PPIR rounds 7 and 11 canceled

[The GECCO]

All,

Due to declining entry numbers the board has decided to cancel rounds 7 and 11 at PPIR. We simply cannot afford to race at this venue given the revenues we have brought in from the last three races. The three remaining HPR rounds will go on as scheduled. This will leave us with a 9 race season.

We will try to notify the entire club in every way possible in the next week, but please communicate this news to anyone that you think may not get the message.

Glenn

[EdDuenez]

:cry:

[TRK]

Any chance we pick up a race at Pueblo or High Plains on the same dates?

[dragos13]

Couldn't we have cancelled an HPR event in order to save one of the PPIR rounds?

+1 for picking up another round somewhere else.

[Edda Tully]

I second a race at PMP

[froth]

I believe that the costs of HPR are significantly less than Pueblo or PPIR, so although it's abummer (I really want to go back to PPIR after last year), I think it is the most prudent thing to do. Gotta love this recession, but I have hope that that will change.

[The GECCO]

There will not be any races added to the schedule.

The club has lost a lot of money this season due to declining entries. Hastings and the most recent Pueblo were abysmal. We need to get our participation numbers UP. If people are already skipping races for financial reasons, adding races to the schedule won't help the problem. By cutting the remainder of the schedule to 3 races instead of 5 we are hopeful that more people will enter and it will help the club financially.

Another reason we won't add races at other venues is that because the MRA is a part owner of HPR one of our main concerns is to make sure HPR stays in good financial shape. If keeping both the club and the track afloat means that we go to a shorter season and only race at HPR in 2010, that's what we'll do.

We'll post more after the board meeting monday night.

[auzzy]

if thats the case then count me out

[Sprtbkbabe]

Darn! I might have made Pueblo if this had come around earlier. Now I'm down two race weekends w/MRA :(

Well, get to pick up another lapping day then!

[racedk6]

if thats the case then count me out


WTF Auzzy your not goin anywhere we have a score to settle fool!

Bummer PPIR will not be raced but I would rather have the club at a good financial standing at the end of this year so it wont negatively effect what happens next year.

[nwatkins176]

I think it is in best interest to keep the club in good financial standing. It is a shame if the we have to go to the HPRMA next season as one of the draws to the MRA for me was the ability to go to different tracks.

If the MRA does go to only HPR next year, would it make financial since to keep running HPR and MRA as two seperate businesses? It seems the best business desicion would be to have HPR have its own race series. That would be profitable for HPR, but it seems MRA would demise. Sorry I am rambling, I don't want to see the club only race at one track, but if it does it seems the MRA would be absorded by HPR.

Thoughts...

[Tipys]

I don't want to see the club only race at one track, but if it does it seems the MRA would be absorded by HPR.

Thoughts...

Well even if the MRA only raced at only HPR next season. I don't see it staying that way forever. I mean look at last season it was only PMI and Hastings. Then got lucky with ending the season at PPIR know one was expecting that to happen.

[racedk6]

I think it is in best interest to keep the club in good financial standing. It is a shame if the we have to go to the HPRMA next season as one of the draws to the MRA for me was the ability to go to different tracks.

If the MRA does go to only HPR next year, would it make financial since to keep running HPR and MRA as two seperate businesses? It seems the best business desicion would be to have HPR have its own race series. That would be profitable for HPR, but it seems MRA would demise. Sorry I am rambling, I don't want to see the club only race at one track, but if it does it seems the MRA would be absorded by HPR.

Thoughts...


It would suck to run only one track but HPR does have different configs to run as well.

Another thing to think about is... are the entry fees for races going to go up as well. Also when HPR gets the facilities everybody wants, like showers and restrooms will the rental fee have a huge hike in price because of the up keep and water bills.

There are alot of things to take into account when dealing with a safe financial move for the MRA and I hope the MRA board members make the move in the right direction so we dont have an cancellations mid season next year or a 1 track only series.

I dont want to have to resort in going to other race clubs next year to race all summer.

[jplracing]

Another reason we won't add races at other venues is that because the MRA is a part owner of HPR one of our main concerns is to make sure HPR stays in good financial shape. If keeping both the club and the track afloat means that we go to a shorter season and only race at HPR in 2010, that's what we'll do.



It is important to remember that the MRA's responsiblity is to keep the MRA afloat. I understand that the MRA and its members are highly invested in HPR. However any investment comes with inherent risks. As such, it is my opinion that the two organizations need to be run as separate organizations. Should the MRA, in its efforts to keep the MRA solvent, decided to utilize HPR to a great extent then so be it.

With that said I think only racing HPR now and in the future will be doing a great disservice to the members of this club.

[The GECCO]

Another reason we won't add races at other venues is that because the MRA is a part owner of HPR one of our main concerns is to make sure HPR stays in good financial shape. If keeping both the club and the track afloat means that we go to a shorter season and only race at HPR in 2010, that's what we'll do.



It is important to remember that the MRA's responsiblity is to keep the MRA afloat. I understand that the MRA and its members are highly invested in HPR. However any investment comes with inherent risks. As such, it is my opinion that the two organizations need to be run as separate organizations. Should the MRA, in its efforts to keep the MRA solvent, decided to utilize HPR to a great extent then so be it.

With that said I think only racing HPR now and in the future will be doing a great disservice to the members of this club.

To the contrary, the disservice would be doing things that negatively effect the feasibility of the club and/or the track. The clubs cannot survive w/o HPR and HPR cannot survive if the clubs start going out of business. While it may not be as enjoyable, a series running only HPR may be the only way to save the club. Obviously there are not enough people out there that can run an 11 race season (or maybe even a 9 race season) to keep the club profitable. I say that because, frankly, right now the club is in serious financial trouble and we are going to have make even more changes to insure our survival. When less than 80 people show up at Hastings and less than 90 at Pueblo, we lose enormous amounts of money (>$20,000 loss at MPH, >$10,000 loss at Pueblo), and the events that have been in the black haven't been barnburners from an income standpoint. This isn't something we're doing because we think it's a neat idea.

In order to keep participation numbers up high enough to have events in the black we may have to trim it back to a 6-8 race series next year, and we should run as many of them as possible at HPR. If your family owns a grocery store, you do your shopping there, don't you? Of course you do - it's cheaper for you and it also helps your own store stay open. You may also shop at other stores occasionally but if your food budget gets cut in half, you shouldn't continue to shop at other stores while neglecting your own.

Have we already gotten so spoiled that the idea of only racing at the newest and best track in the region is so awful?

[cromer611]

well if the MRA's "Survival plan" fails, then im sellin my shit and goin sumo racin.
cuz we all know its cheaper, and probly more fun than finding out the $$ we spent on goin 7hours to some craptastic track could have been avoided. then we coulda still ran at PPIR, cuz dem garages are pimp.

anyway, so i suppose there is an open trackday at hpr instead?

[cromer611]

oh yeah! Mile High Nationals?!?!

[jplracing]

First I understand arguing on the internet is kind of pointless.

However, I think my point was missed. The MRA is a separate organization from HPR, on paper, as a organization filed with the state, and (I assume) separate returns to the IRS. Therefore, it is a separate entity and should be governed as such. Thus my comment that the MRA has the responsiblity of keeping the MRA solvent and should not put HPR's profitablity above the MRA's or the needs of its members

With that said I am in full agreement that if HPR is a portion of the solution, by all means we should use every avenue available to us. I also assume that the discussion by the board will also include ways to increase both rider participation as well as spectator revenue.

However, we are not individual owners of HPR. If we were, we would be receiving quarterly financial statements and dividends showing our return on our investment. In fact I am a member of a organization that chose to invest in the construction of the new track (a decision I agree with). As a member of the MRA and not HPR, my expectations are that the MRA's well being will be prioritized before HPR's. While HPR is a nice facility, and I will enjoy racing there in the future, I also have expectations of a variety of venues and the MRA putting the needs of motorcycle racing and racers ahead of the needs of one track.

[froth]

What I see is this/ We are in a world of d**d** with regards money. In order to stay solvent, we may have to pare(sic) down a bit for one or twseasons, to ride out the economic downturn. Let's face it, racing costs money, and few of us have much to spare.

I would like to race HPR, MPH, PIR, PMR, and whatever else is around, but I'm off over 60% income from recent times(Yes, independant flooring contractor), and I have to make the best of the times. If it comes down to it, I would much rather have our board face the difficulty of re-entering tracks after a year(or more) off, than have no board, club, etc, next year. Sux, to be sure, but a small club beats no club.

Crap, I need/want a beer, and a shock spanner, so I can do suspension work(harboring the fantasy that I can ride the SV nearly as well as I simply hang on to the KTM).

Hope to see you all at the next round. Be careful, gang, and have as much fun as we can afford.

Fred

[GNGSXR]

As a member of the MRA and not HPR, my expectations are that the MRA's well being will be prioritized before HPR's. . . I also have expectations of a variety of venues and the MRA putting the needs of motorcycle racing and racers ahead of the needs of one track. \:D/

[gyrtr1]

Wah Wah Wah!!! Gee, I would think that the decision made to cancel a couple races would be supported a bit easier than it is. And to boot alot haven't even said anything yet. SUMO RACING?? Please.

Lets point out some facts shall we?

1. We all voted on 11 races because we all said we would go. At that time the MRA saw it would be a benifit.

Did that mean only the top 10 contenders would attend all these races and keep the MRA in a better financial state? Think not!!!

2. The lack of participants to these recent races has seriously affected that decision thus leaving it to a 9 race season anyway.

We had a 9 race season before didn't we? Hmmm.

3. The club seems to be "paying" for everything it seems.

Where's our volunteers we "really" need to put money back into the club? What are the members/racers really doing? Board members excluded of course. No one really does anything much.

4. The economy sucks right now and it affects everything.

Why are we bitchin about this anyway?

Heres the way I see this:

We chose to have 11 races because everyone wanted that. We all said we would attend. It didn't happen. Now that the board recognized a problem their trying to correct it. If we the members/racers did more and got more people out to the races this wouldn't be happening. If we volunteered more of our time to the club we would have more in the bank and less to pay out this may not be happening. When I'm at the races I see no one that races out on the track helpin out. Just people bitchin about why our turnout is so low. Too many people are out for themselves and not looking at the big picture:

I want to race and what ever decision the board makes to keep me doing that I'm fine with. AND SO SHOULD EVERYONE ELSE!!!!
Its suppose to be fun right? Its disappointing to see some of what is being said already and unfortunate those individuals feel that way. Those are the ones that don't care much for the club and only about what they think. I for one do and will do what I can if/when that time comes. In the mean time I support the club. 100%

To the rest of you that want to Bitch? Where is your help and support? If not, at least be understanding to the reasons behind this. Be glad we are racing at all. Not about poor little 'ol you.

Rick Grosse #20

[oldtimer]

IMO HPR is the best track we've ever had in this state--I love racing there! It'll be even better when I have a permanent structure to pee in!!

How bout attending the Wednesday night MRA meeting at The Walnut Room 7pm to discuss how to support and maintain our great club. Whatever the current obstacles I want to see the MRA thrive. :)

[racedk6]

IMO HPR is the best track we've ever had in this state--I love racing there! It'll be even better when I have a permanent structure to pee in!!

How bout attending the Wednesday night MRA meeting at The Walnut Room 7pm to discuss how to support and maintain our great club. Whatever the current obstacles I want to see the MRA thrive. :)

I will be there 8)

[JimWilson29]

Sorry Wyeth I am hosting bike night again Wednesday or I would definately be at the MRA meeting. We had about 250 show up at the last event and it would be great if we had some kind of media or flyers promoting the MRA and HPR to distibute in order generate more spectators and possible new racers.

Rick Grosse- this thread contains alot of replies of MRA members voicing their opinions on a major issue of which they are entitled to do so. There is no reason to slam them with your "Wah Wah Wah!!!" After reading through these, the only reply that has a whining tone to it is yours. There is no reason to attack anyone on here because they state they are gonna go race super moto instead. And when did the members vote on an 11 race season? Don't get me wrong, I actually am in complete support of it but I believe the schedule was a board decision. I think we can keep this thread going with alot of civil responses and good opinions.

I support the MRA and I support HPR. I want to see both entities survive. I agree with Glenn's statement that the MRA needs HPR in order to do so. But I also agree with Joe Logalbo's position that the MRA needs to remain a seperate entity and that its financial stability should be the priority of the board and members.

[Sprtbkbabe]

HPR is a dream come true for all of us. We each have an opinion and hope that it is heard.

With that as a new racer in the MRA, I'd like to ask all of you how much losing other tracks would cost us all in the end because we choose to only race at HPR?

I understand the point of view that HPR is a club track and needs to be supported. However, the MRA is not just a one track organization. Most racers I know of would prefer to race on a variety of tracks throughout a season.

MRA is an organization of racers. HPR is a racing facility that is used by our organization of racers. If we sell ourselves to one track, we will kick ourselves in our own asses in due time.

Pueblo is not my first option for a race. And Hastings is a heck of a long way on my serious budget. However, Pueblo and Hastings have been incredible, WONDERFUL, and over-extending to our organization. We need to keep these tracks alive and see if they can work with our budget. After all, isnt even Pueblo cheaper than running at HPR? If cost is a factor, was this reviewed as a group?

In addition, if PPIR is so expensive, why not race there once and cut an HPR race? Advantage to this, would be we could still be at a track that most racers would prefer. PPIR is very much sought after this season for a group of us.

The next meeting really needs to have as many racers show up and voice their opinions on this.

[Desmodromico]

I am left wondering how many people were waiting to enroll for PPIR still, we had computer issues before the last round and it has been down since Pueblo...is it possible we could have gotten enough to make it work this week? I for one was waiting for it to open up again...

[nude]

I am not surprised by the decision of the board to cancel some races. At TrackAddix we decided to to drop the Great Plains CCS race series before the start of the season due to dwindling numbers and economic concerns. This is not unique to the MRA. I believe that the board is taking the necessary steps to see that the club will survive.

It is obvious from this forum that some of these decisions have caused concern. Many years ago I had the opportunity to help shape the club by being on the board for four years. Since there are a few positions that are up for reelection in November, if you are really an advocate for our club, this is certainly a way to make a big difference! I hope that many of you are thinking about running for these positions.

OK sorry if that was a bit preachy : )

On a side note, if you still want to get some track time and instruction, Jason Prodmore's Star School will be at HPR on July 13th and 14th. I went to this school last year in Hastings and it helped me to drop 1.5 seconds there. Jason teaches most of the classroom sessions himself and is really down to earth and approachable. I will be there both days. If you are curious about the school drop me a PM.

Mark Nudelman
MRA #72

[gyrtr1]

Jim Wilson, the board decided after the end of last season/beginning of this one when it was a topic of conversation at one of our last races based on the positive reaction everyone had to the question. Or do you not remember that? Of course I must add that my "whining tone" definitely IS my opinion. If I point out the obvious and others take offense to it then so be it but in all reality...... its the truth. Regardless of how you put it. Its not only on the forum that this is heard. Being as though I do what I do, I hear plenty and my opinion is solely based on the whining of others. I'll be happy no matter what the MRA does as long as its able to keep things going for everyone.

My whole point is to let those that have forgotten what the club wants to do. Remember that we need everyone here to help out and not leave something undone that may have a larger effect on the future of this club. I know the boards goals and decisions are in the best interest of the members---not themselves. And some times you need to step back to go forward.

[glenngsxr]

I think everyone needs to calm down a bit and let's keep this civil. It's a tough decision and if the money is not there, then it ain't there. This is a really simple situation if you ask me. We are in a recession, which means people watch how much DISCRETIONARY spending they commit. Racing is most decidedly a discretionary spending sport. We do not need to get up in arms about anything. The recession(and the cut in # of races) will pass and membership will be up again and everything will be healthy. This is a cyclical event and we are at the bottom of the cycle. Nothing new. Let's cut races out. Let the club and members recoup a little $$$ and come back strong next year. If you want to pout and go do SUMO, be prepared to start the race with all 6 other people on the grid with you. Everyone is affected by the recession. Glenn #62

[TRK]

"This is a cyclical event and we are at the bottom of the cycle."

Wow, do you have some stock tips as well? Or ideas on real estate?
:shock:

[glenngsxr]

Shannon,
You are a funny one! Buy oil stocks, they are cheap right now and it will go back up, guaranteed. As for housing, I think we have seen bottom in the interest rates, but not prices.

On a serious note, we ALL know the economy is cyclical and it affects everyone, even racers. Glenn #62

[PremiumBlend]

Shannon,
You are a funny one! Buy oil stocks, they are cheap right now and it will go back up, guaranteed. As for housing, I think we have seen bottom in the interest rates, but not prices.

On a serious note, we ALL know the economy is cyclical and it affects everyone, even racers. Glenn #62

The economy is cyclical, but the ones who survive are the ones that take action when necessary. I see that the board is taking action, no question there.... but right now the board is simply being reactive and not proactive. The right steps are being taken to tighten the belt, now lets figure out how to be proactive and take steps in new directions. When the economy is bad, thinking WAYYY outside of the box becomes a necessity.

[Throttleroller277]

The economy is cyclical, but the ones who survive are the ones that take action when necessary. I see that the board is taking action, no question there.... but right now the board is simply being reactive and not proactive. The right steps are being taken to tighten the belt, now lets figure out how to be proactive and take steps in new directions. When the economy is bad, thinking WAYYY outside of the box becomes a necessity.

Will you be at the General meeting this Wednesday to The Walnut Room?

[PremiumBlend]

The economy is cyclical, but the ones who survive are the ones that take action when necessary. I see that the board is taking action, no question there.... but right now the board is simply being reactive and not proactive. The right steps are being taken to tighten the belt, now lets figure out how to be proactive and take steps in new directions. When the economy is bad, thinking WAYYY outside of the box becomes a necessity.

Will you be at the General meeting this Wednesday to The Walnut Room?

I'm not a member yet, is it ok if I come?

[Throttleroller277]

I'm not a member yet, is it ok if I come?

Yes... You are more than welcome to attend. Open to the public. You don't even have to be a motorcycle person to attend. 8)

[Desmodromico]

I'll be there Wednesday....as a noob I am just trying to figure out what the hell I have gotten into here!

[dave.gallant]

The following in no way is against anything posted by the MRA Board; it is just an opinion:

The MRA's mission statement should be something of the following:

The Motorcycle Roadracing Association exists to sanction and operate amateur motorcycle racing events in and around the Rocky Mountain Region.

Note that no where in the above does it state the MRA's mission has anything to do with track or land ownership.

It is a perfectly valid viewpoint that "without the tracks, there is no MRA". It simply is not mine. I purchased my MRA racing license over the years to race motorcycles. Independent of the "how" or the "where" the racing is sanctioned, the overriding truth should be that racing is indeed sanctioned in some way, shape, or form.

I support how the Board chooses to operate the organization and continue the ability to provide racing events to its members. I do this because we all voted them into office.

[cromer611]

i guess it comes down to
A: raise entry fees to balance out the poor attendance.
or
B: Cancel 2 ppir races.

after sleeping on it, i think id much rather have B. PPIR is a awesome track and all. but maybe next year not racing in hastings would help us save some $ for just a three venue season in 2010 (HPR,PPIR,PMP)

[Resident Chaplain]

Greetings;
I may not be the best communicator or inspirational speaker / motivator, however; I do know that if we allow to let the storms or finances or discourse to remain, we are defeated.
My advise is; lets hang on to what we have, PROMOTE the balance of the season, give it the best of what we are made of, don't throw the towel in. We have too much invested in our own credibility, club and track. Sounds like a good sermon, NO, it's accountability! There is light at the end of the tunnel, I assure you! Quit looking at the storm, batten the hatches, come out fighting when the storm subsides! While the battle rages, we get discouraged, but in the end we win! Read the last chapter!

"Boots"

[Snowman]

Has anyone considered dropping three races and leaving one race at PPIR and one at HPR?

[PremiumBlend]

Has anyone considered dropping three races and leaving one race at PPIR and one at HPR?

Cromer had a good idea a couple posts above. Drop Hastings all together (Hastings track owners will understand the current predicament and should have no problem with reentry in 2011) run 1 round @ PPIR, 5 - 6 rounds @ HPR and 2 - 3 rounds @ PMP.

I would rather race over and over at the same track vs. not racing at all.

[Snowman]

I agree dropping Hastings for 2010 is a good idea. However, I was speaking of the current racing schedule.

[PremiumBlend]

I agree dropping Hastings for 2010 is a good idea. However, I was speaking of the current racing schedule.

Gotcha. Isn't it to late in the season to make adjustments like that though?

[T Baggins]

Has anyone considered dropping three races and leaving one race at PPIR and one at HPR?

We're meeting as a Board tonight to discuss all of this, and there are many valid points being raised.

It's really pretty simple though:

Because of the abysmal turnout and race entries this year, THREE of our 6 events so far have lost money - BIG time! Even if it were VERY well attended, we would not be likely to make a profit at PPIR - because it (and Hastings) are the most expensive tracks for us to rent. At this point we need to do more than simply make a profit, we need to build some cushion back in.

Historically (like over the last 20 years) the best turnouts have been at the track nearest Denver, for obvious reasons, for both racers and spectators... Therefore HPR is the clear choice as far as the best possible turnout - regardless of "who owns it". Pueblo has historically been very good as well for racers (though not spectators)... but this past event showed us something very different. Round 6 at Pueblo had somewhat fewer than 90. The members also made it very clear that they didn't want to return to Hastings... as we had about 75 TOTAL entries for each day of the double header! Versus a normal turnout of between 120 & 150 riders. At about $220 per rider, you do the math... we're off a TON of money compared to what we're used to seeing.

It is the hope of the Board that by reducing the races on the schedule and holding the races nearer to the majority of our members (and population centers) we will have a better turnout and thusly generate more income.

Obviously MUCH more info to follow, and I highly encourage people to come to the General meeting on Wednesday. We can use all the strength of the members at this point to right the course and finish out with a good, solid 2009 race season!

[Throttleroller277]

I have a question:

What is it about PPIR that some of you want to be there so badly?

1- is it just that it is a different track and layout? (only 1 mile long)

2- is it the garages?

3- is it the name/status (Pipe Peak INTERNATIONAL Raceway)?

Not that it will change the current Board's decision...... I'm just curious
8)

[cromer611]

dem garages make me feel like a G.


besides, i could hang my disco ball in der.

also, sub minute lap times makes you feel fast!

[Snowman]

I have been racing in many different sports for a long time, with several types of originations, and even with different organizations competing for the same racers. So I have seen this sort of thing before.

Racers (in general) want to race as many tracks as possible. (the same reason most people who ski will ski several different resorts in a season, variety) The racing organization constrained by their budget, has to pick and chose the venues they can afford. This typically gives the races fewer track choices to race and so less of an interest in racing for that particular organization. With less racers interested, the organization has a smaller budget. And so on…

It seems to me if you are unable to afford the number of races you want to run at the tracks the racers want, then the first consideration as an organization would be the run fewer races at as many venues as you can. Reducing the cost for both you and the racers and keeping their interest in racing with you.

The second would be to raise the fees necessary to assure the organization can run the tracks the racers want.

And third would be cutting venues.

[PremiumBlend]

I have been racing in many different sports for a long time, with several types of originations, and even with different organizations competing for the same racers. So I have seen this sort of thing before.

Racers (in general) want to race as many tracks as possible. (the same reason most people who ski will ski several different resorts in a season, variety) The racing organization constrained by their budget, has to pick and chose the venues they can afford. This typically gives the races fewer track choices to race and so less of an interest in racing for that particular organization. With less racers interested, the organization has a smaller budget. And so on…

It seems to me if you are unable to afford the number of races you want to run at the tracks the racers want, then the first consideration as an organization would be the run fewer races at as many venues as you can. Reducing the cost for both you and the racers and keeping their interest in racing with you.

The second would be to raise the fees necessary to assure the organization can run the tracks the racers want.

And third would be cutting venues.

I would rather race HPR 10 rounds vs racing HPR 1 round, PMP 1 round, PPIR 1 round, Hastings 1 round.

I agree with you that variety is key, but for me just being on the bike going around the track and getting lapped by Cromer would be more fun 10 times than only 5 @ different Venues. :)

[T Baggins]

It seems to me if you are unable to afford the number of races you want to run at the tracks the racers want, then the first consideration as an organization would be the run fewer races at as many venues as you can. Reducing the cost for both you and the racers and keeping their interest in racing with you.

The second would be to raise the fees necessary to assure the organization can run the tracks the racers want.

And third would be cutting venues.

Good logic, but it's already a bit too late to do #1 (and we lost our a$$es at Hastings anyway...) and anything less than a record turnout at PPIR would END the season for everyone (which isn't a chance we're willing to take). #2 isn't feasible as people are already complaining about the cost to race. What's behind door #3 looks to be our best option at this point in the season.

[DOUBLE A]

I just wanna go fast...GOT ASPHALT - WILL TRAVEL :D

[Throttleroller277]

I just wanna go fast...GOT ASPHALT - WILL TRAVEL :D

8) 8) :wink:

[racedk6]

I have a question:

What is it about PPIR that some of you want to be there so badly?

1- is it just that it is a different track and layout? (only 1 mile long)

2- is it the garages?

3- is it the name/status (Pipe Peak INTERNATIONAL Raceway)?

Not that it will change the current Board's decision...... I'm just curious
8)

Garages help, but the main reason I wanted to go is I just like that track. I had alot of fun during a trackday there last year. I wanted to go out and see what it was like to actually race on it. Plus its a good track for spectators so I planned on having alot of family and friends coming to them.

HPR is not the best spectator track it actually sucks IMO for anytype of outside view at racing. But it is a fun ass track to race!!

[JWinter]

It is good to see lots of people up in arms over this because it means we all care. I have been with the club for a while now and have developed some great friendships from this club. I had to make some changes in my spending this year to compete in a full season. That means I had to give up something else I wanted in order to race. It would be unfortunate if we don't race at MPH, PMP, or PPIR next year and HPR is way better by itself than the other three combined.

What if we didn't have HPR? Right now the board would be stopping the season and maybe the club. We as a club are very fortunate to have a track that we have partial ownership of. How many tracks does the CCS own? Or the USBA? Tracks have come and gone since I have been in the club. Every closed door presents another open door and we can bank on things changing.

Lets all try to have an open mind and support our wonderful organization, let's face it without us there is no club.

Jeff Winter

[dragos13]

Garages help, but the main reason I wanted to go is I just like that track. I had alot of fun during a trackday there last year. I wanted to go out and see what it was like to actually race on it. Plus its a good track for spectators so I planned on having alot of family and friends coming to them.

HPR is not the best spectator track it actually sucks IMO for anytype of outside view at racing. But it is a fun ass track to race!!

Very good points here. I think for the best interest of the MRA we need to evaluate spectators and riders. How we can get the most of both.

People like to get new tracks under their belts, especially racing on new tracks. I wonder how many racers would pick a PPIR round over 1 HPR since we have 4 other rounds there.

Please dont think I'm not in support of HPR, however I think its our job to stay afloat AS A CLUB, not making our partial track ownership of HPR the #1 priority.

[T Baggins]

PPIR costs nearly 50% more to rent than HPR, and we wouldn't have gotten to use the garages - which detracts from the "cool factor". We would have to have a significantly better turnout at PPIR than HPR to so much as break even. We always have crappy spectator attendance at PPIR as well.

I've posted before that the "ownership" of HPR is the least of our concerns at this point. We need to race where we can expect to have the best turnout (racers and spectators) with the lowest cost to run the event.

Hastings = Most expensive, horrible racer attendance, no spectators

PPIR = 2nd most expensive, good racer attendance, minimal spectators

HPR = 3rd most expensive, good racer attendance, good spectators

Pueblo = Least expensive, horrible racer attendance, no spectators

HPR or bust baby - literally.

Official Board Announcement to follow later today...

[JohnGarc]

I Love Pueblo, its cheap, fun, has the longest straight, and has good ammenities. SPECTATORS? Who cares... Are we not racing for ourselves anway, I don't care if someone comes to watch If only HPR would lower there track days to 1 bill. Whats the big deal? You would certainly have a lot more riders in the club. I just can't justify paying $150 for an HPR lapping day when I could go to Pueblo for $75. But since Pueblo does not do that anymore, I am screwed. I love HPR just wish I could afford Racing... Damn... IMI looks better and better.

[T Baggins]

John, did you miss the "horrible racer attendance" at Pueblo part? Also, we can sometimes bring in a couple thousand dollars on gate fees - free money for us, so why not?

[Ray-Ray]

John,

What part of $50 for practice in the morning and endurance race in the afternoon is to expensive?

[Throttleroller277]

I Love Pueblo, its cheap, fun, has the longest straight, and has good ammenities. SPECTATORS? Who cares... Are we not racing for ourselves anway, I don't care if someone comes to watch If only HPR would lower there track days to 1 bill. Whats the big deal? You would certainly have a lot more riders in the club. I just can't justify paying $150 for an HPR lapping day when I could go to Pueblo for $75. But since Pueblo does not do that anymore, I am screwed. I love HPR just wish I could afford Racing... Damn... IMI looks better and better.

We do need spectators, for several reasons. Though they don't bring in as much money as the actual racers, a little $$ is better than none. And some people may come watch and enjoy it, go home and tell their friends, and come with 5 people the next time.....And just as Wilson said. A lot of us were spectators before we started racing, getting the "street" guys out there to watch, sets "the bug" in them, next thing you know they too are racing. I am willing to bet that you were a spectator at one time too, whether it be going to AMA Nationals, MRA/Club events, or simply just watching on TV??? Correct me if I am wrong.

As far as Lapping days...... You say "What is the big deal?"
$150 is cheap for a lapping/track day. The people that put on the events have to pay insurance, pay corner workers, pay for Ambulance...etc... I can tell you first hand that outside of Colorado, I have never been to a track day that was under $195 a day, that includes the services I just listed. Plus you have to travel 500+ miles to get there. We can go on and on about track fees, but we have done this before...... look thru the old forums.

As for Pueblo...... They do still have practice days, they are run by Chicane Track Days.

8)

[nwatkins176]

[quote="
I've posted before that the "ownership" of HPR is the least of our concerns at this point. We need to race where we can expect to have the best turnout (racers and spectators) with the lowest cost to run the event.

Hastings = Most expensive, horrible racer attendance, no spectators

PPIR = 2nd most expensive, good racer attendance, minimal spectators

HPR = 3rd most expensive, good racer attendance, good spectators

Pueblo = Least expensive, horrible racer attendance, no spectators

HPR or bust baby - literally.

Official Board Announcement to follow later today...[/quote]

Tony, this is very well put. I think the price of each track was a mystery to many of us. There was a thought that HPR was the most expensive. After reading this, it looks like HPR is the way to go. I just hope in the future we don't only race there. Thank you for clarifying this.

[TerriRomaneschi]

Jeff: Absolutely. Here is what I was thinking yesterday but just didn't post. Guess it may be relevant now.

In focusing on the positive in terms of solutions or ideas for future profit:
1. Exposure. Getting people to the track to spectate creates a starting point for future racers that is hard to ignore when you get people enthralled/hooked with the track environment.
2. MRA members, “actively” supporting “bike related” events, or in some other way promoting the MRA. Introductions and conversations create more interest and a feeling of inclusion.
3. Chicane Track Days. Huge influence on future racers. Scott provides a structured, safe and education-oriented atmosphere in which to get your feet wet and learn in a supportive and hopefully correct way to maximize the track experience for everyone involved. (not just a free-for-all)
4. An open forum, both online and at meetings, where opinions and suggestions and votes will be listened to and supported if they make sense, no matter how great or small the idea.
5. People supporting people, and the kindnesses therein, sometimes goes a very, very long way towards future endeavors. “Everybody started somewhere”. Support that idea for the future.

[dirkterrell]

I think for the best interest of the MRA we need to evaluate spectators and riders. How we can get the most of both.


I agree with Casey. If the sport is to grow and be healthy, it's going to require an effort to get more spectators out there. Businesses that sponsor racers want more people eyeballing their products. The very first thing that people ask me when I approach them about sponsorships is how many people are in attendance. Who cares about spectators? We'd damn well better care about them.

I actually think HPR could be a great venue for spectators and I am hopeful that it will be developed as such. Personally, I think grandstands to the west of the pits would give a great view of the action. The worst by far is MPH.

Ultimately we'd all like to see broad appeal for our sport in the general public but that will take resources and time. We need to start small and work our way up. Who is the obvious "easy" audience for us to target? Sportbike riders. Many of us are active in the sportbike community and we could work via the CSC forums to get those people out to the track. Can we throw them a bone like half-off admission to the next HPR round or something? Jim gets great turnouts at his bi-weekly meets at Boston's Pizza. That would be a great place for the MRA to have a strong presence to recruits fans and even racers.

Maybe we should set up a fund that is used for publicity afforts?

Dirk

[T Baggins]

I don't think HPR will the end-all for 2010... but again it's up to the members. Hell, we could probably afford to go to Laguna if the entire club showed up. To finish 2009 though, HPR is the logical choice.

[nwatkins176]

I don't think HPR will the end-all for 2010... but again it's up to the members. Hell, we could probably afford to go to Laguna if the entire club showed up. To finish 2009 though, HPR is the logical choice.

Thanks Tony, that is what I wanted to hear. I believe Glenn's comment about only racing there in 2010 may have been taken wrong.

[Snowman]

Would the board be willing to post the actual costs and income on this forum someplace where we can get a real idea how much it costs and what is needed to get where the membership wants to be?

I know I have no idea how much everything costs and what is needed for this club to function.

[racedk6]

I don't think HPR will the end-all for 2010... but again it's up to the members. Hell, we could probably afford to go to Laguna if the entire club showed up. To finish 2009 though, HPR is the logical choice.

Thanks Tony, that is what I wanted to hear. I believe Glenn's comment about only racing there in 2010 may have been taken wrong.


With more info actually be available to the members, like the track rental fees and how much we lost at out some rounds. I think it is easier for people to see what is really going on.

[oldtimer]

A gentle fyi.... I've attended a couple of MRA general meetings this year. They're held every month and are open to anyone interested.

The financial issues now being worried over on the forum were detailed and discussed at those meetings. Since most of us (me included) don't regularly participate in the "boring" general meetings this is now coming as a surprise to many members. But the board has been discussing it openly, and working hard on it on our behalf, in the general meetings all year.

Please come to the next general meeting tomorrow night (Wednesday) at 7pm at The Walnut Room and let's all talk about how to get the club through the current situation.

[T Baggins]

The information IS available to the members, for the asking.

I am uncomfortable posting specifics on the forums, however, as this is a PUBLIC forum - not just limited to MRA members. It is your right as a member to see the numbers and costs, but it is not "public" information to my knowledge.

We will have a good summary of the profit/loss per event at the General Meeting - and we will have detailed information available (hard copy to take with you) if you want it.

If you are unable to attend the meeting, please contact a rider-rep and they will forward the information to you after the meeting.

[marty]

+1000 on all the decisions the board has made to keep MY/OUR club afloat.

i raced almost a full season at pmp last year and would rather race a full season at hpr any day. hpr is one of the best and newest in the country. ppir is fun, but it ain't hpr! we are spoiled to have so many tracks so close. most folks either have one track in state or drive 5-10 hours to race.

i would much rather race an hour or two from home than either park the bikes (which is what most of would have to do) or drive 7-8+hours to the nearest track.

[auzzy]

Hmmmm it just so happens that I do not live close to Denver, hooray for you

[PremiumBlend]

How is your avatar 83 times bigger than everyone elses???

[T Baggins]

Hmmmm it just so happens that I do not live close to Denver, hooray for you

Very productive input Auzzy. However, the fact is that the vast majority of our riders (and potential spectators) DO live in greater Denver, so that's where we're gonna focus our efforts.

[auzzy]

I do understand that as well Tony. However if anyone has ever seen the "posse" I bring to the races in Pueblo (where I do not live) not only are they people that want to get into racing but they are also the ones that have told me that nobody charged them a gate fee!! How do we let this happen? Better yet , how do we cure this issue? I know of atleast 20 people in the town of Pueblo that are Very interested in becoming a part of the MRA. What would happen if the majority of people were from Pueblo (btw I live 40 miles east ) Would there be a different tune? :(

[T Baggins]

I do understand that as well Tony. However if anyone has ever seen the "posse" I bring to the races in Pueblo (where I do not live) not only are they people that want to get into racing but they are also the ones that have told me that nobody charged them a gate fee!! How do we let this happen? Better yet , how do we cure this issue? I know of atleast 20 people in the town of Pueblo that are Very interested in becoming a part of the MRA. What would happen if the majority of people were from Pueblo (btw I live 40 miles east ) Would there be a different tune? :(

How they're getting in without paying is beyond me - unless they're showing up before or after the security guys arrive.

Obviously if the majority of the racers lived in Pueblo, then we would be singing a different tune.

[COS Mille]

Damn, was actually back from Italy last night getting ready for PPIR this afternoon for this week-end and got on line to register for the race. It's too bad, but a sad reality of our economy. I'll be at the remaining HPR rounds. Sorry to hear about the problems. Being from COS we are in a excellent central location to take advantage of all our track, I'm in racing for the long haul.

[racedk6]

I do understand that as well Tony. However if anyone has ever seen the "posse" I bring to the races in Pueblo (where I do not live) not only are they people that want to get into racing but they are also the ones that have told me that nobody charged them a gate fee!! How do we let this happen? Better yet , how do we cure this issue? I know of atleast 20 people in the town of Pueblo that are Very interested in becoming a part of the MRA. What would happen if the majority of people were from Pueblo (btw I live 40 miles east ) Would there be a different tune? :(

Auzzy you guys are more then welcome to stay at my place during the race weekend. If you can get the days off.