Rule change suggestions for 2010

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

Here's a basenote for suggesting rule changes for the 2010 season.

A couple of guidelines

1) Please state the current rule that you wish to change. If you're suggesting an addition, state the section / subsection in the rulebook where it would go.

2) PLEASE *PLEASE* don't drift off on discussions, arguments, or comedy on this basenote. If you want to do any of those for a particular suggestion, PLEASE start a new basenote for it.

3) I'll post the dates for suggestions, the committee meeting, and ratification in another basenote.

You can always PM me or Ray-Ray with any questions ..

[marty]

this would be totally self serving but here goes.

6.2.6 Miscellaneous Motorcycle Requirements
B. All exhaust retaining springs safety wired.

i would like to propose we do away with this rule or make it voluntary. i know on at least my 250, there is no way to actually secure the spring to the bike. all i can do is wire the pipe to the manifold. i have seen a few aftermarket pipes for the 4 strokes that have the same type of spring. i realize it is an attempt to keep debris off the track, which i am in favor of, but it seems in some cases the springs won't allow it. at a minimum, it is one less thing for ray to get stabbed from checking :lol:

[chrobis]

Go get yourself a beverage and please, before you light your torch - read this again. My goal is to get us to consider a possible vehicle for growing our ranks. Okay, flame on.

Synopsis: Creation of a new Beginner class intended to entice fence-sitters into our world. It will address three primary issues (all discussed on the Colorado Sport Bike forums http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=33592 - thanks, Jeff): cost, rider/bike preparation, and competitiveness. Compeititveness will be managed by limiting the duration of eligibility in the class, either one calendar year from first competition or one season only. Preparation concerns from the point of view of the Beginner will be addressed by relaxing the rules to Track Day standards. Cost: in keeping with Peter Egan's oft quoted line and The Beginner's Guide to Addiction Promotion, let's make the Beginner races FREE, yes, FREE! (or really cheap, if free is too much of a stretch, but remember that this is more a recruitment than a profit making concept, and it is time limited. Hell, some could argue that it would be to our advantage to PAY people to try it, just once :wink: ).

These changes would allow beginners at least one dedicated race per weekend, with at most four races if they and their bike meet Novice standards. I'm envisioning an endurance format race (maybe only 15 or 20 minutes long) at the end of Saturday, preceded by a Beginner only practice, (maybe allow sponsoring racers to pace'em?), both of which would take place after the Heavyweight / Open endurance race. (We would probably have a Beginner's rider meeting just before practice; maybe also a Beginner-only tech.) This would give us a lot of time if the worst case scenario - a track-day prepped bike oils the track - hits. (Blow-ups happen; we can get over this.) To make this feasible, a couple two-three of the Saturday sprint races might be relocated to Sunday. Maybe we limit these Beginner races to once per year per venue? Worst case we run them at the end of Sunday. Remember this is a recruitment exercise...

An AMA license would be required. A limited MRA Beginner license may be advisable in order to qualify Beginner-only racers, since I am suggesting that we relax the Novice 'approved racing school' requirement, replacing it with some sort of 'vouching' system instead (see my 4.1.C).

This class could give us, individually - as club members, the opportunity to sponser Beginners. Admittedly, my bike is going on 13 years old, but I'd be willing to let a Beginner use it if the Track Day bike prep rule is deemed too permissive.)

Being a new class, there aren't many rules that would be changed, rather new rules would be added. Okay, here is my official proposal:


Section 1 – RACE CLASS LIST

(new) Beginner: held, (with Beginner-only practice), after all Novice, Amateur, and Expert races have been completed on a race day (or weekend). Grid position will be determined randomly (or FIFO, i.e., by arrival at pregrid after 1st call?)

Section 2 – RACE CLASS DEFINITIONS

2.1 Sprint class general guidelines

2.1.I. Only first-calendar-year (/ first-season racers) may enter Beginner classes.

2.9 Beginner class

The beginner class is a class for first year racers. There are no end of season trophies awarded for this class, (but there may be race day trophies - I'll pony up right now for the first one).

2.9.A. Unlimited displacement, modifications, and engine configurations.

4.1 Beginner definition (this will bump all of the other class definition numbers, i.e., 4.x , up by 1).

4.1.A. Racers are eligible for Beginner races for no more than one calendar year from their first Beginner, Novice, or Amateur race. ('one season' could be substituted for 'one calendar year'.)

4.1.B. There is no community service requirement for racers who compete only in Beginner races. Beginners whose primary classification is 'Novice' must comply with the community service requirements of (old) 4.1.A. (Remember, we're still sucking them in...let them think that the're conning us.)

4.1.C. Beginner-only racers must obtain a written recommendation by an MRA-approved track day organizer or instructor.

4.1.D. Only Beginners may race in classes designated as Beginner.

4.1.E. Beginner racers may also hold Novice classification, in which case their primary classification will be Novice.

4.1.F. Beginner racers whose primary classification is 'Novice' may compete in Novice and Amateur classes.

4.1.F. Beginner-only racers may not race in Novice, Amateur, or Expert classes.

4.1.H. Beginners may not practice in Novice sessions unless their primary classification is 'Novice'.

4.1.I. Beginners who are not also Novices will display red numbers on yellow number plates.

4.1.J. Bike prep for Beginner races will mimic the track day requirments of the track where the event is being held.

4.1.K. Beginner practice and races will be held at the end of race day, after all Novice, Amateur, and Expert races have been completed.

4.5 Beginner to Novice advancement process (current 4.5 becomes 4.7)

Advancement from Beginner to Novice occurs when the following requirement has been met:

4.5.A The racer meets Novice competency and equipment requirements and chooses to relinquish Beginner-only status.

4.6 Beginner Expiration

Racers will lose eligibility in the Beginner class when any of the following transpire:

4.6.A. One calendar year has elapsed since entry into their first Beginner race. (This allows someone to start as a Begnner at the end of one season and continue into the next season; could also be limited to a single season.)

4.6.B. The racer's inclusion in the Beginner class is deemed to be counter-productive by the New Rider Director.

In Conclusion:

What I am proposing amounts to a controlled exception to the club's safety and eligibility regulations. I believe that the one additional race that I am proposing - with a dedictated practiice session - could be implemented within no more that one clock hour. (Unknown man-hours would be consumed by teching Beginners.)

[rybo]

Propose Class Changes to allow more novice classes in the 2010 season:

Keep existing novice only classes
Keep existing amateur classes

Add as a second wave to the following classes novice versions of the same:

Middleweight Supersport (novice)
Middleweight Superbike (novice)
Heavyweight Supersport (novice)
Heavyweight Superbike (novice)
Open Supersport (novice)
Open Superbike (novice)

impact is 0 added time to the schedule, and six more classes that novices can participate in.

It does not affect manufacturer contingency for these programs as they would be run as a separate class in the second wave

It exposes more novices to our expert level racers and classes

[rybo]

Production Class Racing (amateur)

Propose 2 new categories:

Middleweight Production
Open Production

MIDDLEWEIGHT PRODUCTION
Up to 600cc four cylinder
Up to 750cc two or three cylinder
Up to 904cc, two cylinder, four stroke, two valves per cylinder, air cooled
Unlimited displacement pushrod, two cylinder, four stroke, two valves per
cylinder, air cooled

OPEN PRODUCTION
Unlimited displacement

Supersport motorcycles must meet the following requirements in addition to the requirements in Section 5 - Technical and Safety Requirements.

The intent of this class is to reduce the ongoing costs of racing and bring close competition. As such only minimal modifications may be made to the motorcycle with the intention of making it track worthy. In the production class the stock ECU, Airbox, Air Filter and Exhaust system must remain in place.

For production class racing only the following modifications may be made. No other changes/modifications are allowed:

1)Bodywork may be changed for plastic or fiberglass bodywork of similar appearance and dimensions to the stock body. Aftermarket ram air tubes and windscreens are permitted.

2)Case covers may be replaced with reinforced covers for the purpose of fluid retention

3)Hand and foot controls may be changed, but the stock master cylinder(s) must be used

4)Insturment/fairing brackets may be changed

5)Forks must use stock external tubes. Internals (springs, valves, oil) may be changed

6)The rear shock may be changed to a commercially available aftermarket unit. The linkage must remain stock

7)Brake pads and brake lines may be changed.

8)Fluids may be changed

9)Tires must be a brand / model that is available to all racers throughout the season. Rain tires will be allowed.



This is NOT an attempt to create a new "sportsman" like class, but rather to have machinery that is leveled in ability even more than the current supersport bikes.

[rybo]

from Tim Crump's suggestion last year after the rule change process had closed. I've copied and pasted this directly from his post last year.

E. Any novice racer who finishes in the top 10 in overall points in either Novice GTU or Novice GTO will be ineligible to compete as a Novice in the future unless they do not race for 3 or more seasons and are subject to the requirements
of 4.3.C.

I would like to suggest that this rule be amended to include Am U, Am O and any endurance classes.
If we force a top ten Novice to move to expert, how can we not hold a novice finishing top ten in an Am class to the same standards. I would think that it would be more difficult to finish top ten with experts mixed in.

[T Baggins]

Propose Class Changes to allow more novice classes in the 2010 season:

Keep existing novice only classes
Keep existing amateur classes

Add as a second wave to the following classes novice versions of the same:

Middleweight Supersport (novice)
Middleweight Superbike (novice)
Open Supersport (novice)
Open Superbike (novice)

impact is 0 added time to the schedule, and four more classes that novices can participate in.

It does not affect manufacturer contingency for these programs as they would be run as a separate class in the second wave

It exposes more novices to our expert level racers and classes

Why not also add Heavyweight SS & SB (Novice??)

[rybo]

Propose Class Changes to allow more novice classes in the 2010 season:

Keep existing novice only classes
Keep existing amateur classes

Add as a second wave to the following classes novice versions of the same:

Middleweight Supersport (novice)
Middleweight Superbike (novice)
Open Supersport (novice)
Open Superbike (novice)

impact is 0 added time to the schedule, and four more classes that novices can participate in.

It does not affect manufacturer contingency for these programs as they would be run as a separate class in the second wave

It exposes more novices to our expert level racers and classes

Why not also add Heavyweight SS & SB (Novice??)

Because my fingers forgot to type those...original post edited.

[T Baggins]

Three possible suggestions for ROR - primarily due to declining entries...

1) keep both ROR O and ROR U - but allow smaller displacement bikes to ride up in ROR O.

2) combine the two classes into a single ROR, and increase the payout with the ROR U purse being added in - with payout to 20th instead of 15th.

3) combine the two classes, and run a two-race format per weekend. Race 1 would run where ROR U is, and Race 2 would run where ROR O is. Combined finishes would determine overall payout for the weekend. i.e.: Two firsts, equals first overall. First and 15th would be approx 8th overall, etc... Race 1 of the weekend would grid by accumulated season points. Race 2 would grid by finishing position in Race 1 (sorta makes race 1 a qualifier...). Entry fees would consider this a SINGLE entry (don't have to pay double) and the surcharge would be flat $50 per rider.

[snay]

Propose Class Changes to allow more novice classes in the 2010 season:

Keep existing novice only classes
Keep existing amateur classes

Add as a second wave to the following classes novice versions of the same:

Middleweight Supersport (novice)
Middleweight Superbike (novice)
Heavyweight Supersport (novice)
Heavyweight Superbike (novice)
Open Supersport (novice)
Open Superbike (novice)

impact is 0 added time to the schedule, and six more classes that novices can participate in.

It does not affect manufacturer contingency for these programs as they would be run as a separate class in the second wave

It exposes more novices to our expert level racers and classes+1 \:D/

[dragos13]

Propose Class Changes to allow more novice classes in the 2010 season:

Keep existing novice only classes
Keep existing amateur classes

Add as a second wave to the following classes novice versions of the same:

Middleweight Supersport (novice)
Middleweight Superbike (novice)
Heavyweight Supersport (novice)
Heavyweight Superbike (novice)
Open Supersport (novice)
Open Superbike (novice)

impact is 0 added time to the schedule, and six more classes that novices can participate in.

It does not affect manufacturer contingency for these programs as they would be run as a separate class in the second wave

It exposes more novices to our expert level racers and classes

Could we set this up with a time limit qualification? I'm just thinking about a brand new novice having never raced before jumping into MWSB (pretty much the fastest of the fast) and being caught in lap traffic after like 2 laps. I always thought the reason for class eligibility (yellow versus white plates) was a matter of safety.

[gsnyder828]

I always thought the reason for class eligibility (yellow versus white plates) was a matter of safety.

+1

I can't imagine the chaos of Matt Lynn and Jason Disalvo battling for contingency $$ through a field of 40+ new novices.

*If* we went this route - I would suggest getting rid of Nov O and Nov U and moving to LWSB Novice and MWSB Novice (2 waves) running together and HWSB Novice and OSB Novice (2 waves) running together.

If novices want exposure to experts - run amateur classes and/or get an expert plate.

[rybo]

2) combine the two classes into a single ROR, and increase the payout with the ROR U purse being added in - with payout to 20th instead of 15th.



I'd like to add a 4th possibility, in the wake of declining club revenues:

4) Combine the two classes, retain the current ROR - O payout schedule and eliminate the ROR - U payouts.

The additional funds are badly needed for a strong recovery in the MRA. Establish a "reserve" amount for the MRA bank account and once that reserve is met and maintained for a full season consider adding additional payouts.

[rybo]

Heat races would solve this, and there is already a spot in the schedule for them if they were needed.



Propose Class Changes to allow more novice classes in the 2010 season:

Keep existing novice only classes
Keep existing amateur classes

Add as a second wave to the following classes novice versions of the same:

Middleweight Supersport (novice)
Middleweight Superbike (novice)
Heavyweight Supersport (novice)
Heavyweight Superbike (novice)
Open Supersport (novice)
Open Superbike (novice)

impact is 0 added time to the schedule, and six more classes that novices can participate in.

It does not affect manufacturer contingency for these programs as they would be run as a separate class in the second wave

It exposes more novices to our expert level racers and classes

Could we set this up with a time limit qualification? I'm just thinking about a brand new novice having never raced before jumping into MWSB (pretty much the fastest of the fast) and being caught in lap traffic after like 2 laps. I always thought the reason for class eligibility (yellow versus white plates) was a matter of safety.

[dragos13]

Heat races would solve this, and there is already a spot in the schedule for them if they were needed.


A heat race is set up when the grids are too large, this wont eliminate the chance of a brand new novice running 2:20 lap times to be caught in a MWSB battle for 1st(like stated above).

[gsnyder828]

2.4.1 Class Displacement and Configuration Limits

Remove section 5 (delete ROR GTU)

Modify section 6 to read:

6. Race Of the Rockies GTO
• Unlimited displacement and origin
• All RoR GTO riders are required to possess a valid MRA license as per 3.2.D.4

Removes requirement to race a full season as an expert prior to entry and removes ROR GTU bike exclusions

[T Baggins]

2) combine the two classes into a single ROR, and increase the payout with the ROR U purse being added in - with payout to 20th instead of 15th.



I'd like to add a 4th possibility, in the wake of declining club revenues:

4) Combine the two classes, retain the current ROR - O payout schedule and eliminate the ROR - U payouts.

The additional funds are badly needed for a strong recovery in the MRA. Establish a "reserve" amount for the MRA bank account and once that reserve is met and maintained for a full season consider adding additional payouts.

We've already tied the ROR payout to overall racer participation, so even adding the U payout to the O combined class wouldn't increase costs. Also, paying deeper would help ensure the 600 guys would participate. The idea is to "increase" participation, not just cut expenses. :)

[dragos13]

We've already tied the ROR payout to overall racer participation, so even adding the U payout to the O combined class wouldn't increase costs. Also, paying deeper would help ensure the 600 guys would participate. The idea is to "increase" participation, not just cut expenses. :)

So by combining the classes, that means I could (in theory) earn a top 10 number plate riding on a 600cc?

[T Baggins]

I always thought the reason for class eligibility (yellow versus white plates) was a matter of safety.

+1

I can't imagine the chaos of Matt Lynn and Jason Disalvo battling for contingency $$ through a field of 40+ new novices.

*If* we went this route - I would suggest getting rid of Nov O and Nov U and moving to LWSB Novice and MWSB Novice (2 waves) running together and HWSB Novice and OSB Novice (2 waves) running together.

If novices want exposure to experts - run amateur classes and/or get an expert plate.

Per Jim's suggestion at the top, let's move this one to it's own topic for debate:

http://forums.mra-racing.org/viewtopic.php?p=54519#54519

[T Baggins]

in theory

"In Theory" - yes.... :lol:

[T Baggins]

Moved ROR discussion to it's own thread as well:

http://forums.mra-racing.org/viewtopic.php?t=9469

[marty]

I would like to suggest that this rule be amended to include Am U, Am O and any endurance classes.
If we force a top ten Novice to move to expert, how can we not hold a novice finishing top ten in an Am class to the same standards. I would think that it would be more difficult to finish top ten with experts mixed in.

it might be tough with the endurance class, if you make every race, you would almost guarantee you would bump up. for several folks endurance is the only race they run.

[dragos13]

"In Theory" - yes.... :lol:

I'm down (now i just gotta figure out how to ride an R6 like Dalton does)

[gsnyder828]

4.5 Novice to Expert advancement process

Advancement from Novice to Expert can occur when the following requirements have been met, subject to approval by the New Rider Director:

A. [Add] Completion of a minimum of 6 races.

B. Demonstration of a working knowledge of MRA safety information, such as race day format, equipment requirements, and the meanings of all corner worker and starter flags.

C. and so on....

Explanation:

We used to have this (or something like it) in the rulebook. I don't recall when it went away, but when I started (in '01) racing it was clear that a novice with decent skills *could* turn expert after their 2nd full weekend (assuming 3+ races/weekend). Now it implicitly reads (to me at least) that you should be a novice for a full season before either a) being forced up or b) petitioning to move up. I think we'd want to encourage advancement to expert... no? Not sure if this is the best way to do that - but I was surprised to see the minimum race participation clause had gone away.

[Scored51]

4.5 Novice to Expert advancement process
A. [Add] Completion of a minimum of 6 races.
... a novice with decent skills *could* turn expert after their 2nd full weekend (assuming 3+ races/weekend).

That could actually happen in less than 1 race weekend with a 2000 M/Y 600.

[gsnyder828]

That could actually happen in less than 1 race weekend with a 2000 M/Y 600.

Well then is 9 a better # than 6 then? (since one could feasibly enter 8 races/weekend on a 2000 600)

[oldtimer]

E. Any novice racer who finishes in the top 10 in overall points in either Novice GTU or Novice GTO will be ineligible to compete as a Novice in the future unless they do not race for 3 or more seasons and are subject to the requirements
of 4.3.C.

I would like to suggest that this rule be amended to include Am U, Am O and any endurance classes.
If we force a top ten Novice to move to expert, how can we not hold a novice finishing top ten in an Am class to the same standards. I would think that it would be more difficult to finish top ten with experts mixed in.

To clarify, this rule change proposes bumping novices into expert at year end based on their finishes in these classes, but allowing them to continue racing the classes under the existing rules, correct? Ie, a novice who can't make Saturday's Novice classes and races Sunday's Am classes all year (and finishes top 10) is bumped to expert at the end of the season. But can continue to run Am for the following year until meeting the top 5 expert bump? There is no bump out of Endurance (nor do I think there should be). I don't know that I would agree with applying the novice bump to Endurance, but maybe Amateur. Just trying to understand the proposal, thanks.

[CO750]

That could actually happen in less than 1 race weekend with a 2000 M/Y 600.

Well then is 9 a better # than 6 then? (since one could feasibly enter 8 races/weekend on a 2000 600)

I guess I'm trying to understand the objective you are trying to reach with this. To me, if someone comes in and is clearly fast enough to be running expert classes then why shouldn't they be given that opportunity. As of now they can petition to be moved up to expert ahead of "schedule", so why put a minimum race limit on it?

[T Baggins]

should this go to it's own topic heading so as not to confuse Mr. Brewer....?

[CO750]

Propose 2 new categories:

Middleweight Production
Open Production

The intent of this class is to reduce the ongoing costs of racing and bring close competition. As such only minimal modifications may be made to the motorcycle with the intention of making it track worthy. In the production class the stock ECU, Airbox, Air Filter and Exhaust system must remain in place.



I think this might limit your entries a bit. I don't know of any bike with the stock exhaust and air filter still on it. Even from potential street riders we are hoping to entice to race, most have changed these items already.

[gsnyder828]

That could actually happen in less than 1 race weekend with a 2000 M/Y 600.

Well then is 9 a better # than 6 then? (since one could feasibly enter 8 races/weekend on a 2000 600)

I guess I'm trying to understand the objective you are trying to reach with this. To me, if someone comes in and is clearly fast enough to be running expert classes then why shouldn't they be given that opportunity. As of now they can petition to be moved up to expert ahead of "schedule", so why put a minimum race limit on it?

I agree they should and that's the intent - in a backwards way perhaps. :lol:

The objective would be to clarify that you *can* move up very quickly (I'm not stuck on 1 weekend or 2... but there has to be time to assess the rider's skills). Right now it's unclear - and all advancement process verbiage is focused on end of year results, rather than encouraging strong novices to move to expert as soon as possible.

Perhaps the whole section needs a rewrite to clarify the intent.

I'd rather see more strong, competent novices move to expert sooner than add more novice classes to keep them there when the expert class they'd be joining only has a dozen or so entries.

[dirkterrell]

We began discussing this in the thread for Scott's "novice 2nd waves in SS/SB" proposal but I'll bring it here to make it official:

Eliminate Sportsman, Nov-U and Nov-O and replace them with Nov-A, Nov-B and Nov-C. Since lap times in the novice ranks tend to be determined by rider skill much more so than bike displacement, the idea is to restructure the novice classes to better reflect that situation.

1) Nov-A and Nov-B would have fastest lap limits like Sportsman currently does so that the slowest riders would be in Nov-A, faster ones in Nov-B and the fastest in Nov-C. Slower riders could ride up if they wanted to. The lap time limits would be decided by MRA officials.

2) Superbike rules with no displacement limits. Removing the displacement limit means that riders of larger displacement bikes now have more racing options.

The fastest riders now have only one novice class to race in but if Scott's proposal is accepted, these riders would ride in the novice 2nd waves of the SS/SB races. This proposal thus has the advantage of encouraging the fastest novice riders to move up to expert.

Here is the discussion thread for this item. (http://forums.mra-racing.org/viewtopic.php?t=9497)

Dirk[/url]

[Desmodromico]

I have one but it is probably a bit self-serving as I hope to someday have an 848...I know an 848 could be a monster but the stock bike isn't pushing much more than a 749R.

SuperTwins GTU

• Up to 850 cc two cylinder, four stroke

• Up to 125cc single cylinder two stroke

• Unlimited displacement, two cylinder, four stroke, two valves per cylinder, air cooled

• Unlimited displacement single cylinder, four stroke.

[rybo]

Class limits- Currently reads

2.2.3 Class Displacement and Configuration Limits
A. Middleweight Supersport
• Up to 600cc four cylinder
• Up to 650cc pre-1984 four cylinder
• Up to 750cc two or three cylinder
• Up to 904cc, two cylinder, four stroke, two valves per cylinder, air cooled
• Unlimited displacement pushrod, two cylinder, four stroke, two valves per cylinder, air cooled


Change to:

2.2.3 Class Displacement and Configuration Limits
A. Middleweight Supersport
• Up to 600cc four cylinder
• Up to 650cc pre-1984 four cylinder
• Up to 850cc two or three cylinder
• Up to 904cc, two cylinder, four stroke, two valves per cylinder, air cooled
• Unlimited displacement pushrod, two cylinder, four stroke, two valves per cylinder, air cooled


To allow the ducati 848 in supersport and align it with our other GTU classes with 4 cylinder bikes. Superbike, Novice GTU and Amateur GTU all allow the 848 already.

[hcr25]

So should the 848 be legal for both ST GTU and MW SS?

[rybo]

I think it should for sure be legal in MW SS, I'm on the fence about ST GTU mostly because it essentially puts an end to any hope that a mildly tuned SV could be competitive there.

There are many more SV's in this world than 848's and I would like to see some classes in the MRA where a SV could do well. Currently

LW GP - SV killed by TZ (unless you're moham)
ST GTU - SV killed by 749R (unless your moham)
Nov U - SV killed by 600's
and so on.

[mbohn]

I have one but it is probably a bit self-serving as I hope to someday have an 848...I know an 848 could be a monster but the stock bike isn't pushing much more than a 749R.

SuperTwins GTU

• Up to 850 cc two cylinder, four stroke

• Up to 125cc single cylinder two stroke

• Unlimited displacement, two cylinder, four stroke, two valves per cylinder, air cooled

• Unlimited displacement single cylinder, four stroke.
This allows the 749R/848 engine used in Larry Pegram and Marty Cragill's AMA FX bike (and currently ridden by Skip Meador in StO) to be run in StU. Is that your intention? I think that bike is a whole different animal than the Ducati 848. All the guys that bought 749R last year would then need to open them out to 848 cc to be competitive. So, last year's Nuclear Arms Race in StO moves down to StU.

[froth]

LW GP - SV killed by TZ (unless you're moham)
ST GTU - SV killed by 749R (unless your moham)


From my perspective, Mr. M. is helping keep it alive, by showing what the SV can do when ridden well. He borrowed Lincoln's SV last year or the year before, and did well, and it was a stock motor.

[Desmodromico]

I have one but it is probably a bit self-serving as I hope to someday have an 848...I know an 848 could be a monster but the stock bike isn't pushing much more than a 749R.

SuperTwins GTU

• Up to 850 cc two cylinder, four stroke

• Up to 125cc single cylinder two stroke

• Unlimited displacement, two cylinder, four stroke, two valves per cylinder, air cooled

• Unlimited displacement single cylinder, four stroke.
This allows the 749R/848 engine used in Larry Pegram and Marty Cragill's AMA FX bike (and currently ridden by Skip Meador in StO) to be run in StU. Is that your intention? I think that bike is a whole different animal than the Ducati 848. All the guys that bought 749R last year would then need to open them out to 848 cc to be competitive. So, last year's Nuclear Arms Race in StO moves down to StU.

Mark, I totally get what you mean however the 848 would get trounced in the StGTO as much as it would have an advantage over the SV's. It is kind of a tweener unfortunately, however it is also Ducati's fastest selling bike ever and like I said for selfish reasons I would like to see it legal for StU. I definitely agree with Scott to make it MWSS legal, though even a 1098 wouldn't make me as fast as those guys!

[rybo]

Add:

A rule stating that in order to score points in a class you must complete race distance.

This keeps people who crash from scoring points in a class (disincentive for crashing) and prevents the obligatory 1 lap ride at the end of the season.

It could be worded as follows:

7.2.1 Finish Position
A. To qualify for a finish position a rider must start the race with the green flag/light or start while the race is in progress.
B. Any rider who does not complete the full race distance for any reason will be awarded a finish position based on the distance they completed.
C. Any rider who is on the grid but does not start the race or join the race in progress will be scored as a DNS at the bottom of the results in the same order as their original grid positions.
D. If the rider does not qualify for a finish position, that rider will not receive points for that race.
E. If the rider starts, but does not finish the race no points will be awarded to that rider

[marty]

Add:

A rule stating that in order to score points in a class you must complete race distance.

This keeps people who crash from scoring points in a class (disincentive for crashing) and prevents the obligatory 1 lap ride at the end of the season.

It could be worded as follows:

7.2.1 Finish Position
A. To qualify for a finish position a rider must start the race with the green flag/light or start while the race is in progress.
B. Any rider who does not complete the full race distance for any reason will be awarded a finish position based on the distance they completed.
C. Any rider who is on the grid but does not start the race or join the race in progress will be scored as a DNS at the bottom of the results in the same order as their original grid positions.
D. If the rider does not qualify for a finish position, that rider will not receive points for that race.
E. If the rider starts, but does not finish the race no points will be awarded to that rider



what about the guy who gets crashed into who was not the fault of the crash

[chrobis]

Novice Hours / Community Service

I will be the first to admit that this is not at all a new proposal.

***************
Delete 4.5.D,E,F,G:
***************

D. All riders who begin the season as a Novice must complete 4 hours of community service to the club that season. Novice riders must complete 4 hours of service before being upgraded to expert. Failure to complete the service will result in the forfeiture of all points and standings for the season in all classes in which the rider has competed.

E. For the purposes of this section ‘community service’ may include but not be confined to scorekeeping, cornerworking or any other service as defined by the Board.

F. The Board may waive the requirement of community service for a rider for extraordinary circumstances and by a majority vote of the Board.

G. Point calculations for the purposes of advancing to expert (Section 4.3) will be applied prior to application of penalties due to failure to complete 4 hours of service to the club.


***************
Add:
***************

4.4.4.C Community Service

1. All riders who are not members of the MRA Board must either:

a. Complete 4 hours of community service to the club each season, or
b. Pay $25/hr to the club for each partial hour not worked.
Failure to comply with one of the above conditions will result in the forfeiture of all points and standings for the season in all classes in which the rider has competed.

2. The period for Community Service begins the day after the previous season's last race, and continues through the end of the current season's last race weekend.

3. Fullfillment of the Community Service requirement will be tracked on the MRA website for all riders, indicating both 'if' and 'how' the requirement has been completed, (i.e., 'Board Member', 'waived', 'x hours / y dollars').

4. For the purposes of this section ‘community service’ may include but not be confined to scorekeeping, cornerworking, race school instruction, bike night events, or any other service as defined by the Board.

a. Riders must have prior consent of any responsible Board member in order to fullfill their Community Service in such capacity. (This is geared towards cornerworking and PR events.)
5. The Board may waive the requirement of community service for a rider for extraordinary circumstances and by a majority vote of the Board.

6. For Novices, point calculations for the purposes of advancing to expert (Section 4.3) will be applied prior to application of penalties due to failure to complete 4 hours of service to the club.


************************************


I have wanted to propose a rule change like this for several years, but felt that unless I did it as an Expert, that it would be discounted as the whinings of a Novice. The events of this year have forced my hand, and not by encouraging me to petition for Expert status - that is a completely separate debate.

Our financial difficulties this year poignantly illustrated two related facts: 1) The club can really use a significant level of volunteer service, and 2) a lot of people - both Novice and Expert - were happy to step up to the challenge. On a related note, this year's $50 buyout option created the rather bizarre side effect of in essence making the turnkey Novice race license $50 more expensive than the turnkey Expert license. WTF!

The gross effect of what I am proposing would add up to a total of 1200 hours of volunteer service hours, or $30000 to the club's bank account, (or some ratio of the two), for the approximately 300 racers we had this year, assuming that they all cared about points or standings. (Racers that didn't compete during the season could ignore this requirement without repercussion.) The net effect is harder to quantify, given that all we have tracked up until now is the efforts that Novices make toward their requirement - not what Experts have contributed, nor what Novices have contributed beyond their 4 hour requirement.

I've proposed a doubling of this year's buyout price because I think it should be more expensive than that to buy a clear conscience. The club could do a lot with the equivalent of a part time employee, (granted that administration would be a required but hidden cost), and any money that this brought in could go a very long way in covering PR costs.

Tracking riders' fullfillment on the MRA website would grant recognition to those who contribute the most, (and least), and could ultimately conclude with an annual award.

[dave.gallant]

As I do every year, I suggest the following modificatoin:

SuperTwins GTU

• Up to 700cc two cylinder, four stroke
• Up to 125cc single cylinder two stroke
• Unlimited displacement, two cylinder, four stroke, two valves per cylinder, air cooled
• Unlimited displacement single cylinder, four stroke.

[dragos13]

Add:

A rule stating that in order to score points in a class you must complete race distance.

This keeps people who crash from scoring points in a class (disincentive for crashing) and prevents the obligatory 1 lap ride at the end of the season.

It could be worded as follows:

7.2.1 Finish Position
A. To qualify for a finish position a rider must start the race with the green flag/light or start while the race is in progress.
B. Any rider who does not complete the full race distance for any reason will be awarded a finish position based on the distance they completed.
C. Any rider who is on the grid but does not start the race or join the race in progress will be scored as a DNS at the bottom of the results in the same order as their original grid positions.
D. If the rider does not qualify for a finish position, that rider will not receive points for that race.
E. If the rider starts, but does not finish the race no points will be awarded to that rider



what about the guy who gets crashed into who was not the fault of the crash

Yeah I have a big issue about the wording and idea behind this. I have seen riders and personally been involved in crashes that were not my fault. Now you are saying that I would get 0 points? I always thought "crashing" was a disincentive of itself...

I also want to ask about the idea of doing 1 lap on someone elses bike, just to get "some" points and hopefully a shot at keeping a top 5 championship. With this rule, if I was going to borrow a bike now I must complete the entire race? I borrowed Eriks bike once, it was for MWSS and his novice class was following right behind. I did one lap so that I could get his bike back to him, and he could get ready for his race, make sure the bike is fueled, let the brakes cool down, etc. Just my opinion.

[CO750]

Add:

A rule stating that in order to score points in a class you must complete race distance.

This keeps people who crash from scoring points in a class (disincentive for crashing) and prevents the obligatory 1 lap ride at the end of the season.

It could be worded as follows:

7.2.1 Finish Position
A. To qualify for a finish position a rider must start the race with the green flag/light or start while the race is in progress.
B. Any rider who does not complete the full race distance for any reason will be awarded a finish position based on the distance they completed.
C. Any rider who is on the grid but does not start the race or join the race in progress will be scored as a DNS at the bottom of the results in the same order as their original grid positions.
D. If the rider does not qualify for a finish position, that rider will not receive points for that race.
E. If the rider starts, but does not finish the race no points will be awarded to that rider

What is the purpose for further penalizing someone who crashes? They are already going to finish near the end of the standings. I understand we want to promote safety, but lets face it, this is racing not a track day. Even Rossi crashes from time to time and some times it's not even your fault. Plus you have to account for people who might have a mechanical reason for not finishing.

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

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