PDA

View Full Version : Down shifting while braking



McLovin
April 11th, 2011, 08:13 AM
I found I had some difficulty downshifting (blipping the throttle) while maintaining even pressure on the front brake. While attemping the throttle blip, in order to match the rpm of the downshift gear, I would sometimes pull a bit harder on front brake at that particular moment. I have stock lever and throttle. I played with the hand position a bit (wrist slightly up to allow for full rotation, two fingers on the lever always. I think I need longer fingers. Looking to see what others have found works for them. :)

dragos13
April 11th, 2011, 08:20 AM
What seems to work for me is using more of your thumb to do the blipping while keeping two fingers on the brake. It will take some time to get used to, but gets smooth once you have it down. If you start twisting your wrist, it will probably affect your brake pressure. Roll your thumb down instead.

Throttleroller277
April 11th, 2011, 08:27 AM
I played with the hand position a bit (wrist slightly up to allow for full rotation, two fingers on the lever always. I think I need longer fingers. Looking to see what others have found works for them. :)

I have found that using just the tips of my fingers on the Brake lever help with this problem...... you mention needing longer fingers, so I think you may have already tried this, but can you adjust your lever at the "perch", so that the lever is closer to your bar?


and.... practice, practice, practice.... keep in mind that you don't need to be on the track to practice smoothing these motions out, and training your hand to do both things at once, you can practice this while sitting on the bike in the garage or in your pit.....


Not sure if any of this helps, but I thought I'd chime in.

~Brownie

vort3xr6
April 11th, 2011, 10:58 AM
[quote=McLovin]

and.... practice, practice, practice.... keep in mind that you don't need to be on the track to practice smoothing these motions out...

~Brownie

Amen to that. I was blipping downshifts clipping the apex with my shopping cart last night at King Soopers.

McLovin
April 11th, 2011, 12:07 PM
I'll try all of the above...and practice too! Thanks. Keep the input coming!

McLovin
April 12th, 2011, 08:03 AM
After practicing last night and thinking about what I was doing on the track, I believe the down shift and blipping the throttle part doesn't occur during the hardest part of the braking. At some point you are hard on the brake, once you begin to soften (trailing the brake), you can then maintain a gradual lightening pressure and perform the downshifts at this moment in the braking cycle.

Say you have 100% pressure on the brake, down shift is difficult at this point cause you are concentrating on braking hard, but at about 65% pressure, you can get in the downshifts.

Trying to downshift while pulling hard on the brakes, caused me to pogo the front end. I believe it's mostly a timing issue....

jbnwc
April 12th, 2011, 08:32 AM
Jason Pridmore does things his own way, but you might like it. I personally think it makes things easier and smoother. Here's a link to several of his downshifting clinic videos:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jason+pridmore+downshifting&aq=f

vort3xr6
April 12th, 2011, 08:45 AM
Watching Chris Fillmore downshift last year was mind blowing. He would brake real hard and bang 3 downshifts right when he threw the nose toward the apex.

I have such a hard time with this because I feel it upsets the chassis dipping into the turn.

oldtimer
April 12th, 2011, 09:56 AM
After practicing last night and thinking about what I was doing on the track, I believe the down shift and blipping the throttle part doesn't occur during the hardest part of the braking. At some point you are hard on the brake, once you begin to soften (trailing the brake), you can then maintain a gradual lightening pressure and perform the downshifts at this moment in the braking cycle.

Say you have 100% pressure on the brake, down shift is difficult at this point cause you are concentrating on braking hard, but at about 65% pressure, you can get in the downshifts.

Trying to downshift while pulling hard on the brakes, caused me to pogo the front end. I believe it's mostly a timing issue....


From what I've observed riders downshift in different ways, so keep up the practicing and find what works for you. Jason Pridmore uses engine braking to assist with getting the bike slowed, and suggests executing one downshift early then getting the other shifts completed further into the braking zone. That's how I downshift.

I'm impressed with the guys who can bang through 3 fast shifts ding-ding-ding, I struggle to get that many in a tight group.

TRK
April 12th, 2011, 08:08 PM
I can grab three quick downshifts, but I have never blipped the throttle. It is easiest for me to lightly slip the clutch........does anyone else do this?

Clarkie
April 12th, 2011, 11:43 PM
I can grab three quick downshifts, but I have never blipped the throttle. It is easiest for me to lightly slip the clutch........does anyone else do this?

Yeah but you cheat with your electronic autoshift module you got from ebay...




























I never blipped the throttle either, it's not 1985 any more so you dont need to, and that's not even talking about an OEM slipper clutch that any decent motorcycle has now days.

marty
April 13th, 2011, 01:17 AM
I can grab three quick downshifts, but I have never blipped the throttle. It is easiest for me to lightly slip the clutch........does anyone else do this?

+1

oldtimer
April 13th, 2011, 10:21 AM
I can grab three quick downshifts, but I have never blipped the throttle. It is easiest for me to lightly slip the clutch........does anyone else do this?

Christman keeps telling me I should be shifting this way but I haven't taken the time to practice it. ...sigh

JimWilson29
April 13th, 2011, 10:25 AM
I can grab three quick downshifts, but I have never blipped the throttle. It is easiest for me to lightly slip the clutch........does anyone else do this?

Christman keeps telling me I should be shifting this way but I haven't taken the time to practice it. ...sigh

Didnt Pridmore teach you to feed the clutch on downshifts instead of blipping? He's a big proponent of that.

oldtimer
April 13th, 2011, 10:33 AM
Didnt Pridmore teach you to feed the clutch on downshifts instead of blipping? He's a big proponent of that.

He does teach it and it's amazing. But I still have to practice to learn a new trick. :wink:

I've done the Pridmore two-up rides and I couldn't even feel the shifts, he matches the revs so perfectly.

Throttleroller277
April 13th, 2011, 10:36 AM
I use my hand as a slipper, more than the slipper clutch itself....

Throttleroller277
April 13th, 2011, 10:38 AM
are we talking motorcycles, or nighttime activities?.... oops. :oops: 8)

McLovin
April 13th, 2011, 10:55 AM
Two approaches to gear changing (downshifting) are developing on this thread:

1) Blipping of throttle (idea of matching downshift revs with downshifted gear rpm) for smooth transfer of power to rear wheel. i.e. no wheel hopping, etc. Was method for earlier race bikes/technology.

2) Feeding clutch on downshifts in a way as to not disrupt rearwheel traction or upset bike. This can be done on modern bikes as they can handle this demand.

Approach 2, a racer would have to focus on braking for (right hand) and feeding clutch (left hand), versus trying to brake and blip at the same time (two things for the right hand). Seems better to have each extremity, at that moment, performing one operation. Simplifies things and I believe would like to "feel" how my braking is doing and I think blipping may interfere. :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

dragos13
April 13th, 2011, 11:10 AM
What about doing both? Blipping and still feeding the clutch out a bit? I know what some guys say "smooth is fast" 8)

Throttleroller277
April 13th, 2011, 02:33 PM
What about doing both? Blipping and still feeding the clutch out a bit? I know what some guys say "smooth is fast" 8)

as in "Fast guys, have slow hands".....


I do both blip and feed/slip the clutch, but not at all corners. Sometimes I don't blip at all. Depends on the amount of gears I am dropping, end result in RPM's, maybe a fast kink like turn 3 at Hasting's, where depending on how I was geared and which bike I was on, I wouldn't brake at, just downshift, and turn it in.


Remember "everyone is different... what works for one person, may not work for the next, but both people have the same lap time"- Aaron Clark

TRK
April 13th, 2011, 11:14 PM
I have never blipped the throttle and I race ambike from the 90s still :D

davy4575
April 14th, 2011, 10:41 AM
I struggled with the timing of it for a while. Blippings is habbit for me, but I have an old bike, no slipper clutch. I was breaking and downshifting at the same time last year and that had me all fuggered up. Concentrating on the shifting rather than the breaking is helping me not spaz so much and overbreak everything. I did move my levers in at the perch. My ergos on the bike are horrible though. First funding available, im going for a set of decent clip-ons.

spideyrdr
April 14th, 2011, 11:10 AM
I struggled with the timing of it for a while. Blippings is habbit for me, but I have an old bike, no slipper clutch. I was breaking and downshifting at the same time last year and that had me all fuggered up. Concentrating on the shifting rather than the breaking is helping me not spaz so much and overbreak everything. I did move my levers in at the perch. My ergos on the bike are horrible though. First funding available, im going for a set of decent clip-ons.

I see an R6 that is for sale, Davy. It even comes with clip-ons! ;) *cough cough*

I can vouch for Davy's blipp-a-tude. He works that throttle like he's giving it a purple-nurple.

I am a non-blipper. I do have a slipper on my R6 but even on my street bikes I have always fed the clutch and have only had one or two rear tire issues (mainly when I was on the EX500).

McLovin
April 14th, 2011, 12:11 PM
I like the feedback for this thread. Seems as if some are non-blippers, some do blips when the corner calls for it and some blip and feed clutch both. A wide variety.

vort3xr6
April 14th, 2011, 01:11 PM
Blippers, hookers, feeders, ballers. I just want to RIDEEEE. This snow is depressing.

dirkterrell
April 19th, 2011, 10:39 AM
Jason Pridmore uses engine braking to assist with getting the bike slowed, and suggests executing one downshift early then getting the other shifts completed further into the braking zone. That's how I downshift.


Same here. Taking that course of his really helped me, a lot.

bluedevil
April 27th, 2011, 09:11 AM
Im a blipper and I also get my dwn shifts done early... I started on a bike with no slipper so I used to take my street bike out and just practice all day.. Every stop sign, light etc.. Id blip and grab down shifts... It really helped to get rid of that pogo effect... I have short fingers as well and use just the tips of 2 fingers..... Ive tried to break the habit of blipping since it really isnt needed on bikes with respectable slippers.... but I just cant.. so I guess Im a blippin lifer. I do use this in conjunction with feeding the clutch...I dont release 100% on the clutch till just about the apex....

Good luck !

McLovin
April 29th, 2011, 07:43 AM
Thanks bluedevil, good advice.

davy4575
May 1st, 2011, 11:05 AM
I struggled with the timing of it for a while. Blippings is habbit for me, but I have an old bike, no slipper clutch. I was breaking and downshifting at the same time last year and that had me all fuggered up. Concentrating on the shifting rather than the breaking is helping me not spaz so much and overbreak everything. I did move my levers in at the perch. My ergos on the bike are horrible though. First funding available, im going for a set of decent clip-ons.

I see an R6 that is for sale, Davy. It even comes with clip-ons! ;) *cough cough*

I can vouch for Davy's blipp-a-tude. He works that throttle like he's giving it a purple-nurple.

I am a non-blipper. I do have a slipper on my R6 but even on my street bikes I have always fed the clutch and have only had one or two rear tire issues (mainly when I was on the EX500).

I bought a set of Woodcrafts, Should have em by Saturday. Would love the R6, but cant afford. I blip cause the right arm is strong like bull from off track activities

OUTLAWD
May 2nd, 2011, 07:18 PM
Im a blipper and I also get my dwn shifts done early... I started on a bike with no slipper so I used to take my street bike out and just practice all day.. <snip>

Good luck !

+1

I am also a blipper and get my shifts done early, but this probably stems from learning/practising on a cold blooded 1000cc triple with no slipper clutch...

I may try to switch up my style a bit now that I'm on the gsxr (still no slipper), but its a little more forgiving to ride

quicknova
May 10th, 2011, 08:55 AM
I never blipped the throttle either, it's not 1985 any more so you dont need to, and that's not even talking about an OEM slipper clutch that any decent motorcycle has now days.

haha someone saying Honda is not a decent motorcycle..... [-X

Clarkie
May 10th, 2011, 10:41 AM
If you ride the Honda CBR600RR correctly, you dont need a slipper clutch to go fast :wink:
But yeah Honda needs to catch up the the 600RR clutch like they did with the 1000RR clutch.....except for the whole 1000RR clutch recall thing :D