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View Full Version : Body Position??? WARNING: Long Winded



OUTLAWD
August 12th, 2010, 07:59 AM
I know that body position is a personal preference sort of thing, depending on bike, size, and what the rider is comfortable with. I guess I just want to get a wider variety of opinions on this because I have been getting some contradicting advice.

I have been pretty surprised with how much my body positioning and riding has "improved" since I started doing trackdays last year. I used to be very "crossed up" and have been trying to focus on getting my upper body lower. This had seemed to be working, as I stopped dragging my knee and I am carrying way more corner speed.

At the MRA race school earlier in the year, one of the instructors told me to "get my ass off the seat more, or I was going to low-side"...So I have been doing the 1 cheek on, 1 cheek off (although it is hard to really tell with the stock mushy seat) thing while still being able to keep my upper body reasonably low.

Fast forward to the other weekend, where I attended a school that focuses on Skills and Techniques for Advanced Riding...After a few sessions I get pulled aside by an instructor, and he tells me that I am hanging off the bike way too much, that it is going to tire me out quickly and it is going to cause me to lowside.

His reasoning was that on corner entry, the further off the bike you are, the less feel and control you have over the front end, and the less chance for recovery you are giving yourself in the event that you start to lose the front. Said instructor then showed some video from that session that he was taking, pointing out my horrible form hanging off way too far and another rider, who was considerably crossed up IMO, with his butt off to one side, and his helmet off to the other, and the instructor commended him on his perfect body position. When I tried to ask a question about this, I kind of got ignored. I did what the instructor suggested, and found myself feeling like I was going to lose it due to the bike being leaned a considerable amount more, I guess that is just a confidence issue I am having.

Now I realize that I am hanging off a but much relative to the speed I am going, as I can look at pictures of myself and others in the same corner and my bike is not leaned nearly as much. I can also see that with my knee either on the ground, or damn close, there is a distance of 2-3 inches between the ground and my toe. This says to me that I have plenty of lean angle left...or am I hanging off too much...

Also, as far as weighting the pegs is concerned. Right now I find most of my weight on my inside peg, and outside knee against the tank, with my outside arm sort of resting on the tank. Some people were talking of weighting the outside peg when driving out of corners to help stand the bike up. I always tried to get my upper body lower on the exits to try to stand the bike up more. With how my outside foot is situated, I can't imagine how the heck I could get any weight transfered to the outside peg.

One more thing that has me thinking. Going into a corner, I am braking and downshifting while still "centered" then moving my body and turning in. This is not smooth, and I know it. I was trying to rotate my lower body, then brake and shift, but it was a bit awkward to get under the shifter.

From what I have been gathering from instructors and watching faster people ride, I am thinking the "correct" way to execute a corner would be to, move lower body, brake/shift, then turn in and looking throught the corner will force your upper body down, then as you are rolling on the throttle, try to get your upper body lower forcing the bike up.

I am really just waiting for someone to tell me something that brings me to some sort of epiphany, where my riding will all of a sudden get smoother, but for some reason I imagine its going to be a bit more complicated than that :wink:

I look forward to any insight you can provide...

Thanks!

dragos13
August 12th, 2010, 08:13 AM
Hey Dave, when will you be at the track next?

You have the right idea about moving off the bike BEFORE you begin braking. Your ass should be slid over while still on the gas. Pop out of the bubble with your body already shifted towards the inside of the corner. Drop your head and try to get your elbow to the ground.

Weighting pegs depends on the corner. Coming into the chicane at HPR, I weight the inside peg to get the bike to turn quicker. Coming into turn 1, I weight the outside peg when braking to help control rear end slide. I also weight the outside peg when driving out to help the bike stand up. As turpin will tell you, you have to take away lean angle in order to increase throttle.

Some riders will try to slide their entire ass off the seat just to get a knee down. Personally, I barely touch my knees on the ground and use it more of a gauge to understand how far I'm leaning over. When I have my knee pulled in against the bike and it still touches the ground, I know I'm close to my max lean angle.

When you look at pictures and see yourself with "less lean angle" then other riders, then you are doing something right. Less lean angle means more contact on the tire, thus more possible corner speed.

I would be happy to help you at the next Chicane Trackday or the race weekend. We can cover alot in the pits, then head out and apply it on the track.

Throttleroller277
August 12th, 2010, 08:14 AM
Now I realize that I am hanging off a but much relative to the speed I am going, as I can look at pictures of myself and others in the same corner and my bike is not leaned nearly as much. I can also see that with my knee either on the ground, or damn close, there is a distance of 2-3 inches between the ground and my toe. This says to me that I have plenty of lean angle left...or am I hanging off too much...

Also, as far as weighting the pegs is concerned. Right now I find most of my weight on my inside peg, and outside knee against the tank, with my outside arm sort of resting on the tank. Some people were talking of weighting the outside peg when driving out of corners to help stand the bike up. I always tried to get my upper body lower on the exits to try to stand the bike up more. With how my outside foot is situated, I can't imagine how the heck I could get any weight transfered to the outside peg.

Thanks!

Sounds like you have it figured out to me.........

and maybe that is why no one else has replied?........

Do try to weight the outside peg too.

OUTLAWD
August 12th, 2010, 08:20 AM
Thanks guys...

Casey, I'll try to hit you up at Chicane

dragos13
August 12th, 2010, 08:22 AM
Definitely find me at the Chicane day and I will help you out for sure. I will try and bring my camera too so we can get some video footage. You will be amazed at what you can learn from a camera behind you when it comes to smooth body movement, rushing corners, etc.

I'm no expert, I just try to copy the fast guys ;) Brownie is the guy that got me started with body position at my first Pueblo trackday. I practice what he taught me that day EVERY time I'm on a bike!

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs631.snc3/31682_1305456281004_1368441845_30690944_4203256_n. jpg

Throttleroller277
August 12th, 2010, 08:25 AM
If Dragos is not available, I would be more than willing to give you a hand, and ride with you as well. 8)

vort3xr6
August 12th, 2010, 01:17 PM
What is crazy to me is watching Galster or Demick fly through turn 2 @ HPR.

I feel I am roughly the same lean angle. My toe usually drags in that corner and that tells me I have about a half inch before hard parts start hitting. I actually drug my bodywork last round.

HOWEVER, those guys carry at least twice the corner speed through that corner? Baffles me. Once I get some cash together I am recruiting Turpin or Orlando, or even Galster for some pointers. Turns out this whole racing thing is kind of expensive.