Open Letter

[Vanmar Racing]

deleted

[auzzy]

I think cromer just lapped me!

[dave.gallant]

http://static.oper.ru/data/gallery/l1048752087.jpg

How about this:

Do a huge smokey burnout in front of my pits and I will beat you to a pulp with my fire extinguisher.

Sounds fair to me?

[The GECCO]

Since this is now (quite inappropriately) being tried in the court of public opinion, I want to make sure everyone has ALL the relevant facts, not just emotional blackmail:

- Jason did 100+ foot long ROLLING burnout from the area of Jeff Brown's pit all the way down to his own, while there were lots of people in the immediate area. People who were packing up after a long weekend and had their guard down.
- Jason has been disciplined multiple times in the past for similar behavior, so it isn't as if he can claim he thought his actions were excusable.

If this infraction is left unpunished, how can we possibly justify disciplining anyone else for any other pit area infractions, especially those that are less serious than this one?

Tammy - if you truly respected the board, you would not attempt to make us the bad guys for simply ENFORCING THE RULES.

[HAMMER]

2mph burnout 10 people left in the pits. no loud squeelig or anything . seemed harmless. im sorry if i startled people . the weekend was over. i apologise if i was "OUT OF CONTROL" :?

[dragos13]

Hammers burnout was just like his riding this weekend = SLOW!!!

Seriously though, I was in our pit and he basically came walking up doing that burnout then right into his 3X5 enclosed trailer. Wether or not it was good for that rear tire, he did have full control over the bike the whole time.

[HAMMER]

i have witnessed your drunkin wheelies tony... and you fined yourself. thats cool!!!...i had no problem w/ a fine. it was the ammount of the fine that was the issue.....and the race weekend was over????? yours was on a sat night w/ 100 people standing around... and i havent been harrased for screwing off in like 3 years... the crash remount isnt even in the same boat as this shit!!!!!!...... if it was brad or turpin no one would have said SHIT!!!! :shock: . or they would have to sweep???????? ya cool....

i didnt even leave a blackie

[cromer611]

Deleted message. . . due to potential Bullshit headed my direction. :lol:

[The GECCO]

<snip> he did have full control over the bike the whole time.

So what? There's probably dozens of videos on youtube of people doing the exact same thing who have full control over the bike....until they don't. Just because you HAVE control doesn't mean you can't LOOSE control. I can't believe I even have to explain this to someone who rides, much less races, a motorcycle.

[dave.gallant]

Holy shit...

well... there is a black sheep in every club. If not Hammer then who... :twisted:

and what about the guy that was pitted next to us during staurdays races, doing wheelies, flat trackin in the pits, crashing into stacks of tires.

I don't get the argument here?

All racers are "special" in our own minds. If you act like a douchebag in the pits, you should get treated like a douchebag. I personally don't care who it is, from Hammer to Turpin to the mystery person you elude to above.

Using small words: STOP THE BULLSHIT IN THE PITS AND THIS WOULDN"T BE A PROBLEM.

IMHO, Turpin should have been kicked in the balls just as hard as every other idiot who thinks doing a burnout in front of my pit is somehow entertaining. There is plenty of fucking pavement out of the pits; go knock yourself out and stop taking chances I didn't sign up for. We have bikes/family/dogs/kids/etc in the pits that didn't sign up for that shit.

Go break the lap record, then you might impress me -- a burnout is not gonna do it. :roll:

[T Baggins]

Couple things:

These sort of discussions about members actions or behavior are commonly discussed on the BOARD forum (which is private). Had it not become a big public spectacle, it would have been handled appropriately and justly, behind closed doors as these issues always are. There are 11 board members, and we go with majority rules. Rarely do we end up very far on either end of the spectrum. Now that it has become a big public spectacle, I want to be sure that the Club gets the facts.

This is the "Defending Jason Madama's Life" thread, not the defending Tony Baker's life thread. But for clarification, I was stupid at Hastings last year. Not for doing wheelies (I suck at wheelies), but for riding a pit bike around all night with a drink in my hand - AND for thinking it was a good idea to ride a scooter thru the alfalfa field to the North of the track entrance. I made a mess of the pits and probably killed a bushel of alfalfa. Overall I behaved like a baboon, and I deserved to be punished. A member made an anonymous complaint that "certain Board members were misbehaving and that if anyone else had done that they would have been screamed at". Nobody named me specifically, but I KNEW that what I did was wrong - and so I told the membership about it at the next race riders meeting and by a show of hands the membership decided the fine. I offered up $25, $50, $100, $200 - and they decided $50 which I gladly paid.

In the 20 years I've been a member, I've been fined twice. The other time was for speeding thru the "hot pit lane" at SCR 'cause I was late for a race. Both times I suggested the penalty myself - I didn't fight the penalty. I never said I was perfect, but let's not start comparing apples to oranges shall we?

As far as the guy on Saturday - I personally had ZERO knowledge of it. Had I seen it, I would have done as we have always done. Warning, Fine, Take Pit bike away, throw rider and crew out of track. In that order. If others noticed this behavior and didn't address it or take it to a Board member - then what are we supposed to do?

As far as the personal opinion of Hammer, that was what I posted on the BOARD forum which is not something you guys normally see. Because what is being posted on the Board forum apparently is getting out to NON-Board members I wanted to be 100% accurate in my recount. I didn't want anyone saying "well you said such and such here, but then changed it to such and such there..." Transparent is tranparent, and that's what you got.

As I said in my post I actually like Jason personally - but I think he oftentimes "ACTS" like an 'effing idiot. Perhaps I should have posted that instead?

The tattoos comment was referencing Tammy's statement that we were picking on him... "because he tends to live his life on the edge of our accepted standards. He adds variety and diversity to our club..." I took that as a reference to his "look and lifestyle" - maybe she meant something else?

Eric, I'm glad you posted up - and I hope other people will too. It IS possible to have an intelligent conversation about this kind of stuff. And when it affects the long-term health and safety of our club, then everyone should have their equal say.

Hammer, you did leave a blackie - it was about 100' long. I could see it from Glenn's trailer. And nobody's decided anything on a fine, suspension or anything - so how can you already be protesting about "the amount of the fine"?

[turtle evans]

Well sorry I missed the excitement guys.....

First of all I would like to say that name calling, ridicule and threats in this thread should be recognized as weak mindedness and an inability to articulate thoughts and feelings and be dismissed as such.

As for the court of "public opinion"it is the best court in MY opinion. When a select few people can be judge, jury and executioner you get unfair judgments at best. In my 2 yrs racing in the MRA and my 4 yrs coming to support my friends, WE have been punished for numerous things that most people can agree they have seen other racers and even board members do and go unpunished.

I am no moral example by any means but I do know that I talk to everyone with as much respect as I can muster (sometimes more than others) and I never degrade or belittle another especially in front of other people (something not many of the board members can say in my opinion)

We are all adults here. As Cromer said "personal opinions should not be spoken." Being a "grown up" is not being the "enforcer" but being the EXAMPLE!

We have all seen others breaking the rules and it is just dismissed as holliganism (which is to be expected we are racers not school teachers) and then we see others break the rules and the "enforcers" muster every possible punishment they can to "make an example of" or to show the others that "this is not tolerated" Everyone is breaking the rules when they are under a microscope. I can not name any other racers who have ---"consistently been a behavioral problem for our club for the last 4 years."

But I can name a few that have been punished for almost every infraction they committed no matter how small or harmless. You know everyone's farts stink when your nose is up their ass!

I know the club rules are there for the safety of all. I am not trying to make allowances for people to break the rules I would just like to see a more fair enforcement of the rules that are already on the books. A uniform code of enforcement to ensure that personal opinions do not effect people's judgment in the penalties that are administered to violators. The MRA should punish infractions on a fair and even basis. (1st infraction $50, 2nd $150 3rd $300 and 4th and your out.....as a possible example) I know such changes can not be decided and made until proper times but until then maybe the court of public opinion is best place as it may be the only place for "undesirables" (aka tattooed fucking idiots who are going to get the pulp beat out of them with a fire extinguisher) to get a fair shake since there is obviously some degree of bias in the manner in which the rules are enforced.

So slow it looks like I am in 1st!
Turtle

[dave.gallant]

(aka tattooed fucking idiots who are going to get the pulp beat out of them with a fire extinguisher)

Are you calling me an idiot because I have tattoos? :shock:





(Don't be a fucking idiot in the pits and I won't be forced to wield the fire extinguisher.)

[glenngsxr]

I did not see this event happen, but IMO I agree with Dave and the board. If you are in hot pit lane and no ones around and you wanna do a rolling burnout, then do it. However, when you come past those gates into the pits you need to chill out. People have families, vehicles, tools, and racebikes (which we all work hard to pay for) and in capital letters are NOT INSURED. If someone lost control of their burnout and ran into my pits and knocked my bike over into my kid or my truck, they are in for a world of hurt. Secondly, the damages to the bike and my other race assets all comes out of my pocket. Hammer, I'm all for you celebrating, but keep it in your own safe zone. Glenn #62

[T Baggins]

for the record, my opinion is NOT the Board's opinion.

The "Board Opinion" is formed based on the input from ALL Board members, and then it goes to a vote. The resulting compromise becomes the "Board Opinion".

Not to be picky, but I don't want my opinions or foul language to be attributed to other Board members.

[dave.gallant]

I did not see this event happen, but IMO I agree with Dave and the board.

FWIW: I am willing to bet the MRA Board does not condone my stated use of a fire extinguisher, so any and all of those statements only represent my personal views of the 30' feet I occupy as "my pits".

:D

[HAMMER]

the weekend was over, ther were not many bikes in the pit except my team ( not like it was during the race day). we did talk about a fine..... and dave is gonna need a lot more than a fire extiguisher to do any kind a pulping......

:wink:


i am sorry i didnt think it was a big deal... we do "race" motorcycles right??????

[cromer611]

Eric, I'm glad you posted up - and I hope other people will too. It IS possible to have an intelligent conversation about this kind of stuff. And when it affects the long-term health and safety of our club, then everyone should have their equal say.


I deleted my first post, I dont want any part of this. I just want to ride.
so you grown-ups can do what ya do.

cya at HPR :roll:

[Wild Cheetah 612]

I'm sitting here during my planning period catching up on the forums and a 2nd grader wanders into my room (yes, Turtle, I'm a racer and a school teacher.) She says I look really serious and asks me what I'm doing. I explain to her briefly in 7 year old terms my position in the club and the situation I'm reading about. She gives me an incredulous look and says,"Why would anybody, especially a grown-up do that? That's not safe." I think that should speak volumes to all of us on this subject.

We need to take a deep breath and think about this with our brains.

My Main Points:
1) We are all human and occasionally screw up. The Board does, however, need to set the example as much as possible.
2) The Board is your representation and therefore, we are charged to deal with these matters. If you don't like how we are doing, vote in a new group for next season.
3) There is a great deal more history with Jason than is widely known. Some of you may some of the incidents and some may know of others. The Board hears about them all.
4) We, being the board, fight like an old married couple (or a polygamy of 11) and usually every angle brought up. Then we come to a decision.
5) The Board wants everyone to have a good time without being overly rigorous with hammering every antic that occurs. We do, however, have the potential of personal liablity of someone gets hurt.


My Opinion:
Being a Rider Representative, I like to represent the rider when he or she has an issue, regardless of my feelings in the matter. I have butted heads with Glenn and Tim many times. I've fought for Jason, too. Unfortunately, I believe he continues to endanger the members and their families. Even Rossi makes a mistake on his motorcycle from time to time. I can't back him up anymore.
I don't think anyone, regardless of riding ability, should be riding like that in the pits or when anyone is even near. It bugged me when I was a novice and I saw Turpin and others doing that crap and yet I get busted for riding a little too fast on my electric scooter. No one should get away with endangering anyone's safety no matter how harmless it may seem at the time.

[Vanmar Racing]

Dang!

First of all I am sorry thread this went ballistic.

I didn't post this to throw any Board Members under the bus. I knew that after the incident on Sunday that it wasn't going to be good for Hammer. Everyone who knows Hammer -knows that it wouldn't be good.

I meant only to plead for mercy for Jason.

Glenn,
I have the utmost respect for you. I call you my HERO and I mean it! You have brought this club farther then any other President has.

Tony you make several valid points and I understand your position, especially from a liability and safety viewpoint.

I hope that a satisfactory decision can be made that will be fair to all involved.

Tammy

[turtle evans]

It's a conspiracy!

[motobum]

fine him and move on

[Racing616]

Okkkkkkkkk, seeing as my name has been dropped here a couple times, I think I can get a say.

Second Creek was different to this. Please don't compare. It was the end of the season, and racing was done, and further, I did have to pay my dues. My tired hungover ass spent hours in the sun sweeping the pits for what I did :) Actually, this really makes me laugh thinking about it. Point is, I DID have to do something to take care of what I did.

Hammer, bullshit man, if I did it, I'd be in trouble, just like you.

With that being said, I think Hammer should have to clean up his mess, just like I did (equal treatment right?) I will volunteer to drive down there with my friend Jason, and while he cleans the pits with a toothbrush, I will upload video and pictures of him doing so :)

What should happen here is up to the board. I think the issue is the big black line down the pits (did we forget about this?) and NOT the fact that it was dangerous. I am sure it wasn't. I watched the whole thing, and it was SLOW, and controlled. He even had his foot down (where those sick balance skills fool?).........there was no danger there at all. Just someone hurting a rear tire cause he raced slowly all weekend ;)

I would have done it with both feet on the pegs.

[Racing616]

Did everyone see the stickers on my lower at Pueblo? Hammer did those, if you want to be pimp and styling like me, you should hit him up :)

[cromer611]

I think cromer just lapped me!

lol what?

[Jon]

Last year during the combined WSB/AMA event at Miller a professional stunter during his show lost control doing the same thing. The bike went into the croud and broke the ankle of a promotional person who happened to work for Brian Sharps shop Boulder Motorsports. To say that nothing at all could happen like this is like saying racing is actually safe.
I am of the opinion that these sort of antics should take pleace on the track and not in the pits especially when children and others are present or could be present maybe just not in plain view. This is of course coming from a father of twin young ones who's also a racer.

[Jon]

After reading my post I am also of the opinion that I should use a spell checker on everything I write!

[HAMMER]

here is your fine!!!!!!! :lol:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://farm1.static.flickr.com/140/327356082_c3f647c990.jpg%3Fv%3D0&imgrefurl=http://flickr.com/photos/80501645%40N00/327356082/&usg=__OCFBIpz_xb2EI0JC9Lv5ckKOT1g=&h=248&w=350&sz=22&hl=en&start=2&sig2=p8qQtgwOXpZ43GjsD7L5Dw&tbnid=HJjJgLHo7bqIWM:&tbnh=85&tbnw=120&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpoop%2Bin%2Bhand%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den% 26sa%3DG&ei=C4sASqLKMZmSswPr8rDSBQ

[dave.gallant]

I think you were trying more for this effect:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/140/327356082_c3f647c990.jpg

[marty]

I think you were trying more for this effect:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/140/327356082_c3f647c990.jpg
i mean i know how to do it with soft serve ice cream, but seriously, how do dogs get their poo to swirl so well without using there paws. is it all in the hips?

[dave.gallant]

I think you were trying more for this effect:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/140/327356082_c3f647c990.jpg
i mean i know how to do it with soft serve ice cream, but seriously, how do dogs get their poo to swirl so well without using there paws. is it all in the hips?

I don't think it was his dog that made that pile; i think it was Hammer.

??

:shock:

[marty]

hammer, please splain you method

[turbohoje]

2gils1cup.com

[HAMMER]

ya its in the hips..... and ya its mine.