno, maybe I'm trying too hard to create parity and excitement in a class which should already be very competitive and exciting.
Honestly, I think you are. I appreciate the desire for creative thinking to improve the MRA's "product", but my opinion is that this particular idea is trying to reinvent the wheel. Grid it by points just like everyone else (except RoR) and move on to focusing your energies on the next project.

My $.02

[T Baggins]

killjoy. ^^^^^^^ :wink:

[phildrummond]

While my opinion weights little, as I'm not racing it, as a spectator, I want to see something a but more exciting on the start than a 250 4-poker can provide. So, I'm not sure if I'm playing in the sandbox with El Presidente or Killjoy here. I think you have to introduce something like this prior to the rulebook posting, and you have to give each class a chance to create the circus they want for themselves.

Shunning the rulebook, and to keep the starts interesting, how about we call it Option #16 (you're welcome Tony). A hybrid of sorts:

1. Le Mans start for sure - Remote starters illegal, but good thinking.
2. Grid by fastest lap of the race day prior. It's fair to Sunday-only racers. If someone races faster on Saturday, the Sunday fast guy from race weekend prior gets bumped.
3. Fat guys grid by prior race times like everyone else, but we affix their weights on their leathers with pink duck tape from Grubbs so we can mock them.
4. Tony gets a head start.
5. Hammer gets a fine. No matter what. He just gets a fine.
6. Announcer wears a satin Ring Leader's outfit and tall hat while announcing just the spec race. On stilts will be best.

It could work, yes?

[Jon]

My apologies for my earlier comment as it was meant to be a play on the old school ways things used to be done. That said I believe the class is going to be a blast and great racing for all out there so please forgive me when I'm front row center when the race comes up.
Be fast but be safe!

[polar x]

I don't see anything wrong with trying to spice it up and make some changes to a new class that is really not like any of the others. whats wrong with trying something new (le-mans starts suck ass) and finagling it each time to see what works?

Why do we have to be sticks in the mud and so damn adverse to change :roll:

[oldtimer]

I'm not racing this class so my vote doesn't count anyway...but I agree with Kuo and Hammer, keep the gimmicks out of it. :)

That said I vote for option #2--grid by points on Sat, first race finishing position on Sunday to bring in some variables.

[polar x]

I'm not racing this class so my vote doesn't count anyway...but I agree with Kuo and Hammer, keep the gimmicks out of it. :)

That said I vote for option #2--grid by points on Sat, first race finishing position on Sunday to bring in some variables.

IF YOUR VOTE DID NOT COUNT.....WHY DID YOU VOTE :wink: :wink: :wink:

And change for the sake of change is not a gimmick. It's progress. or retardation..lol either way its trying something new. 8)

[The GECCO]

I don't see anything wrong with trying to spice it up and make some changes to a new class that is really not like any of the others. whats wrong with trying something new (le-mans starts suck ass) and finagling it each time to see what works?

Why do we have to be sticks in the mud and so damn adverse to change :roll:

How is this class "not like any of the others"? That makes no sense, Chris, really. This class deserves to be taken just as seriously as all the others, so I would say that anything that we wouldn't be willing to do in MWSB or RoR shouldn't be done in 250. That's all I'm saying.

Change is good if the intent and results are good, motion being mistaken for progress is not.

[OUTLAWD]

Lemans starts for all! :D

[polar x]

Change is good if the intent and results are good, motion being mistaken for progress is not.

The intent and results of change can not be determined until you actually have change. Hindsight is great, it allows us to see if it was a good move or a bad move.

[Geoff85]

Why does this class have to be set up any differently the any of the others? I have not seen too many inverted starts in bike racing ( slowest in the front or heavyest ) but how can that be safe? Now that we have gone to real timing systems gridding by times is by far the best way ( for all classes)if we want to make some kind of joke out of the race rather the make a good show out of the racing we should have put that info out sooner. What kind of racing rewards getting fatter rather then getting faster?
Geoff

[Jon]

An eating contest rewards getting fatter and not faster :lol:
Am such an asshole,

[T Baggins]

Hey Everyone,

So I'm annoyed right now, and will probably regret posting this... but I'm gonna anyway. :wink:

Just to clarify - we've been talking about doing "something different" with the class since we first had the idea of running it back in August/Sept of last year. Ballast was considered to meet minimum weights, among a dozen other ideas. Fat on pole, skinny at the rear was one of the very first ideas contemplated. Inverted grids was also discussed early on. There has been fully 6 months to comment on the class, so it frustrates me that now, 3 days before the race, everyone is in an uproar that we might try something different with it.

I guess my thought process was that the fast guys are gonna win no matter where we grid them - so why not make it more interesting to participate in, and watch. That would make it no less "a real race" - in fact, imo it would allow the fast guys to really show their stuff - and it would further reward riders with mad-skills and race-craft. Is safety a concern? Of course... but the slow guys are gonna get lapped by the fast guys no matter what. So the question is do you want it to happen early in the race when there is time to use discretion - or do you want it to happen in the corkscrew on the last lap in a moment of desperation?

Brewer talks about a race he saw at another club where they sent the riders off "handicapped by lap time" so that (mathematically anyway) they would ALL have an equal shot at the win. Said it was one of the most exciting races he's ever seen... I was hoping to take some of that spirit and excitement and inject it into the MRA - and the 250 class made the most sense because: A) it's new and (I thought) still malleable and B) it will have the slowest lap times and least disparity in closing speeds.

In spite of the fact that the votes show the vast majority of people would prefer "something different" over the standard gridding system of points (19 wanted something different vs. 3 who wanted standard gridding) - I guess the potential for "I told you so" is now too high, and so we should abort and remove any thing that could be considered creative or forward thinking from this discussion.

I've already taken plenty of heat for the 250 class as it is - "for forcing it on the MRA" and "It's a conflict of interest because I stand to benefit financially from the creation of the class" (wtf ????? - I took all the financial risk, went to California and picked up all of the bikes on my own dime, and sold them for exactly what I paid for them...) Not one of my better investments for sure. I guess I'd rather not also be blamed for an incident on track which could be attributed to creative gridding (instead of rider error or aggression, which would be the real cause).

The 250 cup has the HIGHEST overall pre-entry of all the classes (33 entries) - and 250's make up almost 20% of the total race entries for this weekend. Something like 13 of the 20 or so participants are either "new members" or "returning members" who had left the club. Further, these bikes are ALL new to Colorado racing so our shops and class sponsors have enjoyed the revenue generated from bike sales, parts sales and bike set-up. Colorado Class would be canceled if not for the 250's, and LWGP has 24 entries this weekend. Say what you want, but 250 Production Cup is a success and hasn't even seen a single lap of competition yet.

My suggestion, at this point, is that we vote at the riders meeting on Saturday with these options:

1) By Points

2) By practice times

By practice times would be more inviting (less discouraging?) to people who can only participate one of the two days, or people who travel to race with us. And the bikes are slow enough, that it would be unlikely that it would interfere with other people who are simply "practicing".

If the members would like to bring additional ideas to the vote, they are welcome to suggest them. I will abstain regardless.

:?

[Mforza]

Ok, i'm not racing this class but if you guys are concerned about safety and the grids being fair to everyone then start the race the Isle of Man style. :D
Each rider 5s appart. Then score the race after finish by time. That way it will be fair to all and you do not need the grids :D
Sorry, I just had to poke :D

[Geoff85]

Seems like the best solution. That's why he's the Pres!
To go back a bit the ballast Idea works if the bike and rider are combined, the issue becomes if a rider is extra heavy then it becomes impossible to lighten the bike within the rules or if light over ballasting up the bike be- comes dangerous.
Sorry for jumping in in the last three days I didn't see that "sticky" hiding up there.

[dragos13]

What about the guys that sandbag practice?

Would it be possible to grid (after the first race) by race times instead?

[Geoff85]

I don't think the grid would be reversed? If you sandbag practice your in the back right.

[phildrummond]

I think something different is a great idea. It's going to be a premier class, IMO, with regard to spectator interest and a "let's see what happens" vibe. I say go for as much change as you can get away with and the rulebook will allow. A LeMans start might be the tipping point that has me shopping for a 250 and it will sure as Hell have me on pit wall watching.

And for those not in the know - Tony is the president that orchestrated the final hit on Bin Laden. That's why he's the pres.

[dragos13]

I don't think the grid would be reversed? If you sandbag practice your in the back right.

Oh good point. So then its pretty much like qualifying for 250's. I definitely support qualifying ;)

[mkdiehl]

+1 for qualifying.

Tony has some good points. Geoff and I are two "returning memebers" among others and I can tell you there is about $6,000 from my bank account spread out around the area that wasn't planned on a year ago.

The qualifying allows those that can't make saturday (work in the industry, have sig. others that like them to be at home one day on the weekend, etc) still have a chance at a good grid spot on Sunday.

[TRK]

Go with something cool..................................

[polar x]

I SSSooooooo want to post to this, but knowing my past and how well that was recieved, I will refrain but for this......

Tony has the best interest of this CLUB and CLASS and single handedly started this class because he tried something different. Its nice to see that somethings in this club never "CHANGE"... :roll:

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

Brewer talks about a race he saw at another club where they sent the riders off "handicapped by lap time" so that (mathematically anyway) they would ALL have an equal shot at the win. Said it was one of the most exciting races he's ever seen...

That is the CRA's Framstad Cup Race and I actually got to race it when I went to BIR with Glafke & another buddy Todd. It was VERY fun and quite interesting at the end.
I found a post describing it a little as well as a "bracket" race that it seems Trackaddix have tried. From http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=19487.msg347934#msg347934


I've run this race so I can tell you exactly how it works. We've been doing it in the CRA for years in a race called the Framstad Cup. It is a race run once a year and you have to qualify for it by being the fastest from your class during a trophy dash race. Then we started doing it more because it is so much fun. Now we do Turtle and Hare which is the same concept only you don't have to qualify. Trackaddix got the idea from the Turtle and Hare, because lots of the Trackaddix instructors race with CRA, and have run this race.
You pick your laptime, and you don't want to beat it. It goes like this...
The slower laptimes are on the grid first. As you go back on the grid, the riders have faster laptimes until you get to the last bike on the grid which is the fastest laptime. The grid marshalls do the math ahead of time and calculate when to start each rider. The first bike gets a green flag then a few seconds go by then the next rider, etc. If the math was done correctly, and everyone sticks to their laptimes, on the last lap everyone is coming up to the finish line very close! It's super fun. You can have the slowest bike on the grid and still win. Everyone that runs this race loves it...it's so unpredictable.

The CRA has done an excellent job of making this work. Trackaddix is a well run organization and everyone involved with them is top notch. I'm very familiar with them. (in fact, I'll be racing in Moto St with one of them next year...depending on economy)
So, I would assume that they could pull it off as well as CRA has. It may take them a few tries to get the timing right for each track but once it's worked out, it's super fun.

Maybe we'd consider some type of "bracket" race one of these days?

[T Baggins]

Just to bring some closure to this... we gridded by practice "qualifying times" both days. This is what the riders decided in the morning on Saturday.

It worked out well and gave people who participated one day or the other equal chance to do well.

The races were a great success, and provided great excitement both for participants and for spectators.

Thanks to everyone for your commitment to making something new, exciting and fun happen!

[HAMMER]

Good riding old man ...... seriously great racing. ..... btw. Who ever it was that got together with me in turn 8 ....don't worry about it .... sh!t happens . I apologize for dipping in so aggressively on ya ....I will piece this turd back together and come play next race. Hope my knee is better .... AWESOME RACING !!!!!!!!!! .... 8)

[monument mike]

:wink: piecing my turd together as well...if my leathers get fixed & my ribs let-up to let me breath soon, I'll be back for more fun! I gotta seriously think about getting off these stock tires though...

[DUCDOC]

I almost got you Baggins during Colorado class! Not bad for not racing in 15 yrs. 2:12

[T Baggins]

I almost got you Baggins during Colorado class! Not bad for not racing in 15 yrs. 2:12

I saw you back there... but you came on WAY strong the last lap... Dominic had checked out and I was just too tired to try any harder. Another lap and you'd have gotten me for sure!

Welcome back!

[DUCDOC]

Only the second time I have ridden the bike! I know I can find 3-5 more seconds a lap out of it once I get her figure out....
Sooooo happy to be back racing again! :D

[slo lee]

Here's a link that compares pro riders who are heavier to those who are lighter and asking who has more victories on the circuit. Interesting. http://www.motomatters.com/analysis/2011/04/13/number_crunching_how_much_of_a_factor_is.html