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gpsigs
March 11th, 2009, 10:11 AM
Are the following allowed in Supersport in the MRA?

-Manual Cam Chain Tensioner

-Superbike tail with just foam seat pad? (i see this addressed but want to make sure I am interpreting it correctly)


If anyone has some insight please let me know!

Sigs

Ray-Ray
March 12th, 2009, 03:39 PM
Are the following allowed in Supersport in the MRA?

-Manual Cam Chain Tensioner

-Superbike tail with just foam seat pad? (i see this addressed but want to make sure I am interpreting it correctly)


If anyone has some insight please let me know!

Sigs

No on the cam chain tensioner and the rule states that the seat must be similar in appearance of a stock setup.

dave.gallant
March 12th, 2009, 06:38 PM
No on the cam chain tensioner.

Has this changed recently?

Ray-Ray
March 12th, 2009, 06:53 PM
No on the cam chain tensioner.

Has this changed recently?

Nope....


Just going from what the current rule book states. The rule book does not specifically state that a cam chain tensioner can be used therefore it should remain "showroom" stock.

dave.gallant
March 12th, 2009, 06:54 PM
No on the cam chain tensioner.

Has this changed recently?

Nope....


Just going from what the current rule book states. The rule book does not specifically state that a cam chain tensioner can be used therefore it should remain "showroom" stock.

Was this enforced last year too?

(As you can tell, I could give a shit about Supersport thus do not know. :))

Ray-Ray
March 12th, 2009, 06:56 PM
No on the cam chain tensioner.

Has this changed recently?

Nope....


Just going from what the current rule book states. The rule book does not specifically state that a cam chain tensioner can be used therefore it should remain "showroom" stock.

Was this enforced last year too?

(As you can tell, I could give a shit about Supersport thus do not know. :))

Nope, this was never brought up last year.

dave.gallant
March 12th, 2009, 07:01 PM
No on the cam chain tensioner.

Has this changed recently?

Nope....


Just going from what the current rule book states. The rule book does not specifically state that a cam chain tensioner can be used therefore it should remain "showroom" stock.

Was this enforced last year too?

(As you can tell, I could give a shit about Supersport thus do not know. :))

Nope, this was never brought up last year.

During the Supersport checks last season, this was not "noticed"?

I should go read the current rules a bit I guess to brush up.

Are Brembo master cylinders allowed?

Traction control? :shock:

benfoxmra95
March 12th, 2009, 08:04 PM
hmmmm.....wth?

I thought for sure there was a rule in the supersport section that allowed for cam chain tensioners? where did it go?

Jon
March 12th, 2009, 11:23 PM
Oh boy here we go again :roll:

Jim 'smooth' Brewer
March 13th, 2009, 01:44 PM
Oh boy here we go again :roll:
http://users.frii.com/jjb/emote/yeah_that.gif


Was this enforced last year too?

"Enforced" means would be upheld as a protest. I don't think any protests were submitted about manual cam chain tensioners, right Ray? And "noticed" - I think Ray has been looking for specifics in supersport - meaning he wasn't on a hunt to find just anything. Right again, Ray?

Brembo masters are ok - see rule 2.2.2.C.1. in last year's book (note to self: get Davey this year's soon!)

Since many bikes come with traction control stock, that's permitted. Can you add it? I will defer to Ray on that since engine ECU's of unrestricted origin are permitted.



I thought for sure there was a rule in the supersport section that allowed for cam chain tensioners? where did it go?

I don't remember that. I'll do some rulebook archeology tonight to make sure. Are you thinking about cam sprockets?

dave.gallant
March 13th, 2009, 01:53 PM
No one protested Turpin when a slipper clutch was found at Second Creek, so why would a protest have to be filed for a non-compliant part to be noticed during a routine tear down?

Really only reason I was confused was because for the last like 10 years, everyone (and the donkey they rode in on) had a manual cam chain tensioner on their racebike. (including some bikes that should not have gotten then, which shortly thereafter when boom!). I do believe that is why Sexy Ben is confused as well...

And, traction control units were all over the MRA on Supersport bikes last season so if they are indeed illegal I will be grinning from ear to ear. :D

dave.gallant
March 13th, 2009, 01:54 PM
Oh boy here we go again :roll:

Oh, you stop. We are not letting 1200cc twins race in Heavyweight.

:shock:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Jon
March 13th, 2009, 01:56 PM
Again I just gotta say to myself Thank God I don't race Superstock as it sounds like a good place to make an enemy!

dave.gallant
March 13th, 2009, 01:58 PM
Again I just gotta say to myself Thank God I don't race Superstock as it sounds like a good place to make an enemy!

You, Sir, are a wise man. :D

Jim 'smooth' Brewer
March 13th, 2009, 02:04 PM
... seat yes as long as it remains the similar in appearance as stock.

Ok, "similar in appearance as stock" is vague. What if it's a different color? :roll: Obviously a superbike tail section w/an integrated seat/foam pad is going to be quite different than a stock tailsection with a plastic seat.

dave.gallant
March 13th, 2009, 02:05 PM
... seat yes as long as it remains the similar in appearance as stock.

Ok, "similar in appearance as stock" is vague. What if it's a different color? :roll: Obviously a superbike tail section w/an integrated seat/foam pad is going to be quite different than a stock tailsection with a plastic seat.

I knew we could sucker Jimmy into a good rules argument given enough time!!

T Baggins
March 13th, 2009, 03:25 PM
Last year is so..... last year.

Sounds like someone would like us to look for manual cam chain tensioners this year? :?:

Anything else caught in yer craw that we need to know about so we can be on the lookout for it? :lol: That would save us all a lot of time. :shock:

Ray-Ray
March 13th, 2009, 03:25 PM
... seat yes as long as it remains the similar in appearance as stock.

Ok, "similar in appearance as stock" is vague. What if it's a different color? :roll: Obviously a superbike tail section w/an integrated seat/foam pad is going to be quite different than a stock tailsection with a plastic seat.


OK.... I see your point! I may have been wrong on this one! Guess that's why they call it a SUPERBIKE tail! However, It really boils down to appearance. If your setup looks close enough to stock then there won't be a problem.

gpsigs
March 13th, 2009, 04:36 PM
wow i didn't mean to start this.

the only reason i brought the seat up is because i gave it to a sponsor to produce a bodywork prototype, and the stock replacement is very expensive. so i looked into alternatives that would effectively do the same thing and save me some money while i wait for my seat to come back.

how about this one...... attack sells a seat base plate that mounts just like the stock seat but you put foam on to it. it works with the supersport tail and stock bodywork. is that allowed?

yea supersports rules create such a headache and some major fear of someone protesting you at just the wrong time (we all know within supersport that if someone is looking hard enough and depending on who is interpretting, you can be protested), but i am simply trying to stay in a competitive class without spending a ton of money.

sigs

Ray-Ray
March 13th, 2009, 04:56 PM
Can you shoot me a picture or link of what you are looking at? If it looks like a stock setup then you won't have a problem.

Thanks
R

TRK
March 14th, 2009, 10:37 AM
looks like I have been illegal since I joined the MRA
I have always run seat foam instead of the stock seat PLUS a manual cam chain adjuster, in the old days it prevented bikes from going BOOM.
I think half of the swinging (**)(* in the MRA run a manual cam chain adjuster. Thi.s should be fun, I wish everyone good luck in tracking down an OEM adjuster to throw back on their bike
hmmmm...................I hope everyone reads the board, because after the first round I am sure someone could DQ half the grid. This ranks up there with bodywork and windscreens, wait a tail is bodywork
:shock:

TRK
March 14th, 2009, 10:48 AM
:D

TRK
March 14th, 2009, 10:57 AM
FYI from the 08 rulebook:
The following items may be replaced by parts of unrestricted origin:
Seat, seat base, and associated bodywork.

2.2.2 C11

Ray-Ray
March 14th, 2009, 11:20 AM
FYI from the 08 rulebook:
The following items may be replaced by parts of unrestricted origin:
Seat, seat base, and associated bodywork.

2.2.2 C11


Correct it does say that, However, it boils down to part where it says "These may be replaced with parts similar in appearance to the orginal stock parts."

benfoxmra95
March 14th, 2009, 12:45 PM
Ray I think you should make an allowance this season for the chain adjuster. It serves no performance gains and is cheap. And is more for keeping motors from munching themselves.

This has definately been an oversight for some years now.



Jimmy did you look in the old rule books yet?

I just swear it was in there in previous years

TRK
March 14th, 2009, 12:47 PM
Last time I looked, a fiberglass replacement seat with a foam pad looks the same to me. Hell the molds are taken from stock bodywork 99% of the time. Kinda like the passenger seat that is replaced with fiberglass. I haven't seen to many bikes on the track with the passenger seat in place.

Jon
March 14th, 2009, 01:14 PM
From working with the various bodywork manufactures through the years I've noticed that some of them offer two options when it comes to aftermarket bodywork. 1)A supersport tail that uses the stock seat and a superbike that uses a foam pad. Then some companies only offer the Superbike or the supersport. I guess it kind of depends on what company sponsors you. Let's do it by looking at what was allowed by the AMA when the AMA had the superstock class or, what they allow in the current supersport class. That would be my suggestion.
Going to be a long season ain't it?

Jon
March 14th, 2009, 03:15 PM
I just came up with a solution that can make racing cheaper.
Supersport should be just as the bikes come from the factory. No modifications whatsoever. If it doesn't have a Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki or whatever part number than it's illegal. case covers are allowed and taping of the lights, removal of mirrors, kickstand etc. Hell you could buy a new bike, put you your covers on there and your racing. Think about how much you guys could save the only difference could be bold new colors from year to year. Unless your on the new R1 of course and you smoke the field!
Just a idea!.....I know, there I go causing trouble again :D

JimWilson29
March 14th, 2009, 07:03 PM
http://smiliesftw.com/x/munchstretchcouch2.gif

benfoxmra95
March 14th, 2009, 09:35 PM
I'm sitting in a resturant reading this latest post on my phone and I just had such a good chuckle that the people sitting near me looked at me as though I was a homeless guy talking to himself. LOL....

I'd like to make a formal board proposal for jons idea, anyone second it? :roll:

TRK
March 15th, 2009, 07:39 AM
Awesome idea, until you need replacement parts. WERA had a production class back in the day. It was supposed to help with cost, but try going to the dealer and grabbing an OEM exhaust after you crash.

TRK
March 15th, 2009, 07:41 AM
FYI:
AMA
WERA
CCS
MOM
all allow a foam seat in Supersport

Jim 'smooth' Brewer
March 15th, 2009, 07:09 PM
I just came up with a solution that can make racing cheaper.
Supersport should be just as the bikes come from the factory. No modifications whatsoever.
I ain't gonna bite .. http://users.frii.com/jjb/emote/no.gif

Jimmy did you look in the old rule books yet?
Yeah, I have MRA rulebooks back to 1994 and I didn't see anything about cam chain tensioners being allowed.

There is an old AFM rule for production that allows for drive chain tensioners (like ATK uses on their dirt bikes). Could that be what you were thinking of?

TRK
March 24th, 2009, 10:52 PM
So where are we at on all of this silliness. Does this mean I need to go drop cash on an OEM seat and a different tail, because stock in appearance is up to interpretation?

And does everyone need to chase down OEM cam chain tensioners?

Ben correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't a cam chain tensioner help some motors not eat themselves so that they don't spit fluids all over our race track?

Ray-Ray
March 26th, 2009, 08:53 PM
So where are we at on all of this silliness. Does this mean I need to go drop cash on an OEM seat and a different tail, because stock in appearance is up to interpretation?

And does everyone need to chase down OEM cam chain tensioners?

Ben correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't a cam chain tensioner help some motors not eat themselves so that they don't spit fluids all over our race track?

A "superbike" tail will be fine in supersport classes AS LONG AS you have a black foam cushion that is the same shape and appearance as the stock seat. If you run a superbike tail with no foam seat then you will not be SS legal. If you are concerned that you have a superbike tail that won't pass let me know and I will make the final call on it.



As far as the cam chain tensioner goes..... In theory if you have a STOCK motor (which you are required to have for SuperSport classes) then the stock cam tensioner is fine. HOWEVER, I will allow manual cam tensioners in SS classes this year and will make sure that we get this added to the rule book for next year. Since they provide no preformance gains and protects your motors I will allow them.

If you any questions please let me know.

Thanks,
Ray-Ray

dave.gallant
March 26th, 2009, 09:36 PM
Now I am really confused - Where is "stock motor" mentioned?

If you mean "stock", but with milled head and 5 angle valve job with fully polished internals and adjustable cam sprockets ignited with a KIT ECU all monitored by aftermarket traction control system, then I understand. ;)

Every year I proposed restrictions against this crap, it was not voted in. Enjoy racing Supersport boys! ;D

bluedevil
March 27th, 2009, 06:17 AM
Enjoy racing Supersport boys! ;D

:wink: I bought a Costco size popcorn to watch the SS discussions all year long.. nom nom nom .....

TRK
March 27th, 2009, 08:29 AM
not to be a pain in the ass, but why a black seat?
Why cant I have a Green pad???

benfoxmra95
March 27th, 2009, 10:48 AM
5 angle valve job....pfffft.....that's old school. :lol:

how bout no angles at all.... :roll:

Wild Cheetah 612
March 27th, 2009, 12:32 PM
Now I am really confused - Where is "stock motor" mentioned?

If you mean "stock", but with milled head and 5 angle valve job with fully polished internals and adjustable cam sprockets ignited with a KIT ECU all monitored by aftermarket traction control system, then I understand. ;)

Every year I proposed restrictions against this crap, it was not voted in. Enjoy racing Supersport boys! ;D

NO WAY?!!!
We agree on something?!
Love ya, Davey!

dave.gallant
March 27th, 2009, 12:41 PM
5 angle valve job....pfffft.....that's old school. :lol:

how bout no angles at all.... :roll:

Seriously??

benfoxmra95
March 27th, 2009, 01:47 PM
seriously.

dave.gallant
March 27th, 2009, 02:06 PM
seriously.

How cool is that!!

But, how?????

joe859
March 27th, 2009, 05:01 PM
seriously.

How cool is that!!

But, how?????

Full radius valve job?