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mc_rider_guy
September 23rd, 2010, 10:24 AM
I had a few questions for those that know tires:
Any idea how many track days or races (laps??) typical takeoffs might have left in them for a super slow novice?
Would takeoffs even be a good idea to run back on the track? (for same slow novice :)
My current Dunlop race tires feel hard as a rock. That's bad right??

Background: I've been out of the 'sportbike' world for a while. Just picked up a race ready gsxr. Looking to get on to the track some (soon and next year). The Dunlop GP tires on it have good tread but look a little discolored (from center to edges) and and seem VERY hard. Shouldn't these tires feel soft, or softer, than typical street tires? I'm trying to determine if 1) I need to toss my current tires and if so 2) buy brand new ones (and what the heck to buy) or 3) buy and run some takeoffs for now. As I mentioned I'll most likely be the slowest of the slow on the track. And money IS an issue (looking to spend as little as I HAVE to).

Appreciate any info or help anyone could provide. Thanks!

dragos13
September 23rd, 2010, 10:30 AM
I would say definitely replace the tires that are on there as you have no history on them.

Next, I think takeoffs should be fine for you. Race tires last as long as you want to ride them. Some guys pull them off after 1 sprint, while others can run 6 sprint races on the same set. Just depends on how deep your pockets are lol.

Find a reputable racer (Shane Turpin, Daltin Dimick, Jeff Brown) and buy takeoffs from them. They can tell you exactly how many laps are already on the tires. This will allow you to check out tires before committing to a brand new set.

Hotrod
September 23rd, 2010, 11:02 AM
FYI, my race tires usually feel rock hard until I have had the tire warmers on them. Then they get nice and gooey :D
Discoloration is usually the silicone compounds working their way to the surface and is no reason for alarm.
I run nothing but takeoffs and probably always will...

Sol Performance
September 23rd, 2010, 11:21 AM
Welcome to the club!!
My name is Oscar. I am the latest and newest Dunlop guy for the MRA. Hopefully I can stick around for a little bit longer than others. :)

I can take a look at your tires for you. Hard tires doesn't necessarily mean not useable. Case and point, I had a rider go out on a set of 3 year old tires this past race weekend (not from me) and do VERY well. Not saying that I am recommending it but that it's possible to do.

That being said, asking how many laps a tire can have before they are bad is a very loaded question. As well as how many heat cycles they have. There are so many dynamics to that question that it's hard to give you a truly correct answer. What justifies a "lap"? Is a cool down lap the same as a record breaking lap? Is a 4 hour endurance heat cycle the same as a tire warmer heat cycle? So the short answer is, it depends. :)

In either case, I do have some take offs that can be put on the bike for a reasonable price.

Feel free to call or text me at 720.323.6162 and we can talk about getting your tires looked at.

Thanks!
Oscar

phildrummond
September 23rd, 2010, 12:00 PM
I'm all about the take-offs. They might go 1/2 as long before you have to take them off, but they're 1/4 the price.

I'm at the back, running take-offs. I bought one new set of rubber in 2 seasons of racing and it didn't make me faster, just made me feel fancy! Also made my bunghole pucker, scrubbing them in the first lap.

But as Casey said, talk to a ride rep, a fast white plate or a tire guy.

mc_rider_guy
September 23rd, 2010, 01:30 PM
Is there a large, or worthwhile, advantage to running race takeoffs vs. some of the newer HP street tires? (again for a noob novice) Like the Sportec M3, Coras 3, etc that might last longer?

And I actually do know a little history of the current tires. Bike and tires come from a novice MRA rider who said the tires were mounted last year (2009) sometime with very few ‘laps’ on them. I was just unsure about the slight discoloration and the hardness of the tires when cold. But I’m unfamiliar with this game :)

I’ve also seen individuals and shops on, say, craigslist offering takeoffs for around $100 per set including installation. I suppose that might fall into the category of you-get-what-you-pay-for? (one shop being Vanmar) Is there a general price range you can get takeoffs for at the track? And mounted??

Thanks everyone for all the info!

dragos13
September 23rd, 2010, 01:31 PM
Is there a large, or worthwhile, advantage to running race takeoffs vs. some of the newer HP street tires? (again for a noob novice) Like the Sportec M3, Coras 3, etc that might last longer?

And I actually do know a little history of the current tires. Bike and tires come from a novice MRA rider who said the tires were mounted last year (2009) sometime with very few ‘laps’ on them. I was just unsure about the slight discoloration and the hardness of the tires when cold. But I’m unfamiliar with this game :)

I’ve also seen individuals and shops on, say, craigslist offering takeoffs for around $100 per set including installation. I suppose that might fall into the category of you-get-what-you-pay-for? (one shop being Vanmar) Is there a general price range you can get takeoffs for at the track? And mounted??

Thanks everyone for all the info!

+1 for Vanmar :)

phildrummond
September 23rd, 2010, 01:37 PM
+1 for Vanmar! $100 a set and they'll mount for free at the track. Good guys, all. They'll tell you pressures based on the track and conditions. You get what you pay for...and you're getting good tires and service with these guys.

I've even gone in to buy tires and they've sent me away, saying I've got plenty of rubber left.

Sol Performance
September 23rd, 2010, 02:45 PM
1. Street tires do have a harder compound to them. They don't however have the same amount of grip.

Race tires will always go through a corner at a faster speed then any street tire out there. Race tires do cost more and don't last as long. If you are a fast rider then you will always have a faster lap time on a race tire rather than a street tire. If you are slower guy then you actually won't notice the difference too much.


2. A Dunlop GP tire from last year will still be fine for a slower rider. Like I said before, I had a rider go out on 3 year old tires and put down so very fast times. You can send me a picture of the tire and I can tell you what I think of it if you like.

3. Price run down for tires AT THE TRACK: (this is just from my perspective as well)

-take offs can be found from $50 all the way to $200 for a set.
-It's not always on a "you get what you pay for" basis. I have about 100 take offs at my shop. (I charge $75-$150 just because there is no way that I am going to use all the take offs and I would rather just get them out the door for a good price) The dealer usually will mount them for free when you buy it from them.
- If you don't buy them from them then it's a small charge per wheel to mount and balance. That's just to cover the expenses.. Weight, tape etc. and of course for labor and time.

I can see that you are apprehensive about tires and need to understand them before you are going to spend your money on something you don't know much about.

My advice would be to either stay on take offs or get very grippy street tires to go around the track on for a couple of track days. Your main concern right now is learning the basics and to learn how to get around the track. Once you start getting faster then start working on tuning the bike and adding things to it to go faster, including the tires.
If not, you will be wasting money on a good tire that you are not taking full advantage of.

There is a wide spectrum of tire choices too. Here is all that is usually offerd:

Take offs
street tires
track day tires
Full race tires

This goes from lowest price to highest.

So.. depending on what your goal is and what you plan to is how you approach what tires to buy next.

Everything beside the street tires will get worn pretty fast on the street SO if you plan to still ride street I would either do street tires or take offs because the cost is not very great.

If it's a track only bike then I would burn up you take offs now and then either get more take offs or start at the track days tires and go up from there.



So that's quite a lot of information. haha. Of course, this is just my perspective and what I know. I hope I answered your questions that you had. Please let me know if you have any other questions!!

davy4575
September 24th, 2010, 01:03 AM
Brownie's take-offs smell like beer when they get warm. (Just Kiddin).
Im slow as well, Ive had good luck with take-offs, its all I run. Its a good way to get know reps and racers and gain alot of valuable information. Also, you get to experience diferent tires and brands and see what works for you and what dosnt. Granted, Id love to have enough coin to get new tires, but Id rather see my money going to the club and racing first, and as a slower guy, its not critical at this point.

OUTLAWD
September 24th, 2010, 08:44 AM
Brownie's take-offs smell like tequila when they get warm. (Just Kiddin).


fixed :)

As far as sticky street tires vs race tires goes, I'd probably stick with the race tires. I am also a slow novice, at the beginning of this season I was on soft street tires, and the tires seemed to be all over the place, slipping in parts of the track that I totally didn't expect. Also, as far as them lasting longer, I would have to disagree.

The harder rubber, with a higher silicone content, does not actually hold up to track riding better, and may be operating out of its ideal temperature range. And even if you are slow on the track, your tires are still working harder than they would on the street. I would have street tires last 2-3 trackdays, while my first new set of race rubber I bought at the second round in May (yes, I felt fancy), has lasted me numerous track days and endurance races, and the rear will finally need to be replaced this last race at HPR

spideyrdr
September 24th, 2010, 09:41 AM
Just to throw this out there...

If one were to run race tires vs. street tires, would you be looking at tire warmers?

I've considered it unnecessary, and in fact maybe a bad idea to use warmers on something like the Dunlop Q2's since they will warm up relatively quickly at novice speeds. But race tires should be put on warmers regardless. Thoughts anyone?

dragos13
September 24th, 2010, 09:55 AM
Just to throw this out there...

If one were to run race tires vs. street tires, would you be looking at tire warmers?

I've considered it unnecessary, and in fact maybe a bad idea to use warmers on something like the Dunlop Q2's since they will warm up relatively quickly at novice speeds. But race tires should be put on warmers regardless. Thoughts anyone?

I usually don't use warmers on practice days. They do help with heat cycles. Definitely needed on race days. On practice days, I just take a lap or two to warm up the tires.