Grids

[Mforza]

I know this is old issue but how about making the grids for each race based on the best time from practice? Is that possible? Just asking. Martin :D

[Wild Cheetah 612]

Sorry Martin, but that would make practice "qualifying" and that's not the point of practice.

[motobum]

not if it was picked at random... and whats the point of going slow in practice?! Wide F@#$ing Open!! :wink:

[Mforza]

I think that it will make the race even safer if the fast guys start in front and slower in the back based on times they run in practice. I think that even in practice everyone try to make their best time. But on the other hand I can see your point Donna.

[Mforza]

Another point I'm trying to make is that racer that is fast on one track can be slow on diferent track. :)

[Racing616]

I am in full support of two short 10 min qualifying sessions for the RoR races right after practice.......

[JohnGarc]

I think Martin and Brad have made a great point. I am in full support of qualifying for grid positions!!! There are some faster novice guys then experts and it would be nice to start on the grid based on your lap times, that way it makes it safer for every one on the track.

[shortie171]

I always thought the reason Club Racing didn't do qualifying was so that we were gridded based on points, not times. The bigger picture being when money chasers come to race with us they have to start at the back, not qualify at the front and walk away.

?????

[JWinter]

Should have thought of this four months ago and submitted it as a rule change, too late now. Besides IF you are faster than the guys in front of you, then pass them. If you are consistent and fast you should be at the front of the grid anyway.

Jeff

[Racing616]

wow Jeff, thanks for that really obvious " IF" :roll:

I personally don't think we should penalize money chasers (I've been there). They are showing up to tracks they've never raced at before and trying it out....further more, the contingency racers don't race in the two RoR races anyway.

Qualifying would add some more excitement to our RoR races, it is a lot of fun!!!

[Moto-Mania]

I have to side with Donna on this one.

In an ideal world, qualifying sessions would provide obvious benefits. But, for most of us, it would add an additional layer of complexity to an already too short race weekend where they are already too many practice session crashes, IMO.

[loujr]

[quote="IF you are faster than the guys in front of you, then pass them. If you are consistent and fast you should be at the front of the grid anyway.

I agree! 8)

[cromer611]

qualifying = more rubber. more rubber cost money. and I know we have some ballers in our club but I know Im not the only one diving into the couch for entry fees, etc...

[Scored51]

....further more, the contingency racers don't race in the two RoR races anyway.

Qualifying would add some more excitement to our RoR races, it is a lot of fun!!!

I believe contingency hunters have been kept from racing RoR sprints due to the rule that requires all eligible experts must hold expert status for a full year with the MRA prior to entering either event.

I got a plan for RoR qualifying! We could (eliminate) use the last expert fast practice before starting the races on Sunday. This would take more time than a normal practice cycle because each and every rider on the track would need to be a confirmed entrant into one of the ROR races. Then it would be a free all for 15 - 20 minutes for 600's and open class bikes (2 grids worth of racers = 50+ bikes) at the same time to turn their fastest laps. Of course you'd be hard pressed if you were running both races to qualify two bikes within the allotted time period. Afterward, grids wouldn't be posted until some time during lunch necessitating a special trip to find out where you qualified without the opportunity to protest/correct inconsistencies because there would be no pre-grids. That would be more exciting!

The other scheduling idea I thought of would be to eliminate the endurance races and move all sprints back to Sunday in order to run separate qualifying for every sprint class on Saturday. Practice might also need to be sacrificed. Nope that wouldn't work due to all of the people who can't be at the track on Saturday. Oh well.

Finally, in the interest of keeping a safe start we can mandate that no one is to enter turn 1 on the first lap higher than their grid position. This would eliminate someone worrying about getting a good start from the third row and trying to capitalizing on it. If it's determined that this isn't safe enough, we could extend it all the way to the white flag lap or checkered as seen fit. It's funny how heat races in other forms of motorsports actually and purposely invert the grid between heats after grid positions have been drawn from a hat. Does anyone have any statistics concerning the number of crashes prior to turn 1 in MRA races? Maybe we should eliminate faster riders passing altogether because it's too dangerous. This was the case for corners when I ran a lapping day held by the Porsche Club of America nearly twenty years ago.

These are all just suggestions, and are worth what you've all paid to read them. They do not reflect any official position or opinion (other than my own sarcasm) within the club as I am not a board member and have no more influence over anything that goes on than any other racer who's paid for a license.

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

Jeff's right - this is a great rule suggestion for 2010. I'll keep track of it.

It has come up a number of times in the past & always has been voted down by the majority of the club. But things can always change.

We'd need separate session(s) for this, and would somehow have to even it up with other racers for "taking away their practice time." I still remember what happened when I added supermoto practice & races to the Saturday schedule.

The strongest arguments against qualifying are usually what Cromer is saying... namely it gives a huge advantage to those who get their tires paid for. Add up a new set for qualifying & a new set for the race every weekend - at least - times 11 .. hmm... in the neighborhood of $10-11K per season.

[marty]

... in the interest of keeping a safe start we can mandate that no one is to enter turn 1 on the first lap higher than their grid position.

now you're on to something :twisted: i like this idea, either that or a head start for two strokes

[Mforza]

My idea was about taking times from practice and use them for making the grids. Not doing another session! I think that we all trying to go faster in practice anyway and improve so why not use those times. I'm not money chaser and hardly ever will be. I'm doing this for fun. I understand the tire issue but that's how it is in racing. Some racers have sponsors and some not, like me. Like I said, I'm just asking. :D



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[Mforza]

I see your point Chris! I will say no more :D

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

My idea was about taking times from practice and use them for making the grids. Not doing another session!

It's a noble idea, but if the top ROR guys know they're getting timed in a certain practice for grid spots, they're not going to be very kind or gentle when they come up on other riders during that session. It's not fair to anyone to mix qualifying & non-qualifying riders on the track at the same time.

If you make it the best time for all practice sessions, then all sessions would have this issue.

Also, I would suspect it would be a bit of a tussle @ pre-grid to see who gets out first for some clear track.

I did a couple races w/OMRRA and an AMA event where they had qualifying. It's as much of a race as a real race.

[dragos13]

What if we just allocated the final practice of the morning to be a qualifying practice? Or maybe after the final practice, open a 20 minute ROR qualifying session.

[Throttleroller277]

What if we just allocated the final practice of the morning to be a qualifying practice? Or maybe after the final practice, open a 20 minute ROR qualifying session.

For those that run both RoR's, you cannot combine the qualifying, otherwise said person has to Qualify on their GTU bike, and use that time for the GTO grid as well. I have seen this happen a couple times in the MoM series, when the USGPRU races on the same weekend, we have to qualify both KoM's in one session.

The first season of the MoM series we qualified for ALL classes, but they also didn't have any Novice classes (they were held on different weekends) Which made the schedule feasible.

For the last 2 years we only qualify for the KoM's (same as RoR), 20 minute sessions back to back. But the MRA's schedule does not allow for that. The reason MoM can fit it into their schedule is because they do not have any "Expert Medium" practice sessions. I personally like having the qualifying, but I do think the Meduim practice is good too, because without it, everyone thinks that they are/should be in the Fast Sessions, which makes for another nightmare in itself. MoM has minimum lap time requirement for Fast Practice.

And just as Jim stated...having done 3 years of qualifying myself, as well as a couple AMA's, Qualifying is serious business!!!, and combining it with practice would get ugly for the passing of "practice riders, and who gets out on the "clear" track first..... Not a good idea IMO :roll:

[dragos13]

Good point Brownie, we would have to have two sessions for both GTO and GTU. Doing them back to back wouldn't really be fair to the racers that compete in both. Like the years in the past, qualifying will only be a thought. Guess I need to get to some other clubs.

[Throttleroller277]

MoM does them back to back, but they are two differnt sessions for GTU and GTO.

Back to back isn't much a problem, because there are only a hand full of guys that run both classes. Their isn't much need to stay out in qualifying thru the entire session, as you are just shredding more tire, and tires are best when new, as we all know. So we would go out in GTU, put 3-4 good laps in, come in and take a breather (or smoke, in my case :) ) before going back out for the GTO qualifying. 8)

[oldtimer]

I see your point Chris! I will say no more :D


Don't worry Martin you can start in the back with me, it's fun! :D

[Mforza]

Well that's my place on the grid anyway :lol: :lol:

[Scored51]

I see your point Chris! I will say no more :D

Sorry Martin for firing off like that. When I came to the MRA it seemed odd to me that there wasn't any qualifying. Then I saw how many races were being run, and how many were competing in multiple classes on different bikes. Having been involved with the race day office for a number of years now I think it would have been an impossible task to administer by hand. (Results were difficult enough!) We now have the technology to easily handle qualifying, although it is my personal belief that it will be more work for everyone (racers, vendors, and race day officials) at the track with little gains for those involved and possibly less track time for those in other classes.

That being said, do we know whether all of the RoR racers practice exclusively in expert fast practice sessions? If not, we would need to incorporate a separate qualifying session. Conversely, if qualifying time were simply lifted from morning practice (as it is run as one big practice) there would need to be a better way of tracking/policing those who ride drastically different bikes like Shannon Moham (SV650 vs. R6) on the same weekend. The organization of practice may need to be changed to displacement sessions in order to make sure the times were valid for each of the races. Obviously that is another can of worms with pros and cons.

[Racing616]

I think 20 mins is a bit long, make it 10 for each RoR race. And seriously guys, this isn't the AMA, new tires a 10 min qualifying session would be insane! Please don't think that there will be a 10K increase for that! In CCS, we ran whatever we had on in practice.