dumb question of the day for "racers"

[dave.gallant]

I am curious about our declining grids. In gross terms, there are largely too groups of "racers" who have raced with the MRA over the years and who may frequent this board:

Those who have raced for years and those are new to the sport.

We have historically had a rate of ~30% turnover year to year; meaning 30% of the people who raced the previous year did not show up the next year. This has been this way for the last 8 or so years I have been tracking the racer data, but this year is historically the worst I have seen.

So, I am curious:

If you are a long time MRA racer who has not been able to race much this year, why not?

And, if you are new to the MRA (say, less than 2 years membership or seasons), and you have not been able to race as much this year as you would have liked, why not?

$$$? Time? Injury? Number of events in this season? Bike prep seems too obtuse and/or difficult? Dog ran off? Wife ran off (and took dog)? "No Kids on Wheels in Pits" rule cost you too much in TBagger tickets? You were visited by the Green Fairy and couldn't find your way back to your pits?

I am curious, and am especially curious what the opinions are of long time members not racing this season (Sexy Ben? TBagger?) as well as new racers who have never competed with the MRA until this season.

-dave

[Ashli]

I will post for Dave since he hasn't been on for awhile and he's out of town.

Dave is not racing this year (after being a racer for 4 or 5 years???) plain and simply because of money. Seriously, that is it. We didn't have the money. We bought a house last year, we lost a roommate. We just can't afford it. If he raced and something happened that was going to cost us largely financially, we would be screwed, so he took this season off in the hopes of coming back soon. We miss everyone so much. But yeah, money is our issue. :roll:

[Mforza]

$$$ and working most of the weekends :(

[marty]

dave, are you looking for an answer like "i can't get a tall enough front sprocket for my dirt bike" when any ol angle grinder would fix the problem

:twisted:

in all seriousness, seems most of the folks who raced last year and aren't this year all seem to say that money is the issue. they all seem to still have some hobby money, but not enough to do a whole season

[GNGSXR]

i had all the money and vacation time set aside at the start of this year to do most of the races this season.

then at the start of the very first NOV gto race this year i got in a wreck.
all the money i had for tires, gas, travel expenses, etc went to buying a new engine and all the other crap that broke in that wreck.

i have almost all the parts to get the bike going again, but most likely wont have enough money to race it this season.

[dave.gallant]

Don't get me wrong -- money is always a huge issue for everyone every year.

It just seems like this year is the "perfect storm" and is effecting most everyone more than it has in years previous and I am curious why. Racers are generally a pretty crafty bunch and do whatever it takes to make the grid. :)

[dave.gallant]

dave, are you looking for an answer like "i can't get a tall enough front sprocket for my dirt bike" when any ol angle grinder would fix the problem

btw: I am on crutches right now, but you just wait...When I get off them your bumble-bee-ass is all mine in Colorado Class. :shock:

:lol: :lol:

[sheispoison]

I fall down go boom. But I got back on it as soon as I could get the boot and glove on!
carl

[marty]

dave, are you looking for an answer like "i can't get a tall enough front sprocket for my dirt bike" when any ol angle grinder would fix the problem

btw: I am on crutches right now, but you just wait...When I get off them your bumble-bee-ass is all mine in Colorado Class. :shock:

:lol: :lol:
you and your damned feet. :lol:

[glenngsxr]

My not racing this year has been kind of a mix of sorts. Just bought a house and got married. Got in that damn wreck in September and my health is still not the same. Also, seems like I have had issue after issue with bikes (I take great care of them too). Overall, I would say it was the bike issues. I am really burned out on buying parts over and over. Glenn #62

[T Baggins]

Unexpected Back Surgery in January, still not medically cleared

Out-of-Pocket co-pays over $6000 - shoulda read the fine print!

I got's no money to race :cry:

[T Baggins]

Dave - wanna turn this into a poll with several semi-generic options like we did when we did the mailer with the memberhips in 2008?

[dave.gallant]

Dave - wanna turn this into a poll with several semi-generic options like we did when we did the mailer with the memberhips in 2008?

yeah -- that was a good mailer you did, and maybe a poll would be a good thing. From the looks of it though, I am guessing $$ is going to be the number one reason like always...

I am just struck by how perfect-of-a-storm this is to lead to such drastic downturns.

[racer316]

I am just struck by how perfect-of-a-storm this is to lead to such drastic downturns.

Family medical bills and the loss of my son in a motorcycle accident did it for me. Can't seem to get back on two wheels. I was there every weekend whether I could afford it or not before and ran 4 classes each weekend. Now other things are more important.

As far as the economic situation ... I hate to be a pessimist but I don't think the storm is over. :cry:

[dave.gallant]

Family medical bills and the loss of my son in a motorcycle accident did it for me. Can't seem to get back on two wheels. I was there every weekend whether I could afford it or not before and ran 4 classes each weekend. Now other things are more important.

I am so sorry for your loss.

And I agree 100% -- many other things are indeed more important. Racer's tend not to have good life perspective in this regards and that is a shame.

[gsnyder828]

I've been racing since 2001 - and have only really put one full season together (in 06).

Early on $$ was the primary driver - as I'm not willing to race on credit. Crashes affected the $$ side too in those years.

Now $$ is less of a concern, but schedule has been more of my issue lately - with one or 2 critical conflicts (family weddings, etc.) happening this year and last preventing a full season. Once the full season is out the window I've tended to be a bit less committed on the rest of the season, since I'm not in any hunt for overall season points. I end up making race by race value decisions.

I had planned to do a full season this year - but have a family conflict for race #9. Once that happened I rearranged my schedule to race less b/c there were sacrifices made to make the full season (racing on my wife's birthday, spending our Anniversary in Hastings, etc.) that were no longer worth making.

I'm still hoping to pull together a full season next year - only have my sister's wedding next august to work around #-o

I don't know how some of you guys do it year after year - impressive!

[phildrummond]

Indirectly for me, money. The plus side is my healthy cash cushion. The negative side is my fear of job loss, with a potential negative effect on said cushion. I'd hate to race more now, only to post "bike for sale" later.

I race about 50%, same as last year.

[DingleBerns]

I have a few reasons for not racing after 2 seasons with the MRA. One, obviously was money and I wanted to buy a ring for my, now, fiance. The pay from my job at the time made it a one or the other situation. Second, we are buying a house in October to reep the benefits of the $8K refund so we are saving for a down payment. Lastly, I am starting the police academy next week and there is no way I am going risk my new career because I crashed, broke my arm, and now I can't shoot a gun so I get kicked out....

[terid]

still no full time job, and temping at $12/hr doesn't cover the necessities, much less hobbies. Fred's biz is down 60%. As a result of no full time jobs, no comprehensive insurance (can't afford full coverage, we at least know Fred's insurance is good through July, but who knows after that...) and the fine print in the major medical saying it won't cover extreme activities - and motorcycle racing is specifically listed.

too much of a risk with that in mind.

sometimes we just have to step back and pick and choose, and unfortunately that's what we are looking at for the near future anyway.

Teri

[dirkterrell]

This is my second year with the MRA. I skipped the last HPR round because the endurance race got canceled. Since I only do Nov-O and HW Endurance, it wasn't worth it to me to come out for one sprint race. I missed the last PMP round because of a foot injury.

I race for fun, not to chase championships and I decided not to go to MPH because it's a long drive and on a holiday weekend. I simply wanted to do other things this year. Money wasn't a primary consideration but it did factor in.

Dirk

[Ray-Ray]

Well...

Lets see,

THE BEST season of my short 6 year career GOES POOF!
Said "Cause" of this "POOF" $3000+
Losing left Pinky $$ WHO knows I'm afraid to find out.
Spending weekends with my best friend and our famlies, drinking, bench racing, MORE drinking, ect...ect....ect $$PRICELESS

So, If GOD is willing and if some miracles happen. I will be back out there racing... Nine fingers and all!!

[rforsythe]

For me, money and time ran out (along with the bike I was graciously being allowed to race for a season getting sold). Was planning to come back for a weekend or two at the end of the season, but given the current situation I'm trying to get it together in time for the 25th, despite it really not being a good time to do it (kid could literally pop out at the track), cause I have put a lot into this club and want it to exist 3 months from now.

I know some other folks are considering or doing the same thing as well, i.e. realizing that we need racers now (even if it's a temporary boost) if we're to have an MRA to race with in the future.

[phildrummond]

Now Ray-Ray...you know you've got a bike to ride, though the Triple Niner is cursed. It's no Ducati, but it works (at least it did in the spring) and needs the old gas blown out of it.

So, take away the bike excuse, add 9 good fingers and you're racing again.

[mbohn]

Dave - wanna turn this into a poll with several semi-generic options like we did when we did the mailer with the memberhips in 2008?

If you do a poll please be sure to include "All of the Above" as the last choice. It will simplify things for some of us. :)

[kcecil]

I started racing in '04, and have raced every season since, with the minimum being two events, and the max being 5 events (last year). I was going to make it six events this year, but then PPIR got cancelled, so it looks like it'll be 4. While racing is the most exhilirating and fun activity I do, it is definitely not my top priority. In a nutshell, the infrequency of my appearance on the grid boils down to $, time, and timing, but for me, this year is no different than any other year.

[kfm61]

I have only missed one or two races since 2004. Racing is a priority for me. I spend more money, time and effort than I should so I can fulfill my obligation as a "Grid Filler"! I'm not addicted, I can quit any time, I just don't want to! :D

I faced the same challenges as others racers, our wedding was planned around a race weekend, (She is a great wife!). Our anniversary was spent on a race weekend, and we're re-financing our house.

Through all this I still manage to plan enough money and plan family stuff to allow me to race. In fact, my step-daughter will be with us at the next race while she's home from collage. ( I trained her to like motorcycles!)

I understand that priorities change as life goes on, but the ability to adapt to changing economic and life changes keeps the stress level low. I will be racing 3 classes for the last races, I just need to stay away from Jeff and Marty and their tag team act!

[DarkKnight]

My situation is like most others. After changing jobs 2 1/2 years ago (not by choice), I still make 25% less then I did before the move. Im doing a bit better than pay check to pay check but there are weeks when racing gets pushed down on the priority list. I had planned to make it a full season but life had other ideas. I am planning on being at all the remaining HPR races.

[benfoxmra95]

It's just too much money these days.....

I saw it coming for the last 3 or 4 years. That's why I made the switch to the yamaha and even still that was only a band aid on the wallet for a year or two. racing an inline isn't cheap anymore either.

This year and last year the amount of money being thrown at the twins class is just ri-goddamn-diculous in my opinion.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
In 1996 I bought a new gsxr 750 from Apex:

96 gsxr 750 $8000
exhaust $750
race tech vavles and springs for $275
used shock for $350
jet kit for $79
race body work for $450.
rear sets $175

Take off tires: $75 a set every 3 weekends

Total $10,154
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
2000 started racing ducatis bought a new 748 from fay myers:

99 748 new from fay myers $11500
ohlins shock $650
Fork revavle $275
piston kit $450
rods $525
exhaust $1200
body work $850
rear sets $145

New michelins every race weekend $430 a set

$16,025
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

2007 bought an R1 from Apex

07 r1 $12500
body work $750
full exhaust $1800
shock $1350
fork cartridges $999
kit harness and ecu $1700
rear sets $675
clip ons $275
brembo brake master $275

New Dunlops (2 sets) every weekend $925 (2 classes slicks/dots)

Total $20624

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Time warp to 2009 to be competative on the grid and not race for 13th

2008 1098r $39k
pistons $850
exhaust cams $1250
shock $1450
fork revalve $750
brembo brake master $325
triple clamps $500
ecu $1650
bodywork $1400
swing arm $3500
radiator $4200
full exhaust system $4200

New dunlops every weekend $500 (depending on how fast you are more likely you need two sets per weekend because this bike eats rear tires)

Total $59,575..... :shock:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Anyone see a trend here? costs are going up at a exponential rate.

The figures above are way on the low side.... there's way more things that go with the complete packages to get the rubber to meet the road. I just listed some of the most basic stuff and it's costs to put the trend into perspective, also notice there's no labor for this stuff, no dyno tuning, no shop fees from a major bike shop here in colorado. you throw labor in the mix because the average guys doens't know how to or want to revalve his forks or degree his cams, then the shit goes into a low earth orbit circling around citi/chase/amex/discover.

I estimate, you need around $80k for a competative ducati. around $30k for a competative 1000cc bike.

Why im pulling back, is for several reasons:

1. It's too effing much money to race competatively, and if your a real racer at heart, you don't want to go out on low level equipment or on shagged tires and race for 13th place. plus you need to practice, and practice fees are just too much for me to cough up these days. your looking at about $675 just for a good practice day, that includes fuel for the bike and truck, entry fees, food, and tires. You do a $700 practice day on a monday 4 days before a $1500 race weekend and this is no longer a cheap sport to try and run up front at. I mean you can easily spend $6000 a month on racing every other weekend. So I think the costs getting out of hand on this and have run off true hard core racers like myself becuase we can see what it takes to get to the level where we can be racing at and its just too large a monetary battle, the bar's been raised too high by a small majority of people who have the ability to spend alot of money.

2. I've had 11 really good years of racing with my friends and I realized that's there's more places to travel in this world than just pueblo and denver. I want to see more of the earth, and chasing a trophy at the end of a 11 race weekend series is just not how I want to spend any more summers. There's a lot of people out there that know what I mean here. I fully remember the pain of many long summers, where by race 8 your like Eff me, I wish it was over at 9, but there still 3 more.

3. Well we all had a small wake up call last year. nuff said there.


I don't think this is the perfect storm year.....I think this has been a few years in the making, I've seen a gradual decline since 04 in the race day grids.

Don't take this personally, but the guys out there with the money are making it harder and harder for the guys who don't have it. I see it maybe turning kinda elitest. again...don't take it the wrong way, if you got money you worked hard for it and you deserve to spend it how you please. but it is straining the people without it because they feel beaten before they even throw a leg over.

back a few years I took a ducati 996 that i spent around $16k on(total including the bike) and won some races in the twin class. If I brought out that bike on the grid at the next hpr race, I would have my ass handed to me in a nicely wrapped gift box with a card saying "lol"......

I wish it wasn't the case but It's just the way the food chain works.

[benfoxmra95]

.....

[akuretz]

I joined the club in 2003 and didn't miss a race for 5 seasons. Last year I did the first two rounds and then had family conflicts, new house, and job change so missed a couple rounds. Once the season was completely lost some of the appeal of finishing out the season was gone. Putting the whole season together to finish as best I can has always made racing more exciting for me.

This year we've got our 2nd kid due in 2-3 weeks, Lynn got laid off a few months ago, and the time and finances just haven't been there for me to put together a full season. And to be honest, the idea of an 11 round (10 weekend) season made that even harder.

With two kids, I just don't know if I'll be able to put together a full season again in the near future unless something changes financially for us. I miss the camaraderie of the club and the racing very much, and was hoping to at least make an endurance round or two this season. With kid 2 due the same weekend as the next HPR I don't believe I'll be able to make that one.

[benfoxmra95]

screwed up double post...woops

[benfoxmra95]

This year we've got our 2nd kid due in 2-3 weeks, Lynn got laid off a few months ago, and the time and finances just haven't been there for me to put together a full season. And to be honest, the idea of an 11 round (10 weekend) season made that even harder.



THis is exactly what im talking about. doing only a few races this season didn't even factor in his outlook on it..... he said the idea of a 11 race "SEASON" made it harder.

This goes with what i was saying about trying to tailor the club a little more to the one off weekend racers. not the long haul riders, who do have the resources, but again there's obviously not enough long haul riders to suppport the club.

They have in their minds "the whole season" and then disimissed racing all together if they can't do a "FULL" season, It's either the the whole thing or nothing. You look at the schedule and see 11 weekends and go eff me, i can't afford it all, so what's the point of even doing any of it because my grid positions will suck because I won't have any points, i won't get the trophy at the end of the season, so im staying home.

if your wondering what im talking about go read my thread on qualifying.....

[gixxermike]

I joined the club in mid season 2004 raced I think the last 3 rounds, raced all of the 2005 season. Then there was 2006 and I was in Honduras for the year. Came back in 2007 sold the bike and had a baby, bought the bike back, and an R6 spent the year prepping it to only race the last round at pueblo. Raced all of 2008 except the last two rounds didnt want someone to do something stupid and break my elbow as someone helped me do in the only round i raced in 07 so I couldnt take my new job in Iraq. Leading us to 2009 where I'm currently in Iraq and good chance I'll miss next season as well, b/c I wont leave here until i get a job back there and we all know how long that might take. I just wanna race!!!

[longrider]

I am going to toss out a couple things as a former racer (very former :) ) The escalating cost thing has been going on forever, I quit racing 25 years ago when it got to the point that you could no longer be competitive (you're going to laugh at this) by safety prepping your street bike and bring it to the track. I continued to work the races in various positions (equipment manager, starter, track marshal) until about '95 and watched it get worse. Fast forward to last year when a friend started racing and I come back to the track and can't believe what it takes to be competitive. Unfortunately I dont have an answer to this as money will always buy speed.

My other idea comes from the local motocross scene, I honestly dont know if this would help or hurt attendance. Until this year if you were going for points/championship you had to race the entire 18-20 race season. This year 9 or 10 of the races are set as championship series and the rest are just for that day. This allows people who just want to race for fun (you still get your trophy or purse) to just race one day with no issues, if you want to go for the championship you only have to race 10 races, or if you want you can race every weekend. Gate pick (the equivalent of grid position) is done by random draw so that penalty is removed for not racing every day. What are your opinions on a system like this??

[Ashli]

Don't get me wrong -- money is always a huge issue for everyone every year.

It just seems like this year is the "perfect storm" and is effecting most everyone more than it has in years previous and I am curious why. Racers are generally a pretty crafty bunch and do whatever it takes to make the grid. :)

The only reason Dave raced the last two seasons is because of how "crafty" we were, more so him... working tons and tons of overtime... just like everyone else in this economy, jobs were cut, and overtime was cut for him. Sometimes you just have to be a grown up and make a grown up descision to put your expensive hobby aside until you get your finances straight again. It's obvious that we weren't the only ones who had to do this this year. It's very unfortunate we didn't have enough racers in the MRA to keep it going strong this season, because we were really looking forward to coming back. :( I hope you guys can make a miracle happen so your season isn't cut short!

[froth]

Ashli: Nicely stated, and we miss having you two around. The whole having to make adult decisions sucks at times.

[rforsythe]

So to ponder on Ben's post, because it IS goddamn expensive...

More than a couple times on this forum and CSC, the topic of a low-money spec-type class has come up. Instead of having to drop crazy money just to be competitive cause the guy next to you did it, you run essentially stock bikes and see who's the better rider, and not who can ring up the best AMEX bill. I'd still be in the back of that pack, but there might be more folks in front of me too.

Before someone comes on here telling me "well fast guys need all that shit to go fast", I watch Jason DiSalvo get on an old R6 at R2SL VIR last summer that he had never ridden before (and on the south course, which he had never even seen until then), with minimal cool bits even by club standards, and the suspension bottoming out to the stops every time he got on the brakes. Within 3 laps he was turning the fastest times of anyone in the paddock, even up against guys on fire breathing liter bikes. We tweaked the suspension for him just so he'd have some play and not blow the seals out, and his times got faster. The bike wasn't stock, but wasn't too far from it either.

So what if we could entice folks egos a bit to come out and see how they do when the equipment is all the same, and the racing is comparatively a whole lot cheaper than it was before? This would also entice NEW RACERS (something this club needs badly) since they wouldn't feel the need to go drop $5K in crap just to go fast in a real race.

The exponential cost increases of this sport are, at least in some way, our own fault. We've all allowed this "spend it before we race it" mentality to grow to the point that the racing almost starts at your wallet now. Yes stuff also just costs more, but is all that really necessary to go fast and have fun (kinda the point to all this)? I don't think so. I also think if we could bring the whole cost of the experience back down to mortal levels, some of the riders who just can't pull that kind of debt load might come back to play. If nothing else it might bring in some new riders.

It could also still be something nobody gives a crap about, which is fine too. I still think it's worth putting out there for discussion though.

[Scored51]

It's just too much money these days.....

New dunlops every weekend $500 (depending on how fast you are more likely you need two sets per weekend because this bike eats rear tires)

Total $59,575..... :shock:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This is the perfect example of "You Spent How Much??!!!", and the classes that Ralph writes about are already in existence with the MRA. I ride an SV650 (borrowed... Thanks you Fred Roth and Associated General Hardwood Flooring) that was bought for $2,500. Bodywork, paint, and flatslide carburetors bring the total investment to $4,000. There's a savings of $55,575. Additionally, the tires have run all season (God bless Michelin) less the two rounds I missed, but they were also used when I started riding them.

If you want to go cheaper there is always Colorado Class on EX500, GS500, Hawk GT's, and a plethora of single cylinder combos and SUMO's. Heck, there was a nicely prepped GS500 listed here for $1200. I don't no if anyone local bought it, but it hasn't shown up on the grids.

There are also SO MANY WAYS to save running costs during the weekend. Camping and cooking at the track instead of heading out to a restaurant and hotel. This saves not only on lodging and food money, but also on fuel costs driving back and forth from the track. Driving from Denver out to HPR and spending the night at home costs the same in fuel as driving to Pueblo. And how many times have I heard Pueblo is too far? Hooking up into teams to share consolidate equipment and running costs can also be a tremendous help.

It may not be possible for everyone to race all the time, but Ashli is dead right about being crafty. When Hoopty showed up with a Mod Vin bike I thought that's a shame he doesn't get to run with the big dogs, but what an AMAZING season he ran against Tony. It was the closest contested championship that year!

Just my thoughts...

[Sprtbkbabe]

...So what if we could entice folks egos a bit to come out and see how they do when the equipment is all the same, and the racing is comparatively a whole lot cheaper than it was before? This would also entice NEW RACERS (something this club needs badly) since they wouldn't feel the need to go drop $5K in crap just to go fast in a real race.
...I also think if we could bring the whole cost of the experience back down to mortal levels, some of the riders who just can't pull that kind of debt load might come back to play. If nothing else it might bring in some new riders.

Exactly! I have a couple of friends who took the MRA class this year, yet can't get past the costs of beginning entry requirements they need to prep their bikes, etc... along with coming out to watch the races, they are intimidated by all of the $30K+ trailers, rows of back up bikes that roll in off those trailers, and most importantly, the competitive upgrades that they FEEL they need to compete with ya crazy bastards!

Sure, some novices get involved and come into the club just to say they raced or are doing it because it was a step up from track days. But, the ones who stayed (like me) are either doing it because they want to stick with it, improve and enjoy the club and are finding ways in their finances to make it affordable. Or, they can afford all the trick bits while they still have a job and don't mind filing bankruptcy down the road (eek!)

[glenngsxr]

Although I agree the money required to get the trick parts is crazy expensive, I do not want to see the club go towards the DMG supersport crap rules. It is important to keep innovation and the need to "find another tenth" in this game. In reality, we all chase the clock and in this battle we test ourselves as well. This is the rush that keeps us coming back for more. Many people leave once they stop making progress on their lap times. I say lap times and not finishing position because if you finish 4th in a race of 4, you still finished last. I hit a wall last year and it has made me nearly want to quit. I could do 35's at Pueblo and can now only manage 37's for some reason. It is at this point people leave and create natural attrition.

I have always told people that at the club level(with the exception of the Brads, Clarkie's and Turpins) that there is nothing you cannot make up with skill. You don't have to build a screamer motor to win races at the club level. It is natural for humans to want to "keep up with the Jones'" and you can see it at the track.

I say we give the qualifying a try at the next round. If we need people to volunteer to come down to the race day office and manually set the grids based off times, then so be it. Glenn #62

[racedk6]

Considering you dont need the fastest of newest machines to run top 5 in any of the Novice or Amateur classes the price issue isnt as bad as it would be for the faster expert guys.

Look at the top finishers in all the NOV and AM classes. None of them have super trick race bikes. I have run both AMU and AMO all year and only finished out of the top 5 twice all year on basically a stock bike.

What im trying to get at is, you can run up front in any NOV or AM class with practically a stock bike.

[grant_me_rev's]

1996
Total $10,154
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
2000
$16,025
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
2007
Total $20624
-------------------------------------------------------------------
2009 to be competative on the grid and not race for 13th
Total $59,575


Oh my f’n god, those figures sounds so unreal Ben. :shock:

i moved out of state (sheila too) to a far away land / other world, that offers year round riding + many race / track opportunities but can’t participate cause of a lasik eye surgery gone dramatically wrong (a procedure attempted to enhance my race opportunity not expunge it) A failed attempt in doing a track day to see if I can ‘ride around the eye sight issue’ and not long into the session went off roading, not a big deal but over the fact that it was because an arbitrary cloud that shaded a small portion of the track and i wasn't able to differentiate the pavement/track configuration was a big deal to me. So as much as money and time can be a factor, all I want to do is spend my time and money on racing. Miss u guys and galz.

[Lurch]

Dave I haven't been back because I'm tried of the BS.

[glenngsxr]

Dave I haven't been back because I'm tried of the BS.

Now here's a quote for the ages. Really helpful.

[dave.gallant]

Dave I haven't been back because I'm tried of the BS.

Now here's a quote for the ages. Really helpful.

That opinion is perfectly valid, and Lurch is not the only one to express it.

[benfoxmra95]

Considering you dont need the fastest of newest machines to run top 5 in any of the Novice or Amateur classes the price issue isnt as bad as it would be for the faster expert guys.

Look at the top finishers in all the NOV and AM classes. None of them have super trick race bikes. I have run both AMU and AMO all year and only finished out of the top 5 twice all year on basically a stock bike.

What im trying to get at is, you can run up front in any NOV or AM class with practically a stock bike.


agreed......but.... what happens when that novice racer finishes 3rd in the nov championships?

he gets kicked "up" to the expert grids, where he'll be posed a very expensive question.... if I want to continue to race for 3rd position, then Im going to have to bring a bucket of cash.

Again this is why we lose some novices, they do good in nov....then try a hand at expert and see what it really takes to compete on the wallet level and then leave.

This isn't the case for everyone, some people are content running top ten, some aren't some cant' whatever......

Trying to eliminate some of the novice turnover rate would help the club, and this is just one area i see that could be improved upon as far as "keeping" racers....

Glenn made a comment above about DMG spec supersport, blah blah whatever. I fully disagree, there's closer racing than ever in the AMA now, it's not just mladin running away every weekend. have you watched a 600 race in the ama? it's anybodys win if they want it bad enough.

When you bring the bikes closer in spec to each other the racing will be better, it will be cheaper, and those two things alone will drive up entrys and specators. its quite simple people want to see racers dicing it up they want to see a pack of ten guys go back and forth lap after lap.

[dave.gallant]

I have said this many times:

I will race a shopping cart if I can get a clean heads up race with someone. I don't really care anymore what I am racing as long as it is competitive. I will do the rest...

[Scored51]

Dave - Fred and Associated General have informed me that in addition to the loan of the SV650 to me, he is willing to fully sponsor a dual track Target v. Walmart series! He also states, "Kmart, King Sooper's, and Safeway carts are eligible. Still in negotiations with the drunk at the corner of 14th and Clermont for an Albertson's unit."

[froth]

Dave, good news. I think I've "aquired" some of the really neat carts with the plastic cab and steering wheels in the front. Never mind the kids yowling about having to sit in the seat near the push handle and Mom, we can't hear them from the track.

Now, back to the reality of trying to keep the season and next going.

[Lurch]

Dave I haven't been back because I'm tried of the BS.

Now here's a quote for the ages. Really helpful.

Like Obama says (though it hasn't help the US maybe it will help the MRA) It's time for Change.

[glenngsxr]

Glenn made a comment above about DMG spec supersport, blah blah whatever. I fully disagree, there's closer racing than ever in the AMA now, it's not just mladin running away every weekend. have you watched a 600 race in the ama? it's anybodys win if they want it bad enough.

When you bring the bikes closer in spec to each other the racing will be better, it will be cheaper, and those two things alone will drive up entrys and specators. its quite simple people want to see racers dicing it up they want to see a pack of ten guys go back and forth lap after lap.

Last I checked, Mladin can still check out anytime he wants.
http://www.amaproracing.com/rr/events/standings.cfm?class=sb

Anybody can win in Supersport because its split into east and west and there is only a handful of riders that do the entire series.

Closer to spec bikes are not going to help club racing. It's still expensive for the average person to race even a bone stock bike, period. We are not here to discuss the DMG series. I simply made a point that people want innovation and they want to see the baddest machines doing battle.

[glenngsxr]

Dave I haven't been back because I'm tried of the BS.

Now here's a quote for the ages. Really helpful.

That opinion is perfectly valid, and Lurch is not the only one to express it.

It might be valid, but we are discussing ways to get growth in the club, both spectating and racing. Saying "I'm tired of the BS" is not helping anything. Lurch, can you elaborate on what and how we can fix this BS? Glenn #62

[dave.gallant]

Dave I haven't been back because I'm tried of the BS.

Now here's a quote for the ages. Really helpful.

That opinion is perfectly valid, and Lurch is not the only one to express it.

It might be valid, but we are discussing ways to get growth in the club, both spectating and racing. Saying "I'm tired of the BS" is not helping anything. Lurch, can you elaborate on what and how we can fix this BS? Glenn #62

No, this thread is not about growth.

I started this thread asking for reasons why people are no longer (or not able to) race.

Feel free to go deal with PR and growth issues in the other thread. Lurch's opinion is exactly what I asked for.

[JimWilson29]

Last I checked, Mladin can still check out anytime he wants.
http://www.amaproracing.com/rr/events/standings.cfm?class=sb


actually he hasnt been checking out if you have been watching all the races. it has been much, much closer now. Mladin still wins because he is the best rider out there. if we went to rules which limited the mods, Shane and Brad would still win but the rest of the field would probably be a little bit closer and the racing more competitive.



Closer to spec bikes are not going to help club racing. It's still expensive for the average person to race even a bone stock bike, period. We are not here to discuss the DMG series. I simply made a point that people want innovation and they want to see the baddest machines doing battle.



Why wouldnt it? And I dont think innovation is as important at the club level as it is at the national or world level.

[glenngsxr]

Dave I haven't been back because I'm tried of the BS.

Now here's a quote for the ages. Really helpful.

That opinion is perfectly valid, and Lurch is not the only one to express it.

It might be valid, but we are discussing ways to get growth in the club, both spectating and racing. Saying "I'm tired of the BS" is not helping anything. Lurch, can you elaborate on what and how we can fix this BS? Glenn #62

No, this thread is not about growth.

I started this thread asking for reasons why people are no longer (or not able to) race.

Feel free to go deal with PR and growth issues in the other thread. Lurch's opinion is exactly what I asked for.

OK, technically this thread is not directly about growth. It's about why it's not growing. Why are people leaving? Lurch's "opinion" was hardly an opinion. It was not constructive and offered no insight as to why he left. If there is BS going on, let's let it out and fix it. There is no better time to talk about it than right now when the club is down and may need some revamping to grow.

Dave,
so far would you conclude that money has been the biggest factor in people leaving?

[glenngsxr]

Last I checked, Mladin can still check out anytime he wants.
http://www.amaproracing.com/rr/events/standings.cfm?class=sb


actually he hasnt been checking out if you have been watching all the races. it has been much, much closer now. Mladin still wins because he is the best rider out there. if we went to rules which limited the mods, Shane and Brad would still win but the rest of the field would probably be a little bit closer and the racing more competitive.



Closer to spec bikes are not going to help club racing. It's still expensive for the average person to race even a bone stock bike, period. We are not here to discuss the DMG series. I simply made a point that people want innovation and they want to see the baddest machines doing battle.



Why wouldnt it? And I dont think innovation is as important at the club level as it is at the national or world level.

So instead of winning by 14 seconds, it's only 9 now.

Jim, you are probably right about the innovation though.

[dave.gallant]

OK, technically this thread is not directly about growth. It's about why it's not growing.

No, again this thread is about reasons why people are not racing.

Feel free to bait someone in any one of the numerous "growth" threads, however stop attempting to invalidate reasons simply because they are not your own.

[glenngsxr]

OK, technically this thread is not directly about growth. It's about why it's not growing.

No, again this thread is about reasons why people are not racing.

Feel free to bait someone in any one of the numerous "growth" threads, however stop attempting to invalidate reasons simply because they are not your own.

Dave,
I did not invalidate Lurch's reason. Where are you seeing this? I'm simply saying to give reasons why you are not racing(just like the thread indicates). What if I came in here and said, "I am not racing this year just because"? Does that answer any questions? I am not trying to bait anyone.

[Lurch]

OK, technically this thread is not directly about growth. It's about why it's not growing.

No, again this thread is about reasons why people are not racing.

Feel free to bait someone in any one of the numerous "growth" threads, however stop attempting to invalidate reasons simply because they are not your own.

Dave,
I did not invalidate Lurch's reason. Where are you seeing this? I'm simply saying to give reasons why you are not racing(just like the thread indicates). What if I came in here and said, "I am not racing this year just because"? Does that answer any questions? I am not trying to bait anyone.

Glenn,
I don't really want to get in the specifics as I don't want to get into a pissing match on the forums about the MRA. I have done it enough in the past. All I'm saying is the little things add up and thats why I moved on.

[glenngsxr]

OK, technically this thread is not directly about growth. It's about why it's not growing.

No, again this thread is about reasons why people are not racing.

Feel free to bait someone in any one of the numerous "growth" threads, however stop attempting to invalidate reasons simply because they are not your own.

Dave,
I did not invalidate Lurch's reason. Where are you seeing this? I'm simply saying to give reasons why you are not racing(just like the thread indicates). What if I came in here and said, "I am not racing this year just because"? Does that answer any questions? I am not trying to bait anyone.

Glenn,
I don't really want to get in the specifics as I don't want to get into a pissing match on the forums about the MRA. I have done it enough in the past. All I'm saying is the little things add up and thats why I moved on.

Fair enough Doug. I respect that. Are you gonna come spectate anytime soon? I kind of miss seeing a giant walk through the pits. glenn #62

[Clarkie]

I hit an unprotected wall at PPIR last October and died, twice :cry:

No one knew, but PPIR last October was always going to be my last race so going to the track now and not racing is easy for me :)

[hcr25]

I know Sete misses Lurch!

[ldenvermom]

For us - the Fullers, several reasons as I see it (of course, Chris will see it differently - yin & yang to those that know us).

When Chris and I met, he was a street rider - big smiles everytime he got on that bike. He took me out once (this was 10 years ago) and went over 100 on I-25 and I just about peed my pants.

So, he says that he and his best friend have always wanted to race - I found the track and in the middle of March, with my gloves on cause it was so dang cold, I was out there waving a checkered flag I had found in the box over the track at Second Creek...and I watched my most beloved find his passion. So, he gave up drinking, carousing and all the other stuff you spend your money on - to race.

Chris did really well at the begining of seasons... and then things that take money would happen - tranny blows, engine throws something - whatever, and we wouldn't have the funds to fix it (keep in mind, this is 5+ years ago - so finance has always been a reason)

I mean really, you have to love racing to name your first born Racer - right? And we had to be in love with racing to be at the track 9 days after he was born and 4 days after our daughter was born. You have to love it, and your family has to love it.

But, I got to tell you - more than one screaming match ensued as my husband drug his wife and toddler/infant to the tracks with nothing but awnings on raining, sleeting, 90+ degree weather, wind that fills your ears with dirt - to watch him enjoy the very thing that we began to hate. All I ever saw was the money spent for nothing but a few minutes on the track (I know, I know - if you don't race, you don't understand). I didn't want to be the type of wife who stops her husband stop racing - its' not like that...its that I wanted to stop racing...

So, we went one year - with me and the kids not going, and guess what - cost the same, but then there was less love for him doing it. Because we had fallen in love with racing for a family sport and he wasn't 'family' anymore. With their being more races, closer together = more costly, and well - just wasn't fun FOR HIM anymore.

So - we tried another avenue - the RV...LOVE IT, and lo'behold - others got RV's and they started cropping up -things got easier to be at the track , again for the family, and the smile that I loved so much on my husband, got bigger every time he got off the track - because we were there again.

I was trying to be so supportive that I even 'supplemented' the cost of racing by working a third job (Treasure of the MRA) for two years. Boy did it help and we realized, this is expensive :). But our tattoo shop hits us in the...finances again...when we find everyone in our shop was stealing from us (because we were too giving-go figure) and now, we rob personal Peter to pay business Paul every day. So, racing is the only thing we can give up on.

You wonder what my long-winded posts' final summary is ...- its' mostly, now, about time with the family and the money that you have to spend to be competitive. Its about a shift in priorities when you only have one day together as a family every week. Its about paying five other breadwinners for their families instead of spending your free cash on yourself...

(I say it is a hobby and Chris looks at me like I'm speaking a foreign language - he says you can 'DO' hobby and compete and love it. )

We've toyed with the thoughts that the club now, just doesn't feel like a "family" club anymore, those that have been around forever know what I'm talking about. We thought last year about 'when we make it big' to see about a class where bikes are 'rented' - everyone the same and you pick number, get on the bike and well, your skill is what wins it for you. That is what I personally miss - I can't justify $10+ a year for something that really...is for the rider. Fun and all, but lying on a beach three or four times a year with the kids laughing in the sun for the same amount of money...guess it just comes down to choices.

Love everyone - love my husband, but its' really nice to have a life too.
xoxo
L

Racing - has just become too much money - way too much time and really, the politics got to me.

[Wild Cheetah 612]

I started this thread asking for reasons why people are no longer (or not able to) race.

Feel free to go deal with PR and growth issues in the other thread. Lurch's opinion is exactly what I asked for.
I agree with Dave. I'd love to hear what Lurch has to say and others as well. If I'm screwing up as a member of the board, then I want to hear about it so I can do better. So, please, bitch away! Let's just keep it civil and not get personal.

Civil:
I would like to see different trophies for the races. Maybe something larger and plastic.

Personal:
I hate the trophies that bitch Donna got and she sucks, too!

If you don't want to make your opinions public, then PLEASE PM me or any other board member you feel comfortable with.

[froth]

'Nette: I love your post. Teri and I are in a similar boat. I drug her to the races, got married to her(best decision I ever made), and enjoy racing as much as ever.
Problem: Money. Teri and I for a weekend pay out about $750.00. This will cover the two of us for the races both of us do. Not excessive, I do about five, and she does two. Please remember this includes all the wonderful amenities that include membership in Club P. Chris and Big Mike spend more than that to be there, feeding who knows how many(read anyone who shows up hungry and thirsty, I swear, they must be from the south, Hospitality is their trademark, and they are VERY seriuos about it). With work being about 60% off, it's difficult, to say the least. Of course, we are rowing the same boat as everyone.
How does this relate? We run a '99 SV650, with only carbs, full exhaust, stoci forks(with emulators), and good rear shock. It can be relatively economical to race, and play mid pack... if we have $$$$$$$$. Unfortunately we have less than before.
As Chris Dale said, there are lots of inexpensive machines(Gs500 for less than 12 small) out there if ego doesn't get in the way. Of course, I'm WAY older than most of the MRA, and don't heal nearly as quickly as I used to.
It's just that we don't have the disposable money anymore. The fact that I suck riding inline 4's has nothing to do with it.
To tell the truth, I really believe that if we manage it through even part of this season(the MRA, I'm pretty sure I'll be alive at the end. Clarkie, Teri and I are so glad you are still with us, plese don't go for three!!!) we should look at the idea of the intro class. If we just say "I don't want to deal with 'Nubes on the track" we will ensure that constriction will be the norm, instead of expansion fo the club.
In short, we either make it easy for the beginners to get whatevermachinery they have on to the track for at least one event, or we travel a thousand miles to road race, 'cause we will have killed the MRA.
Man, I'm not enjoying this, but I do thank our board for doing the work they have to do. They are putting forth gallons of midnight oil, and not every decision they make will be universally popular(yep, I don't agree with all of them, but I didn't run for membersip, so.....)

Let's Hope for Change(LOL)

[Scored51]

... Maybe something larger and plastic.

Donna,

That could be considered Civil or Personal. Have you been reading from my wife's Christmas list?

[Wild Cheetah 612]

Sorry, Chris, but plastic is not the correct texture and pliability. Want me to take you shopping?

[modvin1]

For 24 years $$$$ have always been the deciding factor,Hard to justify throwing away 3-4 large just to have the most fun you can have with clothes (leathers) on. I am thankful that I still have a job,roof over my head and am healthy enough to race at least 3 times to keep my #. Time for prep is also problematic @ times.

[Ashli]

I hit an unprotected wall at PPIR last October and died, twice :cry:

No one knew, but PPIR last October was always going to be my last race so going to the track now and not racing is easy for me :)

:(

Clarkie, it's good to see you out at the track even after everything you went through. IMI Sunday?? :)

[clowe]

So, here is what is driving me away from racing. First, let me state that outside of work, racing is what I spend most of my time working towards and thinking about. What is driving me away is major changes to the schedule for the second year in a row. I don't know about the rest of you but I plan my entire summer and a lot of my winter around racing. I assume that most of you are in the same boat. We plan vacation and sometime cut them short in order to be back in time to race. People plan weddings, business travel and family reunions all around the race schedule. Last year, I had to change my wedding plans because the MRA decided to add a race to the end of season. I am lucky to have an understanding wife but the schedule was set, then moved, then set again, then moved again. As members many of us have wives, significant others and helpers whose schedules and lives are effected by these changes as well. We all start making out plans as soon as the schedule is finalized and all of the above mentioned people do the same. Because of the schedule changes from 2006, 2008 and this current season, I may have to find another place to race in the future or maybe just hang it up for a while. The schedule changes get very hard on the races as well as the whole support staff behind each racer.

Dave, I know that was not exactly what you asked but it may be what keeps me from coming back next year!

[dave.gallant]

Dave, I know that was not exactly what you asked but it may be what keeps me from coming back next year!

Thanks for contributing Crash. All of the responses are very helpful.

[T Baggins]

Hey Crash, just note that we're not alone in schedule changes... you saw the OMMRA post I assume?

Adding PPIR last year was intended to be a "fun" exciting addition, though it obviously was not a benefit for everyone.

Changing the schedule this year is solely intended to salvage the club. It's inconvenient for all of us but better to do that and have the club stay solvent.

[chris nami]

i think it would be just fine to add races to a season as long as it doesn't count towards points.

[dragos13]

I think a major reason alot of expert racers didn't show up this year was due to the large 11 race schedule.

If we had planned only 7-8 races for the season, maybe more people would have committed to running the entire season. We know how easy it is to skip races when you aren't going for championship points.

How about next year we make a schedule that more people can afford to take part in. Maybe 8 races total, but PLEASE keep a variety of locations.

[cromer611]

Considering you dont need the fastest of newest machines to run top 5 in any of the Novice or Amateur classes the price issue isnt as bad as it would be for the faster expert guys.

Look at the top finishers in all the NOV and AM classes. None of them have super trick race bikes. I have run both AMU and AMO all year and only finished out of the top 5 twice all year on basically a stock bike.

What im trying to get at is, you can run up front in any NOV or AM class with practically a stock bike.


agreed......but.... what happens when that novice racer finishes 3rd in the nov championships?

he gets kicked "up" to the expert grids, where he'll be posed a very expensive question.... if I want to continue to race for 3rd position, then Im going to have to bring a bucket of cash.

Again this is why we lose some novices, they do good in nov....then try a hand at expert and see what it really takes to compete on the wallet level and then leave.

This isn't the case for everyone, some people are content running top ten, some aren't some cant' whatever......

Trying to eliminate some of the novice turnover rate would help the club, and this is just one area i see that could be improved upon as far as "keeping" racers....


I believe that you dont need to have deep pockets in order to go fast. Im on a stock motor, stock forks and internals, stock exhaust. the only thing i have spent on my bike is time on race prep and a rear shock.

for the novices reading this thread, you dont need all the trick stuff in order to go fast. Its all in your head, if you want it.... go get it. Dont go trying to upgrade components on your bike, look at yourself instead figure out where others are faster than you and learn. I know we are all bullheaded dudes but sometimes you have to admit to yourself that your doin something wrong. if ya need help ask someone, no questions are ever stupid. And if anyone needs help with lines come ask me, ill be glad to help, and if ya have suspension problems, talk to my pop. He is a physicist and is pretty good at diagnosing problems (as long as you can read your bike well).

so dont read these posts thinking "ah crap I will be a expert next year and get my ass kicked, i quit." Think of it as a time to improve yourself as a rider. Cuz I know I am. I know I will be at the end of the pack but i think it will be fun trying to beat guys on built bikes : P

I spend about 600-700 a weekend. I camp out at the track, bring my own food from home. I have a power inverter I run off my jeep ($120 from checker, workin for 2 years so far). I spend money on gas, tires, and entry fees. thats it! the Michelin Power 1's are so awesome they last me a entire weekend at race pace!

lets all remember that this is club racing. $56k a year is a high budget for even those fast guys in the AMA.

[ryan]

if anyone is concerned for the cost of getting the bike, tires, warmers, stands, transponder, blah, blah, blah to race, Ive got a nice setup ready to go for super cheap ha ha! Includes everything necessary plus spares!

Working in the industry, Ive been surrounded by old stories of racing and bombarded with "it was the best time of my life". So this year I was financially ready to race. Got the whole package together raced a few races, had blast. Then motorcycle sales hit a brick wall and I kept racing, despite the declining bank account. Now bank account is gone and I am forced to get a second job, sell my truck, street bike, and race bike, as well as other stuff I would rather have kept. Best time of my life indeed...

[DOUBLE A]

Very Nice!!! And well put, ERIK! I also just started even racing this year w/ no track days/practice fridays or even seen MRA tracks before race 1 pueblo. I run a tired 05' 1000rr, that complains to me every lap, has 35,000 miles plus on it! I have a slip on pipe, pwr. comm. , and a rear shock. And I dont have podiums....yet, but I am consistanly getting better, and on the heels of the top 5, I know I need a ton of more expierence, and All the help I can get, but if you are on a brand new bike, & all the bells, and behind my slow ass, there should be some thought about that B4 spending anouther 1000.00 on your bike...I will definatly will talk to ERIK...& all the other good racers too. That's our sport!

[nobasin]

i got my race license in '07 and raced a complete season entering every class i could (5 classes every weekend) that year and had fully planned on continuing that for years, as racing seemed to be the tonic for my mind i had been seeking for years. '08 found me with surgery in april that kept me off motorcycles and mtn. bikes for the entire summer, and then '09 disintegrated before it started because both my wife and i are self employed, were getting battered by the economy, have 2 mortgages, just had our first baby a couple weeks ago and putting aside enough funds for an 11 race season just wasn't realistic.

i don't need to race to win or even be competitive...racing for me is about the personal challenge and focus required to go fast on any bike, and just simply going fast on a motorcycle. honestly, i'd be happy making laps on my '73 rd250 if it would pass tech. but there is the competitive aspect of it as well, and trying to race an 11 race season seems like too much. that doesn't leave a whole lot time in the summer for much else, other than racing, and family time and simple down time are super important as well on summer weekends.

i think there needs to be some compromise and i like the idea of maybe an 8 or 9 race season, with championships decided by perhaps the best 7 races you can put together. that would allow people to miss a race here and there for any reason, financial or otherwise but still be in the thick of it and feel like their competitive fire still gets fanned.

reading ben fox's post on budget numbers is an eye opener. most motorcycle racers are not 6 figure incomer earners, and the way things are going, to be competitive, you have to be.

bottom line is that it seems the majority of the reasons for not racing are financial. when times are good, people justify the money to race. when times are bad, it's hard to decide between racing or health insurance or any other difficult decisions. racing will lose those battles everytime when it is up against self preservation.

[Ashli]

So, here is what is driving me away from racing. First, let me state that outside of work, racing is what I spend most of my time working towards and thinking about. What is driving me away is major changes to the schedule for the second year in a row. I don't know about the rest of you but I plan my entire summer and a lot of my winter around racing. I assume that most of you are in the same boat. We plan vacation and sometime cut them short in order to be back in time to race. People plan weddings, business travel and family reunions all around the race schedule. Last year, I had to change my wedding plans because the MRA decided to add a race to the end of season. I am lucky to have an understanding wife but the schedule was set, then moved, then set again, then moved again. As members many of us have wives, significant others and helpers whose schedules and lives are effected by these changes as well. We all start making out plans as soon as the schedule is finalized and all of the above mentioned people do the same. Because of the schedule changes from 2006, 2008 and this current season, I may have to find another place to race in the future or maybe just hang it up for a while. The schedule changes get very hard on the races as well as the whole support staff behind each racer.

Dave, I know that was not exactly what you asked but it may be what keeps me from coming back next year!

+1-- I'd say Crash's reason is the second reason we're benched this season.

[HAMMER]

ERIC IS DEAD ON !!!!!! WON A CHAMPIONSHIP ON A BASICLY STOCK R6!!!!!! and top four in HW endurance and HWSB on a 107hp 600

camped at the track , brought my own food . all my cash is for entrys ,PUMP gas , and 1 set of rubber!

and if your fast......tires are almost FREEEEEEEEE

about 6 ta 7 hunski a weekend

and actually as a novice id just run take offs IMO

and if ya miss a weekend . startin in back is fun (MORE SQUIDS TO PASS )

[T Baggins]

So, here is what is driving me away from racing. First, let me state that outside of work, racing is what I spend most of my time working towards and thinking about. What is driving me away is major changes to the schedule for the second year in a row. I don't know about the rest of you but I plan my entire summer and a lot of my winter around racing. I assume that most of you are in the same boat. We plan vacation and sometime cut them short in order to be back in time to race. People plan weddings, business travel and family reunions all around the race schedule. Last year, I had to change my wedding plans because the MRA decided to add a race to the end of season. I am lucky to have an understanding wife but the schedule was set, then moved, then set again, then moved again. As members many of us have wives, significant others and helpers whose schedules and lives are effected by these changes as well. We all start making out plans as soon as the schedule is finalized and all of the above mentioned people do the same. Because of the schedule changes from 2006, 2008 and this current season, I may have to find another place to race in the future or maybe just hang it up for a while. The schedule changes get very hard on the races as well as the whole support staff behind each racer.

Dave, I know that was not exactly what you asked but it may be what keeps me from coming back next year!

+1-- I'd say Crash's reason is the second reason we're benched this season.

Because of the monumental commitment/sacrifice by racer, spouse, friends and family - or because the schedule "may" change??

I'm confused... Seriously, are people are thinking of quitting the MRA because we've made (arguably) one bad choice by adding a race last year and two (not arguably) very necessary choices to cancel the PPIR rounds so the club doesn't vanish into the history books?

Eff me with a rake if it comes down to that. Nobody could have known that PPIR was coming back last year - and it looked to be a good opportunity to get our members back to a track that they love. Also, nobody could have known that our attendance (at the 6 rounds which were scheduled, and ran as scheduled) would be so poor.

Now you're not going to come back (or are considering leaving) because there are now two weekends you DON'T have to spend $1000+ with the MRA this year? :roll:

[clowe]

Tony,

The schedule changes are only part of my point. I understand that the board is doing what it needs to do to save the club. I don't have any issues with that at all. AND, I don't know what my plans are for racing next year, I haven't even finished this one yet. BUT, regardless of the the reasons, I had to adjust my wedding plans last season due to race schedule which we pretty much built our wedding around. That is a pretty tough nut to swallow and explain to new in-laws (I am glad they are so cool). I also changed plans when HPR was not finished as scheduled and our races didn't happen there because the board wanted to hang onto the idea that it would be done (More schedule changes). I am not upset about any of this, it is just hard (again, regardless of reasons) to plan six or seven months of your life, and that of spouses, families and friends only to have schedules change pretty last minute. We were on a vacation last week and I purposely cut it short to be back for PPIR. We book this trip a month and a half ago and planned it longer than that. To extend the trip would have cost an extra $1500 in plan tickets. If I would have booked it that way from the get go I would have paid the same.

Look, I understand why the MRA had to cancel the PPIR rounds and I am fine with it. But, for almost all of us, racing consumes a lot of our lives and in turn, a lot of lives of those who love us and support us. When schedules change, again regardless of the reason, it does have a huge effect on more than just the racers, but also the families, friends and not to mention the vendors.

Tony, I know the board is doing what it needs to do but it doesn't make it any less frustrating. I was just trying to answer Dave's question.

With all that said, thank you and the board for all that you do. I know you have the clubs best interest in mind and that you work (and drink) you ass off for the MRA. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[clowe]

Novices.......

Go read Erik's message again, take it to heart and get to the track. Stop worrying about building you motor or having the most trick parts. Spend you money on a good suspension that works for you, tires and learning to be a better rider. The rest of the stuff will come and be more worthwhile with time.

Again, go read Erik's post and head his words!!!!!!!

Next, get out the track!

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

I agree with Crash's view on racing and how most of my outside work life revolves around the race schedule, bike prep, transporter maintenance, etc.etc. Not everyone can make that kind of committment and I think we've been running off racers who can't.

As an aside, I want to point out that the racers at the Aug 2008 Pueblo raceday meeting voted overwhelmingly to have an 11 race season for 2009 (vs. a shorter one). We also voted by a large margin to make every race count toward championships. I personally thought this was insane. But that's a digression...

But back to Crash's point ... a lot of the ideas being discussed here have the theme of making racing more appealing to racers who have jobs, families, and personal lives outside racing. We need to focus on that somewhat -

I've volunteered to collect up all the ideas being discussed on the forum and do a first pass summary/sorting of them (similar to what I've done for rule proposals). Keep the thoughts coming - I'll figure out a way to post the summary for review...

[dragos13]

As an aside, I want to point out that the racers at the Aug 2008 Pueblo raceday meeting voted overwhelmingly to have an 11 race season for 2009 (vs. a shorter one). We also voted by a large margin to make every race count toward championships. I personally thought this was insane. But that's a digression...


Where are all those race-happy racers now???

[Throttleroller277]

As an aside, I want to point out that the racers at the Aug 2008 Pueblo raceday meeting voted overwhelmingly to have an 11 race season for 2009 (vs. a shorter one). We also voted by a large margin to make every race count toward championships. I personally thought this was insane. But that's a digression...


Where are all those race-happy racers now???

I think broke, for the majority..... the state of the economy wasn't as bad at that point either..... keep that in mind too. 8)

[gixxermike]

Where are all those race-happy racers now???

I voted for that and now I'm in Iraq :(

[Lel399]

Life changes, people change, life priorities change. I have been around the MRA since 2003 and have seen a lot change in the organization in that time. We have lost SCR, CDR, sorta lost/regained PPIR, La Junta… Things definitely have changed in the past 6 years, I guess that’s also what’s happened with me. My life priorities have changed.

It’s not that I don’t want to ride, because I do, and I enjoy it; but finding time to practice and race when I have been having such a great time with my wife Beth playing dog sports, camping etc; it does not leave much time for racing. I really enjoy spending time with her and she has put a lot of time and effort into my racing the past few years (and recovery from crashes), not only is it fair to her for me to take it easy from racing for a while, but its fun for me to do other things as well!

Of course the money is an issue, but as people have said most racers will do whatever they need to in order to race when they want to; and I am no different. What it has come down to for me is not so much the money to actually race but it’s the money to practice/ride to ENJOY the sport. I got into this not to make money/break even as a lot of the top guys can, but to enjoy racing, enjoy my weekends, enjoy open throttle in a safe environment. As I said above we have lost a lot of local, easy to get to tracks. Its not the loss of the venue’s variety that bothers me, but the apparent venue’s loss of competition with each other.

It used to be $45 Thursday bike night at SCR, used to be $45 half day at pueblo and you could roll in at 10:30-11 and set up your stuff and take your time before you start riding, CDR was the same way. You would show up at SCR and be out there on your bike all street-ed up with lights taped up and then some ‘numbered’ bike would come blowing by your ‘fast’ 1:20 laptime (hahah god I remember when breaking into the ‘teens’ was a big step at SCR). Trust me, I understand some of the stringent safety stuff for obvious reasons, but this is no longer an easy sport to just ‘get into’ in Colorado as it was just 5 or 6 years ago. To me it seems like tracks now know there is nothing else around, so if you’re going to ride you will do it their way and pay their fees or its the highway; and they are taking it to the racers wallets hard. I really think the way it used to be was a HUGE part of getting new racers; and with these changes the way they are now, the racers who knew it the previous ways are not as inclined to stick around for the new ‘experience’.

What is it now, $150 a day @ HPR? A track that we as members are supposed to own? I understand the costs it takes to set up the track, get it built, make it operational, pay back debt etc, so there is no reason to shove that back at me. However, no longer having the ability to ride half days (not even being allowed in the track until what is it? 12:30 to set up is not a half day, and not worth the $90 or whatever it is and no longer morning half days? Doesn’t work well when we get afternoon storms every day). I live in Highlands Ranch, and I can make it to HPR only roughly 15 mins quicker then Pueblo (at most!) so it’s not a closer track for me so the ‘ease’ of just going to the track to enjoy a day is definitely not there. I have yet to ride HPR after donating my $300 to it, I really want to, but haven’t found the time or the desire to schedule a day to go ride (as I said gone are the days of ‘hey I want to go ride today’).

The other thing that worries me is that this is a dangerous sport; and it always has been. I know that I make my own choices when I go on the track; but what scare’s me is not me, but other riders. At $150 a day, how much are people practicing at a track? How much are local people riding? You go into a turn with a rider that never rides other than when they race and feel they might be able to go in just as hot as the guy in front of them, without the experience of that speed, or the front pushing on the entry etc. A lot of new racers have their big head because they were the fastest guy in the canyons, yet have never ridden ‘against’ racers and think they are just as fast or faster. Sometimes they are, but more often then not, they are no where close to the speed of ANY experienced racer; but think they are fast enough to try and go into a turn inside that other racer… we know how these type of situations turn out.

This is not just novice/am classes where you have the ‘new racer’. I believe Endurance, Vintage, SuperTwins are all classes that a Novice can ride in. So if you say, ‘don’t race those classes where a new rider may be in’; while those are the ‘relaxing’ classes. Besides go to MWSB, MWSS or the like; every guy is fighting for the lead and thinks they are the next number 1; these classes are FAR more dangerous to be mid pack than front of pack, and no one that is a casual rider wanting to just have fun will end up front of pack in this type of class.

So I guess that leaves me at $150 a day for a track day and occasional racing, and at that rate it is coming close to the prices of tracks like Pahrump (I think $185/day last time I was there), Laguna, MMP, Las Vegas Classic Course…. Etc, destination tracks that could be mini vacations and have something Beth can do in town while I ride for a day. If I am going to have to now plan out a day, ride in sessions, take a day off work etc to ride at a local track, I might as well start having fun riding at new places with different track day organizations. Go somewhere where I get the thrill of riding without the worry that the guy behind me might have only been on the track 3 times EVER and is now racing and is coming barreling into Turn1 with no idea how to hold a line or pass with a degree of care. As club racers, we all know Monday will always pay better than Sunday, but that is often forgotten when the light goes green and the adrenaline kicks in.

I guess my very long winded response is why I am not around this year. I do miss it, I would like to be around, and I will be around at some point; maybe this year, maybe next, who knows.

Jason Leleck
#399

[dragos13]

I voted for that and now I'm in Iraq :(

I applaud your service no doubt. You have a very valid excuse.

Do you think next year we can try a smaller race season? I was all for the 11 race season but I really think that detered alot of the other racers from coming back. Like Brownie said, the economy kept getting worse and now its hard to afford an 11 round season.

Maybe if it was only 8 races to begin with, more experts would be in the points?

PS: Jason we miss you!!!!!

[2Blue]

Since you asked, I'll get this off of my chest. It's been a strange year for me. It's my second year racing and it's my first year as an expert. By the end of my novice season, I was starting to feel pretty confident on my stock R1, until my family and I witnessed Clarkie sliding down the track lifeless at ppir and Glenn performing CPR on him. While I never met Clarkie until a month ago, I always enjoyed watching him race. I consistently followed his status on the getwellclarkie site. After seeing how well he's recovered, in some sort of strange way, I'm starting to get some confidence back. His event has had a serious impact on my decisions to get on the track. I know what we do is very dangerous and crashes are a part of racing, I just hate them! So to answer your question, I must humbly admit that my limited turn out is do to fear, which I'm slowly overcoming. See ya at HPR.

Curt

[gixxermike]

You have a very valid excuse.

I definitely rather be there than here making vroom vroom sounds and kicking sand around... :lol:

But like alot of guys have said it's all about the $$ and i had to make the decision to come contract over here for a year or 2 b/c when I got out of the military last year there were no jobs.

[jmart]

Well put guys. To piggy back on what Crash, Ben, and others have posted, I was one who was concerned that my ex-commuter bike was not going to fair well this season. I entered the season on a shoe string budget so I was approaching this year to just gain experience and have FUN. All inquiring racers take heed of the advice from other novices & seasoned experts. You DO NOT need the latest and greatest of go fast parts on your bike to be competitive. I ran take offs up until the last round in Pueblo. Granted I’m not the fastest guy out there, but I’m learning how to control the slides (take offs :o ) and having a blast chasing the guys and girl ahead of me. If you love the sport and the rush it provides, than by all means run take offs and push your existing bike to the limits before worrying about SS or SB builds and race fuels.

2nd wave, who cares. If you’re confident on your bike, make up 3 or 4 rows on the start and get up there. By the next round who knows, you might just make the first wave. If you are on the fence about it, come out! You’ll be glad you did. And for next season, at Christmas, ask for a set of tires. :wink: Ok, back to your regular scheduled program.

Jessie
135

[ctb]

I have withheld contribution to this thread because my/our circumstances may be fairly unique, as I don't know of anyone else who was on a bike racing 7 weeks after giving birth, but here goes, as succinctly as possible:

I raced my first season in 2007, a FULL season, not missing a race despite injury and financial crunch. My husband did as well (with the exception of two races he could not run due to a dislocated shoulder) Two riders, two bikes, all the races near and far...boy THAT WAS PRICEY! Not to mention time consuming, but definitely FUN! I worked my way up to start first wave each time in both novis classes and fought it out with the same peeps most weekends. Not burning up the track, but improving. I ran the last two races of the season pregnant (go ahead, flame away) still (naively) thinking..."well I am due in April, so I will have to miss that first round in 2008, but after that, no problem." WRONG.

I DID return to the second round of 2008 7 weeks after giving birth, and promptly crashed, separated my shoulder, couldn't pick-up my daughter, and honestly lost all interest. Priorities change, people get older, wiser and reassess what is truly important. I sat out the rest of the season because, honestly, my daughter is more important than anything else. Alan did continue to race, though, and only missed 2 rounds, I think.

Fast forward to this year...
We have two bikes, one well-prepped, one getting up there in age needing a fair amount of "refreshing" ($$), so we decide to share. Our races we used to run are back to back and we have our daughter at the track who we can't just hand over on the hot pit lane. that means someone is not running races they used to run, so between Alan and I we are doing half the classes we used to (me even more so since I switched from a 600 to a 750...) We both skip the first weekend because of more important things (10 people coming into town for our daughter's birthday) and catch the 2nd round. Now instead of feeling like we are "wow, paying a lot for each running 3 classes" we feel like we are getting bent over for running fewer. I did NGTO, and started WELL back in the second wave, since I missed the first round. I get a fine start, work my way through people, just to have some newb blow past me into a turn, highside in front of me, which diverted me off track, only to have to pass all those people I already passed, who scared the crap out of me with their "lines" the first time I passed them. It rained the next day and I went home. I have not been back since. To distill this down, here are MY reasons...

1) Family comes first. If they are in town, I am with them, if it is crappy and not fun for my daughter to be at the track, we go home. Maybe the demographics of our club are becoming "family" aged now? Could just be me.

2) Money, of course, but this actually isn't the biggest deal, even in a year where we are buying a new house. What is a deal breaker for me as far as the finances go is how much it costs to do ONE race. That is EXACTLY what has kept me from doing just that one race, when I can't do more.

3) Lingering injury (see round 2, 2008)

4) (as Ben eluded to in the qulifying thread) Grid position for someone that is not a "workhorse" out there every race, for whatever reason. I am not rossi-esque in my speed, but I'd like to ride with people similar in speed and ability to my self and not have to check -up 15 times a lap because I have no clue what the person ahead of me thinks they are doing. (p.s. yes, I know, I know, don't worry about the other person, but I HAVE TO NOW)

I don't know WHICH, if any, of these issues is familiar to anyone else, or even if they are the reasons for my husband, but that is my $0.02. Lots of good points made by others, too that I can relate to. I will be there in 2 weeks, because it was implored of us, but after that...not sure.

[cu260r6]

I raced with the MRA for 4 years on and off, making about 70% of the races each year. I have not raced yet this year due to constraints on my time and funds, but I am all set to do the next three HPR races if they happen. I started a new job, which I really enjoy, but I cannot take any days off to race or practice. I'm not going to go racing unless I can fully commit to it. Gridding up at the back each race isn't helping entice many racers back either.

My first year racing I did fairly well, enjoyed the experience immensely, and improved at a rate I was pleased with because I had the time and funds to make racing a priority. In subsequent seasons I never had both the time and the money on the same weekend to consistently ride as fast as I felt I could. I expect the vast majority of racers sitting on the sidelines are doing so because of one of those two reasons, but the MRA can only really affect one. When a set of tires are approaching $500, race gas is $100 for a weekend, then $200 in entry fees is a relatively small portion of a racer's total costs. It's an even smaller percentage when considering the cost to setting up a bike. However, making racing more competitive for everyone by eliminating the time necessary to build and maintain a competitive bike and increasing the practice time or options available is within the MRA's control. If the club is losing $$$ dramatically then minute changes are not going to solve anything. A severe class/rulebook/procedure change might be in order.

Increasing revenue by attracting new riders is the only other option. The MRA does appear to some like a very closed group that takes a long time to break into. I met some great people racing, but I always felt like I was treated as an outsider by some. I came to to the track to go as fast as I could on the bike alone, but I became very tired of being treated by some slow, uptight people as if I was some punk miscreant because I didn't fit their mold or have all their resources. New racers of this type are growing fewer and fewer. The ones with the time and means will continue to race, but being more flexible to the ones that are limited in these will go a long way to attracting more racers that are on the fence.

Finally, the fixed costs that I've heard the MRA spend money on seem excessive to me. Snail mailings are so 1900's :D Why not put everything online, or even use an email list? How much does printing a rulebook, license app, and ballot and sending them to every rider cost? Also, the banquet seems like an expendable cost in these economic times, although is this is self sufficient with ticket sales?

[PrillerGrrl]

I hit an unprotected wall at PPIR last October and died, twice :cry:

No one knew, but PPIR last October was always going to be my last race so going to the track now and not racing is easy for me :)

*hug*

Katie
188

[froth]

gixxermike:

Any openings in the logistics field over there? Transportation(port ops, driver, HAZMAT cert, etc...Hardwood Flooring?)

Keep safe.

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

..but I am all set to do the next three HPR races if they happen.
Good to hear!

Gridding up at the back each race isn't helping entice many racers back either.
We may want to look at qualifying for grid spots again for next year. I know you could get farther up if we did that.


However, making racing more competitive for everyone by eliminating the time necessary to build and maintain a competitive bike and increasing the practice time or options available is within the MRA's control.
It is, kind of, if by "within the MRA's control" you mean the entire club. The rules are set by the members wishing to participate in the rule change process. The practice time is a schedule balance against holding more races.

Increasing revenue by attracting new riders is the only other option.
I totally agree.

The MRA does appear to some like a very closed group that takes a long time to break into. I met some great people racing, but I always felt like I was treated as an outsider by some.
That was because of your mohak helmet. :wink:

I came to to the track to go as fast as I could on the bike alone, but I became very tired of being treated by some slow, uptight people as if I was some punk miscreant because I didn't fit their mold or have all their resources.
Hmm... I'm starting to envision a new race class .. "punk/miscreant" - nominees - Charles, Hammer, Turtle, Brownie, .. am I getting close?

Snail mailings are so 1900's :D Why not put everything online, or even use an email list? How much does printing a rulebook, license app, and ballot and sending them to every rider cost? Also, the banquet seems like an expendable cost in these economic times, although is this is self sufficient with ticket sales?
People beat up the MRA board if we change something at the last minute and "only" announce it electronically. The rulebook, licenses, and most of the other stuff is self-funding - notice the advertisements in the rulebook (thanks Nude & Ricky). There are also some things we're required to do by the by-laws - like notification of an annual meeting.

The banquet is definitely at risk. It *can* fund itself if we have sufficient attendence. It's usually financially edgy. I'm thinking this year might be an outdoor pot-luck @ HPR. Bring your coat.

... on second thought .. with all the damn huge RV's in the club, maybe we make it a "progressive dinner" type thing where each RV'er makes something and people wander between them to get stuff to eat.

[Wild Cheetah 612]

You guys are posting up some really awesome stuff! Keep it rolling! This exactly what the Board needs to hear and I appreciate everyone's honesty and civility. With Jim compiling all this info, we can make our decisions based on what YOU, the member, wants and not just what WE, the board, THINK you want!
http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Respect/bravo-009.gif

[gixxermike]

Any openings in the logistics field over there? Transportation(port ops, driver, HAZMAT cert, etc...Hardwood Flooring?)


Pm'd u!

[froth]

Got the info. Thanks.